glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health. in the next two hours , the verdict will be on your screens, we will talk about everything that interests you, dear tv viewers, about ukraine, about the world, about war and about victory, today in the program. russia is ready to take advantage of political divisions, rumors of conflicts. zelensky and zaluzhnyi are reaching a new level, what consequences will this have for the front? for the russian special services, budanov is the number one target, what and who poisoned his wife ordered to do it? ukraine is even closer to nato, as the reform plan agreed with the alliance looks like. we will talk about this and other things for the next hour with our guests, with a veteran of the russian-ukrainian war, oleksiy hetman, the people's republic. of ukraine

by oleksiy kucherenko and oleg rybachuk, public activist. however, before starting our big conversation, which will continue after 9:15 p.m., with our political scientists, volodymyr tsibulek, olesya yakhna, and oleksiy holobutsky. first watch the video of how the defense forces of ukraine destroyed the occupying buk-3 self-propelled anti-aircraft missile system, the cost of which is... 40 million dollars, let's see, it's not accelerating, we'll show you next, so friends, for those who are watching us live on youtube now, subscribe to our page, and also , like this video in order for it to be promoted in youtube trends, during the program we conduct a poll, we ask you about the following: do you think there is a conflict

between the civilian and military leadership of ukraine, yes, no, if you vote on youtube, everything is simple there, two buttons, two options, yes, no, or, write a comment under this video, what do you think about it, those who are watching us now on the tv channel, there are also two options for voting, if you think that there is a conflict between the civilian and military leadership of ukraine, vote for the number ... 0800 211-381, if not, 0800 211-382 , why are we asking about this, because the entire world press is now writing about it, about the fact that there is a conflict between zelsky and zaluzhny, although the office of the president of ukraine denies this information, but we will still ask you, since you follow, and see, read for social networks, mass

media and various tv channels, see what conclusion you draw. we are in touch with a veteran of the russian-ukrainian war, major of the national guard in the reserve, oleksiy hetman. mr. major, i congratulate you and i am glad to see you on our air. good evening. you know, mr. major, during the last two days there has been quite a lot of comments and a lot of information appears, well, at least in the comments, about the poisoning of the chief's wife. general of the main directorate of intelligence of the ministry of defense of ukraine budanov, marianna budanova, and today there was information that budanov's wife was allegedly poisoned by myshchak with tartuta, well , at least sources of ukrainian truth say this with reference to their contacts in intelligence, yesterday they said that she was poisoned with heavy metals, that indicates that someone deliberately tried... to poison or

possibly take the life of the wife of the head of the main intelligence department of the ministry of defense of ukraine, of course the war is ongoing and it is clear that budanov is one of the targets, including the russian occupiers, is it possible to assume, mr. major, that this assassination attempt was committed by russia, since russia has a lot of experience in poisonings, we know that this is actually from former employees of the russian special services, whom they poisoned in britain, and finally, oleksiy navalny, whom they poisoned in the territory of the russian federation , how do you assess this story, how it can affect the psychological state of the leaders of our special services? well, the russians used to poison even in britain, we remember. that is, there is enough,

they have enough experience in self-application of poisonous substances substances, in order that you to me. i'm sorry, i can hear everything fine, no, there are some problems, everything is fine, thank you, but what you signed is wrong, yes, you mean it, so please change the title, it 's okay, oleksia oleksia, what's the difference, and budanov's wife , well, you see, oleksiy kucherenko's wife, budanov, also came after me, well, that's all, okay , let's be serious, could the russians have done this, of course, could they have done it, and was it a deliberate attempt on friends... budanova, well it is not a fact because there is information that other employees of the main intelligence department also received the release, it is quite possible that it was an attack on the employees of gur directly, and bodanov told, his wife told that from the beginning of

the full-scale invasion at work, because well, we understand that such people, they are under the sights of the russian special services and just walking around the garden, it would hardly be right, because uh, as they say, the enemy does not sleep, so we can assume that she just got into, as they say, by accident, uh, but the main the goal was exactly employees, maybe budanov himself, this is one of the versions, another version, which, er, is more like this, is not very good and does not describe very well... in general, how can one describe well, if it was an attempt directly on the wife, the head of the main department intelligence, then this is unacceptable, according to the rules of these services, according to the rule of intelligence, according to the rule, well , special services, there are unwritten rules, which are

