[000:00:00;00] term, women not only give birth to us, they revive us, so alfred hitchcock, the director of many such tough urban films, once said that in my childhood there was an episode when i did something wrong and my father wrote a note and asked me to i took him to the police, i'm his friend, that friend read that he put me in the cell for half an hour, during those half hours i was so scared that i 've been trying to pour out this fear for half an hour with these films all my life, and he wasn't joking, we don't really understand how it is spend a month there in prison, for someone who has not faced this, it is scary, even if there are some who treat you more liberally, so i would not judge for this in any way, that is why he made such a decision, because he would have died, it is obvious, in

the camps you can to imagine what is that, well, we know what the camps are, they are not american prisons, and he would just choose life , i'm sorry, he had, he had a sentence, he was sentenced to 5 years in the camps and 5 years of exile, so he wouldn't, he would not have lived that long, and therefore we must respect the choice of a person who brought and did a lot for ukraine things that would not have happened if he had died... in the camps themselves, and look what happens, that is, this is a compromise, this is a compromise, i remember a poem by iryna zhelenko, iryna zhelenko, a wonderful poet, ukrainian, from kyiv, he, she wrote that the whole , intellectual, intelligentsia of kyiv and lviv, where he appeared, everyone gathered around him, everyone loved him very much, and for his crystal honesty and subtle emotions, as she

writes, was in love with dzyuba. and look, she dedicated ivanna jubi to him, she dedicated a poem to him, that's it iryna zhelenko's lines, dirt, saliva, blood and piety on the parquet floors and sofas, here ion's forerunner with gentle eyes baited, and it turns out that ivan dzyuba, the leader of a generation with whom everyone was in love, has already been rejected by this generation, because mrs. martha mentions in the film that when he came out of it. zo, then he was met only, she says, kochur, yes, a tobacconist, grihyr, and a few other people, all the rest went to the other side, and some people, people simply condemned him, the ukrainian intelligentsia, yes, in particular the slychniks, in particular stus, stus wrote terrible words about ivan dzyuba, and on the other hand, some people were afraid of him

as if he was a person disloyal to the authorities, like you, answer for yourself about this compromise, where is the limit of compromise, now there was a story, i also prepared it, wrote it out for myself, so there was a story when last year, literally last year, the kyiv city council was approached by the kyivans who wanted bazhana avenue, amrosia buchma street, pavlo tychyna street and leonid pervomaiskyi street . in kyiv was renamed because these people cooperated, collaborated with the soviet regime, where for you is the limit of collaboration with the soviet regime, by the way, mykola bazhan was such a telling episode, les stanniuk once told me about him, this was a club of creative youth in the early 60s, and i say i invited the

, mykola platanovych, he says he left the stage, sitting in the hall... young people, and suddenly, they, the whole hall began to chant, well, so quietly, as if such an inner voice, a person is standing in the sunny kremlin, well, the movie is famous, the famous poem is desirable about stalin, dedicated to stalin, and i say, well, it is clear that how bazhan perceived it, the younger generation openly says, you are a traitor, you served in the katyusha, where i... you are a servant of the devil, but bazhan endured it and continued, les stepanovich told me , he says, he spoke, spoke, spoke, and began to convince us that a great poet was desirable, tychyna, just a genius, and even desirable, as for me, a genius of poems, this is the main thing for us, dovzhenko, who also went on huge

compromises, you understand, but they kept no... over ukraine, this is necessary, this is the main thing, and not not compromises, and comp compromises allowed them to survive and survive them, their muse, that is. the main thing is that this muse was ukrainian, yes, she made compromises with the communist and totalitarian system, but if everyone agreed with yes, vasyl stus had the right to say that to ivan dzyuba, because he was in the constabulary, he was all his life put it, he had the right, but most of the people who were sitting under their warm apartments did not have such a right to talk to the jubi, because they had no deeds in their souls, and these are deeds, and jubi, there were deeds, and how many there were, by the way, addressed to dzyuba, you never talked about it once, not once, but recently, on the anniversary of ivan mykhailovych, oksana pokhlivska wrote

