literally in a moment, let's watch together, good evening, we are from ukraine. glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health. in the next two hours, you watch the verdict program, we will work in two slots, from 20:00 to 21:00 and from 21:15 to 22:00. we talk about ukraine, about the world, about war and victory, about everything that you talk about among yourselves speak, our dear viewers, today in the program. it is already a real

winter at the front, what will happen on the front line and whether our pppo is ready for new blows from russia. servant she called the people to resign, stupidity or hostility, and what responsibility should nardepka bear. the border of disagreement is how the polish and ukrainian authorities will solve the problem with the blockade. we will talk about this and other things for the next hour with our guests. veteran of the russian-ukrainian war yevhen dyky, general viktor yagun and executive director of the institute of world politics yevhen magda. however, before starting our big conversation, let's watch a video of how a factory that produces engines for military equipment, and the main directorate of intelligence successfully attacked the smolensk aviation plant, it is there that the kh-59 missiles and various modifications are produced,

let's see, yes, yes, yes, wow, whoa, whoop, whoa, right here. friends, for those who are currently watching us live on youtube, please subscribe to our channel and also take part in our vote, today we are asking you about whether you trust the head of the armed forces

of ukraine valery zaluzhny, this is the same question we also put it on tv. so if you trust, then please call 0800-211-381, not 0800 211-382. all calls to these numbers are free. we are in touch with yevhen dykiy, a veteran of the russian-ukrainian war, former commander of the aidar battalion platoon. mr. yevgeny, i congratulate you and thank you for joining our broadcast. good evening. glory to ukraine. glory to the heroes, mr. yevgeny. let's start with stolteng and his statements, because today there was a press conference of the secretary general of nato, and he said that the last weeks have been difficult enough for the eastern and southern fronts, some of the most intense battles actually took place these days, - said stoltenberg, and besides, he promised that

nato would continue to support ukraine with weapons, let's listen to the nato secretary general. in recent weeks alone, we have 10 billion euros for military support to ukraine. then there is the air defense coalition. the allies provided a very modern weapon, including cruise missiles from great britain and france. the allies also provided many other types of modern weapons, and of course there was a training center in romania for pilots on f-16. everywhere i see strong commitments from nato allies to provide military support with a wide range of weapons. stoltenberg, pistorius, austin, they all say that they support and will support ukraine and that ukraine's victory over russia is too important, or rather that russia be defeated, or rather, they talk about this, actually, and this is very . they say in my beloved

city of odesa, there are two very big differences, yes, that is, western leaders also say that russia must be defeated, but considering that the intensity of the battles, which we and stoltenberg are talking about, it is noted that we can now say about the situation on the eastern and southern fronts, how ukraine can gain an advantage over the russian army, you know, i would just like to talk about the fact that the issue of gaining the advantages are in our hands, and this is not a question of stolteng, pistoris, who is there, who is there, austin, because neither stoltenberg nor pistorius. they will never supply us with people, they are the ones who are in short supply at the moment, as it does not sound unfortunate, when this morning she came extremely unpleasant news, that the russians have indeed already entered the avdiivsk industrial zone, they are absolutely still far from

controlling the avdiivsk industrial zone, but the fact that the fighting is already going on inside the avdiivsk industrial zone is, unfortunately, an unfortunate fact, they did not enter there in 14 -huh, they didn’t find it there for the first one and a half plus years of this war, at the moment the war is already in full swing, sorry, the geography of the village has not changed, the village itself and its fortifications have not changed, the commands actually have not changed, that is, it is not that someone something missed, and it's just that it's not there enough of our defenders, to be honest, they are the last ones there, well, a few weeks, a month and a half, i would say, quite often they hear such things that really hurt, heard from the front, for the first time in the war enough mines were laid, we destroy the ork defense, there is no one to attack it, or our snipers and anti-tankers are transferred to ordinary infantry, because there is no one to hold positions, and all this is not about stolteng and not about pistorius, it is about

our undermobilization and about the fact that in us it turned out to a certain extent such a very painful for we are, let's say, desynchronized, while we have: there were enough people, it took a very long and slow time to reach the weapons, and while it is in a more or less acceptable amount, just like that more or less acceptable, it is not that there is not enough of it, but still in a more or less acceptable amount, while it arrived, during this time we ran out of defenders, and the situation is currently restrained primarily by this, we have a good situation in many areas of the front, in particular near tokmak in the south, in particular the left bank of the kherson region, where what seemed to have succeeded for a long time it is impossible to land and gain a foothold on a serious bridgehead, and one way or another, but our actions are constantly held back by the fact that we are running out of human reserves earlier than it would be necessary to

