[000:00:00;00] broadcast from the independence square, now we are specifically on instytutska street, and it is here on the 20th, on february 20 already, already in 2014, perhaps it is exactly so, it is definitely worth saying, the most tragic events of the maidan took place, in just one day there was a shooting here 48 people, in general, if we talk about the victims of the maidan, then it was 107 peaceful protesters, and also 13 law enforcement officers, but as i said, it was here at the institute from february 18 to 20, a total of 78 people were shot , most of them on february 20, you can see here, in particular, the photos of these people, i think that the people of kyiv can see them every day, who is here, well, they are

the guests of the city, probably more, but all these portals are lamps, flowers, and today we can also see them, although and there are not many, but people still come here individually and mention these people , in general, it is a very sensitive and open topic, i would say it is about the sentences for murderers, participants of the maidan, all over ukraine, in total, about 500 are being investigated, to be precise, 4,700 cases, regarding regarding the crimes against maidan participants, and as my colleagues, journalists, who mainly cover these processes very actively, they are afraid that, after all, most of these crimes will not be investigated, will not be investigated to the end, although law enforcement agencies and the sbi , literally today reported that the investigations are reaching the finish line, but there are fears that, for example, 10 years

are passing, and for many cases the statute of limitations is running out, and literally on october 18, the verdicts were handed down for five berkut residents, svyatoshynskyi district court of kyiv, a sentence was passed for five berkut residents, who were suspected of killing protesters, here at the institute, and then five berkut residents appeared before the court, three of them were on the run in russia, or rather not on the run, they were exchanged in the 19th year, they were exchanged, all five of them, two returned to ukraine. and appeared before the court, three remained in russia, and even with that, two were acquitted, and the other, and the other had already spent five years in sizo, and this is rather an exception, as journalists and activists who monitor maidan cases, because most cases still have a risk that they will not be investigated to the end, this and this is not only in kyiv, as we know, people came to the maidan from various cities and

villages of populated areas of ukraine, and of course that among the dead are people from all over ukraine, and of course, every prosecutor general who comes, and there were a lot of them from yarema to kostin, they all said that the maidan case is a matter of honor, and they should be investigated, everyone the ukrainian president, who came after the maidan to authorities, he said that the maidan affairs are matters of honor, they must be investigated, but in fact , for the sake of justice, we have to say and remind that the end of this story has not yet been put, well, there are actually not many people here, i see literally two men, maybe we will approach them now, talk to them, and ask them, good day, glory to the heroes of radio liberty, we have a live broadcast, we see few people here, here are literally single people, including you, why are you here today, we want

to honor and remember the fallen people, who, in principle, laid down their lives for the sake of our country being independent and the people who live now feel at ease in our country, that's how, and i'll take the opportunity, radio liberty is what i always watch from the 9 good morning, that's how i know you, that's how i know you, thank you, we thank you for your trust, you're well done, you're well done, i myself in the past tv kstb was a new channel, what is a microphone, i know that. and well, the way you are doing now, well, in any case, that’s how kyiv grates, i think, and you, well, from 9 to 10 ticks and resting because thank you very much thank you very much we actually work like this in the best interest of our audience and today we're talking about about 10 years why why we're here i was here exactly 10 years ago i was here uh and i could

be here, somewhere, or rather, my portrait. it's not some kind of philandering , well, it's a must for me, to visit when it all started, and from the 18th to the 20th, i'll definitely ... not do it, i'll definitely come here, i approach, some faces, i've just seen her on tv somewhere, and she's a plus here extremely powerful ukrainian energy, here, oh, here, no, i don’t know, here we have to , i am convinced that our leaders, as it is , our leaders, here they have to be brought here from time to time, and let them just pass by ... and let them become fully ukrainians, because many pretend to be ukrainians there, and they learned the ukrainian language there somewhere, and they do a lot of things, by the way, they do a lot of things, because when it started,

you live in kyiv, and i live over there near shulyavka, and when they approached beresteyka, it was the same it was quite recently, well, we survived then, because we are of the cossack race and we don't have a translation, so what. we will be free and free. thank you very much, thank you very much, we met here, as i said, quite a few people, here i see a man walking again, let's approach him, not many people, but they come, they also thanked us for our work, really, radio svoboda, it was one of the few media at that time, which showed what happened on the maidan live on the so-called, good, good evening, radio svoboda, we have a live broadcast, i see that you are with flowers, i understand so, did you come to honor the memory of the dead on this day? well, if my son had died, my condolences to you, thank you, he took part in the revolution of dignity, and i came to

