[000:00:00;00] yes no, 77 believe that there is interest, 23 that no, in 15 minutes we return to the studio, do not switch, be with us, nato countries promise support to ukraine, but for a long time, we are talking about this on bbc news ukraine live from london, i am yevhennia shedlovska. united states secretary of state antony blinken assures that the allies are not tired of helping ukraine, but if we talk about the united states, then a large package of military aid for ukraine is stuck in congress there, and it is not known what the support will be after the american presidential elections. elections why are we talking about western

support for ukraine? this is. discussed by the ministers of foreign affairs of the nato countries, meeting in brussels. yesterday there was a meeting of only members of the alliance, and today a meeting of the ukraine-nato council took place in an extended circle with a representative of ukraine. what kind of advice is this? this is such an upgrade in kyiv's relations with the alliance, a format that appeared this summer after the nato summit in vilnius. more than a partnership, a conversation on equal terms, this is how this nato meeting place fits. and at today's meeting in brussels discussed the reforms needed by ukraine on the way to nato for better compatibility with the alliance, and yes, expressed support, here are some quotes from the final statement of the meeting of the ukraine nato council: the first at the level of foreign ministers. allies remain committed to their commitment to further increase political and practical support for ukraine, and will continue to provide support for as long as necessary, and a strong and independent ukraine is vital to stability in the euro-atlantic region, these are the wordings, and it is important that today

the representative of the united states assured that the support of ukraine in the war with russia will not stop. here's what us secretary of state anthony blinken said. some question whether the united states and other nato allies should continue to support ukraine as we enter a second winter of putin's brutality. but the answer today in nato is clear and unwavering. we must and we will support ukraine. why is this the position of the united states, at least publicly stated. important for nato, that's exactly what the correspondent was talking about bbc in brussels. today's nato meeting was a strong signal of support for ukraine. in the last hour that i have been here, i have seen several foreign ministers. in their interviews, they all repeated the same thing, that there is no fatigue with ukraine, but in brussels there were still concerns about the united states of america and its ability to continue, at the same time,

supporting ukraine and the middle east. and this is important, because the usa is the most powerful member of nato. so anthony blinken used this meeting to reassure the allies of nato, that the us will continue to support ukraine and that this is what is needed, but in reality , things are a little more complicated, nato has sent a lot of aid to ukraine, especially when it comes to a wide range of weapons, but their expectations from kyiv in the last few months, regarding the return of the territories have not... been implemented. there has been much talk of a counter-offensive, but many believe it has been overblown. so there are countries like hungary or slovakia that are not very interested in sending additional aid to ukraine. so the situation is complicated, but in general, the message nato wants to send today is continued support for kyiv. oleksandr kraev, an expert of the ukrainian prizma analytical center, is also on our air. welcome

to the air. what do these words mean, which the americans repeat that the usa will support ukraine as long as it takes, in their understanding, this is how much, and in general in ukraine, the united states, a common understanding of how much it will take, unfortunately, yes, yes, congratulations, i hear you well, unfortunately, unfortunately, can't hear the studio, well, about the importance, unfortunately, therefore, you have to to understand that despite the very difficult political season in the usa, which comes precisely because of the approach of the presidential elections, which comes because of the approach of the elections to the congress, helping ukraine, as both

democrats and republicans recognize, is a part of it. national interests of the united states, only the trumpists oppose such a notion, but as we can see, despite the active presence of the media, they are in principle in the minority, so although there are indeed... quite complex pre-election debates, we still see settings like the minimum of the senate and the presidential administration, together with the pentagon, that ukraine should receive both interim budgets for the functioning of the armed forces and a full-fledged large package for the next year. the only problem that still remains unsolved is more of a political one, which is what the united states means by the end. so far, unfortunately, they are only limited to commenting on the end that ukraine will choose for itself. please stay in touch with us, it's good that we have an established connection with you. and now about the importance support for ukraine, nato secretary general jen stoltenberg also spoke in an interview with the bbc. in particular, this is what he answered when asked if he thinks that the support of some nato countries has wavered after the ukrainian

counteroffensive did not achieve the expected results. the front lines have not fundamentally changed over the past few months. but let's not forget where it all started. at the beginning of the invasion, most experts and customs. it was feared that ukraine would fall in a matter of weeks, that russia would capture kyiv in a few days, this did not happen. the ukrainians were rejected by the russians in the north, in the east in the kharkiv region and in the south near kherson. these are great victories, they freed 50% of the entire territory captured by the russians at the beginning of the invasion. that's what's important. this demonstrates the bravery and courage of ukrainian defenders combined with the support of nato allies. let's say britain provided cruise missiles to the stormshadows. the european allies provided modern battle tanks, the united states, of course , key weapons that significantly change the forces on the battlefield. but ukraine lacks fairly simple things, such as ammunition. let's say that they received only 300 of

