[000:00:00;00] 24 people, how they were chosen and why such a division appeared, in fact , only staff officers were among the defendants, and those combat officers of the wehrmacht turned out to be witnesses, why they were not tried, this tribunal, the first neubor trial, it took place right above the political top of nazi germany, that is, over the most important political and war criminals, therefore the analysis of the crimes of all generals, headquarters, etc. , was not conducted there, for this there were subsequent neuber tribunals, which are rarely mentioned in our country, unfortunately, but it is necessary remember that there were then as many as 12 tribunals that were held in the american zone of occupation, held in accordance with the american judicial system, and there in particular

there was a trial against generals, there was also a trial against entrepreneurs, industrialists, against wilhelmstrasse, that is, let's say, officials were not of the highest rank, or second echelon, so to speak, against the members of the groups, this was one of the most resonant processes, because the anzac groups were the ones that were directly responsible for the extermination of the civilian population in the temporarily occupied territory, in particular there is also the issue of the woman's ravine. the executed paul blobel, who directly commanded the ondrkom team that exterminated the jews of babinomuruev, that is, at this very first tribunal, was tried and convicted, it was politicians, in theory there should have been hitler, there should have been himmler, there should have been goebbels, but they all imposed themselves hands, as you know, that's why those who remained alive and were arrested, like goering, keitel, kaltenbrunner, they

spent... half of the defendants. it is also about not just condemning these leaders managers, and to tell what their fault is, to show it to society , to convince them that it really was so, and it is justified to show all this, to explain, that is, the process started, that then under aden, denazification, and germany achieved very great success in this, thanks to systematic work, without this it would not be possible to change... the internal situation in germany, people believed for many years, or, if they did not even fully believe, then on autopilot they continued to live and act according to those rules, which he imposed on them hitler, and here after such a colossal defeat, after the capitulation, everything had to be reviewed, everything completely and reconsidered, to talk about it, it took a very long time, and is it possible to somehow track the reaction of society to this process inside

germany, that is? at this time they have several zones of occupation, in fact the country is destroyed, are there any memories left, how did they react? there are reminiscences, partially published, of those people who lived at that time, and, of course, there are many mentions of the politicians who acted, it is clear that not everyone could be satisfied, that is, part people with the collapse of this monster of the nazi regime, they lost positions, jobs, salaries and had to adapt to new conditions, it is always not easy, that is, people lost and it caused them dissatisfaction, on the other hand there was a large part of people who understood that this it is necessary to do, that germany must be renewed, purified, and this is not inevitable, then these people still felt some, well, probably more positive emotions, that things went in the right direction, we know how germany lived after the war, all

the country was broken. that is, colossal economic problems, destroyed enterprises, after the bombing of the americans, many cities lay in ruins, and then already, when the reconstruction began, well, maybe it just united the germans, who with the help of the same american help, and with the help of the fact that they rallied , then they themselves began to rebuild the country anew, the well-known german mentality, when everyone sticks together and everyone tries very hard to achieve a good result. perhaps this mentality helped them relatively quickly improve their standard of living and further to reach the level we are currently seeing in germany is very high. why was there no attempt to indict, for example, the italian fascists or other allies of hitler, if the intent was to condemn the ideology.

the approach was that only germans would be imprisoned in newberg, this is germany, which means nazi germans would be imprisoned there, nazis, of course, german, and in relation to the allies, italy, hungary, romania, slovakia, and they were tried in their own countries, he handed over there. it is to the local new governments that were formed after the overthrow, according to these pro-nazi or pro-fascist governments, and accordingly they were trusted with this judiciary, that is why they were convicted and executed in their own countries, by the way, such as antonescu in romania, the romanian de facto dictator, such as ferenc salasi in hungary, also in the last period of the war, the hungarian dictator , the same thing happened in slovakia. with jozem tiso , the essentially slovak president, dictator during the second world war. you can say that finland avoided such a scenario somewhat, because finland came out of the war in 1944 and