a brilliant text, and she replied to those who are now in their eighties, who began to say that they say that the 60s fell silent, that they didn’t fight, that it’s already at the turn of the 90s and zeroes, they say, where are you, the 60s, here, where, ivan juba wrote, how much, he’s a workaholic, by the way, he’s a human being, he, when they asked about the jubilee, he wrote a whole anti-jubilee manifesto, he hated anniversaries, hated because they take time, they take away time of work, he worked for ukraine, for ukraine, he is like the minister of culture. er, the first minister, well, the second minister of culture, who laid the beginnings of cultural policy, strategy, something that still does not exist, absolutely, and so on, that is, he is a person who did, imagine what, let's imagine

what this everything would have happened, the compromise was justified, but if after this compromise, to put it roughly, ivan mykhailovych got angry, oh, then we would say, well, then there would be no talking about what and about whom. oh, but he, he overcame it and he did so much for ukraine that god forbid his critics, even if he will do a hundredth of it. you already started talking about how brave he was, and he really was, i read somewhere that he, he appeared at some plenum as a writer, or somewhere, he said, and what do you think, you will lie here, and i will to be silent, and so, he did not remain silent on september 4, 1965, by the way... we will now talk about what happened at the premiere of parajanov's film shadows of forgotten ancestors, but it is interesting, i think, absolutely a brilliant move, was in the film ivan and

marta, by serhiy bukovsky, serhiy bukovsky for such glue, as a basis, takes two sirens , a siren that sounded on september 4, 1965 in the cinema of ukraine, where shadows of forgotten ancestors premiered and where dzyuba was the first to speak and said that today is a tragic day, today is a happy day, but also a tragic one, and began to list who was arrested from ukrainian intellectuals then, and in response to this, the administration of the cinema of ukraine, they turned on the siren, with this is where serhii bukovsky's film about ivan begins dzyuba, and with that he ends the film, but this siren already sounds later, during the russian-ukrainian war, in the first months. 2022, what did you, when you first heard about what happened in the ukraine cinema in 1965, you know, when i heard already in the early 90s, about what happened in

1965 year when you found out about it, no , well, in 1965 i was still a schoolboy in alexandria and i definitely didn't hear about it, well, you understand that information was blocked at that time. any, well, they knew about it in kyiv, so i'm somewhere already in some third or fourth year, someone, someone told, well, about porodzhanov, there are a lot of all kinds of things, well , including told, and you know how there, how it was, how it ended for paradzhanov, in general, this whole story with this protest, for parodzhanov, well then, nothing, ivan mykhailovych said, i was terribly afraid that parodzhanov would say, well, what did you give me the premiership, with such a political gesture, he says, it's not that he wasn't offended, it wasn't that he wasn't angry , he says, he had the impression that he was so excited

that's what he loved, but only give paradzhanov, paradzhanov already liked such sharp , non-standard actions, especially related to him, and he says that after the film, he took marta and i by the hands and led us to his home, and until morning we he had them, because, well, he was afraid that we, well, not us, but ivan would be arrested, well, they were not arrested, then, by the way, marta volodymyrivna tells me humorously, there are versions, he also says... he says, that he walked all night with ivan khreshchatyk and he, well, years later , all kinds of things, but it was like that, and it was, sometimes they say, really, that this is the first maidan, that is, there, next to the maidan, the deceased is unfortunately not the ukraine cinema, because let's hope that it will be revived, after all, but it was an action, this, this is a brave man, a man boldly speaking about a statement.

declares what was talked about only in the corners, eh, what he said at first, he said at first that there are arrests, then chornovil, so he joined in and said that those who are against the arrests, stand up, and stood up, by the way, very few people , and well, it couldn’t be any other way, is it the 65th year, the 65th year, they say that somewhere around 700 people are in the hall, 560 people stood up, well no more, yes, no more, and that's a lot more, as for those times, so? that pops up and not everyone knows, then stus said , the same word, yes, then in between series, somehow during the break stus said, there was also no series, there was no break, the movie ended, somehow it was as if some kind of break, no, no, well, i wasn’t there, but why did he tell me so much about it, no, yuri lenko told me that he left the hall altogether, well, when the screening began, he sat down opposite and said right away and

saw several military vehicles approaching, soldiers with machine guns jumped out of them and in fact surrounded the cinema, but it would seem that there was only such a small local protest in the cinema, and what is the system, they bring out a battalion of soldiers who surround the cinema, but then they scattered, that is... not so clearly, but this, so to speak, these, these, these things drove away fear, as soon as you stepped forward, they tried to hit you so that you understood that the next time they would hit you in such a way that you would be left with a wet spot, poetic cinema , let's still have time to talk about poetic cinema, in fact, in fact, it was also something like that, you were talking about the russian critic,

