[000:00:00;00] you go out to demand mobilization, well, because only through the mobilization of replenishment of reserves can you demobilize those who are already mobilized, simply no one can demobilize anyone due to objective reasons, then they fight for what, the exchange of prisoners, which the ukrainian authorities do not returns prisoners, we understand that it is not the ukrainian government that cannot unilaterally do this, the same is the case with the defenders of azovstali, i.e. they pump it up, then this is a classic of the genre, this is corruption, i.e. this is an attempt to discredit the ukrainian state as much as possible in the eyes own population of citizens and in the eyes of western partners, yes, that this is some kind of black hole, where you put resources and they go nowhere, that is, it will not change anywhere either, then briefly about the fact that the counteroffensive did not take place there, or it was repelled incorrectly or not so that there is nothing to do, and it is picked up , i repeat, it is all done by the locals, you understand what the matter is, you look, that is, they

look too. on this situation really from their point of view, that is, we cannot say that they are guaranteed to be wrong there, just a problem lies in the fact that they see only a part of this general mosaic, and based on this mosaic fragment they conclude, like the four wise men who tried to identify the elephant blindfolded, who held the tail, some held something else, some paws, someone by the trunk, and the conclusions, as we understand, were very different, so if you sum it all up like this, of course, the russians are doing everything possible to shake the internal political stability, i don't even say consensus, just stability, because there is a well-known postulate of theories of social management, the weakening of intra-group solidarity and cohesion, always make the group less competitive in inter-group competition, that 's the point, and it must be understood that just as we strive for this, well, we also

count on the increase of russian flights... the regime will face some internal contradictions, well, so do they, they produce it, so i would advise our viewers to have some practical advice, after all, to be more calm about everything that emerges in the information space, which is far not all the information you receive, it is not always comprehensive, very often you are given interpretations and assessments instead of facts, and many do not distinguish between what is a fact and what is an interpretation and assessment. and therefore, let everyone do what he has to do in his place, within the limits of his responsibility, and not tell us what the supreme commander-in-chief should do there, what ukrainian diplomats should do, what the ukrainian government should do, or what the ukrainian military should do , trust me they know what to do much better than anyone telling them what to do, including zim, you know, on the rights of publicity i'll add one more thing, despite the fact

that television is becoming unfashionable, television. unlike youtube channels, it has a large number of editors who are engaged in fact-checking, presenters who come out with their faces and answer to their faces for what they say, and, in principle, the media, which are accountable to the public for everything that sounds, so in the internet is interesting, but let's get used to watching the news in the evening and find out what really happened, and then that's it look at the comments, then the last line, when citizens consume food, i go to the store and buy products, right, i hope that i buy a product ... which i do not get poisoned, which are not harmful to my health, when i go to the pharmacy and buy a medical drug, i hope that it has also passed certain tests and is not harmful to me , unfortunately, this cult of freedom of speech, let's organize the freedom of food, let's organize the freedom of medical drugs , well, it's not like that, we understand that not everyone a person can independently, it is enough to determine whether it is harmful or harmless for that, it does not talk about restrictions,

it is only about the fact that there must be some responsibility, as you correctly said , that is, legal responsibility, reputational responsibility, all this plays a role his role mr. maksym, look, yes, when he came to you, mr. petro said that he did not see that this story, the informational pressure was easing, that is why the question of how to read the statement of the head of the szz, at the expense of which they can intensify, yes, i would like to begin by extending a little valentin’s opinion about the ukrainian media, the russian media, the fact is that the russian media, modern, they were formed in the conditions of putin’s rise to the top of politics, from the fact that he was in 1999, 2000 began to nationalize the once private media and centralize it at the state level , at a time when private media was actively developing in ukraine, so talking about the consolidation of the ukrainian and russian media space, these are simply incompatible things, and

in a situation where the russians are headed by the kremlin can control almost the entire flow of media in many channels of communication from tv channels there to print media, ukraine still does not have this, but at the same time, the key advantage that ukrainians have over russians is that we still, even in spite of ... not a very high level of media culture, we filter information better than the russians do, and let's say, the same deep fakes, they appeared in the ukrainian media from the first days of the war, remember how in 20 days of last february year, zelensky appeared, the evolution that he seemed to be doing, and this level is increasing , but despite this , fortunately, there is no systemic total shake-up of the situation, and well , if we were to analyze, let's say, the ukrainian copper space, analyze the sociology that has become for to find those ways that can be influenced in the context of the public sentiments of ukraine, which could shake the situation, fortunately there are none at the moment, but this does not mean that they cannot appear in the future, so on this, yes, the topic of the elections ,