implement the plans of the command, and this is not a matter for the army , this is a matter for the rear, for the rear, which does not carry out enough mobilization, in which mobilization... you see, is considered unpopular, and since it is unpopular, in big cities, primarily in kyiv , it seems that they are not in a hurry to do it, so that not to annoy people, but if this attitude is not will change, and in a fairly short period of time, well, i think that it is time for us to stop talking about what we need to win, and we will have to move on to conversations, and what should we do to at least not lose outright, i don't know whether the latest statements of the people's deputies of ukraine from the servant of the people and david arachami and mariyana bezugloi are connected with this, who are already beginning to accuse valery zaluzhny there that they do not have a plan for 2024, i think that you have read this

mariyana bezulla's post, now we will show and tell to our tv viewers, maybe not everyone uses social networks, that mariana bezugla, who is on... a deputy of ukraine from the servant of the people and the deputy head of the parliamentary committee on national defense, what she wrote, she wrote about the fact that neither big nor small , neither asymmetric nor symmetric, the military simply said that they had to take at least 20 thousand citizens a month, and the master plan for the 24th year was not provided mainly by the commander of the armed forces of ukraine, this problem grew in the summer, both at the pond and in the parliament at planning... of the 20-24 budget, we asked what to plan for, how you see the war, tell me, these are the public reproaches that are now being heard against zaluzhnyi, from the mouths of maryana bezugglaya and david arahamia, whether they can be perceived as ,

a test of the audience on how the audience will react to it, and then it is already articulated by the senior comrades who are sitting there in the president's office. is this a test of this or, i do not presume to judge, a test or not a test, but the reaction is quite obvious already, and assuming that it was a test, i think that in this case... zaluzhnyi received such a powerful, let's say, mandate of trust that nothing will threaten him in the near future, because i am a promoter of a little social network, the ratio of reactions is 95% to five , approximately, but another thing is that i well, in fact, i don't care if it was a test or if it was real, mrs. maryana, of her own accord, let's say, was caught at the level of her understanding of the situation and , in particular, at the level of her understanding of what can

and cannot be thrown into public space , uh, what's the difference, the main thing is that it's already out in the public space and there's already a reaction quite obvious, so if it really was a test of the reaction, then it worked , but the other thing is that in this whole thread, which you have read in a row, there is ... something that does not really apply to the military leadership at all, in particular that , as regards the general strategy, in general and in particular war budgeting and mobilization, the role of the military here is only partial, they have to submit a certain request as needed, but the final decisions are the very decision of the insert as a whole, which includes both military and political leaders , there are some things that are possible. it would be worth discussing, but as she herself said, the discussion was not of a public nature

, so i'm sorry, how nice is it to publish it after that, and another question arises, but if it's not a public internal discussion, then after that they take it and publish it like that, after that, is it possible to demand from the military that they show any plans to the people's deputies at all, just after i demonstrate...' that i'm sorry, that everything that was said behind closed doors after that is simply taken and carried out calmly anyway, in the social network, it seems to me that there is an excellent proof that no matter what plans the military has, it is undesirable to show them to the people's deputies, but, in addition to all this, there are also some things, well, really, let's say this , which are objectively problematic, the other thing is that right away... just by mixing it all into one heap and by this pathos that

the hardworking person should resign, well , the wrong perspective is set right away, no, not wrong, let's say , uh, well, let's put it this way, now everything that is listed there, it goes into this package, and that is why it is difficult to separate the few things that might be worth discussing calmly in a normal tone, for example, about the fact that there is really a question... the same turnstiles, by the way, this is an adequate question, but not a trivial one, here, just recently, due to various problems , in particular with the turnstiles , the commander of the medical forces has just been literally changed, so it is probably logical to simply ask the new commander what exactly he is going to change, and what will remain from his predecessors, and precisely the predecessors frankly removed, precisely because of the inappropriate positions held and for major failures precisely in the medical supply, but well, but this is not a question of trust in the head, it is a question of the fact that

the command of the medical corps has just been changed, will these problems change, due to which actually , filmed the previous ones, then, this is a very interesting moment, well, i don’t know if what bezugla claims is true, that allegedly, the military wants to mobilize 20,000 people a month, so far we know, it’s only from bezugla, the military is they didn't deny it... and they didn't confirm it either, that's why this one the information is questionable for me, but assuming that it is true, then here, well, you have known me for a long time, you know that i really do not like what i call playing tricks, that is, when people like you and me who do not have access to all the gneshtab information, but they begin to strategize with a reasonable appearance, i am, let's say , very skeptical about this, but some things still seem... quite obvious simply from the open information that we know about the mobilization in our enemies, and based

simply only on what we know about mobilization in russia, the figure of 2,000 per month seems to me to be categorically too low, this is a figure that looks like maintaining the current composition of the armed forces, that is, maintaining the current level of hostilities, and as you and i started a few minutes ago, the current level hostilities with the current number of personnel, this is already, for example, big problems with the avdiyivka, here is the unfinished surovykin line and so on, that is, i understand... that what i am going to say now is very unpopular, but forgive me, we all this time we are fighting with fewer people than ours the enemy, and it's not normal, considering what's at stake for us and what's for them, that they're fighting to invade someone else's country, and we're fighting, sorry, for survival, and that we haven't been able to field so many fighters all this time, how many occupiers, well, this is firstly a shame,