declared it in germany. finland is the last year from september 1944 to may 1945 fought against germany, the so-called loveland war. and in fact, it ended up as a kind of buffer in post-war europe. between the western world and the eastern world, and for a certain time even mannerheim remained in power, that is, they did not have such a wide trial, and there was also the tokyo tribunal, the tokyo tribunal, well , this is also a practically different story, it is the far east and it was there that the japanese were tried criminals responsible for crimes mainly in the far east, in the pacific region, in particular in the war against china, there starting from even in the 31st year, when the japanese occupied anjuria, and in the 37th year, when the japanese began a full-scale invasion of china. and were there attempts in this process to blame the soviet union, which is actually on an equal footing, and helped

germany and incited this war. yes, the fact is that everyone knew very well that a number of crimes were committed in the soviet union during the second world war, and it was precisely at these conferences that took place in 43-44 and 45 that the allies tried to raise these issues, that is, england , and france, and the united states knew very well what, for example, happened to polish officers in the fall of 1939, when the second world war began, they were taken to the soviet union and some of them were destroyed, and stalin sometimes allowed himself to make statements at such unofficial receptions, where diplomats approached him , they asked where the officers were, so whether it is a joke or not, but he told one of the diplomatic representatives that they went somewhere deep in the soviet union in the direction of siberia and disappeared, that was approximately his phraseology, well this

you know, this is bullying, and what bullying is, look, anna drowned, played with a grenade, blew up a plane, this is formal bullying, it is the fate of thousands of people, thousands of people have disappeared, and making statements like that, well, it's just terrible. and therefore, of course, both the united states and great britain, they would very probably want this tribunal to consider such issues as, for example, the fate of the polish officers, what happened to them, and how it all happened, well, but it turned out so that it was necessary to agree, agree, had to, and each side rather harshly defended its geopolitical interests, even then stalin and his entourage can be seen in the soviet union...somewhere they made a decision for themselves that it was necessary to surround the soviet union with this or that block of states that would be under its geopolitical control, that is, it is

meant to put its own the power of poland, czechoslovakia, yugoslavia, romania, hungary, these countries, and this would be such a security belt around the soviet union, which would make all further negotiations with the west much easier for him, and of course, he did not want to go to what concessions, and that is why all these attempts were blocked, although the poles constantly reminded about it and, of course, wanted to figure it out, but only then, only much later, it became possible, a process that lasted from 40, the fall of 45 to the fall of 46- th year, ended with a sentence, who received what sentences from the 24 people who ended up on the dock, well, the explanatory material was prepared by my editor serhiy shenkarchuk, let's see. thank you, yulia, 12 out of 24 people were sentenced to death by hanging. hermann goering, in fact the second the person after hitler, the commander-in-chief of the air force of the third reich.

ernst kaltetbrunner - chief of the main security office, joachim von ribbentrop - minister of foreign affairs, wilhelm keitel, chief of staff of the supreme command of the armed forces. alfred rosenberg, flight minister of the eastern occupy. the governor-general of occupied poland, wilhelm frick , the re-minister of the interior, julius streicher, the editor-in-chief of the dersturmer weekly and one of the key propagandists of nazi germany. frit sauckel, responsible for the organization of the system of forced labor in the third reich. arthur zeiss inquart, flight commissioner of the netherlands, alfred yodel, chief of the operational directorate of the supreme command of the armed forces. adolf hitler's personal secretary, martin bormann, was convicted in absentia, because he probably died in the spring of 1945. three more received life sentences. rudolf hess, one of hitler's closest associates, is his deputy in the party. walter funk, vice-minister

