[000:00:00;00] we often spend a lot of time in the world of social networks, the fsb major is present there, remember this, ms. anastasia, thank you for the conversation, anastasia romaniuk, digital platform analyst of the civil network opora was with us, we are going on a short break, very briefly here is , and we come back, laughter, physical activity, sneezing, even during such a heavy load, urinary incontinence can make itself felt, feminost uro helped me. thanks to its natural ingredients, feminost uro helps restore control over urination both day and night. femininity uro - urination under control. ask at pharmacies, buy with a 10% discount at apteka anz, apteka kopiyka and apteka shar. agency wivinil presents, on december 3, 18:00,

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and caring people. espresso in the evening. verdict by serhiy rudenko, from now on in a new two-hour format, even more analytics , even more important topics, even more top guests, foreign experts, inclusion from abroad about ukraine, the world, the front, society, and also feedback, you can express your opinion on a bad day with the help of a telephone survey, turn on and turn on, the verdict with serhiy rudenko,

every weekday from 20 to 22 at espresso. the shelter is in bad condition, where to turn? check the shelter yourself. instructions from the ozone public monitoring group will help with this. download it, check the shelter and pass the information to the representatives

of the state administration in your area. they will give remarks to the person responsible for the condition of the shelter, balance-holder and control the execution and quality of works. everyone has the right to try in safety. well, we are coming back, we already have the final block of our part of the marathon, which today is for you, led by marta oliyarnyk, andriy saichuk, and with us today will be stepan havrysh, the first deputy secretary of the national defense security council. of ukraine from 2008 to 2011. mr. stepan, good morning. congratulations, glory to ukraine. glory. let's start with sensational news. yes, today it became known that the wife of the head of gur budano was poisoned. this has already been reported by various people media, with reference to its own sources in the power unit. here, for example, the sources

of ukrainian pravda say. about the fact that - budanov's wife is not the only one who was poisoned, er, there are certain other employees, er, i understand it, employees of gurmo, er, mr. mr. stepan, here is your opinion, as a person who understands all these, in general, structural matters, do you think that budanov's wife was really the object that they tried to poison, if it really corresponds to reality, or after all it was some the action is not specifically aimed at her, but so the circumstances coincided, let's say so, and there are two hypotheses, a conspiracy hypothesis. and of course, the usual thing is that to triple budanov's wife, you need to have

incredibly deep penetration, hur, it is necessary for budanov to make a number of mistakes when his wife goes to drink tea or coffee on her own without security in unreliable restaurants, cafes and so on, and in general, to assume that this process, during the war, when gur carries out such brilliant operations, and we see a large number of reports of such a rather deep spread, and more moreover, the statement that gur had already bypassed the mossad for a long time speaks of a rather serious , some kind of problem that we cannot really assess, poisoning by heavy metals, this is not poisoning, you know, from a tube with a poisoned arrow from a distance, for this it is necessary to prepare, strangely enough, a whole chain of various actions and people who can perform it, not everything is so simple, that is, there must be

people who will do it, a cover operation, extra, maybe even extractions and so on, everything is taken into account, it is complicated enough surgery you more when it concerns budanov's wife , who constantly... talks about the fact that there have already been more than 10 attempts on him, the conspiracy story is that it happened at the moment when danilov, the secretary of the security council, said that the ukrainian all kinds of organizations there are permeated with russian spies, there are many of them, they have woken up, russia has woken them up today and is trying to attack, from all sides, various ukrainian... informational, political, centers, decision-making centers, civil organizations, etc., to which the security service of ukraine said that there is nothing like that, the sbu is actively fighting against him and another one catches a large number of russian spies and therefore

there is nothing to talk about, in reality we can witness such, well, a certain internal struggle, at one time i was responsible for intelligence and counter-intelligence in the council. i worked a lot with different leaders and often attended various meetings and the formation of various decisions, i will say that the situation was never such that these organizations were able to act together, i proposed to create a committee on intelligence issues at my time, when was in charge of these problems in the security service, but everyone was afraid that i would lead it, and so until... i didn't quit, until i was fired, it wasn't created, and then it was created, and so it disappeared, in terms of logic,