the issue of external support, the issue of the same corruption, about which mr. valentyn speaks, these are all those triggers that can evolve and become, well, more, let's say, important arguments for ukrainians of their dissatisfaction, well, i would not actually underestimate the factor of influence not in ukraine, in european countries, the united states, do you remember how we all shouted and rejoiced over the fact that the united states, europe banned satellite, everything, there is no russian propaganda, but at the same time there are dozens of other smaller media that continue to introduce these pro-russian narratives on event, which, by the way, the ukrainian media very often rebroadcast, i would certainly like to stop you and talk about the tools that the russians use to enter the international information space. our colleague, andriy orlyak, has prepared a whole story about this. let's take a look at it. this is the russian oligarch megomed mosaev, who is very proud of his closeness to

putin, his influence in the fsb, and how good i am for russia? and this is the american austin russell. it can be shown by its place in the forbes ranking and the status of the youngest a billionaire although to the real one. the contents of his wallet, they say, now there is a question, and this is an important detail, because, as journalists have traced, it can connect the putin oligarch with an american businessman, and the skeptical question, well, so what, i will answer with a hint for the time being, if, according to infizis washington post, everything planned by these two succeeded, everything, by the way, almost, almost succeeded, then magomed mosayev, and therefore the kremlin , would take possession of a real golden key. this key will give me access to anyone - said musaev. the russian government currently finances the current well an elaborate disinformation campaign throughout latin america. the kremlin plans to use

the developed contacts with the media to undermine support for ukraine and promote anti-american positions and anti-nato sentiments. such a report was published by the us state department at the beginning of the month. states, as well as a bunch of western countries and. have long imposed numerous sanctions on russian state propaganda on their territories. the world is seeing that the kremlin uses controlled media in the same way as its controlled aerial bombs and missiles, i.e. as real weapons. i just bought it global forbes - said musayev. you understand that when you have the key to the world's most prestigious brand in your hands, this key will give me access to anyone. how does it work? kyivites point out, for example, with the russian version of forbes magazine, which musai owns since 2018, and which, after february 2022, seems not to notice the russian invasion of ukraine, to what extent the kremlin would use the already global forbes, that is, the

publication that literally lives with the richest and most influential people nearby, one can only guess, but it seems that musayev did not take into account one small thing, not everyone is obviously ready to live with counterfeit prices. there is no forbes global's shareholders terminated the agreement to sell the medical company to billionaire austin rascel. but stop, why is the russian musayev here, if it is about the american billionaire russell? according to investigative journalists, magomed musayev could attract rasel as a formal buyer of a world-famous magazine. to remain a duck himself, but whether due to chance or due to self-righteousness and arrogance, the oligarchs more than once spoke about his purchase in close circles, journalists claim. his words were carefully recorded on audio and video. after these facts were published in the influential american press at the end of october, no one

is selling anything to anyone. one of the reasons why the contract fell through is said to be the billionaire's inability to raise the full amount in time to complete the deal. 800 million. it seems that the days when money does not smell good for putin are over. and it seems that the key with access to anyone, the event took real control. andriy orlyak, tsn, marathon only news. well here it is actually the topic we wanted to talk about now. about the fact that we have been following some sensational articles in major publications for a whole month, the names of which we all know very well, and which we are used to taking as something very serious there, as an example, the last article of the bulletin about the fact that they will definitely force us now to negotiations well, the build is not serious, the build is gardon’s boulevard, only german, there are also references to yushentsi, probably, but very often people perceive forbes as the truth in the last instance, although... very

often there are also manipulative ones materials in different countries, the fact is that this influence on the western media is carried out in very different ways, and let's remember once in the columns of the washington post, journalists wrote that the satellite is an incredible vaccine, everyone should be vaccinated, i am a journalist myself , did it, so let's quickly get in line, this is when fizer and many other options were already on the market, so here are these methods of influence, there are many of them, and they are actually carried out not only through the media, and remember, now in austria , how much round tables are being held, dialogue between russia and ukraine, let's seek peace , seek agreements on the end of this war, where russian oppositionists appear, recently, this year, by the way, the wife of russian oppositionist karamurza, who is sitting as if in a prison in russia, she came to canada and told parliamentary committees that the people are not to blame for this war, only putin, let's lift the sanctions on the ordinary citizens of sizren and murmansk, but let's focus on putin. crossbars, therefore, these tools, there are actually many of them, and unfortunately, they are not so