of economy, president of the rijksbank, eric röder, commander-in-chief of the naval forces until the age of 43. four more convicts received different terms: 20 years in prison for vienna gauleiter baldor von schirach and hitler's personal architect albert speyer. 15 years - the protector of bohemia and moravia konstantin von neurath. 10 years - karl dönitz , commander-in-chief of the naval forces of the third reich in the last two years of the war. three accusations. they were acquitted, well, actually, three people were acquitted, who were they and why were they acquitted, they were accused somehow, and here they are just letting them go, they acquitted, for example, the propagandist friche, they acquitted hjalmar schacht, who was a financier, was acquitted, von papen, also a diplomat, that is, in principle, the approach was such that first of all it is necessary to condemn... the most influential politicians, and

these three are politicians or figures who made decisions of the first rank, in principle did not belong, however, later, after this tribunal, they were transferred to other tribunals, other trials, they then received verdicts and only in their specific cases, which, let's say, did not belong to the competence of the international military tribunal, but plus the work of lawyers, yaka was able to remove from them accusations of starting a war, crimes against peace,

crimes against humanity, etc. this is nonsense, it doesn’t happen like that, well, myth after myth comes out, such a thing did not happen and could not happen , let’s talk more about the executions, because those people who were sent to the scaffold were executed by hanging, but hering did not get to the execution, although he the body was there and then taken to the gesphot, he poisoned himself in his cell, from which we can conclude that he poisoned himself while in prison? all of them, these figures, of course preferred not to have them hanged, because it was considered very shameful, but still better to be shot, or indeed some such death by poison, it is, well, i don't want to say, more honorable or prestigious, but at least not so shameful, and therefore obviously, hering , as a strong-willed man, he thought about it, he thought about it from the beginning.

in order to avoid this hanging, well, there were obviously some agreements, and as a result of the fact that he managed to eat this tinder, he did not live to be hanged, it did not change anything in fact, it was only for him personally, as a person who was strong-willed, ambitious, well, maybe at the end of his life it was a little easier to realize that he was not hanged, but that he died from poison, that's all, but... the result was the same, or did they submit any requests for clemency or for the replacement of the method of execution, did they accept it, their fate, well, as far as i remember, the lawyers wrote many petitions, and while there were petitions, there were also petitions for clemency, but not all of them , some did not write them in principle, some did, and he requested that the sentence be commuted to

execution by firing squad, but this was refused because execution by firing squad was not provided for in this tribunal at all. returning to the ussr, could it be condemned, at least in theory, and should it be judged, the crimes of the allies, because now russian propagandists often appeal to the fact that it was a crime of the united states, the bombing of hiroshima and nagasaki, or the bombing of peaceful german bridge. was it necessary to judge them? in general, during the war, the second world war, everyone committed war crimes, it's no secret to anyone, but then again. it was the trial of the victors, and this tribunal was gathered to try german criminals, there a priori they could not even consider cases about the ussr, nor about the responsibility of the usa or britain, although of course there are also many questions for them. the soviet union committed mass crimes during the war.

katyn is just the most famous of them, and the mass deportations of the population, let's say, for the example of the crimean tatar people. forced eviction on false charges of collaborationism. the entire nation cannot be accused of collaborationism. this, this is nonsense, it does not happen that all people from babies to very old people are collaborators. this is absurd. the executions, which were numerous during the second world war, did not actually stop stalin's repressions in the soviet union. mass rapes in the territory where the red army entered. in general, this is one of those topics that modern russia is even afraid to touch, immediately saying that such a thing did not happen and could not happen, because how come the red army, the liberator of europe from nazism, could commit such crimes, and the allies, the bombing of civilian quarters,

they specifically set the task that not only military objects should be bombed, but also civilian quarters should be specifically struck in order to destroy the working people of people who are simply able to work on the german economy, in this way to undermine germany's ability to resist, and not only germany, they bombed italy, and hungary, and romania, and bulgaria, other countries, that is, all this happened, and of course no one condemned them, because they won the war, and the tribunal was not created to try them, and there was quite a lot of information about the evils of the soviet union, which it committed, obviously, these were hopes that in the future it would be possible to organize and conduct something like the nuremburg tribunal, but over the activities of the communist party and over the fact that the soviet union committed, as it turns out, no less crimes than nazi germany,

