[000:00:00;00] programs will be people's deputies of ukraine, so don't switch, jaferurov is working for the next 15 minutes about the blockade of checkpoints on the ukrainian-polish border, and what ukraine is losing from these protests, another ukrainian driver died on... the border with poland, because protests by polish carriers, drivers have been standing in line for weeks to cross the ukrainian-polish border. while the polish carriers do not agree with the proposals of the ukrainian side and want to continue the blockade until the end january next year. so what is happening

on the border with poland? polish carrier. long-haul truck drivers have blocked four checkpoints on the ukrainian border due to what they say are financial losses. their key demand is to return the issuance of permits for work in the countries of the european union to ukrainian carriers, because now, due to the full-scale russian invasion, they are subject to a kind of transport visa-free regime. it was approved by the eu in the summer of 2022 as a temporary agreement to facilitate the work of ukrainian drivers. and that infuriated the polish carriers, and according to them , because of this they began to lose their earnings. so, the protest started on november 6, when polish drivers blocked the jagodin dorogutsk checkpoint, then krakivets-karova karchova, rava ruska grebenne. and as of today , they have blocked another checkpoint of medic sheghini. the other day, slovak carriers joined polish colleagues. the waters

blocked slovakia's only checkpoint from ukraine for an hour. but they added, it was a warning, but they supported the polish carriers, which apart the cancellation of a transport visa has other conditions, a separate queue at the border for empty vans and access to the ukrainian border system. today it became known that the protests, which the ambassador of ukraine in poland called a blow in the back, and because of which two ukrainian drivers have already died, the strikers want to continue until the end of next year, and we are joined by my colleague, ilona gromluk, she has been investigating since the beginning of the protests this topic. i congratulate you, ilona, ​​the protest of polish carriers is growing, attempts to settle it have so far been unsuccessful. and from what all started, and what are the attempts to resolve the conflict?

greetings, colleagues, in fact, the tension between polish and ukrainian carriers has been felt for a long time, before the great war, ukrainians could travel to countries, or come to them only with permits, the number of permits each ic country determined independently each year, and there were incidents when polish carriers began to reduce these permits for ukraine, the matter even reached the courts, and after february 24 it became even more difficult, ukraine can no longer transport its goods by sea, air and all that remained was a dry one, that is, the work increased significantly, but the permits did not, and last year, the ec decided to make life easier for ukrainian carriers, and last summer the european commission signed with ukraine the agreement on transport visa-free, which we have already mentioned, and this means that now ukrainians do not permits are required, they can travel freely, ukrainian carriers can travel freely in the eu countries, as it seems that they have already been accepted into the eu, but instead the poles' position has shaken, because when

the great war just started in ukraine and it was hard for the ukrainians, the drivers had to leave, because men were not allowed to leave, the poles created hubs with goods intended for ukraine, and they independently drove for these goods, brought them to their hubs, and the ukrainians only had to pick them up, that was very good, but actually not very profitable for ukrainian drivers, and now, after this transport visa-free , ukrainians can pick up their goods themselves, and it is profitable for them, before the war, poles also used to go to belarus and russia, and now orders are closed there there is no in addition, drivers polish carriers often had ukrainian drivers, and because of the war , many of them went to the armed forces or simply returned home, that is, there is a shortage of personnel. instead, ukrainian carriers now drive more. the government says that 98% of everything that used to be transported by sea now goes overland.

it is in this way that the demands of the polish strikers should be understood, everything is about competition, because they want ukrainians to travel only with permits and be dependent, in particular, on the poles, as before, and they, in turn, took over a lot orders from ukraine and for the country, they also want to get back ukrainian drivers, and for this they are asking to give them access to the ukrainian system shlyah, because it seemed that what they needed shlyah for, because this system was created for men who cannot leave from ukraine, now during the martial law, men from 18 to 60 years old cannot leave ukraine, and so, if a driver wants to leave, he registers in this system and he has the opportunity to work abroad, but the nuance is that in the system the way drivers can register only in ukrainian trucks, that is, if a ukrainian driver wants to register for a polish truck, he cannot do it, and now the poles want it to become possible, that is, all the demands of polish drivers are aimed at making their