the code of honor, as they say, which try to adhere to such and such services, that it is possible to hunt down some state an activist, a worker of the special services, well, that's possible to understand, the whites especially during the war, to attack the family , well, this is, this is unacceptable, there are such written rules, i.e. you can't pick on wives, husbands, children, parents, i.e. well, yes, that's not how it works, if it there was a targeted attack specifically on the wife, then i think that it just shows what kind of people these are, what their services are, in general, well, i think that there should be an answer for this from our side, but do not treat the wife there putin, for example, but to kill putin, well, that's what it is, we have the right to do it, it's a legitimate goal during the war, because he is not just a politician, he is the commander-in-chief, and we have

to attack all the forces that are there, all, all, the entire command structure, their troops, well, the truth is that it will be difficult for him, especially putin, because there are so many doppelgängers, that it is not clear here, then there and what, well, it is like that, but the fact that somehow someone brought poisonous substances into the closed premises, which are not under protection, i think that it is necessary to focus on this, how could this happen and i'm sure security is looking into it is doing, they will find traces, because, well, i don’t want to miss it, that it might be some kind of traitor or some kind of mole, well, if it got out, several people, employees of the main intelligence department were poisoned, then i think that they will find him, trace, trace will be deducted, especially since i am sure that the biomaterials of both the wife and these people were transferred to certain institutions,

where they will be very carefully examined and find out what exactly it was and how it could, well, it can be done certain spectral analyzes and even find the path by which the movement moves. here is this poisonous substance, that is, it is quite possible, you just need to know what to look for, what exactly it was poisonous, then you can tune in to exactly this element and simply this for those spies, god's harrows, who tried to do this here, let them when they find out, they will find out what they poisoned, then they will find out where it came from and they will attack these people, so let them find out, you know, mr. major, i once talked to the former head of the security service of ukraine valentyn nalivaych. asked him about poisoning of yushchenko, so he says that as of 2007, they in the security service of ukraine even knew the military unit from where dioxin was transported from the territory of russia to the territory of ukraine, that is, down to the smallest detail, well, you know,

there are such and such means when it is possible to find with such clear, very sensitive instruments, how was it moving, what chemical... were it moving, it 's a complicated, it's an expensive thing, but when we know exactly what we need to look for, it's just in general, well, that's how it is does not work, but when you can tune in to this particular wave. easier speaking, it can be calculated, i think that isb and gur are already dealing with this, and i am sure that if it is not some kind of coincidence, well, we can assume that it is something like that, well, i don’t know, according to the court, it is not good to make a mistake on those by means, you know, such, well, you can skip anything, but most likely it was a purposeful action and i am sure that they will find who did it and from where, well, from where the ear is sticking out, we understand from the russian federation, but who exactly? it is very important that this person is found. well, what happened, it happened against the background of danilov's statement and

zelenskyi that the russian federation is trying to activate its agents who are in the ukrainian authorities, including in the special services, well, quite a few ironically commented on these statements that it is possible, but judging by what is happening and it is obvious that what else can happen, obviously there are enough of these agents in ukraine, well, at least russia was preparing for war not less than a week, it was preparing for 30 years before this war, the can was being prepared, the can was being prepared for a long time, they are very conspiratorial, there are many of them, it is obvious well, this is so that we are not heard to think that everything is spied on by russian spies, and there are quite a few of them, because we also had yanukovych's authorities, for example, when the minister of defense was actually an employee of the fsb, not just a citizen of the russian federation, of course they got their way. spies, but here we need to be a little calmer, because intelligence works here too, and the fact that they are there, the fact that

they have become more active, well, this is against the background of the fact that the russians are not able to achieve any significant victories with reach, so they try to loosen the insides, you know, a little bit, so as not to strain this eh, well, our conversation, it’s interesting that there was information that, well, maidan 3 is complete nonsense, it could just be the name, because maidan is getting ready, they arise for completely different reasons, internal reasons, this is the emotional state of people, and well, i'll just tell you that to organize 2 million people so that they go out on the street, well, a simple question for those who are sure about it, how it could be done, how many organizers were needed, 100, well, just so that people think how is this what was announced on the radio or, well, stupid, that is, everyone understands that the maidans in this way are some shares, yes we remember. there were paid-up shares, sometimes people went out there, 100 people paid up there and they did some