hrushevska, now i will put flowers on the institutional one here, what is the name of your son, oleksandr, hryanik, well, there was a story from your channel about ugu , about him. why is it important for you to be here today, to honor my son, i consider myself an adequate person, if i didn't come on this day, and well, it's not an obligation, but a holiday tribute, let's put it this way, it's not difficult, it was hard for them, it was much more difficult, well, to remember , if only on this day, because i remember very well those that it was from the first to the last day, and this is when they were mass shooting, sashko came the day before at 3-3 in the morning to the forest on foot from the village and

went to sleep, and when he woke up in the morning, i told him that there were mass shootings, and he says that i fell asleep, that i missed so many things, well , there was such a story, well, what can i say, they are all heroes, right? thank you, if it wasn't for them, i can't even imagine what could have happened, but your son after that he left, he went to war, well, he was in azov from the 16th to the 22nd . war, well, kyiv, bucha, irpen, maschun. and on may 29 he flew in a helicopter, well, to his brothers, and on may 8 he died, the story of oleksandr hryanyk is on the radio liberty ukraine channel on

youtube, you can watch it in its entirety, thank you very much, thank you for your son, let ’s forget it, that’s it and such people we meet here, in fact, as my colleague said at the beginning of the program, vitaly portnikov, after all, the war made its adjustments and already, if before the war, i personally remember, before the full-scale war, there were significantly, significantly more people here on this day, despite the the weather, and the situation, less today, but we see that they still come and mention, and i also cannot help but mention that guests also came to kyiv today, the president of moldova maia sandu and the president of the european council charles michel and he said that he would do everything in his power to make ukraine after all started negotiations on joining the european union.

let me remind you that the beginning, well, there are hopes that all the countries of the european union will give the green light for the start of negotiations, in the middle of december, and it can be said that this will also be a very large section. including for what they came here to the maidan for, because euromay, the revolution of dignity and euromaidan in general began precisely with the fact that ukrainians came out and demanded... from the then ukrainian authorities to sign an association with the european union and today, as you might have already heard we met our viewers here, the viewers of radio liberty, they mentioned our work, i can't help but mention that radio liberty was one of the first media that actually broadcast live on the maidan stream, then it was a new technology, and we, we asked our colleagues, these are andriy dubchak and shurhalo, these are the first streamers, streamers of the maidan,

then journalists of radio liberty, we asked them to remember how it was, i suggest you watch this excerpt now. what happened on december 1, no one expected to happen so many people, it was really something incredible, it was hundreds of thousands of people , it was really very impressive, at once strength, at once strength, but the main thing was developing on... bank street, where the clashes started, they told me to be here, i say no, you have to be there, now about a thousand people are storming with the help of a tractor, trying to break through the police border to the bank border, there were vvshnik borders at that time, there was a berkut, clashes began, i was filming from the fence on my phone, and grenades flew in front of my eyes ,

which hurt a lot of people, a lot journalists were traumatized and wounded, it seems to me that it was still a revolutionary improvisation, that it was the beginning of a revolution , you know, under the conditions when there were many hundreds of thousands of people here, then if the leaders, the political leaders of the opposition led people to the bank, they are the regime yanukovych could have been overthrown then, it was the full responsibility of the political leaders of the opposition at that time, they deliberately put the revolution on hold, they sought to negotiate, they were not yet ready for the revolution, and if the participants of the protests, they were not yet ready to act contrary to who stood mayda scene. on december 1, the government was scared, but on december 1, the opposition was also scared, how helpless the opposition looked, it did not know what to do with this crowd, but a week passed after december 1, this march of millions was called, really, it was hundreds of thousands, well, different estimates, different... data on the number of people, but it was incredible, yes, it was

a bunch of universes on people, and just before i hit my head, there were still new technologies, and a small camera that allows you to take a wide corner and shoot beautifully, i'm with i went to the square with this camera, and i understand that the best angle, of course, will be a christmas tree, i was afraid of heights and still am, but i climbed the hill and filmed the march of millions from the height of the christmas tree, the revolution of dignity. revolution, what did you feel then, it was very powerful, these hundreds of thousands of people, when they shout one word , yes there, there yes, no, yes, this sound, it converged on the top of the christmas tree, and the metal vibrated from, from these sound waves , thanks to ukraine, i came, quickly cut something there, put it on the internet, and thanks to this video, there are many people all over the world saw what