composed, it is not so easy to limit them, because this is the freedom of the press, there are many committees, there are many unions that will protect this freedom of speech and find a line between , let's say a narrative on the destruction of ukraine and between, worldview and some kind of material of an individual journalist, it is sometimes quite difficult to distinguish, well, how should we work on this audience, because, sorry, there is not even an english-language marathon for the position of ukraine to be presented. in detail on all issues, well, a few days ago i was at some english-language ukrainian marathon, i don't know what kind of media it is, it 's state-owned, but it just appeared, that 's why it's called that, it's like starting to develop, it's clear that the level not that one, but my deep conviction is that you can beat russia in the information space only by investing a lot of money in the ukrainian information space abroad, because there is some other way to do it and convince everyone that ukraine is right and russia is wrong, here

this moment has actually already disappeared, when posters with the name like ukraine were hung on the billboards of international world centers and , that is, these things have already disappeared, here you need to work systematically, work with big money, unfortunately, because without them there is no such thing, but they are not there when the choice is between buying weapons, shells and investing money in some media that will be useless, we understand that information is a weapon, but nevertheless there is no money, and at the same time, it would seem that such is not the time. things, but let's say media influence on the position of some ukrainian partners is sometimes much more important than the results on the battlefield, unfortunately, no, absolutely, we see that, that is why the communication of our, excuse me, both the president and the deputy, for some reason is more directed there, because they understand what is going on there is partly a joke, but there is one nuance, well, the answer must be symmetrical , because a symmetrical answer cannot be valid, firstly, because, unlike the russians, we are not interested in... spreading

lies, discrediting, simple enough for us to spread true information, and this is directly the function of just journalists, well, of course, yes, that is, they have to do this work even without our help, and we must give credit that despite all these negative phenomena, which certainly exist in the whole world where there is a free press , there is such a phenomenon as the commercialization of the media, money matters, but reputation still matters , journalistic professional ethics matters, even the willingness of some journalists to put themselves in danger for the sake of the truth, yes, for the sake of true information, and the second point, well one must simply realize that the internal political context of all these states and the citizens of their own states are also interested in the will to the truth, if we can say so, that is, it is not about the fact that we now have to compete with the russians in something, we will not defeat them in let's not interrupt this, so the problem here is simply that we have to help in every possible way so that all those people

who want to get the truth, this channel, yes, of course, it is not, how to say, not like cnn, roughly speaking, yes, but if a person, roughly speaking, an english-speaker is looking for information about ukraine, she must find sources where she can get such information in a language that is understandable to her, and it is not for me to read you as journalists, how information is verified, how information is checked, so in this regard, i am still optimists that is, the battle is waged not only by propaganda, that is, not only by propaganda and counter-propaganda, there are also people who, simply by virtue of their professional duties, have to search and find. information and you have, well, you are journalists, i mean, first of all, you have to understand what it is deep-fake, what is not a deep-fake, ordinary people are unlikely to learn this, just like medical drugs, yes, that is, not every pharmacist should be there, that i will now peel off the vitamins and see if there is any truth what is written on them, no, there are specially trained people for that, so i wouldn't

dramatize it, because anyway, you know, know the truth, and it will set you free, and this human attraction to the will, it will always be there. .. is connected with a person's attraction to the truth. mr. peter, it was clear what you wanted will already enter, but i just want to go over, we started with the fact that everything is bad and thank you palentin , it turned out that there are still people who are fighting, what is happening there now, we can hope that the european and american media, well and there, in six months, the quarters will still get sick of this russian propaganda, well, i think that again, those who, those who used to engage in this propaganda, will continue to engage in it, because obviously, they get paid for it quite good money. if we look, for example, at the structure of russian revenues, then we will see that they still have a lot, a lot of money, absolutely stupid money, for which no one is absolutely responsible, does not report, this is, for example, in the united states, there the president cannot allocate aid to ukraine, he turns to congress , congress

authorizes, congress thinks, allocate, not allocate, when to vote and so on. in russia , all money is personal property. purely for propaganda, and for this money, believe me, you can buy almost everything in the west in terms of information, but there is one important nuance, one i can simply give an example that i saw when i was working as a reporter for the bucharest summit, everyone was very surprised when two il-76s arrived, which unloaded journalists together with petsko, harassed by tv stations, and everyone said, it was not easier for you somehow to drive, here to rent, they said, so what’s the difference, in our country the state drives planes here and there, there are no questions, then i can say one more line, when i show up in the us congress, well, there they were just preparing a meeting of the russian delegation, this one well it's like the law library of congress the usa, and they, well, this one of mine, well, boss , i don’t know how the mentor, that american, says