business go up, and ukrainian business down, that's why it's so difficult to agree, because ukraine can't agree to it, and especially it can't agree to ukrainians traveling with permits again, because this transport visa-free is a lot... a third-party agreement, that is, all members of the is country signed it, in that including poland, and therefore poland cannot break it unilaterally, the polish carriers, yes, they said that they lose their earnings from this, what do you think, what is at the root of this conflict, after all, the economy or are there political considerations there as well? eh, yes, of course the economy, because polish carriers say that for their business, it's a question to be or not to be? in general, but observers say that it was not without politics, because poland just recently held elections, and here in december, closer to

in the new year, perhaps they should elect a new polish government, they should form it and it should be headed by donald tusk, and he is so pro-european, he loves ukraine and wants to establish relations between our countries, because now they have noticeably cooled down, so that he would not be like that sweetly, some political scientists assume that maybe the opponents wanted to put him on such a pedestal so that it would not be so good and easy for him to establish relations with ukraine. in addition, one of the organizers of the strikes is the head of the lublin branch of the far-right confederation party, who is famous for his very anti-ukrainian statements. milono, before continuing the conversation, i suggest you watch the report of the bbc correspondent in eastern europe, sarah rainsford, she visited the border and talked with ukrainian drivers. and with the polish strikers. stuck on the way to ukraine. now there are hundreds of trucks in this queue, which are not moving at all to the eastern border

of poland. they are locked in a trade dispute that could signal rising tensions between the two neighbors and allies. where is this pole, in such places spartan conditions. it's been more than a week. lives in the cab of his truck, and what about colleagues, where the promotion has passed, he constantly checks for news and developments, but there are none, while the drivers are running out of food, money and patience , it is accepted, colleagues, thank you, it is a shame for stanislav, because from the beginning of the russian the invasion of poland was a faithful friend of ukraine, because the nerves are already giving out, already in a week, well, people can't stand it. it's just a psychological attack, i don't know if it's true, well, poland has decided, well, what's left for me, thank you poles for helping me so much, the queue is almost 20 km long, and the polish

truck drivers are blocking the road with their protest, they say that ukrainian drivers are stealing their earnings since the european union lifted restrictions on entering europe, such a step yes should have helped ukraine during the war. we constantly support ukraine, but we also need to support our own families. now it is a matter of existence for our companies. the protesters are letting food, as well as humanitarian and military aid into ukraine. everything else is practical has stopped and is limited to a few trucks per hour in both directions. when the war started in ukraine, there were completely different scenes here on the border. huge support and sympathy from the polish side. because ukrainian refugees will rush here across the border. now the poles' sympathy has not run out, but this protest is the latest sign of worsening relations between the states. i no longer support ukrainians,

yolanda tells us in a nearby village. i 've had enough. from mine to yours. probably a snake. sofia also agrees that support is less, and cites the hard times in poland as the reason. meanwhile, a ukrainian truck driver. they just want to go home, but they themselves, and negotiations to end this protest are still at a dead end. and before i continue. next, if you're watching us on youtube, don't forget to subscribe to our channel and like this video so more people can see bbc content thanks to you. so, ilona gromluk, a bbc correspondent, is in touch with us. quite a lot of time has passed, about 2.5 weeks since the beginning of the protests. oh, i wonder what the estimates of potential losses for ukraine are? well, ukraine complains that polish carriers do not comply with the terms. blockades, this is a very important point, because it can

be sued. they promised not to detain humanitarian, perishable, and dangerous cargoes, that is, those carrying fuel, gas, chemicals, and also promised to let one truck a day through, but this has happened more than once, the deputy minister of infrastructure, who leads these all the talks that the builders don't follow it, they don't let the humanitarian woman pass, no they let perishable goods through, but not dangerous goods at all... and also they let through only one truck for three hours, that is, it happens that only eight trucks pass there in a day, and the result leads to the fact that earlier, if the border it was possible to travel in 12-15 days, and the polish carriers complained about it a lot , now it is all 28 days, and because of this ukrainian business suffers greatly, according to the calculations of the european business association, on average one day of downtime for a large company, this losses of about... 1 million hryvnias, and there are also various fines and sanctions if