kind of flash mob on a large account, that's why i wanted it to be a little less stressful, there is information that the russians have allocated a billion dollars for just such destabilization, right now, well, they called it maidan 3, although it is not necessary to insult the maidan, it is definitely not organized from moscow, and maybe it was organized, but, as if there was no result, but the money was spent, medvedchuk immediately remembered this, who was there something to 5 billion, in my opinion, but i don't remember what large amounts there were, which he received in order to destabilize the situation inside the country, to create certain structures there, he did not succeed in doing anything, and the money was spent, well, for expensive yachts, for some other things , directly for medvechuk and the company, i hope that these 15 billion, which the russians spent again on subversive activities in ukraine, those people who received them simply

stole them, and god forbid that they spent within our country, thus they they will simply improve our economic situation internally, so the russians spent a shot in the air, no no no no no, they didn't hit anything, but the money, the money remained in ukraine, i hope. that they will be spent here, it is very good, let them continue to do so, let them, let me think that our security service worked here, that those people who the russians may have considered their agents, were no longer agents, our employees, and this money is gone, well, we hope, if not the country's budget, then at least it is needed in trade networks, and what was bought with it, including food products, for example, and our producers were supported so that it would continue to be so, well, it is so, so as not to stress a little.

mr. major, it is clear that the russian federation is trying to destabilize the situation in ukraine, it is in principle their business, well, how would you say, because they always conduct special operations, because the russian federation is headed by the pedant putin and for him there is no war, there is only special operations, or military operations, or special operations of some agents, more special than military, the military is not very dark special, well, after all, he learned over many years in the kgb. ee stasi, maybe a little more, oh, no, what, yes, in germany , he studied there a little, he was already in the german republic, he worked at certain times, i think that's where he gained his skills, well, that's it , mr. major, i wanted to ask you about what the ukrainian army is facing when it enters winter, because it is clear that a rather difficult period is ahead, we can see what the weather is like now, including in the east and in the south, and, why am i saying , with which the ukrainian army enters the winter, regarding

positions, the armed forces of ukraine in the south and east, and most importantly, with what prospects, watching the...' events, how the russians are trying to storm avdiivka from all sides, and how many people and equipment they have already put there, which what is happening on the fronts now and what is the perspective, what dynamics can there be during the winter months? well, during the winter months, any combat operations will be a little less active, well, this is due to the fact that the ground will be soft, or after rains or, after such. such weather as now, then snow, then heat, and of course, heavy equipment , well, it will be extremely difficult to move on such ground in general, and the combat operations will be mainly artillery duels, well, the work of drones, well, the russian aviation will work out the means of air defense, that is, it cannot be said,

that it will stop, but it will have the appearance it has in general, the appearance in this weather, what we have to do, well here... you know, you can refer to the rate of the supreme commander-in-chief, who said about the decisions that they take on their own closed meetings, well, those are the ones that can be announced that we need to build fortifications along the entire eastern front, that is, to switch to defensive actions on a large scale, temporarily, because the russians, you see, are trying, and they planned to take offensive actions in the winter, now they are trying to attack , i.e. to go on the defensive in this part of the front, but it is necessary to build, engineer , professionally build these positions and hold the defense there, so that during this time it is possible to accumulate the necessary amount of weapons, carry out certain rotations, well, the weapons supplied to us by our partners, carry out certain rotations, well, and so on

