[000:00:00;00] well, you see, mr. sergey, russia has been blackmailing everyone for a long time with everything, including the fact that it will actually block the work of the osce, because this structure, built on the principle, on the principle of consensus, one country raises its hand against, the decision is not taken , in fact, this blackmail is, well, you know, one of the foundations of russian foreign policy, in principle, with what it took and takes the western world. to the western world, this bubble, which is called obsie, is surprisingly still needed. true, it has no practical significance, for many, many years, it has not fulfills its, not a single function, which, which were still prescribed in the helsinki final act of 1975, then, when it

moved from a conference to an organization, nothing changed, because there this principle blocks everything that is needed for a normal , the safe development of this entire space , and therefore, they are trying, well, at least somehow somehow to keep this bubble still afloat, because if it acts differently, it will really cease its physical existence, and precisely because of this, unfortunately , i believe it is an absolute mistake by our western partners, because i think we all understand that north macedonia was unlikely to make such a decision alone, nor did bulgaria, regarding the flight of the plane, this, the number one propagandist in russia, and

the impossibility of his participation in this ministerial meeting, so again this is not a determination, it is some completely disconnected from reality hopes that russia can be made democratic, that there are still some forces there that want cooperation with the west and so on and so on, this is the very lulling, self-condemnation, and in fact this, for russia will mean that it will trumpet for several weeks, but we will simply observe what russian propagandists will create, and how they will present another diplomatic breakthrough in the isolation of russia, which will already become a real fact, because if he sits down one table with all the others, it would mean that he, the actual war criminal, was recognized by all those present there, that is, greater stupidity,

to be honest, i... could not even imagine, and here our baltic friends and partners, how always show, even though they are small countries in terms of territory and population, they show the big monsters of world politics how to actually act, well, unfortunately, these monsters are very often afraid of their own shadow and do absolutely not what should be done with the country that they already in the first place and threatens, sir. vladimir, it is clear that russia will gain from this, because it is such an easy rehabilitation of the same, lavrov, earlier we saw a virtual speech, or a speech in the virtual space of vladimir putin at the g20, and what is the world losing, putting the same lavov, the same putin next to him, and what a danger this carries for the whole

world, i.e. how much. it is safe for the same members of the g20, well xi jinping and joseph biden were not there in this virtual communication, but other countries that consider themselves great and powerful in this world, they were, even in the virtual world, but they were close to putin, the same lavrov will be close to the countries that are actually also threatened by danger from the russian federation, what do you believe in the forecasts and the statements that are in the american intelligence, about what british intelligence says that russia can go beyond ukraine. well, you see, last year poland gave lavrov a red card, and nothing terrible actually happened, he was not present at the conference in warsaw, which

has changed this year, i don’t know if some capitals have re-loved russia so much and again all fables are told about the need to keep a window, contact. open, but there is nothing to talk about with war criminals, who have no place at the table, negotiations, among the ministers of legal affairs, obsie, what is their place on the dock in the hague, and the most important thing is what they are losing, mr. sergey, i think that they are losing, they are losing trust, trust that these countries are real, i mean civilized.. . countries really take care of the values ​​on which they themselves are built, the values ​​of respect for territorial integrity, respect for international law, respect for human rights, and

so on, because how can you sit next to the representative of the country, where is the child who has pasted some tags on its price tags with the corresponding names, so to speak, were planted for 7 years, where, where, where is the sense of responsibility for the fact that, being with such a person, you do not provoke her, in her person, this state to commit further crimes, so you know this, it is a question of morality and political will, unfortunately our western partners lack this political will and very often morality, they go somewhere thinking about the fact that maybe something will come out of russia, well, unfortunately, nothing will come out, we are, we can already see it very well, next to by the baltic countries, which block the arrival

or, let's say, do not boycott the arrival of lavov, yes, lavrov is at the osce ministerial summit, there was also information today that finland is completely closing the border with russia. federation and demolish the consulate in turku, they will build a kindergarten instead of the russian consulate there, the minister of the interior of finland, marie rantanen, motivated him by the fact that this is a matter of national security, finland is the target of the russian hybrid operation - she explained, well, that is, we see that the finns, lithuania, latvia, estonia, actually those countries that know very well what russian is the federation, well, in the former soviet union, but mainly it is moscow, let's say this, moscow, they, they perfectly understand what this hybrid friendship leads to, that is,