the soviet kri bleyman, right bley? why was poetic cinema dangerous for the soviet authorities, or why was it under such a ban, why was everything put on the shelf in the end? once a moscow film connoisseur explained to me, he said, everything that the soviet official did not understand, he was terrified of it and tried to ban it, but since he has not read it, he cannot decode it. the text, so it is better to hide it somewhere, but, mythopoetic cinema, well, why myth, because it is it was based on a myth, on myths, what are the shadows of forgotten ancestors, that is, folk rituals, that's all there, sorry, now we're showing it, it's babylon 20, we're showing excerpts from mykola ivan mykolaichuk's film babylon 20, well, it's also that

mythopoetic cinema itself, and by the way, it is based on the motives of vasyl zemlyak, a brilliant , well, folk philosopher, this ivan played the role of this fabian, a village philosopher, who has the features of both hryhoriy skovoroda and vasyl zemlyak, he also went to the streets of kyiv hills, philosophized, that is, he wrote one novel at the age of 6-7, and mostly talked, well, like ancient philosophers, and he liked to talk like that on the go. by the way, they are thinking about the then kyiv life of the 1960s and early 1970s, it was largely carnivalized, well , the same parodzhanov, he was at the center of this group, which included mykolaichuk, ilyenko, and balayan , many younger and slightly older cinematographers, and they met almost every day, not only. by the way, in parodzhanov, let's say in

yanukovych's apartment, oh my god, yakutovych, that's it too that was the band, and they, they are like parajanovs, it’s a holiday all the time, festivity, there are a lot of very stories like that, it’s all howl, roman balayan still, when he hears something, it’s like a true version from a parranjan, he says, seriously, he told the truth, well then it was mykolaichuk, just a fantasy, once, when i spoke with him for the first time, well, not the first time, well, in the first period, in the house of creativity, and we left after... a long conversation, and leonid charivatko, who knew him much better, he looked at zori like that, he says to me, he says to me, well, how about you, me i say, well, it’s great, how much he told me everything, he says, and yet he lies, he says, but how beautiful, because ivan was also carried, as was

parajanov, when he saw in front of him what this maidan was, what if, in 2004 , when i was standing there in that orange on the maidan, it seemed to me that parodzhanov was standing somewhere and was rejoicing, because this is his element, this is it, this is the fair, these fair people who, well, this is a holiday, collect, collectively, this is the collective came out, and this, and this is a holiday of freedom, because everyone is free here, everyone takes off their masks, puts on some others, this is a holiday of freedom, and he is in this carnival, he forgot, they say, rajhanov was very afraid of prison, but he forgot so, that you have to be careful, do you remember anything about it, how he behaved in general, in such a in terms of politics, i know prodzhan, because when i entered he was already arrested , that's why i couldn't know him, i saw him

several times when he came to kyiv in the late 80s, but even then it was absolutely such a moment... far away, well, a simple example, 40 days after the death of mykolaichuk on the bykovo comes from due to the lateness of the parajanovs and immediately such a visual sensation that he is in the center, everyone around is like that, and he is like that, he looked around, then, oh, and there, across the grave, a monument on which it is written, an orphan, he approaches, hugs that monument , where are the photographers, orphan paradzhanov, he was here immediately ... he made a collage, and i remember peredzhanov at the grave, mykolaichuk, and he opens bottle after bottle of champagne and pours champagne on the grave, the grave of mykola, this is also such an action, that is it had to be something in his imagination, he, he, yes, he all the time, as far as i am concerned

i know, i am not familiar with him, but there are a lot of all kinds of stories, he is really creative performances all the time. i asked his wife, well, they divorced quite quickly, i think they lived for six years, slana ivanivna sherbatyuk, yalan, and why did you leave, she left, from parodzhanov, even before the shadow, and she said: well, how could i , a woman with a child, and here the theater is 24 hours a day, she says, all the time , and he tells me, how are you, how are you dressed, that means you need to change clothes, you need to buy a harp and so on, that is, all the time she is in his theater was an actress, she says, well, it’s 24 hours, at least 8 hours, with some kind of break, it ’s such a total theater, and that’s it, he got tired, the same roman boloyan told me more than once what he says, i always it was interesting

