[000:00:00;00] the principle is a wait-and-see psychological war until 2040, they believe that we are loose europeans who want to live in comfort, not wage wars, but fly abroad, so we ourselves will allegedly leave here by 2040, in this this is the constant pressure, these shellings from hezbollah , which do not cause direct damage, but at the same time... are psychologically very difficult, therefore , now, probably, as is customary in our region, israel must demonstrate the club, here it is. it's time for us not to they operated according to the geneva convention, and with some very clear language, which says that he who came with a sword will perish by the sword, that's how it would be, mikhail, i continue

to pour honey and sugar. i didn't receive it, it will be honey, so this is my version, you said, this is your judgment, this is my judgment, it irritates iran, it will attack, it has no tradition of real attacks, a proxy attack is a tradition, the last big war, and before that it was even more incomprehensible dozens if not hundreds of years ago, it was iran, iraq, when saddam hussein attacked, not the ayatollahs. on the contrary, so he will spoil the nerves, but i don’t believe it, secondly, i am very skeptical about this kind of wave of anti-semitism and pro-palestinianism, i don’t know, pro-palestinianism, because no matter how we talk about muslims in germany from 84 million4, no matter how we talk about muslims in france out of 60

million. well, that’s eight, it’s the same in england and so on, when 3,000 people go to london, a city of twelve million, you can calculate a certain percentage of real support for hamas. we see on tv that everywhere is burning and it seems that it is really burning everywhere, in fact it is far from burning everywhere and not everywhere is burning for hamas or for palestine, so i do not believe in a long story, this is me. evaluation judgment, anti-bbc, i would even say that, well, you know, iran is here, because it is not just acting through its proxy, but it strives to possess nuclear weapons, so i would say that this is the perspective of iran, which has nuclear weapons - this is a completely different perspective than iran today, which, yes, i agree with you, does not

enter directly into this conflict and even officially declares that the decision of hamas to attack was only a decision of hamas, and it was not iran that gave him the orders, as you know. here we in israel are now discussing quite active immigration of jews from all countries to us in israel, still anti-semitism, i agree with you, it is not so terrible, thank god, there are no victims yet, but maybe one, but at the same time people are afraid, so now we are... that many people believe that despite the war it is safer not in brooklyn, but safer in tel aviv, so to what, how exactly this will lead, to what consequences we do not yet understand, but there is already such an anecdote that israel is the only country where there is a war, and prices for real estate is growing because even more jews are coming to move here, there is such a very

strange cognitive situation... dissonance, but at the same time i would not underestimate iran's motivations, israel will be destroyed, deal with this little satan, there is big satan, this is the united states, little satan, israel, today there was an arms exhibition, almost everything there is called by palestinian names , palestiny, palestine, gaza, alkuts, yes, that's how they call their missiles, of course, the iranians themselves suffer first of all , yes, we understand that 40 percent of this country , which was once a cultural, educated, heir to the great persian empire, they do not share these anti-israel sentiments, they would like to live well, and not fight against us, the same i am sure in yemen, where they have the opportunity to shoot at us with ballistic missiles, but in the country itself 60% of the population

is starving, well, here we are. if nothing else, for peace before all these events, for normal relations with israel, not just somewhere in yemen, or in this same place, or in tegiran, but simply in neighboring gaza, people did not want to fight, that’s for sure, well, some part and a big one, they say part, we have finished , excuse me, mikhail peliverta, an israeli political scientist, public figure, was with us, thank you, i am sorry that i have to say that now we will have... both advertising and a plot , and we will meet here with dmytro tuzhansky, the director of the institute of central european strategy, an expert on ukrainian-hungarian relations, all this will take place in just 10 minutes, about 10 minutes, so the plot,

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life frankly and impartially. you draw your own conclusions. good health again, until 8 p.m., as i promised, we will work with you, that is, we still have 45 minutes left, that's a long time. we will now have a conversation with dmytro tuzhanskyi, director of the institute of central european strategy and an expert on ukrainian-hungarian relations. i just accumulated a sufficient number of hungarian questions for the expert ukrainian-hungarian relations. mr. dmytro, thank you for finding time for us, and i have a question for you. i have never heard of an epidemic of idiocy, i always knew that there was a virus, yes , recently the flu has been regular and so on, but here is some such disease that has attacked mr. orbán, because he is often friends with

putin, well, about putin is already understood by everyone, and now orban says that he will hold a referendum, or a plebiscite, on whether ukraine should join. whether ukraine should be admitted to the european union. i thought, well, maybe, then, let the ukrainians lead a referendum on whether the state of vanuatu should join new zealand, or the state of sao tome and principe, join some african state and finally express our all-ukrainian opinion on this topic, that we are sitting here, fighting with whom, we have a lot. a more difficult issue needs to be resolved, not the war with russia, vanuatu, that's what worries me, what happened to him, what's wrong with his head? i am very impressed by your outline, it actually claims to be an expert comment, because somewhere approximately the situation looks like this, but i would