, that is, to conduct combat operations there until spring, and in the spring, well, i hope, our full offensive actions will already be planned there . we will not go on the defensive in the southern direction, we will continue offensive operations in the, er, melitopol berdyan direction, and of course it is very important, this is what we are trying to do there on the left bank of the dnipro river near kherson, this is to build a bridgehead, with which you can move on, well, in side, well, no less, well, well, let’s say so, towards the crimea, these are such and such prospects, such plans, and she wanted to, please, we just announced these plans, if she is interested, maybe they will look at yours the program, and more, unfortunately, everything else is under the seal of secrecy, well, i’m sorry for going over, because it’s a lot of conversation procedures, so that when a decision is made not to go to war, well, there is no

such thing, it’s so stupid, you any military officer will say that there is no such thing as a plan for war , it is us who have plans for certain combat actions, there is preparation, there are certain concepts, the conduct of combat, and so on , that is, no one makes a plan for war, because we do not know the plans of the enemy, how can we plan what we do not know what he will do, we can assume , we can make certain predictions, but the plan of the plan as such, well, it is, well, it does not happen, she does not know that when operations, serious operations, at the level of the general staff, are developed, then they are made in a room and called differently gray room, dark a room, a black room, that's where the people who have to develop this detailed one are locked up plan, and until the plan is worked out, they don't leave that room, it completely excludes information leakage, that is, everything is inside there, the room is completely blocked, not to have the possibility of any listening, no there, well, no way to look, and when the plan is ready, then

only people can go out, well, there a conditional room is a room outside of which no one goes out, so how can you share this with any deputy or with some outsider, besides, i want to remind you, ms. maryani, that she ran for office from of the party represented by the president of ukraine, so i want panlenskyi, i want her to remember, maybe she forgot , what panlenskyi said that when our offensive was being prepared, about plans, he said this, let maryaana she will listen to the president, after all, this is the president of the entire country, it’s just that she is from his party, she ran for office, the more she should listen to him, what about offensive actions, in the world - said president zelensky , he knows three or four people in the world, well, i

will finish just to the point just talk about it the commander-in-chief knows, commanding, that is, there is no more and there is no place for her, i don’t want the conversation to switch to her, it’s just that you say that the situation inside is shaking, that’s the irritation and what was in the military after these things , it's not about whether she wants someone to resign or not, it's not about that, about the stupid thing she says, the war plan, there and something else, you what, as they say, with the oak fell, well, that's it, okay, let's move on, thank you, mr. oleksiy, that's it we will put an end, we are moving further in our program, it was oleksiy hetman, a major of the national guard of ukraine in reserve, a veteran of the russian-ukrainian war, friends, we are working live on the tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who who is currently watching us on these platforms, please like this video, so that it can be promoted in

the trends of these platforms, and in addition, you can take part in our survey, today we ask you about whether there is a conflict between by the civil and military leadership of ukraine, yes no, if you are watching us now on tv, please pick up your phones and vote, on the screens you now see phone numbers, 0800 211-381, if you think there is such a conflict, no, 0800- 211-382, all calls to these numbers are free, the same survey is also held on youtube. well, then we have the people's deputy of ukraine, oleksiy kucherenko, on the phone. mr. oleksiy, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. congratulations, mr. sergey, dear viewers, congratulations. glory to ukraine, glory is ready for the heroes to be useful, to be useful mr. oleksiy, in the form of a blitz, i will ask you if you see this conflict between the political and military leadership, or if it is just looming, and

looming, including journalists for econkonmist, who are already writing about it, it is, it is, there is no need there to close his eyes, another thing is that he is not very natural , i will quickly explain why, well, because you know the history of our president, he came with a specific kind of... a job that is very, very much appreciated, the love of the audience, yes, the love of the audience , the love of ukrainians, that's right, love, well, that's the key moment in the life of any actor, but i'm sorry, in our country, well, it so happened that during the war , popular love was shared by both the president and the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, valery zaluzhnyi, you see that this is not just some kind of respect, but it's really love and faith, it's clear that there are grounds here... for political potential competition, although it's too early to say, but what they think about it, and therefore, unfortunately, i think, the president's entourage, this potential conflict

as much as possible inflated by using it for their own purposes. thank you, mr. oleksiy, yesterday president zelenskyi, after the supreme commander-in-chief's meeting, announced the need to speed up the construction of fortifications near the front line. let's listen to what zelensky said, let's go, the first fortification, we are strengthening it significantly, there were detailed reports at all levels, the general staff , the ministry of defense, the prime minister, the regional government, the commanders of osuv, all the finances are there, all the solutions are there, it must be fully appropriate work in communities, everything is absolutely detailed, our state will definitely have enough mines and concrete, we need more speed and efficiency. and everyone who is responsible for it has clear tasks. mr. oleksiy, this is the impression that i am listening to volodymyr zelenskyi, two years before, until this moment