was happening, because the video was picked up by many foreign tv channels. the government of yanukovych, the regime of yanukovych repeatedly tried to storm the maidan, to clear the maidan. how did these events happen? this was the first assault on the maidan, when a lot of berkut and internal troops were going up, it was from there that they entered from mykhailivska, and from here they stormed from above, and right here under this bridge there was such a barricade and such a kind of crowding. there are a lot of photos from that moment, we streamed, berkut from the institute, but we haven’t published them yet, this it happened in several , in several areas, this is pushing, wall to wall, this happened, they tried to push out, or not allow themselves to be pushed out, then it seemed, oh well, there was something like that once, but really, it was something new, in ukrainian street activity, the maidan held out, but it was... i will tell you, it was a revolution

that was put on hold, but in january, after the new year and christmas holidays, it became obvious that the maidan was not disbanding, and the authorities realized that it was necessary somehow react ie or go to concessions, or tighten the nuts, for some reason they decided to tighten the nuts, in january such strengthened and repressive legislation was passed against the participants of the protests, and the response to this was the events that unfolded on the water baptism. it was, as one might say, a real baptism of fire, and in the end, at that moment, there was already this radical activist of the maidan, he already... he was already very little dependent on the stage of the maidan and he was already this radical protest nucleus, it was already ready to lead behind the maidan, clashes began, and the sticks went into action and went into action light-noise grenades and tear gas, all this went into action from the side of the security forces, of course

, this is what started the force confrontation, when it all started to set fire, the scene... immediately also declared that what, what is this provocation, this is some kind of mine i was not just surprised, it was incredible, how different the clashes are here, yes, there are burning tires, burning cars, on the stage of the maidan, they are trying to show that there is a peaceful protest here, the dissonance was incredible, yes, but then, yes , the maidan, the stage of the maidan, these political leaders, they realized that after all, the sympathies of the people are more on the other side, more on the side of the protest actively saw the beginning , saw the burning buses, rushed, talked , saw how this belarusian, zhiznevsky, was being carried out, yes body, soul was dragged,

soon after that the first blood was spilled, there were the first casualties, nigayan, then zviznevskyi, a few days after the water baptism there was also... miria, the clashes stopped, but already, that is, it became obvious at that moment that the maidan would not disperse just like that. here is this material that we just showed you, you can look at on the radio svoboda channel on youtube, our colleagues, let me remind you once again, andriy dubchak and dmytro shurkhalo, they were the first streamers of the maidan and thanks to their footage, and this is for many generations ahead, you can see from... remember literally to the second all the events , which took place here, starting from november 21, ten years ago, and as we already said at the beginning, that the maidan , in fact, the euromaidan, which started everything, led to a change in the political course of the country and

to a change in the political class, many participants of the maidan later became politicians, government officials, deputies, and next to me... volodymyr vyatovich, people's deputy from european solidarity, good evening, and 10 years ago you were the director of the institute of national remembrance, 10 years ago i was not yet, you became in the 14th , i am in the 14th just as a result of the victory of the maidan, because at the age of 10 i was just a historian, just a historian, before that i was the director of the archive of the security service of ukraine, just in 2010 with the change of power with the arrival of yanukovych, i was released, and all the declassifications that we launched were stopped, institute of national remembrance 10 years ago was, was actually in the stage of liquidation, it was headed by a representative of the communist party, mr. soldatenko, and it is obvious that if there was no maidan, one of the consequences of the absence of the maidan, obviously , would be that the institute was liquidated, an institute that was created back in yushchenko's time, therefore, the fact

that i headed the maidan became precisely one of the results of the maidan. do you think that the political leaders of the maidan of that time were fully involved. and the post-maidan used the historical chance they had against such a background great trust in them and after the maidan, and what was there, and it seems to me that we should not put any excessive responsibility on the leaders, it is important that all other people who went to the maidan were ready to take responsibility and become those leaders, i did not consider myself one of the leaders, but nevertheless i understood from the results of the maidan that the only thing the country can offer now is to become a part of this country, to take some responsibility for the future fate of this country, therefore i have great respect for those people who then in the 14th year went to the authorities, because the situation was just critical, extremely critical and they were able to do something, of course they could not do everything, they did not do everything, of course not everything, even from what