he had to take on the functions, analytical, and generalize all intelligence from all types of intelligence services, from all types of possible, other information gathering, which is also engaged in by the security service of ukraine, and report to the president one consolidated position, in principle, this is how the americans act and not only and therefore now to speak that we have such a fact in front of us and we can assess it is impossible, because it is clear that if this happened, this is a serious enough challenge to ukrainian military intelligence, not only military intelligence, but also counterintelligence, it is a serious blow to the security service as a whole, which protects, first of all, its employees, officers, their families, and so on, and this is a serious question on their ability to protect , including the security rear, so to speak, those who work directly on the battlefield,

such as budanov, others who fight, directly makes difficult decisions, especially since budanov is accused by russia of the destruction of the lieutenant colonel of the fsb in crimea, one of such targeted and most advanced counterintelligence specialists who acted against ukraine for a long period of time, let's talk about one case, very scandalous, in fact , this is the story of maryana bezuglona bezugla, the one that did not have time to subside a little, all these waves from such an absentee... controversy on the pages of the british media, articles and interviews of the diligent in for the economist and for and in turn an interview' i the president of the zelsky tabloid, the sun, how it all started again with the filing of maryana bezuglya, who, let me remind you, for those who missed everything, accused zaluzhnyi and the military leadership of not having a plan for next year. and urged them to send everyone

out of office, so to speak. mr. stepan, does maryana bezuglai speak with her mouth, how should i say it, the president's office , let's say, that's what they say, sometimes, you know, you remember, the boorish character zherinovsky is already a late celestial, but everyone always said that with these and his the figure of a jester, in fact, there is such and such a groping hidden, in fact, i always do... putin, who through his jester gropes for the reaction to his, to his ideas, there may be some kind of similar story here, or after all, as you see this situation without giving birth to anyone, but i will tell you that to talk about a clown who knows six languages, i personally met him, at one time when i was the vice-speaker of the parliament, a completely sober person, and he, too, is simple such

a showman who used, we know from the story that the clowns were all very sober and very smart people, and it's about a certain role, don't say, don't say, well, yes, when we're talking about electing presidents who run around the stage with a benzepela, that's how it might look, but it show, it's a show, because we also elected an actor as the president of the country, and it was also a show, you know, it was a production of creative groups that wrote. the film servant of the people, a new film is currently being prepared about a volunteer of the people, yes, that is, the success of one of the volunteers for the promotion of the president wants to be repeated, and everyone seems to think that what can work, the right and the left build their politics on this, there are various , i would say, ambitious political groups that do not set themselves the goal of winning and making money from it, but simply to realize their ambitions, here maryana... bezugla

, this is part of this project, where geoleros, de arestovich, others who live such a show, yes, they use this show in order to attract attention to themselves, this is such a theater, when actually, theatrical life itself, such cinematography is transferred to real politics, which is extremely harmful to everyone, because in principle we came to the opportunity to express a number of such conclusions. regarding the threats that exist in this area for the management of the country in conditions of war, but, maryana bezugla , she acts quite rationally, it is not, well, a psychotype, you know, of a certain sociopathy, which suggests that she does not understand what she is saying and is trying to personally implement some of his own, well, let's say, a platform, such a person who is able to advance somewhere, since... and so to speak, this elevator is career, it, with

such a big hole, that you can enter any it's time to fall, and she's already practical, but forgive me, but she personally, she personally stated in an interview with the bbc that she speaks her own on her theses, knowingly that this is her personal opinion and even she said more, she said that her her advisors sometimes convince her not to, but she still believes that she should say what she thinks people should say. the truth and accordingly this is her personal position, how do you feel about it? cinematography and theatricalism in this is that she prepares such a mise-en-scène in which her truthfulness, legal expediency, she acts as the main way, but the problem is different, i want to present my point of view and continue what your colleague asked, you understand, this is an answer to the hard worker on... his plan is in the economist, and this is not the answer of maryana bezuglya, it is the answer