, a good phrase, this hasla, and they were late, about three or four years, you understand that this fortification and the work had to be carried out immediately, as soon as he came to power, there really was money for it, because how much was written off for large-scale construction, for... well, not very necessary objects, and it is absolutely understandable that if the country was preparing for war, then in the first place turn, that's it fortification objects, and mines, fields, and so on and the like, of course, first of all in the southern direction, everyone now understands this, and the same in kyiv, well, in all directions, at least after the beginning of full-scale war on february 24, well, it is clear that everything had to be done, but i understand that the whole strategy was, well, so to speak, in one direction, no one considered options b and c, yes, that is, they considered how we would quickly return

occupied territories, let's return crimea, and that's it, a and we, this is very serious, now we feel that our own, not our, armed forces , people are dying there, ukrainians are dying, you know, fighters are dying there, and the pressure is enormous there , precisely because there were no military bases built there fortifications, which would allow, in the event of a not very successful counteroffensive, to actively defend themselves, well, but now the ministry is talking about the fact that this fortification will be done by businessmen, headed by the agency for the reconstruction of ukraine, this is not a businessman, it is rent, rent, it's state a businessman with his agency, which, this is a separate issue, i absolutely do not consider the employee to be an effective public administrator, even more so the head of such a powerful company, i think there will be many secrets revealed, because i

know the colossal cases that pass through this agency and these scandals, which are around him lately, they are not as trivial as it seems, well, you understand, these deputies, labaziuk and others, uh, this agency was built on the basis of the former ukraftodor, ukraftodor is very well known for his specialization, he built some roads , they were usually three, two, or three times more expensive than the world prices per kilometer of road that were written off there, well, one can only guess in kickbacks and everything else, so this agency, it should be taken under the microscope, but i don’t see now the authorities want to allow control over the colossal financial flows that are taking place today, i can say a few words about this, because i am trying to understand what is happening in the energy sector at energy companies, i am not responsible for any of my questions as the first deputy chairman of the energy committee , the head

temporary... special commission, i did not receive an adequate answer, because the state government, unfortunately, conducts audits, but all these audits are immediately under the hood there are secret, the police close them, the national, dbr, nabu, prosecutors, they simply close them and do not allow them to be made public, yes we are hiring ourselves and with the agency, so i am hoping, to be honest, for external control, one way or another it is money, our partners, it is their help, even if they do not go directly. there, it's all natively one boiler, and i think that they are primarily interested in controlling, and estimate, and the real effectiveness of these fortifications. well, if the enterprises of the energy complex, which suffered and are suffering from the shelling of the russian occupiers, last year, especially, these companies had a hard time, then with the construction of fortifications, what a restoration of ukraine it is.

if it is the destruction of trenches and dugouts, that is, well, why, well, let’s face it, for today it is the demand of the time and the demand of the situation at the front, and you see what kind of counteroffensive is coming from the side of the russian army, first of all, poddeivka, kupyansk and so on, and the like, and today only, only our soldiers, who are in the trenches dug there with a hasty hand, you understand. wet there with water there for half a meter, only they can tell us and you what a properly built line of defense is, battle lines and commanders, appropriate, who know what it is to defend positions, if they are correctly echeloned, according to all laws, fortifications are built there, or if these are hand-dug trenches, and people are dying because of it, and many ukrainians are dying because of it, it's absolutely clear, i'm not up to that, i'm not

up to questioning the necessity the construction of these fortifications, i mean, the agency for the reconstruction of ukraine, it deals with what the ministry of defense of ukraine should be doing, what, well, no, well, i could, i could agree, but actually, we talk a lot about these fortifications, fortifications, well, in fact , we had to take care from the beginning of the war and in the 14th year, to be honest, let's say we can in that period, well, we remember this wall. which was built by yatsenyak's government at the time, well, it looked funny, there, let's be frank, why is it really in the armed forces of ukraine there are no engineering units, well, i can remind you of the army that was there before, well , it is clear how powerful there were always both engineering units and railway troops, which were ready to build bridges,