that you won’t believe it, they say that they have already sent planes across the ocean twice, it just stopped, they were supposed to prepare this... the meeting, that is, they haven’t arrived yet, not even the official delegation, the planes have already arrived twice, the vesskort arrived, you know, with their mistresses, lovers, for shopping , that’s what he said, they’re coming just for shopping, and there’s no hurry, you know, yes , so returning to this topic, that is, to compete with them in terms of money, that's it a completely useless business that has no prospects, but there is one important nuance that we must not forget, and which, in my opinion, is decisive, well, anyway. no matter how hard you try, you can of course manipulate the situation as you like and twist it, try to twist it in your direction, but it is an absolutely obvious fact for any unbiased person who has at least some places in the world that russia's aggression against ukraine is violation of all international rules and norms, all

principles, all coexistence, that this is absolutely pure terrorism, not covered, not concealed, and in principle, a person who wants to understand, he ultimately begins to understand it this way, and our task - here i absolutely agree, is to help these people understand, that is, to have appropriate materials, so that people can simply find them, read, read the ukrainian view of the problem, the ukrainian view of the situation, mr. peter, can i clarify, and you think that in a year and a half, well, those who wanted to understand, did not understand such elementary matters, i mean that it is necessary somehow support, nourish because periodically some new information appears, there are new fakes and so on, it's just a matter of concretely working in specific directions so that there is an appropriate ri, there is an appropriate level of information saturation, and one more point at which i would also like,

in this situation to emphasize, but it is clear that russia , well, they understand the same thing there, in principle, this whole situation, that is why russia's external propaganda is fundamentally and fundamentally different from, well , ugh, because it is internal russian, they are there they will defeat everyone, they will go to berlin, they will bomb london and so on, they have already defeated everyone, everything is fine, for washington, yes, but the external russian propaganda, it is completely different, there are no victory relations, nothing, external, for in external use they are as modest as possible, they don't need anything, they just want to agree with someone, somehow share, so that once again their interests, their interests are not forgotten. and yet there is this war, as relayed by various, newest american billionaires, who, judging by their rhetoricians are also victims of the relevant informational influence, so what... well , it’s still hopeless, it’s still necessary to negotiate somehow and the like, that is , they rebroadcast this kind of propaganda,

that is, they also try to balance it all in relation to to each society, to each specific reality, but on whom do they rely, well, all the same, with all their colossal resources, they rely on the marginals, if we take all pro-russian parties, all pro-russian politicians, various media persons in the west, well, who are these people, these are the people whom no one knew or saw at all, then the russians came to them with bags of money, with this money they became a little popular in the media, they began to actively appear there, to be published somewhere, they play on populism, they play on some key moments, and even somewhere they can get some result, but still their perception does not go further than marginals, and this is the most important fact, so it had to be so simple, we see that it is us we will talk in 20. no

i'm saying that it's simple, i'm not saying that it's simple, but i'm saying that we have many potential, normal, adequate allies, sir, i want to ask you here, we often hear that fox news is about the republican media, absolutely republican, trumpist and so on, but this week an interesting event happened, that his representatives came here to ukraine. how should we consider it in general, this is creating some kind of certain information shield, our protection, in which way we can consider this story, or it's like, you know, probing the soil, no, yes, i, i i think it's great that fox is coming to us, which spent a lot of time focusing on ukraine and published very ambiguous news about our country and the fact that the entire management came here, it actually tells me about two things, first , that they are more actively included in the topic of ukraine, and that it is important. and the second is that the ukrainian office of the president, the ukrainian political and military leadership, are increasingly considering trump as a possible next president of the united

states, and they also need to be worked with, and all of these, and all of these statements that i'm inviting trump to ukraine, let's discuss a peace plan, let's discuss some possibilities to end the war, is a continuation of this story of the republicans gaining more and more weight in the united states, and the sociology of the latter is very indicative of an unpleasant trend. for the current president, which is, but continuing the discussion about the media, and you can clarify why ukraine suddenly became interesting, for the republican media, well, because it is one of the key cards of the election campaign, if to look at what is happening today in the united states, as the issue of ukraine in the context of the allocation of money, in the context of the principle of ending the war, in the context of whether biden coped with the main foreign political threat of his presidency, and ukraine is such, maybe now it dilutes it a little. .. the effect of israel with its war, but ukraine is nonetheless key, but continuing the topic of the media, it seems to me

that we give a little weight to an adequate population, an adequate part of western societies, because unfortunately, in recent years, maybe there during the last year, unfortunately, they are not the ones who determine the political agenda, and everything is formed according to slightly different rules, i will tell you that for the supporters of trump, who said a few weeks ago that orban is the president of turkey and the difference between turkey and hungary is absolutely worthless for the trump voter and they didn't even pay attention to it, but the fact that such anti-ukrainian narratives are generated by the russian media in the united states and other countries is really what matters here there is only one nuance, in fact there is a wonderful book by brennan, it is called against democracy, he characterizes the voters there, and he says that the voters there are conditionally hobbits, they are the carriers of the so-called fan culture,