underestimated, because at first glance this kind of farce, speculations, manipulations, well, lies. this is the doctrine, the populist and liberal doctrine of orbán that he believes in, that he consistently implements, and now we are simply his hostages, you understand, that is, what orbán is doing so irresponsibly now, that to the country, he is doing it with brussels, he is doing it , i don't know, with german business, he does it, for example, with sweden, its accession to nato, and so on and so on, it's a very, very... a long list, and well it can be called there various viruses, pandemics and so on, but just the fact that, let's say this, and we, as ukraine , in bilateral relations, and brussels, as, well, more precisely, as the european union, as, as a community

of which hungary is a part, everything this is an underestimation, thought that you know, if, like the flu, after seven days, if the body would heal itself, right? this is not how things are going here, that is, we have already seen for 13 years, this regime, this format of relations , if it were to progress, it threatens the european union itself, to be honest, it does not threaten hungary itself, so the first thing we have to start, to realize this, this challenge, to realize this problem, not to take it lightly and finally start to, you know, work with it objectively , that is... well, it's not funny, not for jokes, unfortunately, and for ukraine, especially, you know, because well in one way or another, the european union can afford to somehow balance hungary again, i don't know, in some way, the survival of our state is on the agenda, because joining the european union is actually

identical or directly proportional to the preservation of our statehood, well nation and ours of the future mr. dmytro, i would like to argue with you on the following topic, because , well, no one said it would be easy, you see, i had a hard time imagining the situation when ukraine says we want to be in europe, on the second day everyone stood up, shouted and they said, they scratched their backs, they said, why don't we even think about it, no, no , come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, don't do reforms, come in, but that won't happen, and god forbid that this is only one country , well, maybe now we will talk about slovakia, maybe it will join, although there is also a certain controversy there, but i think that is enough successfully, and secondly, the longer orbán is in power, it seems to me, the sooner hungarian society will get tired of him, first of all, and all these narratives, they will be out of fashion in 3-5 years, for sure, and we in 3

- 5 years we will not come close to joining the european union, but i have the impression that everything is not so bad, it is natural, i did not think that anything would be different, there will be obstacles, obviously, well, now at least we know what they look like , much like orbán, these obstacles look like, well i share your motivation, that is, i am not a pessimist, i will even tell you that with this orben, with this orben, we can come to an agreement, yes, even, it does not mean that he will stop speculating, or that he will cancel this discussion, or that he will fight, this is not a referendum, or somehow he will stop being pro-russian, yes, but with him too... you can come to an agreement, the only thing that needs to be understood is that as of now, while it is not visible that the hungarian society is tired of him, his level of support is, well, high, it is 50% and so on, we do not see competition. well, i can still do that care, you know, if they said that charles michel said that the next expansion of the european union is in 2030 and orbán said that he

will lead the country until 2030, then in principle everything converges, yes, here, but you know, after all, we have is on the agenda, but in december there will be the question of opening official negotiations on ukraine's membership in the european union, and hungary is now saying, viktor orban said yesterday that he will correct the mistake of the possible opening of negotiations with ukraine on membership, in my opinion, this is a bluff. this is an invitation to bid, this is blackmail, and this efforts, you know, something like that, well, you are parasitizing on a very important issue, that is, he does not want to let us, you know, into the european union, or give us another green light for free, as, by the way, he made our candidate a status , remember how hungary voted then, there were, there were no conditions, yes, viktor orban thinks that this

is already too much, that’s the language he puts forward, look, i have one more such question, there is such a phrase in russian, zaderevya is invisible, when orban started it, so he has the will, it's not me you for the audience, i say, not entirely from his point of view and maybe this is an objectively unfair decision. the second world war, the trianon agreements, when hungary was really cut off very much by romania, slovakia, ukraine, the ussr, and so on, it all hurt, and orbán began to shout that it was not fair, now he is talking about it yes, he realized that it will not work to cross the border, to cross all the borders, it will not work, and he is now starting these conversations, about ukraine, and now we will talk...' even about spies in slovakia, it is no longer clear why, earlier

it was clear, yes, this is our land, it was ours until 1918, then it was brazenly taken from us, and now, and we want to somehow build some bridges here with those people, hungarians, who live there, but now there is simply no foundation nothing, i don't see why he would continue these conversations, when he already understood everything, and brussels told him and washington that there will be no change of borders, that's what the hungarian state is, that's how it will be, eh, you you know, i might sound a little paradoxical now, but i don't think i know how to fix it yet, but we it is very important inside the country to overcome this fear that orbán is a revanchist, that one of the hungarian leaders wants to annex transcarpathia, well, they are also speculating about this, but this is more of a distraction, creating a fog, in order to spin completely different things there, i will tell you, in the context of trianon , that such a national vision is official