because the hybrid war waged by russia, it spreads, well, first of all to neighboring states , even though they are under the nato umbrella, do you think that what the finns and the people of lithuania, latvia , and estonia are doing will somehow encourage all other members of the european community to treat the russians accordingly , or how do they deserve it? well, i would like to, mr. serhiy, whether this will really happen is a rhetorical question, because there will always be those people who will say these banal, excuse me, chewed-up, formulas about the fact that russia cannot be isolated, that otherwise it will become completely wild, it is already wild, and here we are only talking about the level of this wildness and barbarism, which does not need to be proved to anyone, but in spite of everything there will be people who will continue

to say all this political nonsense and delusion, justifying their inaction, you see, finland is a huge country with population, if i'm not mistaken, 5.5 million people and she is not afraid to do things that other big countries simply cannot even imagine, huge germany, which gives us a lot of help, for which we are terribly grateful to her, she is actually the second, eh well, the second largest aid country in all directions, it can't give us taurus missiles, why? well, because she is afraid of escalation, she is afraid that this missile will fly to some missile plant somewhere in the territory of russia, and this plant will fly into

the air, and for some reason they believe that it will to mean that germany entered the war, well, sell these taurus through third, fifth hands to anyone, papuan guinea, to transfer these missiles to ukraine, no, they find thousands of formal reasons not to do this, and everything converges on one person. well, again and again we come back to the political decision, and how to act, in this situation, perhaps we just need to explain that it is not determination that leads to political defeat. well, look, if we are already talking about germany, well, that's right an extremist party is an alternative for germany, it is gaining votes, today, according to some estimates, it is about 21-22%

of germans who support this party, a logical question arises, why? everything is very simple, people just want to see, at least in words, decisive politicians who propose something, who criticize something, who demand something, and politicians who are both yours and ours, and then today, then tomorrow, and we will give, we will not give, well such politicians, of course. the rating will start to really sink, therefore, even from this domestic political point of view, determination - this is a sign of confidence and strength, and if you are not decisive, then my political career will quickly end, even from this point of view, i think that some politicians in berlin need to finally gain this determination and understand

that the formula... ukraine does not win, and russia does not lose, this is the formula for helping the russian aggressor, that it should be changed to the formula, ukraine wins, and russia loses, because yes, only in this way can justice be restored, about justice, mr. volodymyr, i also wanted to ask you, because when we are talking about what ukraine wants, how ukraine wants it, and whether someone is pushing ukraine to a peaceful struggle. here the former negotiator with the russian federation from the period of march-april 22, david rahamia, comes to the public. he begins to tell the details of what happened at these negotiations, as a person with great diplomatic experience, i would like to ask you about this, but first let 's let's listen to what he said, because it seems to me that it is indicative, including for our westerners. partners, because these

negotiations that took place, and the composition participants in these negotiations, and what they could do or could not do, what they could agree on, what they could not agree on, because it, all the same, i think, in the diplomatic reports , all these statements necessarily got into, because they give themselves an idea of ​​what the negotiations were, what they were talking about there, and most importantly, how himself...' one of the main negotiators who was there, how he perceived it, so rahamia about the negotiations with the russian federation, at the beginning full-scale invasion, let's listen, they were ready for words much more than words, we understood that everyone, each side has its own game, well, that is, this whole game directly depended on successes or defeats at the front, well , in words they said that everything, we are going home

to where, where you were, you are there 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, accept, and that’s all, and then in the details that we will stand until you accept everything, and about how johnson influenced the results of these negotiations, or rather, the finalization, also a fragment is very interesting, they really, really hoped until almost the end that they would pressure us to sign such... an agreement, so that we took neutrality, that was the biggest thing for them, so that he, they were ready to end the war if we take, like finland once there, neutrality and give a commitment that we will not join nato, just one point, well , in fact, the key point was this, everything else is there, cosmetic, political seasonings, such as about denazification, the russian-speaking population and blah blah blah, why didn't ukraine agree to

this one? point, well, first of all, in order to agree to this point, it is necessary to change the constitution, our path to nato is written in constitution, secondly, there is no trust and there was not and there is no russians that they will do it, it could only be done if there were security guarantees, well, we could not sign something, leave, everyone would have exhaled there, and then they would came in, more prepared, because they came in really unprepared . to such resistance, that is why we could only work when there is a hundred percent certainty that this will not happen again, and there is no such certainty, moreover, when we returned from istanbul, boris johnson came to kyiv and said that we are not at all let's not sign anything with them, and let 's just fight. mr. volodymyr, here johnson came and said that we will not sign anything, we will fight, well