they could do , probably could have done more, but at the same time, this is the claim that each of us should address to ourselves, it seems to me that the peculiarity of ukrainians, as a historian i can say, is that we are beautiful, protestors, rebels, dissidents, but we also know how to win, to snatch victory from the teeth of the enemy, but then we don't always know how to take advantage of this victory, for me in the 14th year one of the key reasons why i still went to the institute of national remembrance, took on some responsibility, was just the experience after the previous revolution, the orange revolution, i i was also an activist of the orange revolution, one of the... founders of the civic campaign, it was time and in the fourth year i worked full-time, devoted myself to those revolutionary events, and then i considered for myself that i had done my part, as they said then, i defended my part on the maidan. i can just to return to history, it was a mistake, it was a mistake of those thousands of people who stood on the maidan, that they decided that there are others, there are some politicians, some leaders, let them

answer, in the 14th year it seems to me that already significantly more people realized that it is impossible to simply leave the fate of ukraine to a small part of the people, even those who are more ready for it, who were on the maidan, that it is the responsibility of each of us, so it seems to me that the changes that did succeed launch after the 14th year, even if they don't fully corresponded to what the maidan stood for, but they still moved the country in the right direction, and probably, in those years from the 14th year, even more than in the previous decades, and when 10 years ago, in 13 in the year euromaidan began here, and it began quite cheerfully, i would even say, yes, with such great optimism, there were still all these victims, shootings and so on, did you then assume that it would turn into something very tragic, how it grew, and secondly, very, very transformative, i would say so, because big changes took place, no one expected that this protest, which began 10 years ago

in this place, that it would take on such a large scale, especially that no one expected that there would be any such tragic pages, because we had a certain my personal experience, the people who came here to the maidan, of the orange revolution, and this was the experience when we said that our revolution would be fun and defiant, it was like that in 2004, it is clear that something similar was expected here , but the difference was felt at the very beginning, this is the difference in disorganization, if we are talking about the year 2004 , we were preparing for that, we were preparing for that , well, for about a year, deploying some structures, understanding that the authorities were preparing for falsification of the elections, that we had to be ready to react , so actually when on the 22nd, on the night of the 21st of november 22nd, the cec announced viktor yanukovych as the president despite the falsification, well , they knew what to do, nothing like this happened 10 years ago, 10 years ago mustafa nayem

called on people to come here, people came out, people did not know what to do next, there was no organizational core , there was no obvious plan, everything just happened on the fly and on the fly, and it seems to me that one of the reasons why, in particular, it went according to the tragic scenario, it is not our disorganization, because some things, some tragedies could certainly have been avoided if we had been more organized, but that the main blame for that, for that tragic part of what happened on the euromaidan, is borne by the government, which from the very at the beginning decided that force, the use of force is what can put an end to the existence of any protest, the power at that time was the power of yanukovych, it is obvious that the events of 2004, when he could not make decisions, were a trauma for him too, it is obvious that if in 2004 he made a decision and that maidan would probably be dispersed by force, but then i will make a decision... it was not he who made the decision, but leonid kuchma, who essentially did not allow it to happen, so in 2013,

yanukovych, as a person who clearly looked up to putin very much, decided that these are putin's scenarios, and i will remind you, then in 2012 year, protests were dispersed in russia, the so-called white ribbon and so on, so yanukovych sincerely believed that it would work in ukraine, let's be polish, tighten the nuts and that would be the end of it, but it was the maidan that showed that ukraine is not russia. as leonid danylovych said, and her subsequent tightening of the nuts, on the contrary , added a kind of escalation to this confrontation. i remember very well, the last day before the crackdown on the maidan, the last evening from november 29 to 30, when it became clear that yanukovych had not signed the agreement on free association, when somewhat helpless people arrived the politicians who said that we had not succeeded in anything , when the leaders of the student organizations came out, said that we are leaving the maidan, we will return to other methods... well, in fact , the maidan had already dispersed by then, and only a small number of those people remained who for

