[000:00:00;00] even anxiety, or even i would say so, anxiety, should i go to the basement, is it flying or not flying, could it be there, could it just be training, even, even like that, and it just happens that in the middle of the night something rattles and you you don't understand, is there some kind of emission, or is it really some kind of danger and you have to go and hide somewhere, of course, because they won't say anything about it so quickly, but literally every second there is information in the telegram channel that there is no, don't worry, it's like some idiot over there. did the salute go off? something else, that's all, you calmly go to sleep, instead of running from a high floor in slippers, but from blocking, yes, i am to the point that there is a benefit in telegram channels that we cannot do anything, no one does anything can oppose, on the other hand, mr. danilov is also right, because really, through these anonymous telegram channels , a lot of very strange information is thrown in, very dangerous and just

completely obvious channel of mr. so-and-so , we all know that this is his information, he said it, he wrote it, he is responsible for it responsibility, and if it is a tv channel, mykolaivskyi or someone else, well, who knows who is behind it, we can only guess, but do you think this mechanism will work, will it really be able to leave not... channels how to remove the danger from, well, from enemy interceptions, as a minimum, well, actually, you know this, as one of the developers of the media law, we are constantly criticized for not including telegrams in the media law, well, but there is one big but for that, you can enter, you can write any norm, beautiful with a bunch there detailing what, the only question is how, until we have a sound understanding, and how will we

influence a person if he... no, well , then we can actually do it this way, that is, if we have a telegram channel, any there, the wind from the east, conditionally, yes, let’s call it, well, here we go, well, that is, that the ukrainian regulator will turn to razkamnadzor, well, it’s hard for me to imagine that situation, yes, that is, we understand that blocking, blocking one channel in technology, is also very a dubious story, i think that the techies just, well, turn your finger around. temples, so here or we block the whole telegram as a platform, and we understand that it will not be 100% either, well, what happened to the same vkontakte classmates , they are not blocked completely, some studies show that there is still a small percentage, which are still on on these platforms, for the 10th year, they are gourmands, they are just gourmands, or they are very good , or they really like to troll russians, i do n't know, but they exist, and accordingly, when

we talk about the limitations of some technology. the very limitation, that is, we are talking about the fact that a certain bulk of people, because of the created obstacles, they're just, well, how people have always been lazy, we're all lazy, let's not be there , hide it, they'll just, well , look for some simpler mechanism, and why actually some messengers that have a sufficiently similar functionality don't shoot, because this moment login, at the moment of the user's first contact with the program, it is complicated, the user does not want, again , the person is lazy, yes, that is, he is trying to save energy, he is looking for the easiest way to achieve the goal, accordingly, if something similar to telegram appears on the market now , which will function no worse and better, maybe people will start switching to it, that is, it is important to understand, yes, well, telegram just did it, they approached it very technologically, that is, they thought very well about this entire user interface, how it is built, communication, creation channels,

all kinds of sticker packs. and so on, this is what really attracted, well, the primary core of the audience, yes , and then another grew around this core, and sorry, fast, just fast, beautiful, free and so on, yes, well, they are something there implemented some payment, well, the same thing, yes, we all understand that in the first years of existence, they were on investments anyway, and here is the question about investments, and therefore, it seems to me that the approach should be blocked now, it will not be accepted, i think that it is possible. but it will not be accepted, and then we have a question, what do we do when we have some dangerous things, we don't have a car, yes, in the legislation, a car is that a source of increased danger, accordingly, if you drive a car, you would be presumed to a greater extent a trespasser, yes, than a pedestrian, like deanonymize telegram channels, a very important topic, but we have to take a short break for a few minutes, let's get back to this

very important topic, stay with us. chevorons approaching victory, i am a uav operator, i save lives and teach others. i destroy enemy shaheda during aerial attacks. i am a driver. i am an infantryman. our tasks are different. the goal is one. choose your specialty and fill out the questionnaire on the national

guard website. we will win together. ukrainian gives freedom. the occupiers are pulling their tails, having heard about ukrainian cotton and cotton. and this is us luckily with 30. they did not mention, the ukrainian language is free. rules of a warm country, kitchen. thank you for boiling only the necessary amount of water. your care warms better than a cup of the strongest tea. let's beat the winter together. 1.1 i will continue the national telethon night watch with you talking about the information field, information security and the evolution of the ukrainian media. with us in the studio ihor roskladai, deputy director of the center for democracy and the rule of law, and we focused on the fact

