[000:00:00;00] so that ukraine does not exist, of any kind, either military, military, or due to internal stabilization, or due to exhaustion , or due to a combination of all these factors, but that we as such do not exist, because he believes that ukrainians are such sick in quotes, or wrong russians, and we belong to the sphere of russian peace and their influence in no other way. and the entire ideology of the russian regime will then collapse, if ukraine exists, and ukraine is a success story, i believe that russia can become a different country when it recognizes that ukraine itself is ukraine, and not russia or anti-russia, that ukrainians are ukrainians, not wrong russians, that we have equal status with them, we have our

right to our decision, including becoming part of the west, but we are very far from that if we start some talks about negotiations, then the question is what is the subject of these negotiations, well, of course we will talk about humanitarian matters, that is clear, but with regard to political matters, i do not see any prerequisites for this, i do not see any political, emotional, legal ones. well, whatever you want, but raise the stakes to that, to what jens is calling for is very important, we see that the west is gradually swinging, but swinging very slowly, father's story of millions of shells, it is very revealing, they really do more, but not in the way we need, and they think it is wrong

, as they need, they must learn to quickly increase production and not only for us, but also for themselves, it is both our security and other security, they must take financial and other risks in order to understand, but how in general this system works for them because they are the same not insured and not guaranteed whether the war will continue, and when we say this, a few years ago, many were smiling, now there are much less smiles, and i believe that jens, jens stoltenberg, he often says, if not in direct text, at least not diplomatically, and this is superova for gencier kanat, and in what he said in that, in the part to which you pointed, i absolutely agree with everything, mr. pavle,

explain to me if there is eat... the ukrainian authorities and our western partners understand what the victory of ukraine should be, that is, in our understanding, victory is the return of the borders of 1991 and the withdrawal of russian power completely under russian troops, beyond the borders of our state, and possibly the collapse of russia, as general budanov says, in the 25th year, processes will begin that will inevitably lead to collapse of russia. what does the victory of ukraine mean for the west and what does the defeat of russia mean? i will tell you more, mr. serhiy, even, even in the west, there is no consensus on what constitutes victory and what constitutes defeat. even among western countries, there are significant differences, our vision, you

it was painted, but i'll allow it. to supplement it. of course, the liberation of the territory, the liberation of our people, is a matter of course. but it is also critically important for us that the threat from the territory of today's russia, whatever it may be there tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. and, unfortunately, i do not have very optimistic thoughts about the fact that russia will become better in the future. that this threat was. reduced to zero, and this is a question of a security model for ukraine and security guarantees, so when we talk to our partners, one part of our conversation - this is an increase in aid to us, and of course not only military aid, since russia is counting on exhaustion and not only military aid, i think that they have already understood, although probably not everyone, that a military victory

is impossible, but to put it on a psychological, different definition , of course there will be, and it's very important to us that the west understands that in this formula that it applies, so we'll ... we'll help you as long as it takes, it should sound like, we'll help you as you need , and when we talk about security commitments from our friends and partners, this is also a critical issue, because it should not be about what they are ready to give us and when they are ready, but about what it should be... what we need and when we need it, and between this vision is also a fundamental fundamental difference, so that there is no such consensus vision even in

the middle of the west, and unfortunately there is no such full consensus vision between us and our partners, we look in the same direction, but still to a large extent we speak different languages . mr. pavle, i will also ask you about the words of general budanov, therefore that he tried to explain how long the war would last, he said that russia would not go to a peace agreement for a long time, there would be shelling, but without an intense war, at the same time, the general said that there are examples in history when wars did not end legally, for example, japan and russia, which have been formally at war since the 45th year, since it was peaceful. the status of the kuril islands was not signed, budanov says that such a scenario is very likely here as well, does it even make sense to compare history with the kuril islands islands, japan and russia, and the situation that

is now in ukraine and russia, even if there will be no hot phase of the war. i am not a fan of hysterical comparisons, of course they are useful to look at one or another... the aspect there is political or legal, the same can be compared with kashmir, with the situation between india and pakistan, there is also no final agreement, there is also there is a line where something constantly explodes, but in the last two years, as a result of the agreement, they have reduced the number of incidents to a minimum, in the 20th year, if i don't i'm wrong, there were about 400 of them there, and now there are dozens... but these are two nuclear states, it's a slightly different logic, a slightly different military logic. and when we talk about scenarios, we have to understand that for today's russian leadership, i