of that opposition, in the office the president, to the president, who was actually almost named by simon shuster in a famous article , about the fact that the office of the president is almost at odds with the president, because the president wants to fight and they don't want to fight, they want to make peace, that's pretty serious ... seriously know the sign of such a crisis, when maryana bezula is used to say that zaluzhn does not have a plan, and the ogonomist plan is not a plan, you need to present a real plan, how it will develop: the war next year, maryana bezula does not understand at all what a military strategy is, what is a military plan, she cannot understand, she came from civilian life almost at home as a housewife, in order to be able to have the right to compete at this level, and you need to go through , well, complicated enough training, it is not enough

to go to the front, so she acts clearly from on behalf of those who are in the opposition today. to the hostage, who really intended to remove him from office, and simon shooter writes his articles about this, and president zelensky even remarked to him that he was not involved in politics, i want to say that this is enough, well, it was unexpected for me in general , and it is not clear, because on the contrary, the main, it seems to me, one of the main threats, internal threats, is precisely the existence of the civilian administration of the president, a civilian office, which... will endlessly and constantly not only compete with general staff, with the military, but will do everything in order to eliminate their decision-making, this happened to some extent, because the rates of the main command included a lot of, let's say directly managers from the office of the president, or clerks or employees of the office of

the president, who do not have directly related to the understanding, knowledge, theory and practice of conducting military operations, in this there is a danger for the president to create a military-civilian administration in conditions of war, in the second year of the war, at least, we have military-civilian administrations, and what prevents president zelenskyi should just remove all these problematic moments with literally one phrase, well, i don’t know what kind of evening address, he will still write an evening address today, and tomorrow, and he wrote yesterday, he will say there, i don’t know about the snow fell, there is more something happened, to say, and by the way, i completely trust the commander. everyone there is trying to tell some stories , they are simply working against ukraine, everything, in principle the question will at least look exhausted, why is there no such phrase, why does it look like the president is one of those who

who is behind the corner in this story, but the president is surrounded 24/7 precisely by his civilian administration, civilian... people, yesterday's assistants, assistants, or simply people's deputies, with a rather short political biography, and with the absence of such a professional crisis preparation and so on, the president has no real advisers who could have an alternative point of view, obviously this is also a problem when the president is constantly being kept under control, giving him... filtered information, knowing his psychology, understanding how he thinks, giving him ready-made texts, among other things, i think that today it seems that there should be, actually, a politician's conclusion, there should be an article by a politician about the person

of the year, yes, last year there was zelenniaskyi, i have no doubt that he has full the right to be a person this year, this next and this year. so he really continues to unite the world around the opposition to its already great axis of evil, the great military terrorist empire headed by putin, putin himself, who is without a doubt the beneficiary of the development of the war on in the middle east, and now such a war may arise between north and south korea, since north korea yesterday began to transfer troops to the zone and transport heavy weapons there, we can understand that it is he who is pushing the world to such a global war, which can have unforeseen consequences, and he has the right to do so, but he is also obliged to speak with sense, that is, to speak with those value

positions that unite society, that enable society to understand that there is a single resistance team operating in ukraine, so i will the example of israel, in israel, after hamas attacked israel, and this tragedy hit the society so painfully to the very depths, and at the same time, the government, in order to create a team of unity, he created such in the cabinet of ministers such and such you know , groups, for example, the minister of defense, the current one works with the former minister of defense and they accept. how to act, they are overseen by the current and former chief of general staff, who also act together, this does not exist in ukraine, a large number of military personnel work in the american administration: the biden administration, in

zelsky, there are practically no such people, and you understand, when there is still pressure on the commander-in-chief, it leads to the fact that it worries our allies a lot, that is, it is literally a desire even to probe for political sympathies among the military itself and try to build its political vertical there already, this what is now traced behind all this, and it is exactly the reverse process, we know churchill created. er government of national unity during the second world war, israel is showing it now. well, the americans don't fight, they just show what they've got military-civilian administration or civil- military administration. and, yes, biden also protects salev over others, but at the same time, he is guided exclusively by the advice of the military, when it comes to national security, in our country, national security issues are decided by absolutely civilians. the question of the strategy of the offensive, the summer counteroffensive, who decided, whether it was decided by civilians in the president's office or by the military, we