that the deanonymization of telegram channels can to somehow save the information field from that flurry of incomprehensible information, which is not unverified and even in the conditions of war, we will say frankly harmful, but is it really possible to do it? well, look, it seems to me that we should approach here rather from the position of the journalist workshop as such, that is, we have a very old disease in ukraine, we do not have such a phenomenon, which in the west is called a press office, yes, that is, a press council, that is, this the body of self-regulation of journalists, not the media of journalists who actually analyze the behavior, issue... black marks to a certain extent, there they issue certificates and so on, that is, these phenomena arose in the west precisely under the threat that either you self -regulate, or the state comes, we will regulate all the time , well, in full, and in principle these tools exist in many countries, somewhere better, somewhere

worse , in the same britain there are currently two councils, one official, but without strong legitimation , the other unofficial, but with legitimation, well , that is, it is, it is not such that it is perfect everywhere, no, but none the less... exactly the phenomenon of self-regulation for the media, it is extremely important because you know best who is who on the market, well, an outsider can't, he doesn't know what 's there, for example, a journalist, in fact, is not a journalist, but a political technologist who sits on someone's salary, yes, he can't determine that, well, because it is impossible to know everything, and actually this self-regulation in any field, it can be in the field of the neck, it can be in the field of the auto industry, i don't know, or anything else, it is actually a very correct healthy mechanism. including, if you approach it very cynically and frankly, it is also a series that everyone supervises others so that they do not go out after certain mornings, yes, so that there is no cheating, and in fact, this mechanism could work in ukraine, including in relation to telegram, that is

, okay, by the way, we already have registration of telegram channels as online media, and this was quite a surprise for us as developers of the law, because we basically laid the mechanism, well, such series, well, if you really want, here is the third part of the article there... in my opinion, you you can go and register as an online member, and even telegram has its own verification mechanism, you can just stop, verification, it’s a little different story, it’s on all platforms, it’s the so-called blue tick, it’s a confirmation of authenticity that, for example, telegram-channel 1.1 or tsn-ua, it really belongs to tsnua, and not some peter, no there are houses, some villages there, because there really are clones and clones we know, the story was recently with the zaluzhnym, yes, when he already officially applied, and i destroyed such clones myself, not alone, because they are also constantly from 22- th year, here they breed, breed, breed, we report them, they breed again, well that is this is the same story, there are clones

of you as well, and including , for example, technologies that are very common among us on facebook, advertisements about payments appear, that social autumn has come, autumn has come, social payments will be renewed there, the screenshot goes. pbc ukraine, tsn, public, take the faces of our presenters, further, further you click, further you look, where does the link, link lead. mi, yes, that is, on telegram. and then you are simply dragged. some other news channel, that's at best, that's if they don't sell anything, some kind foflamcin, thank god, i have not come across foflamcin, but i have come across two technologies , or this is the advertising of telegram channels, which are multiplying like a whole, plus they themselves are still starting to link to other telegram channels, but one channel is my favorite , i'm watching him, yes, attention, cleaning the channel from dew, if you're a ukrainian , click on this, they lead to the same thing,

in fact, that is, you can call yourself a behemoth, yes, well, in principle, you will still end up on another channel , and the second story is more dangerous, unfortunately, this is where people go, these are really fraudulent payment sites , they are often quite well made, well, it’s beautiful there with all these fields, imitation, pictures are charged from the official websites of banks, but i know that in our country the private sector suffers the most mona, oschad, and reifeisen, these are the four banks that are the most popular, these are the ones that charge pictures and that's where the payouts are, and payouts from action , payouts from the un, payouts from nato, that's the funny thing, they're still luring you, then enter , well, a code card, yes, this code is there security from behind, well, you understand what is happening, unfortunately, it is constant and by the way , it goes in parallel with disinformation, that is, all the waves are either synchronized, or follow one another, that is, if there is a wave.

disinformation, i am waiting for a wave of fraudsters, phishing and all the rest, time just goes by in waves, and i think that it is, well, quite cross-platform, that is, there are certain nuances, for example, now on whatsapp, the trend of the offer of earnings has gone, and the numbers +62 +24, that is, there is some indonesia, there are some african ones countries and they communicate with you in the ukrainian language, they offer you to like, for example, one of these suggestions is to write positive posts on google maps, under companies, and there, that some event has happened or some company, that is, write that this the company is very good, they offer you some payments there, but our fact checkers have already investigated this whole story and found out that this is the withdrawal of money as well, well, this is your series, you have 2,500 dollars right now or 6 million there, you are promised urgently send such letters to them 20 or so years of these letters, and it still works the same way.