mean not only putin, but the russian leadership in particular and for the russian population, in principle, the understanding that ukraine is not... a separate nation, a separate state, that it should not belong to the west, these are all such things that are not accepted banally, and the fact is that when they ask me there, what will happen pavel, what do you think after putin, i tell everyone that the fundamental problem of russia is not only putin, the most fundamental problem of today's russia is the russians, it is theirs. and expect that something fundamental will get better after putin's regime there is rebooted into some kind of reality, by the way, i do not rule out that in connection with

the presidential elections next year, or after them, a process of a kind of drift of russian power will begin and will take place significant changes and in any case russians. elites understand where russia is going and will try to play a bigger role. thanks, i wouldn't expect any fundamental optimistic changes. thank you, sorry, the time of our program has come to an end, it was pavlo klinkin, former minister of foreign affairs of ukraine, diplomat and politician. during the program, we conduct a survey, we ask you whether you are ready for a long war with russia, and we will have the same survey in the second part of the program, literally in 15 minutes. don't switch, there are 15% discounts on hepargin in pharmacies, plantain, bam and savings. i flew i was flying, but a cough stopped me, a cough is a symptom of a respiratory disease, so

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incredibly comfortable shoes for only 799 uah, call espresso - interesting the facts over 10 years of existence, the portal of the espresso tv channel has been viewed more than 230 million times. in 10 years more than 575,000 news were published on the espresso tv channel portal. on november 25, 2013 , a convoy of five hundred opposition forces marched to the building of the cabinet of ministers. the protesters wanted to express. disagree with the government's decision to suspend the process of preparing for

the signing of the association agreement with the european union until the evening , the number of people on euromaidan and european square increases to several thousand. the clearing of the so-called maidan of independence from activists began around 4 o'clock in the morning. then on duty about 400 protesters remained. mostly they were students. they slept in tents. then the square was surrounded by armed fighters of the special battalion. december 8. in 2008 , a march of millions passed through the streets of the capital, continued until late at night, and on this very day, activists toppled a monument to lenin in the center of the capital on besararab square. greetings, friends, the live broadcast of telekanaluso continues. the verdict program is on the air, my name is serhiy rudenko, from now on weekdays.

a two-hour broadcast airs in the evening from 8 to 10 p.m., we talk about ukraine, the world, war, the economy, elections, corruption, all that you are interested in today, our dear tv viewers, i want to introduce today's guests of the program, this is volodymyr vyatrovych, people's deputy of ukraine, european solidarity faction, mr. volodymyr, i congratulate you, i am glad to see you on our air. good evening, yelyzaveta yasko, people's deputy of ukraine, servant of the people faction, mrs. elizaveta, i congratulate you and it's good to see you, good evening , each other, inna sovsun, people's deputy of ukraine, voice faction, ms. inna, i also congratulate you and thank you for joined our broadcast. congratulations. in the course of our program, friends, we are conducting a survey, today we are asking you about this, are you ready for a long war for russia, yes, no, if you are ready, then the phone number

for phone calls is 0800-21-381, no, 0800 211- 382, call, all calls to these numbers are free, at the end of the program we will summarize this vote , let's ladies and gentlemen, in the format of a blitz poll, we will also answer this question, are you ready for a long war with russia, ladies inno, please, and this is a difficult question, because what does it mean to be ready for a long time war, yes, and what does it mean, both from the point of view of us as individual politicians, people's deputies, and from the point of view of us as people, and, of course, that these life situations are very different for different people, yes, there are those those who now have close relatives in the war, there are those who have close relatives at home, yes, i fall into the category of those who have a loved one at the front since the first day

of the war, and of course, for me it is a question of the duration of the war, it is also a question how long i can't spend time with my beloved. including a person, as well as for hundreds thousands of other women and men who have loved ones at the front, so of course, morally and let's say so, i understand with my mind that this war will be long, but i also understand that we need to find a balance in society, how to evenly distribute the burden of this war between different people, so that this burden does not fall on the same people, as it unfortunately happens today, so yes, i am ready in terms of what i understand that the probability that it will be short, it is close to, let's say, she's very low, here, but i also understand that just saying yes, i'm ready, well, it 's not really that easy, given my circumstances, including personal circumstances, thank you ms.