to see what a serojyn is like when he is alone, because it was impossible to imagine him alone, a carnival, so what? and this is in his films, that's why the shadow seemed to him to be an armenian and he got so deep and got to know all this, well , together with his other colleagues, and precisely because this is this, he got into this paradise of his, or this is his, this is terribly close to him , it was close, this carpathian, this hutsul carnival, and let me return to the question with which we started, how poetic cinema threatened the soviet government. i miss not only because she did not understand the cultural codes, yes, i think that it is precisely because the soviet authorities understood the cultural codes that are there, which are sewn in, so to speak, in this poetic cinema, let's go back, why , why all these films, including babylon,

i understand correctly, he was also on the on the shelves, am i wrong, no, i wasn’t, because it’s already the 80s, all poetic films, but before that , yes, osyki, there’s ilenka, parajana, then they got on the shelf, that is, there were dogs that didn’t get in, they were simply pushed away , it’s not always a well for good people, it was banned, shadows of forgotten ancestors was banned after parajanov was imprisoned, tried and imprisoned, well, under such conditions, it means that the director’s work is not shown, well, according to those stupid rules, even though he was he was imprisoned under the article not anti-sovietism at all, yes, he was humiliated, you know, that it was articulated more than once that this, this is also the government and the government at that time, its characteristic, that they let him go, because for these prisoners, which article, under which, under which he was imprisoned,

homosexuality, this is humiliation, this means, well, well, a man of the bottom, that is, he was practically doomed, he was destroyed there by the prisoners, simply in one way or another, but parodzhanov came into contact with them, they appreciated his very carnivalesqueness, this festivity, he is people. there was a holiday of human beings, and in it there was such an abyss of human positives that even the eyes of the prisoners it is clear that these people were often and balayan told me with mykhailo belyk that they visited him in the camps and after that he always introduced this conboy, saying that he has 100 , look, he is a genius, he has 100 stories, write down 10 and there will be 10 masterpieces, after that

these, prisoners came here to the belikovs there, and that is, with a note from parodzhanov, that is, he was able to see, even in some prison in some escort, his talents would be appreciated, and people felt this, and that is why he survived at the expense of such people because he was able see in people, this rich man... from the human side, he saw people in people, and the authorities didn’t like that, the authorities didn’t like his and the films of mykolaichuk, osa kilenko, and others . a brilliant film of the 1970s according to stelmach, it is also in principle a poetic film, but i did not like the fact that it is a ukrainian film, er, that it... raises the layers of ukrainian own culture. so,

what you quoted at the beginning, that there were always people in trousers, in embroidered dresses, but the thing is that ukrainianism was reduced to this, bean-making, that is, to this ethnographic, if such a low culture, it should be, it is the basis, but then you moved to the city, came to the city, and you have to superimpose on this basis another culture, russian-speaking, not at all oriented towards ukrainian some sources, on ukrainian codes, on ukrainian narratives, all this had to be erased, but these sixties refused to erase this layer, on the contrary, they began to build it up, and at the same time, malanchuk became the secretary of the central committee, who simply began to destroy writers, well, what kind of people put forward their own.

life, because it was proved, it was the 80th year, it seemed that everything , that was all, this system, was ending, i was with, it so happened that i came to the funeral of grigor, with mykolaichuk, just in time, and we were standing near a dug grave, the year 80 was march, and mykolaichuk cried terribly for half a minute. mykolaichuk just cried, well, he obviously felt that his fate was that he would die in the year 87, well, from a terrible disease, but it drained him to zero, and as you can see, the topic , the theme of the sixties, the theme of cultural prohibitions, and the theme of the conditions that she was able to achieve at the drop of a hat hold on ukrainian culture is very deep and only mr. serhiy and i started this topic, we started a discussion and i hope that we

will finish reading the sixties, seventies and in general, ukrainian dissidents, yes, we will still notice them, read them, study them and take them to my baggage, today's internal, i thank serhiy trimbach, film critic, screenwriter , for being with us today... it was a program, proper names, we will see you in exactly a week, read, because reading itself and understanding knowledge ukrainian culture - this is the first resistance to the aggressor. thank you. joints restrict movement, it is unpleasant and painful. strengthen them with the help of long joints. these are bags with collagen and vitamin

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