[000:00:00;00] and we will do, unfortunately, not popular, thank you very much, thank you very much, thank you very much, oleksiy hetman, a reserve major of the national guard, a veteran of the russian-ukrainian wars, was in touch with us, and now, if they tell me that oleg sahakyan is , then i will talk to him, so they tell me that oleg saakhyan, a political scientist , the head of the united coordination center platform, is in touch with us, thank you, mr. oleg, for finding time for us, thank you very much, i have a first question. which i didn't know about before i came to work, i just don't i followed, contrary to my usual habits, i did not follow russian news after russia, and the editors told me that the methodology in the russian mass media had changed, and these mass media, well, such propaganda media, began to complain about china,

saying that china... not like this, here we thought that this is so-so, he is almost so-so, like the united states, the question is, what is this, what would this mean, as used to be in the humorous magazines of the soviet era, such, such, means , such, such, such slogan was, what do you think about this, is this such a case, or this mistake, or is it true, they started something, they learned something after xi jinping's talks with us president biden. why is china suddenly the same enemy, i am quoting, as the united states, what with the methods, the rim went down on the bolooto, on sidzempin, well , look, sidzempin's meeting with biden, to which, in fact, china was given a nod, they did not object to his thesis regarding two countries that have an exclusive role for the future of the world,

respectively, a kind of bipolarity. what they said in moscow, a multipolar world where no one should decide, dictate, and in the end china completely agrees to be a bipolar world, it is clear that classic bipolarity is now impossible, but nevertheless china would like to receive this confirmation, sizzempin needs it both internally and externally, secondly, what about russia in general, as it turns out , that nothing was said about russia, that is, russia is not participating, about russia... and they are not talking about it, but it is clear that the rules of the game that are defined will affect russia. and the third point, if china is recognized, secretly or publicly, but not articulated, by the united states, as an alternative pole, as the leader of an undemocratic world, then this implies certain responsibilities of china, then already turning to china to apply its unique influences

on moscow for change. positions, become not wishes and appeals, but become the direct responsibility of china, and the modality changes to another, and what is going on with you there, and you cannot put this boltos in place, then what kind of world pole are you, then what kind of leadership can we talk about , if you are in order in your backyard, in yours there dictatorships aimed at you cannot be cited, and in moscow it is perfectly understood that sydzimpin was given a label to: bet, excuse me, stand up to moscow, it is clear that in russia this stresses both the elites and the population, in which anti-chinese sentiment is enough serious, so when some of my colleagues say that moscow is completely dependent on beijing, to be honest, i do not agree with this, well, not for that, my mother grew a flower, putin did not create his regime for sidzimpin, and the russian elites do not have

philo-chinese bright ones. moods on the contrary, the threats from china are much more serious for them than from the united states. with the united states, it is easy to elapse through the ocean and tell, ai-yay-yai, as they will show them, and china, it is here near and in the whole time eats some of the sovereign moscow. therefore, in moscow now, both from the point of view of fears and attitudes in russian society, and from the point of view of the geopolitical situation, they are trying to demonstrate that they are not, that they are a subject and they have not fallen under china. mr. olezh, mr. olezh, i'm sorry, eh, but then, why? russia remains, what is moscow left with, if they quarrel with beijing now, it is very difficult to build a structure , at least to build one even in your head, well, okay, north korea, cuba and iran, well, this is not serious, it is not

strength, it is not that which should somehow be taken into account, no one will pay attention to it, because iran is not so strong, north korea is not so strong, i even sometimes have the impression, i apologize for taking a lot of time, that this is america. he specifically leaves, well, so that there is someone to fight with, so that hollywood has something to film about shoot, because if there is no north korea, there will be no moscow, there will be no iran, there will be no cuba , then who is james bond at war with, hello, what is james bond doing in this world, well conditional, then what is the calculation of moscow then? no, well, they are counting on this club of sad and uninventive, and the ikhvar international , and it is clear that china is trying to distance itself and say that we are the leader of this world, but all these expenses are related and we do not take the risks with these adventures, we are for peace in the whole world, and it is clear that the opposite is the case in china