, you know, mr. sergey, i am watching this, and to be honest, as a professional diplomat, i am holding my head, because... on such negotiations, well, they begin with what, they begin with the preparation of the directives of the delegation that, er, conducts these negotiations, and these negotiations, taking into account its importance and, well, the situation that was, they cannot write on the knee, they must to be approved by the president of ukraine, from what we heard...' at that time, there were no directives, they were sent in such a way, in order to either soften their eyes or sign the capitulation, that is, actually, what can to understand from the situation

that we are talking about and so on, i don't know if it was possible to shake hands with these bandits from the right side that we are seeing now, under these circumstances, i would not, frankly . therefore, i do not know what boris johnson was talking about there, but in my opinion, for boris johnson on the second day, or actually already in the first day, the russian invasion was answered by the ukrainians, who went to the checkpoints, who began to work, who began to destroy the russian occupiers, already on the approaches, in front of kyiv, so you know, with such diplomacy, ala, arahamiya, i don’t know what a miracle, a miracle we in general, avoided what was imposed, because in order to conduct negotiations, one must simply understand what

negotiations are, one must understand how they are conducted, why they are conducted, what negotiation tactics, what mechanisms, what ee rules, er, what experience and so on and so on, well, that, that, on alas, it is achieved, or maybe luckily, only through years and years of participation in these affairs, but there, among the participants there was only one diplomat, who sat quietly and remained silent, because he was probably not given words, that's all the diplomat, that's why it was impossible to expect anything, anything positive from all those rounds, well, the result, thank god, maybe after the words of boris johnson and not only, began to turn to our side, because you can imagine what would have happened if, signed such pieces of paper,

i think we wouldn't know what it is today independent ukraine, by the way, about this document, about which i spoke a little earlier. months ago, putin showed somewhere in front of the press that there is a list of something that was agreed upon, arakhamia also mentioned this, i suggest you watch this fragment. putin, on the other hand, showed the document, and according to the result of the belarusian negotiations, to the african delegation, he demonstrated it, where, as he claims, the draft peace agreement with ukraine is written, and on, this document was supposedly initialed in istanbul, this document was called: agreement on permanent neutrality of ukraine and security guarantees, putin said that there were 18 articles, and as he said, i will quote, everything is written from combat equipment to the personnel of the armed forces of ukraine. he said that there is a signature of the head of the delegation

, so putin claimed, for some reason he did not make this document public, you paid attention, what do you think, why, if he had it. document, it would be made public already, but again, mr. volodymyr, is it always what the delegations of different countries talk about, well , this delegation had a corresponding mandate, of course, if they were negotiating with the russians, but do these working documents always get into the public sphere, well, why am i asking, because before the big invasion, before the big war, there are many... different variations about the fact that the ukrainian side is negotiating with the russians , there are certain agreements, will it not happen that after a certain time we will witness the fact that someone will start to get some documents from shokhl to moscow and show them so that the wedge is not already driven between

the civilians and the military leadership, but between the civilian leadership and citizens of ukraine? well, mr. serhiu, regarding the directive , they can never be public, this must also be understood, if the country publicly declares its positions, it will never achieve any results in the negotiations, it is obvious, they cannot. to be public, but for some reason i am convinced that there were no registered documents, well, this is my personal impression, i just remember those dramatic times, you could say that we did not have time for these, for these formalities, go and see, that too it could very well be, er, as for the documents, er, putin for a reason, waved a piece of paper there, i don’t know what... who visad him there on our side or did it at all, but the fact that they came with

an ultimatum, where everything was written down, then you don’t have to go to vorozhka here either, it’s a traditional the way moscow so-called diplomacy works, this is blackmail, otherwise it will be worse , either take it or see, tomorrow there will be not one offensive, but five offensives, this is the traditional formula of the work of this so-called diplomacy, so the document was definitely there, another issue , how it was considered and what was said already from ours side, you see, we don’t know this and we don’t know if we will ever find out, but i think that after all, some sketches of what was discussed, somewhere in the archives should still be, because, well, nevertheless, in the diplomatic service it does not happen that after the end of any conversation or event there are no

