glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhii rudenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health. from now on, the verdict will be released every weekday in a two-hour format from 8:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. we talk about ukraine, the world, the war, victory, and what interests you, our dear viewers, today in the program. summit. antipodes, the meeting between biden and xi jinping, will there be changes for ukraine and the world? russian spies in the highest sabers of the ukrainian government, which punishment do traitors deserve. winter will not put the war on pause, which will take place at the front in the coming months. we talk about this and other things during the next hour with our guests. with people's deputy of ukraine iryna

herashchenko, sbu general viktor yagun and diplomat oleksandr khara. so, before we start our big broadcast, i suggest you watch how the monument to alexander pushkin was removed in kyiv today, and it happened on beresteysky prospect. activists demanded to remove the monument for more than a year, but literally on november 10, mink. removed the monument from the registers of monuments and architectural monuments and allowed to remove the monument to the russian poet in this way, let's see how it all turned out.

come on, friends, for those who are currently watching us live on youtube and facebook, i will. please like this video, subscribe to our pages on these platforms and take part in our vote, today we ask you about whether ukraine needs a single telethon, vote on youtube, vote by phone lines, you see phone numbers on the screens, by calling which you can vote, all calls to these the numbers are free, if you think ukraine needs a single telethon, call 0802 381, if not,

0800 211-382. iryna herashchenko, people's deputy of ukraine, co-chair of the european solidarity faction, is in touch with us. ms. irina, i congratulate you and i am glad to see you. good evening to all viewers of espresso. well, since we are not in a single telethon, we can afford to ask our viewers if ukraine needs a single telethon. i will take this opportunity. and you will be asked whether ukraine needs a single one telethon? and you know, if you take into account that almost 2 billion uah go to a single telethon from the budget, a very modest, deeply deficit ukrainian budget, and they do not go to public broadcasting, to oligarchic channels, to 1+1, which still belongs to kolomoskyi and medvedchuk, on the pluses, which were completely dug up by firtage, on other oligarchic channels,

i think the question is obvious, today, when there are no funds in the budget to index teachers' salaries to the social sphere, when we cannot simply provide everything necessary to the ukrainian military, and there is a shortage of drones and thermal imagers and other important equipment today at the front, i think these are priorities, this is the first, the second, as a professional journalist, i , like you, mr. serhiu, support the issue and understand the need for military censorship, that security issues should still be covered by us, taking into account the challenges of wartime, but excuse me, you and i have now returned to the times of yanukovych, when we have political censorship, when there have been no whole factions, opposition politicians in the marathon for two years, there are essentially and there is no military but there from morning to evening.

the president's office, and actually, i don't think that these are such needs today that, from our budget , from taxpayers' funds, from taxes, including the military, we have political segregation, black lists, political censorship, this is it is unacceptable, i think that definitely, the marathon today is a great evil that gives false information, it increases manipulation, deforms public opinion, and builds a totalitarian state in ukraine. regarding military censorship, regarding what is said in the only telethon and what they don't say and what they say, what the political leadership of ukraine doesn't say, information appeared from activists of the book of remembrance of the fallen for ukraine community, who processed almost all data from open sources about the dead ukrainian soldiers since the beginning of the full-scale invasion and they came to the conclusion that

at least 30,000 ukrainian defenders died in the war, and what these statistics say is that 20... 4,500 confirmed dead whose names are known. 15,000 missing is a big enough number, and 3,400 prisoners earlier, the times claimed that about 1,000 people died on the ukrainian side. the economist on november 13 called the figure 70,000 killed and up to 120,000 wounded. here you are on the diagram. but of the dead by day, when the biggest attacks took place, on february 24, when the great war began, 203 people died, on march 18 of the same year, 193, and so on, why do you think, ms. irina,

despite everything, in our society and in the political leadership, there is no conversation about the number of dead, about 15 thousand about the missing and probably they will either be found or not, why do we constantly hear manipulations with these numbers, why can't we start a normal conversation with society, because the shock from the war, from the first days of the war has passed and has already passed, one year and nine months, it is already time to start talking seriously with people about the present and the future, and you know, just last week we had such a difficult conversation at a closed working meeting on the issues of military payments, military mobilization, and so on, and of course we raised such warehouse,