companies do not deliver their goods on time, and there are also reports that there is already a shortage of fuel in the country, today i spoke with the owner of a large sausage business, who , in order to make his sausages, supplies special salt from germany, and this salt simply does not work for him, if it used to go to the factory for a week, now it goes all three weeks, and also the entrepreneurs who make juices in ukraine, with whom i spoke today, complain so much, because before the war, they were not as dependent on exports as they are now, because everything came from the south of the country, and now they are very dependent on exports, and these goods simply do not go to them, and this can all greatly affect prices, and in general and according to people's moods, and especially now that we are on the eve of christmas, eh, and eh, this all makes the situation very difficult. we also launched an anonymous survey form today on our website for people who have been affected by the polish blockade, that is, we have been looking for such

people, and we can see that this issue really bothers a lot of people, because the message they just come every 5-10 minutes, someone is waiting for medicine from abroad, someone has ordered, someone has ordered winter clothes, someone has some kind of chaos at work, this is a really big problem for ukraine now, ilon, and that’s interesting about the negotiations, you mentioned the negotiations, but how the ukrainian side responds to the claims of polish carriers, in us. for a minute, they say that most of these requirements , the absolute majority of them, are impossible to fulfill, and the european commission supports us in this, because this agreement on transport visa-free, which we signed, was signed by all countries and all eu countries, and you can't just take it and tear it up, it's a violation of agreements , so there is no provision for a compromise, thank you, thank you ilona, ​​this is ilona gromluk, a bbc correspondent, and about how slovaks.

joined the attempts to block the border, what came out of it, read ilona gromluk's article on our website , the border with slovakia was also blocked, how ukraine is fighting the blockade of polish carriers, there is a detailed analysis of the demands of the carriers and an attempt to resolve the dispute. and that's all for today, look for more stories on our website bbc.ua and on on our pages in social networks, we are on instagram, tiktok.

and facebook, and we are on the air again, tomorrow at 9 o'clock, take care, congratulations, friends, live broadcast of the tv channel , the verdict program continues, we broadcast in a two-hour format, now the second part of our program begins, i would like to remind you that during our program we conduct survey, we ask you this , have you prepared for a power outage in the winter, yes, no, please vote, on our social networks, in particular on youtube, it's quite simple there, two options, yes, no, or your choice of answer. write under the broadcast in the comments, those who are watching us now on tv, please pick up the phone and vote in our poll, are you prepared: are you ready for a power outage, yes 0800 211-381, no, 0800-211-382. all calls to these numbers are free, so vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote, what we are talking about today,

a short aons. blockade of the border, how ukraine plans to negotiate with poland, and what consequences could this lead to? from solidarity to the strikes, difficult relations of ukraine with hungary, poland and slovakia, how to overcome the opposition of neighbors, millions abroad, how to return ukrainian refugees home, today i am visiting verdict, mykola knyazhytskyi, people's deputy of ukraine, european solidarity faction, mr. mykola, i congratulate you and thank you for joining our broadcast, congratulations, yuliya klymenko, people's deputy of ukraine, voice faction. ms. yulia, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. good evening. ivan krulko should also join us, people's deputy of ukraine from the homeland, but it will happen a little later. so, ladies and gentlemen, let's start our conversation with the blockade of the western border of ukraine, because today it became known that polish

farmers have already promised to block the border with ukraine at the beginning of january, and they are talking about what they will do. to the blockade of polish transporters on the border with ukraine and continue their protest 24 hours a day until january 3, although they originally planned to block the border crossing until saturday. mrs. yulia, please tell me which one the reason why the western border, which is important for ukraine, is under the blockade of western european or eastern european carriers. why are they closing those doors that are important enough for us in the conditions of the air blockade and the blockade of our ports, well, you know, this is actually a question of competition between ukrainian and polish carriers, it didn’t arise yesterday, you know, it’s not a sudden illness,

not herpes, and chronic disease, that is, this is a question of competition, it has been standing for a long time and in its own way... europe, including polish the carriers protected themselves from us by introducing a permit system and issuing ukraine somewhere around 2,000 permits per year and more than 200-2,000 cars, well, if the walker, if you can say so, that is, the opportunity to leave, since there were no first-timers in the cargo, and with the beginning war, europe made the right decision, it opened the borders and made a transport visa-free for us, just as they did visa-free for citizens, they did the same for transport, because you rightly said, the only corridor of life, and so you can say, solidarity for us , it is terrestrial transport, across borders to western europe, to western europe and to eastern europe, that is, to europe, well, but the poles really feel