nailed to this, in moscow they count on the fact that they will be able to rush in and try to sell problems. nuclear issues and raising the stakes by moscow, the deployment of nuclear weapons in belarus. constants, withdrawing from agreements, this is not so much a game of muscles before the west, it is as much a game of muscles with beijing, because for china this topic is much more painful than for the west, and china does not want to gain just like that, china is a big, powerful country, and their army potential is serious, you can joke that their army is 2 million there, 5 million here send, and another 15 styles will come, but let's remember who are the neighbors of china, india. more demographically and in terms of military potential, it is also not much inferior to beijing, taking into account the presence of nuclear weapons. this is south korea - a technologically and militarily developed country, japan is also not a dwarf far away, accordingly

, china's neighbors are appropriate for its size and challenges. therefore, china now does not want an arms race, it wants to take a half step back, especially not to lose its well-being, which is directly related to european and american markets. it is important for them to have access there as well, that is why china is interested in civilized competition and rivalry on certain issues, but not jumping to conflict, and russia trades with china, in particular, that okay, or we are part of the solution for you, resources, political, other solutions, or if you are not ready to pay for it the way we want, with weapons, help in victory, etc., then we will sell you problems, we will create problems on behalf of this bavarian and beat you because this will undermine yours position, and therefore in moscow, i think that they are hoping for exactly such an approach, which they used before this event there, recently in the east and with china, they will

actively apply it, this is an obezhenka who will trade problems, but this, mr. oleg, this is a defense, not an attack, that is, a position, what you have drawn now about moscow does not mean that moscow’s agenda is moscow’s, one way or another it adapts to an agenda that it does not produce, and it stands in defense, yes, well, if you don't like us so much, we will create a problem for you, but she doesn't manage the process, she doesn't say, she's not even on par, she's lower , she, she's like that, we'll hurt, like that, here we are, i 'll hurt, not because i can change you...' ohti , not because you are dependent on me, not because i am equal to you, i will do you some small, nasty things, but what is left for them, look, demographically russia is weak, but disproportionate, economically, gdp, at

the level of spain, even lower , that is, russia is far from the leader in terms of economy, not a leader in terms of living standards, and in terms of innovation, well, skolkov is an anecdote, not a valley of innovation, according to all parameters, russia loses not even to the leaders, but to such a solid middle class, the only thing they had left was brute force, because of this they went on the offensive and are trying to destabilize the world, the world order in order to brute force became the key criterion, and here one of the worst possible situations happened for russia, well, first of all, going to wet their feet in the channel, they met buchuya and other ukrainian cities on the way and did not reach quite a bit, but apart from that, they ... power happened, they showed that, in fact, a cockroach nest is far from a cockroach nest, and now even this superpower of theirs has blown away, russia today is not a global state, it is a regional state with the presence of nuclear weapons, simply disproportionate to its weight

in everything else, well, it's like that, but north korea is on steroids, nothing more, and in this position they have nothing to show leadership, they have absolutely none in any of the planes. no cards in hand. the only thing they can do now is to detonate the tension points different in the world and pray that the world will quickly go to global war. in which russian federation there will be some opportunities to exist and capitalize on it to jump out in some modalities. if the world does not fall apart and we do not go into a mode of global war and destabilization in various parts of the world, then russia has lost from the start. china understands this perfectly, and all the other players understand it perfectly, so russia is about yesterday. mr. oleg, now let's go to russia, but what is happening inside russia? you just know when i hear it, and i hear it. well first of all, what we have already said, sino-russian relations somehow

went into a strange, strange plane, but i still hear very often today that russia is united as strong as never before, and i remember well when medvedchuk said , kuchma and yanukovych are stronger than ever, and yushchenko will lose in exactly six months. yushchenko won, but now, when i hear from someone that someone is strong... like never before, or something strong like never before, i immediately have there are suspicions that something in that princely town will not pronounce this word, they will close my program and the whole world, but elections are going on, there are very persistent rumors about putin's serious illness, and you and i know that despite the laughter that all this causes, if you, if it is only bitter, if you say honey 700 times, then there will be no salt in your mouth, state .