where was the leadership of the faction and here is the question of the need for a serious conversation with society, i agree with you that if the government has already left, well, after these... victorious relations and such a victory in the marathon that coffee is there in crimea, tomorrow, uh, or about a month from now, society needs to speak very honestly, secondly, it is obvious that today most ukrainian families already have acquaintances, friends, relatives, colleagues who went to war, who died in war, who may be in captivity , who have gone missing, and especially for the families of the dead or missing persons, this kind of silence is very sensitive, and the authorities explain that at the beginning of the war they were afraid that the numbers there could traumatize the society, frighten the society, but it seems to me that today, on the contrary,

it is frightening when they are silent about it, and that is why i also stand on the position that we need honest information, we need to understand the number of our... losses, victims, because this, this is the price for the existence of ukraine, and in fact, these numbers, behind each of them there is a destiny, a specific family, a specific tragedy, and for families it is important, and for ukrainians to realize what the price is, because really, i am very afraid , you know, so that it does not happen, as in 14-15 years, when the forces of ukraine held the defense, protecting ukrainian independence in the east, and a large part of the country did not even realize, if there were no relatives, friends or acquaintances who fought there, that a war was going on, and now we still have to understand

the gravity of this war and the fact that the numbers of casualties are important for society and from the point of view of awareness that everyone's contribution should be the future victory. well, that would save it the russians' ability to manipulate this, because if you listen to putin's jokes there, then they are. 20 or 30,000 ukrainians are killed every month, and the amount of equipment they destroyed is also estimated to be in the tens of thousands, of course they manipulate, of course they, i will draw another parallel here, it is obvious that from the point of view of russian propaganda here, they they include their informational and propaganda special operations here in order to scare and manipulate ukrainians there, how much equipment is destroyed, how much is killed

ukrainians, but it seems to me that we should also show here that ukraine is not russia in its attitude to our dead, russia does not make public the number of its dead, it is all such a secret there, there is generally such a very easy attitude to human life, ukraine is different from russia, that for us the lives of our soldiers are valuable, as well as the previous government. and the current government is fighting for hostages, yes, i know that it is a very difficult process, indeed, the release of captives, and it seems to me that here we should also speak more actively, not to forget the fact that we have more than one and a half azov captives, there are other captives, we need to talk about it , it is very important for families, and here ukraine must not be russia, numbers, surnames of heroes, stories of fallen heroes, this what should distinguish us from russia, pay attention, in israel , on the contrary, every day they talk about

the dead, both civilians and military, and their stories are called numbers, this unites the country, this grief, this tragedy, these victims, this such losses are common, they unite the country, i am convinced that our losses unite us, because these, these are the people who were supposed to build the future ukraine, they were supposed to make a great contribution to ukraine, modern, european, and they made this greatest contribution, we simply do not have the right, you know, not to mention, not to name, not to realize the scale . yes, it is necessary for memory, it is necessary as a tribute to these people who died for our ukraine and for our independence and freedom, today mrs. ireno from... zelensky met with african journalists. there was a report that during a meeting with african journalists

the president of ukraine stated that he is against the frozen war, it must be ended - the president said what zelensky said, i will quote. if it's a stalemate and a frozen conflict, we have to honestly say that our children will fight, or our grandchildren will fight, we've already lost a lot of people, we want to live like this, knowing that we... we have children who will definitely will fight, a question mark, a stalemate is a temporary weakness, if we want to end the war, we must end it, on conviction the president, this ending may be different, but it is necessary and evil must suffer , zelskyi explained that by the end of the war, he understands the situation when russia will begin to respect the territorial integrity and the un charter and will withdraw its troops from the territory of ukraine, what does this mean .

this means that some kind of peace talks in some formats can take place there, on two sites , about this, well, that is, it is not about the fact that when we defeat russia, and when it withdraws its troops from the territory, it will start to respect our territorial integrity and the un charter, is it not about the fact that some format of possible peace talks can be between ukraine and russia. with the mediation of some structures there are the un, nato, western states and at two separate tables, where will ukraine be with mediators and russia with mediators, as it was during the agreements regarding the grain corridor? i am very glad that the president meets with african journalists and realizes that we need to work with this continent, because russia traditionally has such a large influence there. and it is obvious that ukraine aspires, well, to convey certain messages to this audience, including that it is possible to change