competition from ukrainian carriers, they are not used to it, they are not ready for it, and actually speaking, in poland there are such, you know , the interim government, the old... the government has not left yet, it is already going, and the new one has not yet taken its place, therefore, in fact , there is no one to conduct such effective negotiations with the protesters on their land, and especially, the current government, especially, well, let's put it this way, does not accept any participation in unlocking the borders, what about agraiya, this is the same situation, but it is new , in that farmers feel ukrainian competition and fight as they see fit, again without... the new polish government, this issue will be very difficult to solve. thank you, thank you, mrs. yulia, mr. mykola, you know quite well what is happening in poland itself, now and in its political part, please tell me if it is possible, the ukrainian authorities cannot, cannot

establish contacts with the new polish authorities or with the polish president, is the reaction sufficient... power, because sooner or later we will all feel the consequences of this blockade, because the prices of gas and gas stations are rising, the price policy is changing, it is clear that the terms of delivery of goods are also increasing, and the cost of delivery is increasing, is the ukrainian government effective now in negotiations with the poles, and is it necessary to conduct this dialogue and in what way, well, look, i look at this problem a little differently. the fact is, mr. serhiy, how many people do you think are blocking all ukrainian borders, how do you imagine, i think, several dozen, absolutely correct, 50-60 man, four roads, that is, to end this blockade, without permission, illegally, to end this blockade, 15 minutes is enough, if there was a desire of

the polish authorities. it is obvious that this blockade is illegal, it is absolutely true that this is an agreement with the europeans, which the poles also approved, and the problem here is one more thing, the fact is that military cargo is going, and imagine , first of all , earlier in the flow of cars, when there are military cargoes, and i quite often travel from kyiv to lviv, then military cargoes travel in ordinary trucks, ordinary cars, and you don't see where the cargo is on a military day, sometimes the police go ahead, very often they don't go, when only military cargo is released, then obviously the enemy clearly knows what is being transported and when it is being transported, because the others simply do not go, this is firstly, - secondly, in order to check whether it is a military cargo or not , these unknown people, we do not know who they are, open the cars, check the documents, we do not know how many fsb agents are among them, and the aggressor could only dream of such an amount of information that he receives now, because previously there was no such information in principle,

no one checked it and was not authorized. they say they let military cargo through, but that's how they open every truck. there are a lot of components for ukrainian enterprises that are involved in military defense, and well, for example, drones are assembled there, some parts or boards are supplied from other countries, and these boards and all that are there, or anti-drone systems, systems. .. rebu, all this is standing at the border and cannot pass, i have many telephonic calls from the military. therefore , it is obvious to me that this is first of all a question of national security, and i wonder why there is still no communication between the president of ukraine and the president of poland, why our national security council did not propose to convene the national security council of poland, to hold a joint meeting, because first of all, obviously, this is an economic issue, it is very important , but this is a matter of national security, and when to talk about an economic issue. poland is the largest supplier of liquefied gas in ukraine, this gas is stored there, only 30% of liquefied gas comes to us from other countries, gasoline

is becoming more expensive, we all know that russia is preparing to attack our energy capabilities, and now they are waiting until we find ourselves in a complete trap in order to do this, of course , this is also a matter of national security, but our president is silent and the nsdc is silent, they threw it into the parliament, well, not them, but certain deputies for certain factions appealed to the seimas and the senate to take part in unlocking the borders, but it is obvious that the seimas and the senate are newly elected, and the responsibility for this lies with the current president, because the current president, having assumed responsibility, appointed the prime the prime minister minorities, and in fact they are representatives of the same party, this is the president's business, and the appeal should actually be to the president and the current prime minister, first of all, and not to those who will come in the future. it is obvious that the poles are solving their internal political problems, where... political parties compete with each other, but i find the behavior of the ukrainian authorities strange , which, having all the trump cards in their hands, because we, the ukrainian authorities, and ukrainian society,