if you say 700 times, if you say 700 times that putin is dead , then he will die, this has happened in the history of mankind, but there are a lot of problems, we say, we have a problem with mobilization, and they have a problem with mobilization , we say we have an ammo problem and they do, they don't where to take from, and not ugly at the front, in short, as much as we can talk about black swans today, well, this is desirable for all ukrainians. but is it true that something might be amiss in the russian system? we can talk about them, we can analyze and not without reason, but i would not hope for it and make a bet, because both black and white swans can appear, and something can strengthen the regime, something can destabilize it, on the contrary , now the regime is fragile, and accordingly, some black swan can start destructive processes, well, you see prigozhin access, dagestan has now been seen.

all this demonstrates the weaknesses of the regime both at the stage that they allowed it and how they reacted , so really the economic situation in russia is far from as wonderful as they try to paint in their numbers and keep a good mine, and now their task is simply to adhere to their own elections with a show of force, then let the situation down a bit, but in order to reach the american ones, they have hopes that maybe some window of opportunity will open for them, but in reality the regime is rotten and that's all everyone understands very well that, well, after all, your phrase that when they talk about strength, something immediately seems wrong, because then they try to convince that the strong, and when the strong does not need to be convinced, it means that they are worried , and about putin's death with fsb technology launched in order to give him metaphorical immortality , when wolves, wolves wolves and when... come , no one believes anymore, they perfectly understand that there are reasons to

worry about health putin will increase, and the russian population is real he is afraid and thinks, but what will happen when the tsar-batyushka does not stand up, this is a tragedy, there is already a cult of personality, and what will happen to russia, and how to live on, it is not known, and they play this card of putin's death in order to so that when something happens, everyone will say, well, stop, we haven't buried the past yet, he died again, and what on... very much, thank you, thank you, yes, well yes, there is logic in your words, as always, oleg sahakyan , political scientist, head of the single coordination center platform, was in touch with us, i will tell you a short story, and in the soviet union, when stalin was dying, my father was young, he told me, and there was such a panic that something had to be done , how are we without stalin, what without stalin, and he wanted to go to moscow, thank god that he didn’t went, then i wouldn’t be sitting here, because there they suppressed, crushed a bunch of people, a bunch

of thousands of people, and he was such a one, vasyl shubravskyi, such a scientist, a ukrainian nationalist, very hidden, because at that time it was not even possible to utter such words , walked with him until the morning and persuaded and told that such a stalin and father did not go, so that the soviets and after that the russian scheme, when without superiors, we all die, automatically, it is quite natural for russians. it is natural for ukrainians to watch commercials from time to time in order to earn money to keep television working, so now there will be commercials, 4-5 minutes, then, israeli political scientist, public we often see him, mykhailo pelivert, but anyway, first commercials. no, it's an error, there are no ads, i don't know,

just why, let's wait, technology. and you see, they tell me that there will be no advertising, that's great, now what will happen, mykhailo is gone, there is no advertising, so, who should be responsible for everything, me, that’s right, you said absolutely right , that’s why it’s interesting that inside russia, if we continue our conversation with mr. oleg, it’s interesting exactly what you understand, it’s all so fragile, it’s all so on the threads of such... is tied, and you absolutely cannot understand how it lives in general and only a miracle, in russia, in principle, they are partially right, because they very often hope for a miracle and they often get this miracle helps, because any other normal country in the state in

which russia is now, it is already somehow 100% would have already cracked somewhere, there is no such thing in russia , it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work, where people have to go out, russians don’t go out, where you can say flatteringly to the russians, let’s do this, they don’t do that, on the contrary everyone is arrested, and in short, if you look at the norm and not the norm, you will understand that the norm in russia is not the norm for the rest of the world, and for any, i am not talking about europeans, i am not talking about the so-called civilized world , and i'm talking about any world. because even totalitarian authoritarian regimes asian, they are understood, they are, well, north korea or turkmenistan, they are understood, you understand how it works, you understand from the beginning, you understand, and when you look at moscow, the first impression is that you