positions there during the voting of these countries and so on. the only thing is that i do not understand why the president of ukraine does not meet with ukrainian journalists, a meeting with natalka mosiychuk is a meeting with a propagandist, this is not journalism, and it seems to me that ukrainian journalists, who represent the media, ukrainian society, well, they definitely deserve such a meeting, a conversation, the parliament itself deserved it even more, for example, because i am convinced that now ukraine is facing such serious challenges, knowing the situation there. economy and the situation in the social sphere and the situation at the front, it seems to me that this requires a serious conversation by the president with parliamentarians, and with his faction, with other factions, because sooner or later, well, there will be no other way out than to look together , you know, the answers to these questions , including what victory is, i would like

the president to present to the parliament his vision of what victory is for him, it is obvious that russia will never respect charter, this is just an axiom, because russia tramples everything that is at the basis of the un, starting from human rights, ending with respect for the territorial integrity and borders of an independent country. and in this context, it seems to me that we need to realize that russia really only understands the language of force, can ukraine today only use the force of its army to pressure russia, i think that russia, unfortunately, has no more, much more, and mobilization opportunities, both economic and military, moreover, russia was rebuilding itself on military rails, during this time, it has already built its own factories for the production of drones there, and we see that it also has projectiles left, yes,

those that are in short supply in ukraine, they are a loss to it, and in fact, all these are very serious... challenges , which are in front of ukraine, so how can we concentrate our strength there, yes, in order to push russia out, this is an issue that may not need to be discussed live, but very seriously, including with the parliament. second, it is obvious to me that we have to put pressure on russia all over the world, in this context it is good that it is interviews with african journalists and we somehow try to expand our support in the world, but we need to strengthen sanctions by the united states and the european union, because russia has learned to circumvent them, today there is a good signal from brussels, where the 12th package was adopted sanctions, there are restrictions on the russian export of diamonds, there are restrictions on oil, on certain companies

that are engaged in dual-use goods there, and according to the calculations of experts, this package can hit the economy of russia by 5 billion, but it is not fatal for the russian economy, and that's why it seems to me that we need to focus together on such very realistic scenarios, how to strengthen our diplomacy, so that the pressure on russia, the world, becomes so destructive that it does not have the resources for war, this is very important, the second is for me. it is clear that ukraine's membership in the eu and nato will be a part of our victory, and this will help us, in any format, further, to realize our key goal of restoring ukraine in the territory within the borders of our 91st year, for me this is a part our

victory, which the authorities, possessing the entire mass of information, still see now, in that...' at the front, i don't know that, and i don't want to discuss these topics so easily, because it would be dilettantism, but i , too, would like the president to find time to talk with ukrainian journalists and ukrainian politicians, deputies, because it is important. thank you, ms. iryna, this was iryna herashchenko, people's deputy of ukraine, co-chair of the european solidarity faction in the verkhovna rada of ukraine. friends, we work in live on telekanaluso, as well as on our youtube platforms. and on facebook, for those who are currently watching us live on youtube, you can like this video, like this video, subscribe to our youtube page, and take part in our vote, today we ask you about such as whether ukraine needs a single telethon, you can vote

both on the youtube page and live, you can now see the phone numbers on the screen, now i will remind you of them, if you think that ukraine needs a single telethon, call 0800 211-381, no, 0800 211-382. at the end of the program, we will sum up the results of this vote, i hope that you get full information about what our telethons think about the single telethon, then we will be in touch, viktor yagun, major general of the security service of ukraine in zapasi, former deputy head of the security service. of ukraine. mr. general, i congratulate you and i am glad to see you on our air. mr. general, let's talk about the russians

moles in power, because this week, it is so rich in events, precisely because of the detection and announcement of suspicions of treason, in particular , the second people's deputy of ukraine in the last two months, is suspected of... treason oleksandr dubinsky on november 14 sat down to prison for 60 days, the court believes that he must be in prison, but before that, the security service of ukraine said that since 2016 he worked for the main intelligence department of the ministry of defense of the russian federation, had the call sign buratino and worked for russian special forces ' service, is it possible

to assume, mr. general, that the sbbu had known for a long time that dubinsky was working for the russians, that is, it did not become known this year or thereabouts, even before dubinsky came to the verkhovna rada of ukraine, that for a certain long time, he was and now they just announced that he is suspected of treason, because if it is not... then it is not clear why he worked for the russians for so long six years, and no one knew about it and this information was not made public, well, look, in our country , after all, the political system was dynamically changing the situation, and her person was there when certain processes were involved, i think that the information that this group... worked was, er, about its personal composition, i think that it was not known, but behind them,