the ukrainian state they are right, because the poles are violating international law, they are silent and do nothing are doing, and this leads me to certain suspicions that there is a certain, certain, possible agreement that the ukrainian authorities would play along with certain political forces there, i do not know what else is behind this, or simply irresponsibility, because this is really a matter of national security thank you, mr. mykola, we are joined by ivan krulko, people's deputy of ukraine from the batkivshchyna faction. mr. ivan, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. good evening, we have already started this discussion about the blockade of ukraine on the western border, and here is mykola knyazhets asks a completely logical and correct question, why, in principle, this issue , which is a matter of national security, is not considered by the nsdc, because we remember when there were problems with the grain corridor, volodymyr zelenskyi spoke about this from the podium of the

un general assembly and hinted at that there, the polish authorities are playing along with the russians, in this situation, can it be assumed that the same transporters or the same farmers who block our trucks that go from ukraine to europe and from europe to ukraine, they also work in close connection there with russians, or at least. attempts at this cooperation? well, first of all, i would like to say that poland is our strategic partner, our friend, who did not stay away from the events when russia launched a full-scale invasion of ukraine, and we should remember and appreciate that, and vice versa expanding the circle of our friends in the world, and not narrowing it, is point number one, second, i agree with mr. kniarzecki here, when he spoke about the fact that this is a consequence of internal political issues and

problems inside poland, they are changing parliament of the polish sejm, they will have a new government , which will be formed based on the results of the elections to the polish sejm, and accordingly, these domestic political issues have come to the fore, but i cannot assert and for god's sake think that the polish authorities, deliberately or knowingly playing along with the kremlin in this matter, or has some kind of conspiracy with the kremlin. this, this i rule out, but the fact that russian agents work there, and the fact that these, such sentiments are fueled inside poland, not only in poland, but in other countries, that is, in therefore, from the war, from ukraine, all these other things, as far as ukraine is concerned, is dangerous from the point of view of business, especially agrarian for

the european union, that is, it is all the work of the russians. agent network with the sole purpose that ukraine has enemies and not friends around its borders, that support for ukraine in the world decreases, and accordingly this will facilitate the tasks that the kremlin sets before itself, to destroy ukrainian independence, so it seems to me that a truly ukrainian the government must constantly negotiate with poland, in this regard, because... russia is waging all kinds of war against ukraine, not only on the battlefield, but for many years before that it was waging energy wars and economic wars against ukraine. this is part of the economic war, and if we have strategic partners and friends, then obviously, understanding that in this way, they weaken the possibilities for ukraine to somehow provide defense forces at the front at the expense of the state

budget, they should stand here next to ukraine, i hope that this issue... will be resolved very quickly and it will be resolved in that very moment the moment when the political system will stabilize in poland. well, by the way, our correspondent nataliya staraprava visited the border with poland the other day, she talked with ukrainian drivers, cats are stuck on the border on both sides, this is what volodymyr mikhalevich, the head of the public organization international truck carriers of ukraine, says. we cannot understand how exactly we create competition for them, since we do not have the right to carry out transportation in europe, we can do from ukraine to europe, for example, from ukraine to poland, ukraine, germany, there is ukraine, i don't know, denmark and back and that's all, but a polish carrier can carry out transportation within europe, and this is allowed, because they are members of the european union, so we are definitely not

their competitors, and this is what we want to convey today's action, and here's what the ukrainian drivers say, they got stuck at the polish korchev checkpoint, they ca n't go home because of the blockade, the poles want to give us back that we drive according to permits, and make a separate lane for empty trucks to cross, well yes it is not clear, you have been standing for a very long time, and there are actually no conditions here, somehow they are helping, they said that they should deploy the aid headquarters, only ours are helping. representatives, they brought us water, they brought it there, and one polish woman brought it, fast food, yes, and the poles are nothing , there are standing there, the police, and the police yes, they take a little, but weakly, they take two

cars three, two cars aroports and awnings, and what time does it take? that is, one car takes what time it takes for two hours to take four drivers, very little, and there are those rallying they block, turn cars back, something like that, it works, but why do they turn it back? you say that you have been standing for a week, and what is the point, if it is not a secret, the director of the a95 consulting group said that in some places gas is already disappearing on ez and is rapidly increasing in price, according to him, due to the blocking of the polish border, through which 30% was already coming imports, this liquefied gas has already become more expensive, today i read a post by entrepreneur