yes, but where is the future and the present of television in general, since the beginning of the war, a national telethon parallel to how telegram channels were gaining popularity there, for several months the marathon was really a source of verified information, people watched around the clock, it shows and statistics, and well, this is a fact, but 20 months have already passed there, and we see that the consumption of television has simply reached the national marathon as an informational, well, informational product, yes, nationwide, and the tv channels here found themselves in conditions where, well, actually , well, in the conditions of the war, we are forced to work in this format, the tv channels have lost their kind of uniqueness, they have all merged into one such

marathon, and we no longer have time, tv channels can't keep up with telegram, or youtube, or some other tik-toks , and let's call things by their names, a certain degradation is happening, well, come on , maybe this is exactly what a lot of technologies, old technologies, are going through, yes , well, some disappeared, that is, i think that the word telegraph-teletype should be said there, so let's start with wikipedia. and what is it, yes, and i think that now it is very strong, first of all, the war factor plays a role, because people are torn from their places, obviously, when you leave your city, you don't take the tv with you, well you will take the radio with you, usually the radio is even in the smartphone, and why the radio is growing now by the way is surprising, but the radio started to grow because people listen in the car, in this, they can do something and the radio is playing, that is radio, well

in all the old songs, yes, the same queen, yes, but with television, there will obviously be some kind of transformation, well, it is difficult for me to predict now, i would say that for sure we are all still moving into a non-linear format, that is , or it is some kind of hybrid, that is when the media is conventionally formed as a linear stream and non-linear, when you clicked in the catalog , selected the program, what you want and watch when you want, i want to watch it here and now, it’s like with tv series, people don’t want . people want to watch one episode once a week, as it was there 20 years ago turn on netflix and watch episode after episode, it's not netflix that makes you , yes, they just dump the whole season at once, and you already watch when you have time, you're there to hang around on the weekend and disconnect, you can turn on , those blessed times have passed, when the streets were empty because everyone was running, now people want to watch and consume information, here and now i want news, something is being talked about, i want to know instantly what happened, i think that if we play in competing with telegram is a losing proposition because you never win it

surpass in speed, efficiency and everything else that this means, which means that media should occupy a niche of expertise. that is, the media should go more into the format when you produce high-quality investigations, high-quality documentaries, high-quality, that is, something that is expensive, something that an ordinary telegramman will never do, because he simply does not have so many resources, knowledge, skills, and everything else, it doesn't have an editor, well, some there, if they are already powerful, they have some kind of small editor, but you will never break it, because the production of one, well even this investigation of nazar tokor's telegram, i know how much he did it, because i even. studied the script myself, that is, i understand that it took more than one month of work there, and therefore, when we talk about quality audiovisual content, telegram will never win here, but just television as a production itself, yes, the one who has the knowledge, i don't know there, starting with the lighting and ending with how to actually package this product,

it will spread, it's just that you become convergent, that is, you, in addition to the linear, now every media should have its own tiktok, telegram, the same, er, cut rails , youtube shorts, and so on, something is happening, but then the metaverse will come, there we will see how you will exist, but, but experience shows that the conversion of live television content, for example, transfer to youtube, it does not correspond to the format of people's consumption of information on youtube, in fact, in fact, now we are even recording with you, we should probably still run here, not streamers, but someone with smartphones to record us in a vertical format that these cutting got into youtube shorts, this is actually the moment that i also wanted to add , we have so expensive, this production is so large-scale , with the involvement of a large number of specialists, and you are outplayed by a person with a smartphone who writes something stupid, just very often