the promised million artillery shells from yes. warm words of support are not enough. where will the ukrainians get the ammunition they need. yes, we have to produce. more, now a war of attrition, these are battles for the endurance of logistics, that is, the ability to supply and replenish the supplies of the military at the front. this has been clear for a long time, we are working on increasing the production of weapons, the allies have already started to increase such production, but we need to do it faster, this was one of the issues that we considered at this meeting, a few weeks ago we had a meeting with representatives of the defense industry, the production of weapons is increasing, both to replenish our... own stocks and to provide weapons to ukraine. you know that kyiv is worried about the statements of certain nato members, such as viktor orbán in hungary or robert fice in slovakia. and now

the far-right candidate geertwilders has won in the netherlands as well. that's how scared you are by the prospect that the unity of nato's position on ukraine will be undermined. the message of this meeting is that we are one. prisoners of ukraine and we will continue to do so. of course, i cannot speak on behalf of individual members of the alliance, but slovakia, for example, has assured that it will provide ukraine with critically important weapons. slovakia is also an important hub for repairing equipment. so the message from us is that we will continue to support ukraine , as a sign of solidarity with ukraine, as well as solidarity with ourselves, because it is in our own interests, to do everything for the victory of ukraine, because if president putin wins in ukraine. then it will be a tragedy for ukrainians, but also a threat for all of us, because it will show what by using military force, violating international law, he achieved what he wanted, and this cannot be allowed, that is why we should support ukraine, because it is in our

interests, can i ask you specifically about the usa, because it is more than 50% of aid to ukraine, we we see that congress reluctantly supports the statements of antony blinken and president biden about helping ukraine. at least for now, are you preparing for a scenario where american support might disappear? yes, the usa is really important, about half of military aid to ukraine is american, but that's it means the other half is coming from other nato members, not least the uk but also other allies and they just made fresh announcements, germany is giving an additional 8 billion, the netherlands is for ukraine, so the allies are stepping up support, what about to the united states, i will say the following: congress has broad bipartisan support for further aid to ukraine, because otherwise moscow and beijing receive a signal

that when they have power, they can do whatever they want. oleksandr kraev, expert of the analytical center ukrainian prism is with us in touch it is in the interests of the united states to support ukraine. that's what jans stoltenberg, the head of nato, just said. but how do you...' still consider the scenario that europe can be left alone with the aggression of russia? such a scenario is really being considered, and we see practical confirmation of it, we see that, for example, germany. doubled the budgets it is ready to allocate to ukraine. we see that both britain and france continue their course of very close cooperation with ukraine, as in the format of an alliance, as well as in a two-sided format. also, let's not forget about poland's plans to gradually build up its own army so that in a few years it will be the largest in europe, and at the same time, despite border problems and economic troubles, poland is still ready to provide and continue to provide weapons to ukraine, so don't mind it. on the reliability, so to speak , of the american rear, europe is preparing for

any scenario. well, why are they talking about it, because in the united states the presidential election is not far off, it is november next year, and support for ukraine will depend on their results. if conditionally, the republicans will win the election. for example, for example, trump comes back, so what? if trump returns, we are entering a period of predictable unpredictability. we need to understand that the return of trump is first of all... the impossibility of calculating what will be done, what supplies will be provided, what will be the support, what will be the relations with ukraine, with russia, even with the european allies of the united states, that is, it really the most critical moment, although many among the republicans say that trump's campaign donors, among whom there are a lot of military corporations, will lead him to think that cooperation with ukraine is surplus and profitable, but this is trump's unpredictability. will be a very, very difficult period for

both ukraine and the allies, we simply will not be able to get this help, because it will depend on the opinion, and sometimes even on the mood of one particular person. well, but still, the ukrainian government is counting on a two-party system support, both democrats and republicans, but still, some support ukraine a little more, others a little less, can you say that? and we can say so, thanks to the trumpists, that is, if the trumpists were not so against ... things with their own party, if they, through their own political machinations and attempts to influence the house of representatives, did not essentially control the voting process in the republican party, if all this were not was, then the republicans would really be much more resolutely united around the issue of ukraine. we see that out of more than 220 republicans in the house of representatives, only about 70-90 vote against certain ukrainian amendments. at that time, as in the hay. republicans absolutely clearly and consistently support the majority

of pro-ukrainian amendments. so yes, unfortunately, because of the supporters, i would say, even the cultists of donald trump, we have this situation. well, what is happening now in the democratic camp. for example, we see that the administration of president biden, in order to increase support among americans for providing aid to ukraine, is spreading information about which states, how much do they earn for the supply of weapons to ukraine, i.e. production, which contract, what among the democrats? democrats are relatively united, that is, if earlier we could talk about the division of the camp of democrats into moderates and progressives, progressives , that is, count the socialists, now the socialist camp has weakened significantly and, in principle, biden was able to unite the party around himself, and despite all warnings , especially with regard to biden's health and age, we understand that the party is counting on him, we understand that the party is behind him mountain, and the last vote in both the house of representatives and the senate.