inna, ms. elizaveta, are you ready to a long war with russia, you know, it seems to me that no ukrainian will actually be able to answer: to the question that he is emotionally ready, but we all understand that we have no other way out, both politically and to speak, in military language, we must be ready for all 100, for all thousands, as long as it takes, in order for us to finally finish russia's aggression against ukraine, we understand it, but to say that any of us is ready to live with the tragedies of our people every day, i am sure that no one, but we must understand that this is a historical path that we are currently walking, so we must politically and

militarily, to do everything so that this would be the last war, where we would no longer need to prove to the world that ukrainians exist and that we will not really need to defend ourselves from russia, because russia will simply respect our borders in the future and our people, so we do it for the future, thank you, thank you, mr. volodymyr, i agree with the previous speakers, it is difficult to talk about some kind of perfection here, it is ready, it is more like a process here, you have to prepare, you have to constantly prepare, but at the same time, you know, it seems to me that we as a society are now giving up from one extreme to another, from the extreme of extremely optimistic about two or three weeks, now more and more often there are heard some colossal numbers about 10 years and so on, well, i don't know, as a historian i can say that war is such an unpredictable process , that any exact forecasts, whether two or two or three weeks, or 10 years, they are simply useless, they

are not really able to form the dates of any accurate forecast, so let's not be overly... optimistic, not indulge in excessive pessimism, but prepare to the marathon is always, always better than to crash in the first few kilometers. without any doubt, i agree with absolutely everyone and also believe that if there is this marathon, one must always be ready for this marathon and this matter is not a foreseeable war, and even more so, when it ends, too a big question, ladies and gentlemen, i wanted to ask you about today's event , because it went beyond lviv and the lviv polytechnic, because the students came out to protest against iryna farion, who spoke incorrectly to the servicemen regarding language, and she continues to speak out, and

this story grows another scandals, another stories, and already the fighters are responding, irina farion and her support came from the occupied, annexed crimea, and she made public the correspondence of the student who supported her, now it seems that this student, the fsb is pursuing what the students got up to with the slogans farion away, because she teaches at the lviv polytechnic there, there are no former communists, and iryna farion is dishonoring ukraine, it is clear that this is not something local. phenomenon and this is not a local story that takes place in the city of lviv, this is a story that takes place on the territory of ukraine, because the discussion immediately... includes large segments of the audience and the russian federation is already taking advantage of

all this. mr. volodymyr, to you as a historian, as a person who understands historical, importance, peace, including, in the time of war, or let's say, silence in the time of war, what do you say about this scandal that is just gathering momentum before our eyes and what this scandal can lead to? i am very sad that this scandal, as you said, is not local, it seems to me that it does not deserve any extraordinary attention, despite my very skeptical thoughts about the behavior of ms. iryna, iryna parion, i just try not to comment on it, because i convinced that this kind of scandals are fueled by excessive interest, some excessive emotions, and is it this and is it? is not an end in itself for mrs. iryna, the only thing i want to say is that i cannot forget that mrs. iryna farion

was one of the staunch critics of our law on the ukrainian language, the functional ukrainian language as the state language, she believed that it would never work. that we made some unacceptable compromises, that we will kill the language, so i am not ready to say that mrs. iryna is really some kind of defender of the ukrainian language, it seems to me that her goal is not... protection of the ukrainian language, in the end that's all - still, that its goal is actually itself a scandal in itself. mrs. inna, you once headed the ministry of education, you were, you were one with the head of the ministry of education, please tell me what the students are doing now and demanding, to deprive them of teaching, irina farion, eh, i, how does it correspond, well, with student democracy and with the fact that people came with placards and slogans, they started protesting, and this reminds me very

much of the protest actions of the 1990s, in which i took part, but there was a completely different situation, we protested against the communists masola, i against the communist party, here again the slogan is that there are no former communists , that irina farion is gone, how do you feel about this scandal, and how do you think it will affect public opinion, especially those people who learn the language or do not have a perfect command of the language, or will it somehow contribute to the fact that they will master the language and come to ukrainianness not through gentle ukrainization, but well, the first comment, a comment about the actual rights of students, well, to be honest, students who in their lives not protested, but probably did not live a full-fledged student life, it seems to me that this is an absolutely normal , usual, let's say, element of student education,