, not just any really valuable one, because we talked about the advantages, yes, of telegram , first of all its advantages, but very often there is just plain stupidity or plain lies, well , remember the cases, such very loud cases, well, especially regional media, when well, there were antasaminsk articles were selected, i can remember there , well, even though we did not always the medical council considered cases, there was a case in my opinion, it ’s the devil, there was an anti-semitic article, there were cases, my god, was it kherson or odesa, there was anti on the air , in my opinion, some anti-arab expressions are also quite harsh, that is, well, actually, well, we take this question much more broadly, we take the question of the quality of the professionalism of journalism, can journalism education, as it is now, continue to exist, that is, whether it shouldn't be like that, about what we are in

in principle, we have been saying for many years that a journalist should have some kind of basic education, technical, economic, biological, i don't know, to be able to distinguish what, what, who, who, who will excavate, paleontologist, archaeologist, or vice versa, right? this is a favorite meme precisely in this community, yes, that is, that they have a basic knowledge of the world in a certain profession and then journalism as a skill, as the ability to write, package, take videos, i don’t know what, well, that is, all these eyes are now cages, well in principle, even as a user, you already have a video editor here, know how use it, even if you are not a media person, yes, in principle, and these skills should be taught exactly, plus ethics, of course. plus standards, plus the ability to work, then you go to youtube with these standards , and there professor solovei sits and tells that putin is lying in the freezer and everyone has a serious expression on his face, a claim to education in general, because well, these are all the problems that we are talking about with you now,

they are beginning, you see, professor solovei, he is really a professor, you know what is most interesting, you don't delve into education there, he really is a historian, again the question of self-regulation in the fight of academic education, yes, that if a professor starts to be stupid, then surely the community should gather and say that this is not ethical, this is not professional, we are you for example po, and he was released from mgu, there is no one to tell him , it doesn't matter, but he tells so interestingly, but he tells so interestingly, moreover, people think that they are real. now they will find out something that all these boring official media are silent about, because they, they have a conspiracy, they banned, but now we will find out everything, as it really is, and now about professor nightingale, we will all see, and you know how in this anecdote, when two rams are talking to each other, they say, don't you think that

the shepherd and the dog conspired, well, you again with your conspiracy theory, in fact, look, we are now affected by a whole string of problems that drag one after the other, well, when you are engaged in reforms, you see it from the other side, yes you, you start to do one reform, here you connect this, connect that, and you are like that, my god, that's it the whole country, it is called the whole country. it is necessary to reform, because, well, look, we introduced at one time access to public information, a tool that was first of all used by you, and, that is, because you started submitting requests, then activists and a certain number of citizens, and now on this the public - on this open access journalistic investigations, and exposes and cases of nabu and everything, everything, but look, i taught a lot, by various officials, there and even judges, and i am very interested to see how they see this problem and find these problematic points, and what they saw is that yes, very often the infrastructure, well, works a little wrong, for example, we absolutely did not provide by law that the consideration of appeals is there, or

if we provide access, then access must be signed for the minister, well, it’s a little bit different, it’s not that, but it’s not our sphere anymore , it’s actually the sphere of how our system of state power is built, how the manual of record keeping works, and so on, and we are beginning to understand, that this is our field, it is written normally, we still have one of the best laws... of europe, in fact, it is also in the world there, in my opinion, in the 17th place in terms of text quality, but when you get involved in practice, you come across that it turns out that instead of having just the responsible head who signed the department, no, for some reason this request has to come to the deputy minister or to the head of the body and he has to sign so that, well, this is how it works, because it is unchanged, and that's when we take all these conspiracies , this is also a matter of trust, we are talking now about people's trust. to power it has changed, now, well, that is, i still see, well, a certain positive dynamic, especially when there is danger, ukrainians here are very good

at uniting, in the face of external threats, we have always been able to unite, even if in youtube kill, when the war is over, youtube will immediately throw you the next phrase of the tarot card, that's all, after that you, you can attract representatives of the pentagon, british to the studio there. anyone, but now we will spread out on the maps and see that there will be a nuclear war in may, i checked, yes, well when you download, you look for search queries on youtube that are popular in order to throw some tags there, yes, then you see such things, yes, in trends, yes, tarot cards, well, actually, this is not only ukrainian history , that is, i look, well, i have polish acquaintances there, i sometimes see that they are. well, for example, my favorite thing , which is already more or less invisible in our country, was a post on facebook that

tomorrow facebook will announce something, and if you don't post this post, you don't allow facebook there on use your images, then blah blah blah, so beautiful, very such a thing, i recently met her in polish, she used to speak ukrainian here, before that she used to speak english, and you are people, yes people are people in principle each country, well, again, this is a question of what, for example, finland became very famous , yes, they became famous for the fact that they started medioliteracy from the age of six months, the babies are six months old, and they start using some simple toys read media literacy, and in fact, this and that is not also, media literacy should not be perceived as a separate such discipline, it is essentially our daily habits, it is how to go, excuse me, wash hands, yes, it is desirable to wash clothes sometimes. yes, it is desirable to use perfume in the subway, well, this is what we are taught from childhood, and the actual filtering of information, it is now becoming for us, must