that it was the last night, that they remain on the maidan, some of them are visitors, and for sure , if there was no force maidan on november 30, it is likely that the maidan would never have acquired the scale that it acquired after that night of dispersal, and precisely this power acceleration added to this protest action , which at first was clearly political-helitic for the u-turn, against the u-turn from europe, it took on another and additional sound, that is, if i understood correctly, the people are still in their mass, then we saw the march of millions, they are ready were to come to terms with the fact that yanukovych is returning empty-handed, but the forceful approach and dispersal is what they were no longer ready to come to terms with, absolutely, it took the protest to another level, i.e. the number of those people who were ready to fight, freeze precisely for the european... rate was not as large as the number of those people who , mobilized by the slogan of our children, were beaten, here is

the news, here are these terrible shots that came on television, well, they mobilized here... that million, who went out into the street, i remember very well when, on the morning of november 30, it was obvious that the maidan was blocked, we spontaneously gathered just under mykhailivskyi, and there were those people who were hiding, they made a spontaneous scene there near the monument to olga , oles dunii brought such equipment, they gave it to me a bunch of microphones, why a bunch, so that there would be a louder sound, and we actually held a rally there for a day, it was very important that, on the one hand, people... got together, and on the other hand, that this, this growth was not channeled into some pogroms, massacres, i certainly want that, when the authorities wanted it, especially since we were preparing for it, there was information from the regions that people were going to kyiv, we had to wait this day so that the next day we could all speak together, and so it happened, on december 1, this march

of millions really took place, when people passed from mykhailivska street to volodymyrska street, to vbulivar shevchenko, then to khreshchatyk, on khreshchatyk there was an attempt, a pitiful attempt by the police to stop this sea, they ran away , literally, that is , there was not even a single skirmish, they just simply ran away, and the maidan had already acquired a completely different scale. that is, it was no longer this cheerful student revolution, it was already rage, which partially spilled into the fights that took place on december 1 near the presidential administration, and then there was already full zeal that that's it, now we won't leave here. how do you feel about here are these messages from the ukrainian authorities, in particular volodymyr zelenskyi, that russia is preparing some kind of special operation , which they call maidan 3, to depose the president, well, first of all, do you believe that russia is preparing something similar, i will correct you right away, maidan 3 is exactly what happened 10 years ago, because the first maidan is here in the same place, maidan 4, if something is being prepared,

yes, secondly, both maidan 4 and maidan 5, maidan 25. russia is not can prepare, because none of these maidans was prepared by russia, because the maidan is essentially an anti-russian tool, that is, it is a tool of self-organization of ukrainians precisely to protect democracy in ukraine and to separate ukraine from russia, and for russia, this is one of its metaphysical fears, this is what putin really hates personally, on a personal level, since 2004, when, in fact, he received a resounding international slap, after welcoming viktor yanukovych as president, viktor yanukovych did not become president, so russia will never be able to do something like the maidan, whether russia wants to want to make some internal disturbances in ukraine?

of course, yes, you know, the thesis of general zaluzhnyi that we have entered the phase of a positional war was sounded and he very aptly compared it with the events of the first world war, so again, as a historian can say that the exit from a positional war in the first in the world and on the western and eastern fronts was not due to the introduction of any new types of weapons, but due to the revolution in russia in the 17th year or in the 18th year in germany, er, that is why we should understand this, and i believe that it is extremely important for us to speak now about the support of the new peoples of russia, but at the same time we must understand that russia can also see... a way out of this stalemate, by shaking up the situation in the middle, so there is definitely such a danger. thank you very much, volodymyr vyatrovych, director of the institute of national remembrance, 14-1 years, currently a people's deputy from european solidarity, and 10 years ago he came to euromaidan as a historian, thank you very much, and also, i can't finish not to mention

the fact that one of the spokesmen of the security forces of that time of the government of viktor yanukovych, this is oleg tatarov, during the maidan, he held a senior position in the ministry of internal affairs, even during the maidan, he received the title of honored lawyer of ukraine from the hands of viktor yanukovych, now he is the head, deputy, excuse me, head of the office of the president of ukraine volodymyr zelenskyi, and this is such a very irritating , i would say, moment for the current ukrainian government, which is constantly mentioned to the current ukrainian government, but i think that on this day it is important to remember it again. oleg tatarov said, called the protesters individuals, radical individuals who are capable of anything, that was his communication at that time, although he said of course that he was just