do not understand, how it works, then you begin to understand what it is, that it is a mongol-tatar horde, and when you put it in your head, then, yes, then it somehow begins to radiate and begins to be understood, so mykhailo pelivert, israeli political scientist, public figure , we are in touch now, yes, hello, mykhail, thank you for finding sunday time for us, people from israel made comments to me yesterday, i said, shalom shabbat, and they told me that the stars had already appeared in the sky, which means... shabbat is over, so now i , now i am more enlightened, well, look at what is happening in the gas sector, it is impossible to understand anything, well, they have surrounded the hospital, under the hospital, there are a lot of people, and

some teams, the west says, let's go, let's make a humanitarian pause , hamas says, let's exchange, and so on humanitarian pause, israel says: no, there are no humanitarian pauses, because we know how any humanitarian pause will end, that now, in which area, is there already a recession, this conflict, or will it still develop? no, it seems to me that everything is just beginning, not only the active part begins, but then there will be some second more passive, yes, more slow-flowing, but we are not there yet, and... first of all, now, i repeat, everything all the events related to the shifa hospital are somehow related to our hostages, not to us we were only interested in the underground tunnels, not so much the commanders who were under this hospital some time ago, we were interested in the information

that part of the hostages, first of all, were kept for a long time under the hospital, in the hospital itself, and secondly, unfortunately, despite the fact that we have military censorship, there are things that cannot be talked about, well, i will tell you that the israeli army took a certain number of bodies of our hostages from there, unfortunately we cannot talk about the numbers now , for now the information has not been confirmed yet, the families of the victims themselves do not know, but at the same time, unfortunately, the meaning of this operation included this, mind you... that is, these are people who are our hostages, who lived there, this is what you need to understand, that's all. what is happening now in the gas sector today, according to israeli. literally every minute we receive a new news, a new fact of an explosion, the detonation of another

tunnel, there are hundreds of them, this is a very difficult job, considering that tsakhal is now in the tunnel itself, he is very afraid to enter, because they are most likely mined, through these tunnels, all the terrorists, most of them, including the leaders, have gone somewhere to the south, now it is assumed that they are in a place... which is called khan yunes, everything is very small, you see, that's all, i've already made this comparison, it's about a third of kyiv, it's very densely populated, it's areas where danger lurks around every corner from every cellar, and the army is not waging a full-scale war, in our usual sense of the word, but this such a partisan guerilla, sejách očen... mnogo

questions about what will happen to the south of the gas sector, taking into account that the entire, almost the entire population, about 2 million people, is concentrated there today, and we understand that there can be no question of cleaning up hamas until we get there, eh, but now, this is an operational question, which is secondary to it, regarding the question of whether we can save our hostages, ours, mikhail, very important, you are just bringing me to the question that i was going to ask, he is so cynical, he will be, in at the end, i will add a little sugar or honey, and now it will be salt and pepper, but how can we get out of the contradiction between humanism and rationalism, humanism is a desire to preserve the lives of hostages, this is obvious, but if...' go to a meeting with hamazu,

this means that in an hour, two, three, five, there will be even more hostages, and not 1,400, but 1,400 israeli corpses, that is, this is how to get out of the situation, i and you and i once said that neither you they would like to be prime minister in netanyahu's place, because it is necessary to make some kind of decision, which in any case will be terrible, how to get out of this situation, humanism and rationality, rationality should be forgotten? here the point of view depends on the point of view, it is for this that we pay the salary of the prime minister, so that he defends the national interest, the opinion of the families of the victims, it is understandable, they should call for the government to do everything, but just literally half an hour ago new information appeared that allegedly israel and hamas are very close to concluding some first... first stage of the deal within the framework

which will free 50 people, you see, there is still a problem here, it is technical, logistical, hamas claims that not everything is held by this organization itself, there are hostages who are held by other organizations, in other parties, in other parts of the sector, not all of them can collect, there is a situation when , you understand, children and parents and mothers are in the hands of various - terrorist organizations, i very cautiously assume that today benjamin netanyahu and his government will choose humanism between rationalism and humanism, israel, you see, today already in israel they are talking directly about the elections, which it is clear that they will not take place in the twenty-sixth year, but earlier, and the prime minister, who probably still thinks that he will participate in the next elections, he probably will not be able not to take into account this political moment, that is, how his actions will