become absolutely the same habit from early childhood, because information has increased, well, in times, remember our childhood, yes, that we had black and white television there, yes, in we had some newspapers there, then records, books, well, magazines, everything, and this volume was very limited when... we had this boom, yes, when fiber optic networks started to appear in our country in the 2000s, when the internet became very accessible, we received an increase in information not just once, but probably tens of times, and on the one hand we have already learned to live in it somewhere, but on the other hand we are constantly under this influence, and by the way, emotional influence, and the russians against us play precisely on emotions, that is, they exhaust us with anxieties, and understanding in which we state that we are nervous , sleepless, tired, they will mass us every once in a while within 48 hours, yes, or for example , corruption is starting, this is the time they have

several favorite topics that they disperse. everything that concerns mobilization is help from the outside, we have been abandoned, the war cannot be won, everything is in trouble, weapons will not be given, support is decreasing, yes, it is necessary to negotiate, this is actually professor solovei, i literally quoted it to you, well, i can see it from advertising that goes through facebook, the latest trends were, how much does freedom cost, what is it how much money is there, how much was allocated, and that we freed up only 300 km there, and that we now have the most expensive land in europe due to the actual challenge and they are constantly trying to devalue it, sow treason, and they are not only acting on ukraine. when israel started, the advertising went immediately to israel , in israel there was also a series of such, excuse me, i will use the word, i hope they will not ban, that the khokhlas bought up all the water in the stores, which

was in russian, and the advertising went to germany and france , there are their own narratives, there is more about arab narratives, in france there was more financial aid , that we already helped ukraine enough, now israel needs to be helped, that is, they targeted each country, and it was at the same time, yes, that is, they told ukraine that they abandoned us, because now israel will take everything, we also had this infographic, how many weapons they gave to israel, how much they gave us , they constantly spread it, that is, this external support once, that is, in fact, in conclusion, the main, main advice in... ukrainians in this in this variety and you have to learn to navigate the variety of different information yourself, medigrams, at least ask questions, after all, where does this information come from, i.e. if you get information that what is from our anonymous sources, and in the media in journalism there is a concept of so-called whistleblowers, that is, this

well, their kidnappers are called whistleblowers, that is, they are those people who, contrary to their official duties, report: some information that is important to society, for example, it is being hidden that an ecological accident has occurred, yes, he goes and tells it in public, although he can be blamed for this, because he is there, for example, but behind this is his name, and not like this, behind this is his life to a certain extent, in our country, however, very often anonymous sources are used, which, in fact, we know that they are somewhere over there on fronze, probably in moscow, and these sources actually work to make us quarrel among ourselves, first of all, and we see that in reality society is now more relaxed. therefore, friends, we consume information responsibly, we question everything, especially if it concerns anonymous information information from anonymous sources and very emotional information about what may not actually be true, thank you very much for an incredibly interesting and important conversation, ihor roskladai, deputy director of the center for democracy and the rule of law, with you was maria vasyliva, i'm yevhen plinsky, night

guard at meetings on the air. chevorons, approaching victory, this year's winter promises to be difficult again, the enemy is targeting targets. so we have to prepare for the most difficult scenarios. keep warm, insulate houses, it will be difficult, but do not lend fighting spirit to ukrainians. consider an additional safe source of heat. everyone should be responsible this winter. invite your relatives, acquaintances from the regions that have suffered destruction, together it is warmer and more fun. the best way to warm up

is to engage in light sports, because our energy is enough to overcome. any cold weather, stock up on flashlights and power banks, charge them and stock up on food, water and warm clothes. warm up deliciously, fragrant tea or a hot dish gives warmth from the inside, and calories are not superfluous in winter there are make friends with your neighbors, it is easier to beat the enemy in a group, and even more so to winter. and most importantly, support the zsu. thanks to them, we have the opportunity to meet this winter. and while the washcloths. nom, neither enemies nor the cold are scary, we hold on to each other, we will overcome the winter together, a warm country, ukrainian gives freedom, even in the letters our determination and defiance is hidden, who else puts more than just a dot