, which orbán promoted and is promoting, well, now let's see how it will be, it is precisely overcoming the trauma of trianon due to the expansion of the european union, so that between the hungarians who live in hungary and between the hungarians who after trianon, the hungarians found themselves outside the borders, from them the border, and how it is decided, due to joining the european union and nato and the schengen zone, that is why ukraine should join, that is why serbia should join, all the rest of the countries in principle have already joined, hungary was the key a lobbyist for croatia's accession to the european union, because there is also a minority there, that's why , for example, viktor orbán's latest statements, they look very dangerous from the point of view of his vision, yes, that there should be an overcoming of triamnon, a union of nations, because saying that ukraine, we do not see you in the european union, they say, in principle transcarpathian hungarians, we do not see you in the european union, yes, they can fool people , speculate that you already have hungarian passports, you are already in principle in the european union, well, we, we will support you anyway

there are subsidies and so on and so on, but all the same, it is against the vision, yes, that is why i would advise to see this, this is a question in this way, and well, after all, to get rid of this conspiracy theory, that orbán is revanchism, revanchist, or trying to transcarpathia, well, honestly, this is not a realistic story, in general, this idea is hungary, well, it may have to support... at the level of 7-8, no more, this should be followed, because politicians are speculating about it, but for now, well, it is not on the agenda at all, yes, mr. dmytro, i would say that if someone is watching us, well, as a joke, maybe not a joke, i would hold a referendum in ukraine among ukrainian hungarians, whether they want ukraine to become a part of the european union, well, look, it's a cool idea, our institute wants to do it, you know or preceded us, they prepared a survey inside hungary, and unfortunately, the results there are bad, that is, only

a third of hungarians, inside hungary, believe that ukraine should become a member. union, but again, this is not the worst data either, i will refer to another survey conducted by other colleagues of ours, among transcarpathian hungarians, and surprisingly, most of them support the idea that hungary should provide weapons to ukraine, well now to this strange story, slovaks in slovakia, i read, worried about hungarian spies what can we say here, they say that the press is writing about it, journalists are doing surveillance, and this despite such public closeness and greetings of orban to fico, fico to orban, all friendship is chewing gum, everything is beautiful, wonderful, but this, but there are too many spies, we believe that what is this, what is this, is

this ukrainian intelligence throws up there these are all narratives, well, look, the main thing here is that there should be no russian intelligence there, and the question of the penetration of russian spies in general, including into the special services of hungary, first of all, and in principle of slovakia, this is a big question, orban is now rebuilding his special services, they they were basically destroyed somewhere in 2012-2013, now hontal rogan took over them there, he is one of those gray cardinals, one of the leaders of one of orbán, to be honest, i don't really believe in this story, i think it has more to do with , activations, i don't know, spies, just who is it, is it just a trick, is there really some kind of espionage, i think it has more to do with the fact that orbán wants to understand what fico is planning to do, and in general, where slovakia is going will go, because so far it does not look like

fico's slovakia is somehow strategic. victor's partner orbán, despite all the fears, despite these compliments to each other, that is, it is a big question now in general, where slovakia will go, and this question is not only on viktor orbán's agenda. but slovakia will still go straight, whether they are, well, you understand, we understand that the change of governments very often corrects, but the word itself corrects, i would say, not changes, so in your opinion, he showed that he corrects or changes, okay, he can say with words, we don’t sell weapons to ukraine, we don’t do that, in business, well, maybe he will reduce the number of weapons, if he is thinking about it at all, but maybe he will not stop this aid, that is, as far as we can talk about slovakia as a change, if the direction of thinking there at the head

of slovakia, look, the change is absolutely. there are, that is, the previous governments, that is, from 2020 to 2023, there was a paradox when slovak society, in general, was not anti-ukrainian, but rather isolationist, it did not want to speculate, to help ukraine in any way, because, as they say, it is almost a civil war there, russia was almost provoked by the united states, this is real data sociological research, ideas that slovaks supported, but the government, despite the public mood, took upon itself... responsibility , just had the opportunity to talk with eduard geger, with yaroslav nady, they sincerely accepted, this is what distinguishes them from viktor orbán, yes , that is, they are still aware of the importance of this moment, of supporting ukraine, why it is important for slovakia, first of all, for europe, in general for peace, yes in europe, that’s how they did it, fitz will do it differently, in

his, on the agenda, significantly now serious... internal issues than external, that's why i'm not sure that he, if he even wants to play this kind of geopolitical game that orbán is playing, for fico, there are much more important things, it's not just to return to power, that he did it through the elections, actually to consolidate this power, because he does not have the confidence inside the country that viktor orban has, neither from the point of view of the rating, nor from the point of view of the government, nor from the point of view of the coalition, there they have a problem with selection personnel, i.e. in certain ministries, excuse me, please mr. dmytro, i'm sorry, but i have to interrupt you, dmytro tuzhanskyi, director of the institute of central european strategy, an expert on ukrainian-hungarian relations, we talked not only about ukrainian-hungarian, but also about ukrainian-slovak, at least we touched on our conversation, well now you