secondly a real danger, and even first of all a real danger, a shame, things are estimated. and the danger is, in my opinion, a fact , and based on what is happening with the orks, i would say that we should be ready in the first half of the year 24, to add somewhere to the ranks of the zsu at least half a million people, which is somewhere around 80,000 per month, assuming that the mobilization should proceed at approximately the same pace. and this is really what, in my opinion , is worth a normal, calm discussion. indeed, without hype and without shouts about who should resign now, who where, who where and when, well, i understand that we are talking about how mobilization and demobilization will be carried out in the future, because this is also quite such an important issue, especially for those people who have already been in the great war for two years, and some more

is even more at war, and this is also an issue that is being articulated, well, at least roman kostenko said that they are preparing a draft law there, which they have to consider, and obviously these norms will come into force there already at the beginning of the 24th year, that is, by your estimates should be multiplied by four, if we take the number that mariana said, that is, it will be all general mobilization, but in terms of scale, right or wrong, not at all, we are a 30-million country, by the way, these are still very similar numbers , which i voice, but we now have about a million people in the pixel, well, some of them... really need to be sent home within the next six months, and this is not only a question of our duty to these people, but also of the actual physical and mental state of these people after two years of war, but it is also a question of how far demobilization is - it is a question of how easily we will carry out demobilization, that is, if

people know that they are going to fight, for example for two years, that is one story, and since now how to buy a one-way ticket and and you, if you have already put on the pixel, that's it, your life is over, if the victory is in 10 years, well, then you have been fighting for 10 years, there are no options, this is a completely different human psychology, and i think that without the demobilization of those who recaptured, it will be very difficult for us to recruit other people to replace them, and to go, for example, for two years and know that if you have already survived your recapture, then you will definitely be replaced, that is a completely different story, that is why, yes, it is a critical need for ... my opinion, actually, we'll see what this new one will be like bill, i really hope that it will really take into account both of these points , that is, we have people who need to be sent home, and accordingly, they need to be replaced, and we have a critical need to increase the number compared to the current one, yes, but this is very far from total mobilization, we now have a million

people serving, and if we get another half a million or even another million, it is only one and a half or two times compared to what it is now and now, well, agree, i don't know how it is now the streets of lviv look like but when you walk the streets of kyiv, every day, you simply see how far mobilization is still far from total, the fact that it is also a question of the number of mobilized, shall we say, needs of the armed forces per month, and the fact that there is no plan for the 24th year , and the fact that luzhluzhny does not have any plans, mariana is not sure that all this is going public. to what extent it is permissible in general during martial law and during the war and whether it is appropriate to hold this discussion at all, i.e. maryana and david , they are in the public sphere these and these topics, such a discussion should be exclusively closed, this

the discussion can be extremely sharp, it can be very even hot, but excuse me, it must be a discussion at the stake, well at... at least at very closed meetings of the committee, and judging by the behavior of our people's deputies, probably with taking them of an official, legally binding, written commitment not to disclose what was said at these hearings, but there is no other way, what happened is already very much in itself, i understand that this is an artifact of a basically good phenomenon that we remain democratic even during a great war society, well, but democracy... implies a certain, well, personal responsibility for what you say, what you, what you do, by the way, allow me a little bit of a tiny pin, even, even to you, with all due respect, it seems to me that even the wording itself. the survey that you are currently conducting, do you trust or not trust the head of the army, well, to be honest, even this is not about the war a little bit, but it is also such

a small artifact from peaceful life, nevertheless, i understand that you would did not start, if at first, some people's deputies didn't shoot like that, but let's maybe not be led by it either, but i somehow have a bad idea of ​​a public opinion poll about the trust of zhukov or eisenhower. well, we conduct such a survey, solely because someone doubts that the head is doing the right thing, or all his powers, well, i mean marian bezugl, solely because of that. thank you, mr. yevgeny, for the conversation, it was yevhen dyky, a veteran of the russian-ukrainian war. friends, we are conducting a survey, so now you see on on your screens, it sounds like, do you trust the head of the armed forces of ukraine zaluzhny, if you are sitting in front of the tv, you can. you can pick up the phone and call the number 0800 211381, you don't trust it 0800 2011 382 and all these calls are free for

you, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote, those who are watching us live now on youtube, there everything is quite simply, yes, no, or your comment about whether you trust the diligent or not, you can write under this video, then we will be in touch major general of the security service of ukraine in reserve, former deputy head of the security service of ukraine, viktor yagun. mr. general, i welcome you, thank you for joining our broadcast. yes, good health. with an interval of one week, president zelenskyi and secretary of the nsdc danilov announced that ukraine is at risk of internal destabilization. zelensky, referring to intelligence data, said that the russians, the destabilizing campaign under the conditional name of maidan-3, danilo about the activation of russian spies in ukraine, who and how do you think

is trying to shake up the internal situation in ukraine and which groups the special services need to pay attention to, and since they are already starting to talk about it, which are the most threatening groups of people or professions. or by activities that may affect internal stability in ukraine? first of all, these are the people who actively behave in the information field, that is, the so-called leaders of public opinion, as well as those who receive, received or have considerable trust, i would now pay attention, actively to... those or so-called bloggers or such

active media persons who have significant e-subscriptions in youtube, somewhere in telegrams, in telegram channels, and what they will say and so much their rhetoric will repeat the narrative of russia, in particular in the direction of the fact that we have problems in three directions . i, i will always say now, was, my friend published a very interesting post like this, i don’t want to name him, i don’t want to repeat his words, but he divided them into three points, which are now actively, actively spreading: first, this is the army , of course, this is what concerns, the possible, the possible there the confrontation between the civil and military authorities in ukraine, this is the belief, as far as the church of the moscow patriarchate is concerned, and in particular the activity of some deputies in the verkhovna rada to collect signatures for the possible referral of the draft law to the venetian commission,

thus stirring up part of society regarding the rejection of the second reading of this law on the regulation of the activities of religious organizations that are controlled from moscow, and eh , the last one is language, this is what concerns now the possibility of introducing certain eh correlations into the draft law, laws that relate to language, some copper things, in relation to educational laws, this is all that is allegedly under the auspices of our european integration, that is, these three processes are actively being pedaled from russia, certain contradictions are pointed out, actively, expanded. these or other statements, in particular, by deputies of the verkhovna rada, and so on, that is, i mean that russia is actively...' to enter our

information space and influence it, does the sbu have enough capabilities and forces , mr. general in order to prejudice the work of such bloggers, such politicians, that is, in what way is this work conducted, and how is it correctly build so that copper people do not influence, or let's say, limit their influence, so that they do not flood the information space with those topics that are irritating now. well, it is difficult to say, i think that this is not only the matter of the special services, it is the matter of every citizen of ukraine, to understand that in such a period against confrontation, one against the other, even if there are some political aspects, it has definitely not started, but i think that the special services they work actively with the sources of this information, they try to block

the channels to the kids. are working, that's the last thing information about the fact that the so-called pro-moscow bloggers who are engaged in spreading this information in ukraine are being actively neutralized, that is, the special services are not sitting idly by, but once again i emphasize that a large part of stopping this confrontation lies personally on each of us, and of course on the government, which should demonstrate unity, i don't know how, but this is one of those elements that will hinder the kremlin's plans. danilov, secretary of the national security service of ukraine, in an interview with the times, said that russian agents intend to drive a wedge between civil and military leadership of ukraine, who say that the main topic that is unfolding before our eyes is to drive a wedge

between the president and the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, but what we see now is that this topic is being actively pushed , precisely, in relation to the meritorious, there are representatives of the people's servants, can they be perceived now as provocateurs in this situation, or people, or who do not understand of what they do, or they do it consciously, the same arahamiya or bezugla, i think it belongs more to you know, this is not my expression, it was once used in the secret documents of the kgb , which believed that there is a category of people who do not really understand their actions, but want to always be heard, and they called them that and not hiding it in secret documents, that's why this term is so academic

, roughly speaking, that's why you have to look, i don't always do... i'm afraid that everything will not get out of hand with us, and this is a little bit of a danger in the hunt for a viddium, like you know, like when it was after the second world war war in the united states, when a commission, a congressional commission, there accused about half of hollywood there of working for the communists, and it cost the united states significant image losses, i think the same in ukraine ... now there is a bit of overdoing when they start any uh, no no, misunderstanding, any, protesting, some kind of objections or simply an attempt of a person to express his opinion, to be drawn to state treason, this is also a mistake, there are a lot of moments , when you can just talk to a person, explain the situation, you know, it is quite timely to carry out preventive measures.

conversation and i think this can stop some of the contradictions that are emerging, or perhaps large-scale wars in social networks, and this ultimately affects the adoption of certain decisions, because one way or another, well, the current government, it looks at the reaction of social networks , looks at sociological polls, but the security service of ukraine still goes about its business, in response to danilov's accusations that there are russian agents or spies there, including in the sbu, the sbu denies this, and says that during in 22-23 years, more than 2,000 traitors were exposed, and more than 300 agents of foreign special services were identified, in particular, among the exposed persons were former current people's deputies, viktor medvedchuk, andriy derkach, oleksandr ponomarov, oleksandr dubinsky, the ex-head of the main.