but for this it was necessary to carry out work, it was necessary to organize everything, and history has shown that here we live in the 21st century, which this case... never came to pass, because a lot of things happened and it turned out that the historical process went, well, the union itself gradually went down the path of collapse and decline, and in modern ukraine, we know, a lot of material has also been collected, and if lawyers would like to take it up, then it is quite possible to arrange the materials and hold a tribunal over this particular period, the soviet period, and accuse... the communist party of crimes against its people. we hope, perhaps, at least, after the end of this war, it will be possible to condemn this ideology, which degenerated into so-called racism, well, but returning to the ukrainian issue and at the nuremburg trial, was the issue

of uunup, or even the halychyna division, considered at that time, which the russians continue to speculate about to this day? no, of course they did not consider it and could not consider it, because these are ukrainian movements and they tried the germans. in the materials of the neuber process, there are isolated references to oun tau, but these references, practically none of them, characterize them in any negative way, on the contrary. there is, for example, a document that was presented about the order that existed in the 41st year, the order of the nazis to destroy the people of bandera, without trial or investigation. after they switched to an underground struggle against the nazi occupation in banderivka, from the summer of 1941, the nazis chose such a tactic: arrest, interrogation and then the destruction of a person without trial and investigation, and the only such moment is very resonant, it was in the materials provided,

of course, by the soviet side, colonel abwehr erwin stolz, who was arrested by the soviets and was sitting in moscow. they gave his testimony about what would happen, in front of himself the invasion of the ussr into germany, there was an agreement between abwehr and bandera, that the people of bandera should organize an uprising in ukraine immediately during the invasion of the germans, in order to destroy the soviet rear, the nearest rear of the red army, but there are immediately several questions about these testimonies , stolze himself was not present at the trial. his testimony was provided by the soviet side, which is clearly interested in having it heard while sitting in casemates in moscow. we perfectly understand the methods by which these testimonies

were obtained, or were simply falsified, this could also happen, stolze himself, accordingly, also disappeared, as they say, in endless water, he was shot in 1952, well, according to the official version, with regard to the galicia division, it was a division, i always emphasize, it is correct to say not a sss division, and a division of sss troops, or german wafenes. troops, that is, this is a division that was under the sss. the very ones who served in this division could not be members of the sss, because they were not, well, according to nazi ideology, they were not considered aryans, and to join the organization of the sss, to accept them there, simply no one would want them accepted, the national military formations that were created under the sss were created from different peoples, and then the approach of the winners in their he consisted in the fact that they tried already specifically suspected people, for specific

crimes committed by them. therefore, the question here should be considered on a specific level, did the servicemen of the halychyna military division commit war crimes or did they not commit them? as of today, there are no facts proven in court, on the contrary , there was a famous commission in canada. 85th year, which, well, its conclusion, let's say, was that at its disposal there are no proven facts of war crimes committed by servicemen of this division, we can add that about a thousand former servicemen of this division, after the war, when they were in prisoner of war camps, british and american, they bought into the promises of soviet agents, they say , come back home to the ussr, we will give you amnesty there, everything will be fine, and well, about a thousand returned, this is of course a minority,

an absolute minority, but they returned, and there, almost all of them were condemned according to stalin's legislation. you said at the beginning that the purpose of the tribunal was to finally condemn nazism, do you think it succeeded? in general, yes, in general it was successful, and everyone knows about this tribunal, in fact, we have heard about it since childhood, there was always a lot of information about it. so often it was connected with such mythologising, it was inflated so much that all criminals were convicted, all were