traces of what was said, and and and and what, in fact, the parties agreed or did not agree on, so i think that one day we will find out about this. mr. volodymyr, during the last week, we see how in the western press, maybe even for several weeks, various publications are appearing that ukraine is being pushed towards peace talks, last week bild published a text written by julian rebke, he is a military commentator, he wrote a text that the united states of america, germany are apparently pushing zelensky to negotiate with putin , but the government of the federal republic of germany officially stated that this is not the case, well at least in an interview with... the representatives of the german government said that from the very beginning of the russian aggressive war, both the united states of america

and germany were supporters of the end of russian aggression and the achievement of a just peace in ukraine, and this cannot be an imposed peace, but you know the german press very well, and obviously, i don't know whether in this situation bild can be considered the publication that publishes it. .. after all, it's not spiegel that has the correct information, and you have to understand the specifics of this publication, but can such negotiations be conducted at all, behind the political scenes about the negotiations between ukraine and the russian federation? you are right, mr. sergiu, the bill is not, so to speak, an authoritative publication, it is let's say this, yellow is a popular publication, but the truth is that it is read by the vast majority of the population of western germany, because

there are big headlines and very, you know, simple explanations of complex things, well, what the average citizen, who does not understand subtleties and does not understand, actually needs why to get into them, so it could be, well , a certain pir-walk of the same mr. robkyh. although, well, he is really considered one of those who, sometimes, has access to, non-public information, uh, you see, and, germany, and the states, denied such moments, uh, but, right there, everything manifests itself in practice, what does it mean to prevent ukraine from defeating russia? this means not giving it weapons in the right amount and at the right time, and then what to do after that, after that you have to make a decision,

either to freeze this front line, which is the current state, or, well, to use some kind of superpowers, to produce your own weapons and with these own weapons to try to defeat the enemy who is superior both in numbers and in armaments and so on and so on, which is, well , quite quite a difficult, if not impossible task, so here it is possible, and not...' lead negotiations, and it is possible to have a silent agreement, and in this way manage the situation at the front, which is also quite realistic. at the same time, i still think that for both germany and the united states of america, the victory, the actual victory of russia in the form of freezing

the conflict, is a huge personal defeat for them, a personal defeat. and biden's personal defeat. well, if biden wants to be re-elected for a second term, then going to the election with a clear defeat, well, that means simply losing this race, as they say, to any republican canadian, not even trump. if he wants to win , then he must, he must once again demonstrate this determination, this leadership, which will show that he makes difficult, difficult, but correct decisions. therefore, i don't think that we need to go too much, so to speak, into the details of the publication, into the bilt, something may be true, something may be false, we just have to follow what will happen in matters of military aid, if to mid-december the us, i mean the senate and congress will make these

decisions, and i honestly hope they do will make these decisions, it will mean that the usa is on the side of ukraine as a victorious country, because 60 billion dollars is a fantastic amount, and you mentioned today the size of the military budget of ukraine and russia, this is a fantastic amount for our victory, so if it is approved, it will mean that we will receive probably everything that we will need just to deter the enemy, to drive him away from ukrainian land, and this will be a real answer. the question is whether there are any negotiations behind our backs or theirs there is no well, today in brussels, a ministerial meeting was held, or a meeting of the ministers of foreign affairs of the alliance countries, after its completion, jen stoltenberg, the secretary general of nato, said that nato will not stop supporting ukraine in its repulsion of russian aggression, and the latest statements in

support of the ukrainian people is a clear signal about this, russia, let's listen to what stoltenberg said. it is our duty to provide ukraine with the weapons it needs, because it will be a tragedy for ukrainians if president putin wins, but it will also be a danger and for us, because then the message to all authoritarian leaders, not only in moscow, but also in beijing, will be like this. when they violate international law, when they invade another country , when they use force, they get what they want, so it's about the whole... idea of ​​a rules-based international order where territorial boundaries are respected. mr. volodymyr, you talked about the fact that the west still cannot clearly articulate that they want the defeat, the total defeat, of russia, but they are talking about the victory of ukraine, and this

probably the biggest problem, because talking about what we support. ukraine must win, this, well, no, is not equivalent to the fact that we will do everything so that russia loses, and totally loses, that's right, i understand, that's the main, main problem, mr. serhiy, they don't want the defeat of russia, they don't want this monster, the monster, which is the greatest threat to the entire civilized world, to finally disappear from the face of the earth and they don't want to understand and this is the saddest and scariest thing for me, they don't want to understand , that the disappearance of russia from the political map of the world as it is now, this is a colossal plus for their national security, for their economy, for the fight against global warming, because russia