yes, that is, they are ours, they are always right, they are always, namely, football hooligans, yes, always for their club, they will fight there , and there are these, what are they called, vulcans, these are the ones who are rational, and he came to the conclusion that hooligans rule the ball , well, that's why, actually, well, yes, for this audience these media are oriented, this industry serves them, we have to marry hooligans, well, we do not marry them, well, because this, well, you understand, they do not change their views, yes, that is, roughly speaking, the problem is something else, and this also optimistic, so today we have optimistic views, the fact is that for that there is an establishment, for that there is a certain institutional memory, well, for that there is what is called the deep state, not deep fake, but deep state, that is, these are all the institutions of the state, for which there are huge ones the state apparatus, for this there are huge, well, expert environments, in order to

minimize the impact, roughly speaking, environments, right? at the stage of the transition to a practical political solution, one must understand that it is one thing to win elections and another thing to exercise the function of governance, and we have already seen many times when people came to power under the same slogans, and when they sat down in offices and chairs, well then they carried out governance in a slightly different way in the west, there especially in the west, because there are also mechanisms for restraining the counterbalance, that is, there does not work, we still have to create a coalition there, i think that we will talk about it in the second part, i would not make tragedies, well, from what is happening even in some european states, well, because there it is necessary to create a coalition, members coalitions have their views, even if, roughly speaking, not the coalition members and the opposition has its views and its roughly speaking interests, and if we are talking about the states, then the model of the united states is very often called a vetocracy, why? well, because there by and large

approval of any decision approves of a very high level. consensus, well, that is, it can always be blocked, so if anyone thinks that the republicans, and in particular the trumpists , well, you understand that today in essence the decision is being blocked by a small part, a small tiny part, we are already a little even tired of the small parts, i, but the funny thing is, if it turns around, there will be the same small part, only on the opposite side, you know, they will still have to find a compromise and an understanding, so, well, i wouldn't... it is clear that in no case can you say that yes, it will be everything by itself , follow the heavenly dau, no, you need to make efforts, but you know that, it kind of grows, too, well, wrong views, absolutely true, and here by the way, i would like to make a small remark about what valentin said, because there really is such a problem that we see, for example, in the usa, and europe, and many european countries, that a small

group of people blocks uses... the fact that there are certain flaws in the political system, which - i now, i'm not talking about that right now, i'm talking about the fact that russia felt it and the russian leadership felt it, that there are certain weak points in each of these systems, you can put pressure on this small point and get a result, and tactically , you can really get the result, but these geniuses and chess players, as their own propagandists call them, they do not take into account one point, that you can achieve another, huh. and correcting these defects and a similar option is also not excluded, i asked about this and yes in my question, i’m sorry, that’s all now i still want to clarify if you see, use your optimism today, thank god and the rest of the colleagues, can we expect that this disease will pass both there and in europe and cool down the heads of journalists and opinion leaders a little , yes, i can even advise them to read what they

should google i'm a roach, there were such people's tribunes in the ancient morima, yes, who also basically took the whole society hostage and welcomed any decision, i said that you will either agree to our demands, and you we will always pronounce veto, veto, yes , everything you know what they ended up with, what, they were beaten with benches, it seems to me that we should make some kind of selection of recommended books by valentyn galardska after the broadcast, i am leading to this, that petro correctly says that the system is not characterized by the presence of errors, but by the reaction... for mistakes, and if anyone thinks that when the european union was created, everyone was a product of the end of fukuyama history, everyone thought that now we are all white, fluffy, we will all hug and love each other and live in a world with pink ponies, and therefore, when they created this system, they did not foresee that orbán would one day appear in hungary, because hungary at that time was generally a model state that was the locomotive of democratization in central

and eastern europe, and so they created it, and here it turns out that opa, and that it was possible, and they are now desperately looking for mechanisms to get out, just like yesterday, listen, what could have been the disagreements in nato, when there was a confrontation between east and west and the whole world was teetering on the brink of, well, nuclear war, but when it's all gone, yeah, everybody's relaxed everyone began to think, maybe we will just blackmail everyone , like brothers in sin, and we will demand that our whims be satisfied, well, no, it will not be like that, that is, it will not be like that, the world today... is really on the threshold of a serious domestic political the transformation of both individual states in the process of making political decisions, and most importantly of international organizations, i would even say, institutional changes, not only at the level of some countries, but also at the level of the european union and nato, and when we hear a statement from scholz that we need move probably at the level of the european union from