punished, in reality, firstly, not all were convicted, and secondly, they did not succeed in the ussr even to publish a full corpus of materials and it was not possible to look at it, but only a piece was published, that is, myth after myth comes out, but it sounded, and still, here is the main idea, it was achieved, that this should not happen again, and this is really . this is correct, it should have been, it is another matter that the ussr, well, he really wanted to tie the ukrainian nationalists there, or the galician division, to these nazi crimes, and he did not succeed, no matter how hard they tried, with they crawled through all the cracks, you know, such strays, white threads, well, it wasn't, no there was this, and this issue was not considered, and therefore we followed the path of mythologizing lies, and our communist party here in ukraine. that in the 1990s and 2000s they constantly said: they were convicted without providing any facts, without providing any quotes, because they

could not provide them, that is, they openly spread otaku lies, myths, because the materials themselves were not published in full volume, unfortunately, this is the problem that it has not been issued in ukraine, of course it should be done, because for ukraine this process, it must be said right away, it was very important, after all, ukraine is one of the states that suffered the most, and millions of people died in the red army, and more than a million jews in the holocaust, how many were deported by forced labor, the civilian population died, it is already difficult to count how many died in our country or 8 million, or even more than 8 million. therefore, ukraine is one of the countries that suffered the most, and the condemnation of this regime is fundamentally important for ukraine, for ukrainians, so that this never happens again in our country, it is unequivocally and very i'm glad that it is, well i guess it was successful, i think it was successful, because no one here in ukraine justifies

hitler and his activities, well, about mythologizing, you as the ambassador of history without myths on ukrainian youtube, when you were researching the topic of the nurbron tribunal, you have several issues, what was the biggest myth you managed to bust? well, this is just one of those myths about ukraine, that , for example, the bander movement, oun, and first of all, of course, the division of halychyna were condemned, and another very popular myth is that the nazi sss organizations were condemned, sd, gestapo. in fact, as the verdict said, groups of individuals were condemned, but not all organizations as a whole. that is, the approach was specific, based on the crimes committed by specific individuals. because in the structure of each, both the sss there and the gestapo, different people worked, for example, there is the head of the gestapo, müller, who, by

the way, was also considered missing at that time. disappeared, and now it seems that german historians have proven that he also died in may 1945 in berlin, and there is a simple employee who simply translates papers, or something like that again after all, she is a waitress in some of their departmental canteens, they all work there in this structure, but the approach should be differentiated towards these people, accordingly , we hope that the tribunal on those crimes that russia... in ukraine will also be held as soon as possible after the end of the war and all the guilty will be brought to justice, because well, we all definitely need justice for what we are going through, thank you very much for this paragraph, vlalen maraev, co-author, host of the youtube channel history without myths and oleksandr ryschuk, candidate of historical sciences, leading researcher of the department of modern history of ukraine at the institute, thank you for being with us,

be sure to subscribe to our youtube channel and youtube channel colleagues, it is not a sin for me to advertise, because let ukrainian youtube flourish, it has ukrainian content to be more, so be sure to like , be sure to comment, because that's how youtube works, reactions are needed, thanks for being with us and stay with us too, see you soon. chevorons approaching victory,

assault troops, bro. kingship real warriors, here they gain confidence and defeat enemies, they are fighters who know how and like to take risks. glory to the cheap, invincible soldiers paratroopers, glory, the winter of this year promises to be difficult again. the enemy is targeting critical infrastructure facilities. so we have to prepare for the most difficult scenarios. keep warm, insulate the houses, it will be difficult, but the fighting spirit cannot be borrowed from the ukrainians. consider an additional safe source of heat. everyone should be responsible this winter. invite relatives you know from the regions who suffered destruction. it's warmer and

more fun together. the best way to warm up is to engage in light sports. because our energy is enough to overcome any cold. stock up on flashlights and power banks, charge them and stock up on food, water and warm clothes. warm up deliciously, fragrant tea or a hot dish provide heat, and calories are not superfluous in winter. make friends with your neighbors, it is easier to beat the enemy in a group, and even more so to winter, and most importantly, support the armed forces. thanks to them we have the opportunity. this winter to meet, and while we united, we are not afraid of enemies or the cold, we hold on to each other, we will overcome the winter