look, so, well, roughly understanding the mood in society, and by the way, there were public opinion polls, the israelis prefer, he will temporarily give in to hamas in some things, but when how to get it it is possible to return more hostages, therefore, between humanism and rationalism, i think, cautiously, that after all... humanism possesses, er , you see, here in israel there is an opinion that we will soak them later, yes, then we will find them, as well how after the munich olympics, after the terrorist attack, when we flew a lot of these terrorists, we can repeat the same thing now, this is my assessment of the events, you see, we are already talking about elections here in israel, no one talked about it in the first month, now criticism of actions gradually appears netanyahu not only from the side of... the opposition, but also from the side of the coalition itself, yes, today his main opposition member, so you understand, is the minister, his finance minister, and his

national security minister, if they can be criticized, then they can be criticized opposition, and therefore i assume that once the hostage issue is resolved, we will hear the news that israel will appoint another election. mikhail, look, i 'm going to say an optimistic phrase now, it seems to me that despite the huge amount problems, generally speaking, the state of israel is in a decent position, you do not have a spike in inflation, yes, it is, but it is impossible. to say that she is some kind of terrible , as we say, she was in ukraine, at the beginning of the war, no one in your country supported hamas with deeds, words, yes, israel is bad, hamas is nationally liberating, but somehow this trade i did not complain about israel, everything remained as it was, they broke off relations with israel, some countries that

are tens of thousands of kilometers away from israel, somewhere in latin america, some people, everything else, moreover, i even got the impression that the situation is improving , because saudi arabia and other countries saw, not just understood, but saw what hamas is, yes, for them israel is never will not become a beloved friend, no one will be kissed in a huff, but hamas is definitely an unloved friend, so everything is even about hamasovsky... people, well, except for iran and so on, hamas is a proxy and there is hezbollah, in short, a good state , we see that the world did not react as he did, let's say 20 years ago or 40 years ago, well, here you are with sugar, yes they sprinkled it, as promised , you know, i agree with you, diplomatically and politically, israel has a lot of support in the world, unfortunately there are a lot of

anti-semitic acts, because that the officials support, but there is no crowd, by the way, it is connected with the demographics in europe, it is connected with the demographics in the united states, you see, we have to fight, because here in israel there is such a proverb, we have to fight, not with mold, with dampness, you know , mold appears where there is dampness, the dampness of our region, even now it is not so much the palestinians, the palestinian problem, as iran, whose proxies are the khvusites, this is hizbullah, hizballah in turn has its own from now on about the fact that the houthis seized a ship in the red sea, assuming that it is an israeli ship, you understand, this forces against the background of your optimistic picture, suppose that right there now in the actions of iran and

its proxies, there is a danger that from a regional conflict, from... this will turn from a local into a regional, full-fledged regional conflict, because if the houthis, that is, iran, violates free navigation and trade routes in the red sea through the babeldepe strait, then it will turn into a real economic threat, not only for israel, but also for all countries region, the whole question is how far israel is on the one hand... on the other hand , saudi arabia, they will act according to the principle of the enemy of my enemy, my friend, and unite against the backdrop of these iranian efforts to destabilize the situation. so far, unfortunately, i cannot fully share your optimistic attitude, because you know, the scenario of iran - they themselves talk about it openly, they understand that we will not be defeated in an open military conflict, and

their principle is to wait... and psychological war for two by 2040, they believe that we are loose europeans who want to live in comfort, not to wage wars, but to fly abroad, so we ourselves will leave here, supposedly by 2040, this is what this constant pressure is all about. here are these shelling from the hisbala, which do not cause direct damage, but at the same time have a very heavy psychological effect, so now, probably, as is customary in our region, israel must demonstrate the club, now the time has come for us to operate, not by the geneva convention, but by what - in very clear language, which says that the one who came with a sword will perish by the sword, that's how it would be, mikhail, i continue to pour honey and