they were being monitored, and i have already told other journalists that the very act of documenting and uh, maintaining in court, uh, the process when a person is accused of treason, is so difficult, so complicated, so difficult process, because clear evidence of contact and work against the enemy is needed, except under suspicion, because it is possible just well, not to achieve something there, not to succeed in court, the derkacha group was known, starting, of course, from the 16th year, when they showed themselves and for her, for her, the observation, especially of the derkacha, was quite active , the fact that other people

entered there, well, it was clear, even after when a person was included, included in the sanctions lists of the united states, even then it was necessary to pay attention to it and, well, if not to document, then to the extreme check, more carefully, all those contacts and, and activity, i think that information it was primary and they simply came to the result, somewhere not recently and therefore implemented this information, as it was implemented. i will remind you that on january 11, 2021, the americans put derkach and dubinsky on the sanctions list, and i will remind you that this was related to those accusations or those tapes or pseudo-tapes that andrii derkach and oleksandr dubinsky made public at the press conference in 2020, it was about a conversation between biden and poroshenko, and

biden was then a presidential candidate, and it was about biden's son hunter, who was involved in the burizma company in ukraine, well, in a word, this is an old story, and considering the fact that in the last two months, two deputies received such suspicions, of course, an investigation is ahead, a court is ahead, and a verdict is ahead, the court verdict, mr. general, what do you think, given that state traitors turn out to be people who are involved in state secrets, in the state service at the highest level, should it not be necessary in the conditions of a great war to initiate an examination of people who are at authorities, and conduct them or through a polygraph, is it possible that there are other

procedures to understand... how many of these russian moles are in the ukrainian government? well, in fact, i support such a proposal, because it is necessary to really thoroughly check people, especially new ones, the practice of checking people through a polygraph for new, well, when appointing new positions in the special services of ukraine has long been introduced, that is, in fact... in fact, employees of the special services, employees of law enforcement agencies, high-ranking officials in the armed forces of ukraine, they undergo such a check, and i think that it is necessary to at the legislative level to make an indisputable decision regarding the conduct of such a check on deputies of all levels and upon appointment to certain public positions, and even upon

admission to... civil service, there is nothing so extraordinary about it, in fact it is a war, and it is necessary determine how to conduct an inspection, how to prove this or that guilt , unfortunately, we do not have the very concept of inspection legally enshrined in the legislation, it has such an auxiliary character, and only in some departments it is introduced, respectively in the instruction that if a person does not pass the check, then he is not appointed to the position, so i think that this can be implemented exclusively at the legislative level and it should be done as soon as possible, and the fact that the special services are working and discovering agents of the russian federation, including among, uh, those structures that are close to the government , well, that's positive, that is, we don't have any reservations there, to which political... structure this

or that person belongs, and this, this, this is pleasing mr. general, do you support the idea of ​​checking not only candidates for high positions, but also whether their wives, their daughters, their relatives have russian passports, why am i asking this, because on october 27 , bigusinfo published an investigation in which it is said that the wife and mother-in-law of the deputy head of the national police of ukraine. colonel dmytro tyshlyk has russian passports, the head of the national police says that no one knew that his wife and mother-in-law have russian passports, they had no way to check this, because they do not have a database that the russian federation has, and that goes official investigation, a person temporarily suspended from office

, such connections, family connections with, where family members have a russian passport, and in one way or another may, may be somehow connected with russia, as far as it harms the public service , national interests and national security, well, in fact, it should be checked during a special inspection, a special inspection is carried out by the security service of ukraine during the granting of access to a permit to work with state secrets, and here the question is whether the security service carried out such an inspection, or, well, if a person simply performed duties without access, and to state secrets , well, that's one question, and if such a special check was carried out and it was not incomplete, well , then the question is for those who carried out this special check, such a check should

be carried out on duty mandatory. for all civil servants who are appointed to this or that position with access to state secrets, so i think that i fully agree that this is precisely the moment of definition, this is one of the elements of the possibility of putting pressure on the person who, er, occupies this or that position, this by the way, this is not the first scandal of this level, we already had people in the security service and in the foreign intelligence service. who had passports, well, there was a suspicion that one of their close relatives had such documents, so this is one of the factors that should definitely be denied, the appointment to a position, you mentioned officials, or at least security service employees,