growing up, obtaining basic, i don't know civic competences, and i was on the maidan in 2004, i was a student, in on the 13th and 14th, i was already there as a teacher, here, but my students were already there then, i absolutely support the right of students to express their position, especially when it comes to matters that directly concern their university, yes , they may not know the whole story, they may not know the legislation, but they must have the opportunity, the space, the right to express their position, and well, including their political position, their ethical position in one or another statement, a person who is involved in of the university, yes, so from the point of view of the legislation there and the basic principles of how the university should function, this is just normal, the next question, actually, is to what extent... their demands can be satisfied, here is the answer to this question, it more complicated, and here before giving a broader answer to it, i will say something from my

teaching practice, i have been teaching for more than 10 years, i have been teaching in two universities and all the time i have been teaching, being, or when i was in the ministry of education and science in the position of the first deputy, or for four years now, i am a people's deputy, all my students can confirm this, i come for a couple, i teach aviation disciplines related to political science, i come for a couple and say: "friends, you understand that i have, in addition to the teaching job, another job that is available to me basically, i never confuse them, which is why even though we teach disciplines that deal with politics, i will not comment on the current political situation in pairs, because otherwise it would violate some basic principles of academic integrity on my part, and that it would just be dishonest of me, even though the students ask me to comment on something, i say no, i can't do that in the classroom, it's wrong, and i continue to follow that principle. now, returning to

the question of iryna farion, it seems to me that. the question that the university administration should legitimately ask is what ms. iryna farion says in her classes, and , of course, that her statements are public, they are unlikely to comment on them, and they are unlikely to take any administrative actions, whatever dismissal or suspension from teaching, or any other means of influence, because of her public political activity, yes, but in the event that this political activity takes place within the walls of the university, if the university chair is used in order to promote certain views , and especially views that show contempt for the military, then this is already a reason for the university to intervene, yes, and here , what saddens me, perhaps the most in this story, is absolutely, let's put it this way, silence on the part of the university management, which seems to me to be trying to sit on two

bodies, so it is trying to find a third party, some kind of solution, and there is no simple solution here, because, in fact, this decision is within the university's autonomy , and autonomy is not only the right to manage money independently, it also includes making decisions about who is worthy to teach at the university and who is not worthy, not on the basis of some legislative norms, on the basis of the principles on which the university is built, here here it seems to me that there is an excellent reason to manifest itself in university autonomy, which we wrote down 10 years ago: there were laws of ukraine thanks to the revolution, students told. thank you ms. inna, ms. elizaveta, it is clear that the ukrainian language must be protected, it is clear that the state language should be a priority in the state of ukraine, especially during the russo-ukrainian war. we understand that our children and grandchildren will obviously know

the ukrainian language much better than we will speak this language, but there are people who... due to various reasons, including due to russification, which has been going on for a very long time was in ukraine , well, they don’t speak ukrainian well, or let’s say, they try to speak ukrainian, they don’t succeed, especially those who got to the front, they don’t always speak ukrainian, someone speaks ukrainian, someone speaks russian, in your opinion, can a philologist who also considers herself a politician, iryna faryuon, ask this question to those who... are at the front, or, is it correct, when a person who is not , does not manage the troops, a person who is not in touch with the front, can criticize and talk about who is a real ukrainian, who, who is not? you know, actually, what 's going on in the discussion right now, with the farion issue

and all that, actually reminds me of some kind of provocation that's... designed to to show her on russian telegram channels, on russian television, to show how everyone is quarreling, how, allegedly, there is such a person as varion, here is what she said, and about students and about crimea and about the military, it seems to me that in our ukrainian context, this is a little exaggerated, to put it mildly, it is definitely not necessary to pay so much attention to this one case, but what is necessary, that what we see is in essence, and i really congratulate that students are really coming out and showing their position, protests , this is the purification of our society from different narratives, provocations, which we all really need, and this is happening quite actively, and i welcome it, i liked

what you said now about our ukrainian state language. you know, i very often at such an everyday level worry about such a question, because i am also a mother, i speak to my child in ukrainian, although i can speak both russian and ukrainian, looking at who speaks which languages, without problems, but i will never show my child a cartoon in russian, we recently, by the way, i took part in a discussion with volodymyr yaatrovych, where we talked about this, that it is very interesting that a lot of ukrainian-speaking parents, and those who have been ukrainian-speaking since childhood, and who have recently become fully ukrainian-speaking, for some reason do not see, or believe , using cultural products that are created, for example, in russia, there is masha and the bear and all that,