still do not know, and this failure that happened, well, it is a failure and a political one at the same time, there is a problem, and related to another one, we are pursuing two strategies at the same time, which are opposites, this is a strategy of peace and a strategy of war, we have constant conversations about the fact that we can conduct peace negotiations, it does not matter, the president's formula, it is correct, but it is quite complex and it does not yet have any single understanding of how to act, and even more so, it has decreased in malta to five points out of 10, but at the same time the latest articles in bild and an interview with arahamia, tv channel 1 :1 natalie mosiychuk talks about that. that her surroundings

zelensky constantly opposes the military, who demand to fight, realizing that there is no other way, they try to say that peace is still possible, arahami says that in 22 years we could have signed peace and everything would be over, the people who talk about this do not understand, warriors do not understand history, perhaps it is not worth comparing with past histories, but they do not understand that war has its own laws, that putin has not given even a hint that he is ready to sign a more or less fair peace with ukraine, and he does not want to of this world this peace is not necessary for him, he is showing today the intensification of his counter-offensive actions , to avdiivtsi and bakhmut there, aa in kupyansk, in other places, that he is ready to fight further, and his economy is gaining momentum, while we have a rather serious pause that delays , armaments that don't allow rapid mobilization today, and we've lost that period of time precisely because the civilian administration

of the president has not developed the appropriate war narratives, so to speak, and that's the problem, whether the president understands it or not, i don't i know but i think that he is quite a talented person and is able to understand this, we should push our discussions in this direction to the president, so that he takes this side, but isn't he always in some kind of warm? ma'am, this is the same question, mr. stepan, it's not the end, very briefly, just the viewers won't forgive us if we don't raise the issue, because i see that since the morning it's been written about under our broadcast, in particular on youtube, it's also many this story somehow struck me, you have already given such a theatrical metaphor when describing political ones events, in particular regarding the bezuglou there and everything that is happening, so the theater on the kyiv podola staged a play based on the play by karpen. karpenko is the owner, and here there is such a character, and karpenko karyy, you know what kind of power is seen, some 100 years ago, he apparently

predicted that zelensky would be our president, he named one of the characters in the play zelensky, well, the name of the character is it is there, a person who is not really a super, not a super positive character, not very cheerful, not very cheerful as it is right, an economist, here, well, i don't know for what reasons, but decided to change the surname of this literary character to zalutsky. well, there are a lot of comments on this topic, whether it is really censorship, self-censorship, why it was done, and again, it is very noted the compatibility of the surname zalutsky with the surname zaluzhny. i don't... mr. stepan, you literally have 10 seconds to react emotionally or not emotionally, this is the naivety

of petty political technologists who served yanukovych, others who lost everything, they are able to lead a talented world leader who was able to unite the western world against russia also to serious challenges, and these challenges are already forming everywhere, we can see it in small details, it is a pity that this is happening, that such primitive urban methods are used to incite an internal war. thank you for your comment, stepan havry was there. not with us, well, we have come to the end of our today's it, it was conducted for you by marty oliarnyk, andriy saichuk, and we will soon pass the floor to our journalists who have prepared a fresh issue, and before that a small pause and a selection of fresh news that have already been counted in

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the chronicles of information war project, from mondays, tuesdays, thursdays at 5:15 p.m. on the espresso channel. verdict with serhiy rudenko, from now on in a new two-hour format, even more analytics, even more important topics, even more top guests, foreign experts, inclusion from abroad , about ukraine, the world, the front, society, as well as feedback, you can express your opinion at any time of the day with the help of a telephone survey, turn it on. and join the verdict with serhii rudenko every weekday from 20:00 to 22:00 at espresso. there is a restaurant or a shop at the place of shelter. is this normal? so. in the fund of protective structures there are rooms with a dual purpose. they can simultaneously be a shelter and be used for another purpose. but if this place is on the shelter map,

in times of alarm you can hide there. stay safe. everyone's right. welcome to the news hour on the espresso tv channel. kateryna shirokpoyas works in the studio. the wife of the head of the main intelligence department of ukraine, kyril budanov, was poisoned. mariana budanova is allegedly in the hospital, writes the babel publication. now the course of treatment is ending, and the woman was diagnosed with heavy metal damage. these substances are not used in everyday life or military affairs,