show that, firstly, the position of the democratic party is purely pro-ukrainian, and secondly, we see that the democrats vote in a very disciplined manner, that is, in principle, there are no disagreements within the party itself, which are very actively present among the republicans, and thus we already we see that the midterm elections in several states, the vote on the constitution of several states were won by the democrats, against the background of the republicans, the democrats really become very, very organized. thank you, oleksandr kraev, an expert of the ukrainian prizma analytical center, was in touch with us. well, this concludes our issue, we talked about the meeting of the council of ukraine, nato , in which the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine said that he heard a categorical no to any hints of war fatigue in ukraine and a categorical yes, the continuation and increase

of support for ukraine . that's it, until tomorrow. greetings, friends, the live broadcast of the tv channel continues with the verdict program, my name is serhii rudenko, today i am in the program. political strife in kyiv, how intra-ukrainian conflicts will push the west to make concessions to putin, and how to deal with it, bezuglla against the hard-working. why did nardepka criticize the head of the maz and will it cost her her position? a hint from the event or a fixation of the fact that yermak is the green cardinal of kyiv, for which politician he was named among the most influential people in europe? friends, today we are conducting a survey, we are asking you

about whether, in your opinion, there is a conflict between the civilian and military leadership of ukraine, yes no, please vote in our application and on our platforms. on youtube and facebook, and you can also pick up a smartphone and vote on the numbers, if you see this conflict, or know about this conflict, vote on the number 0800-21-381, not 0800-21-382, all calls to these numbers are free, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote , before starting our conversation with the guests of our current studio, we will watch a video of how the defense forces of ukraine destroyed the occupying buk-3 self-propelled anti-aircraft missile system, the cost

of the car 40 million dollars, let's see.

friends, today in our studio are the best political experts, political scientists and political technologists of ukraine. so, olesya yakhno, political expert, mrs. olesya, i congratulate you and i am glad to see you on our air. congratulations, mutual. oleksiy holobutskyi, political technologist. mr. oleksiy, i congratulate you, thank you for joining our broadcast. congratulations. volodymyr tsebulko, political expert. mr. volodymyr, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. good evening, dear company. dear and respected society, i am glad that you are all with us today on the air, because. and today's topic is precisely such that precisely in order for you to draw certain conclusions of your own, we ask our guests, and the guests we have first of all on youtube and on tv, whether they see a conflict between, or whether according to them, the conflict between the civilian and military

leadership of ukraine, let's answer this rather simple question in the format of a blitz poll, mrs. olesya, what do you think? is there a conflict or not? no, i believe that there is no conflict between the military and civilians, moreover, nor between the government and the opposition, but certain contradictions with regarding the vision of possible tactics and strategy, both in terms of communication and concrete actions, i admit that these contradictions exist, but not a conflict, because in fact, a conflict is a vision of something global, i think that it is the same for everyone today, and there can be contradictions... and i think that to some extent they are. mr. volodymyr, well, there is frank trolling on the part of the political authorities, the personal commander-in-chief of the army, that is , there are no

claims against other military commanders, and if, for example, general budanov publishes some of his articles somewhere in the foreign press, there is no criticism of him, or publications... for example, general syrskyi does not cause any irritation, that is, there is jealousy on the part of the bank for, well, the high authority of general zaluzhno. mr. oleksiy, do you think there is a conflict between the civilian and military leadership of ukraine? well, i would say yes, if there really is a conflict, there would be a conflict between the military and civilians, exactly a conflict, yes, then i think that we would already feel it and no one would bet even 5 kopecks on the fate of ukraine in this war that's why i still think that it's not a conflict , because let's still use words...' which carry, well, a clear meaning, a conflict is a war, we understand, in

wartime, that's all, that, that means, that either the civilians, the civilian authorities want to shift responsibility to the military, or the military want to shift responsibility to civilians, and such conflicts in history end very badly for these countries, so this is not a conflict, this is a desired... scenario for russia that in principles, considering the weakness of our institutions and dependence on copper the dependence of many representatives of the government and the military in our country, it's just, well, it's really simple that something must be said, it must be said publicly , of course it can turn into a conflict situation, for which i wrote the news today that the political threat in kyiv and the drop in zelenskyi's rating, that there is

a tense political field, or political lines, between the military and political leadership, when russia began its invasion on february 22, writes the publication competitive politics fell into hibernation, she returned when the existential threat to ukraine decreased at the end of the same year, after this publication came out... and the adviser to the head of the office of the president of ukraine mykhailo podalyak said that there is no conflict or no misunderstandings of a political threat in ukraine, and stefanchuk said that this is propaganda of the russian federation, there has never been a single case of tension between the political and military leadership, but when the head of the parliament or the speaker of the parliament says that there never was and there is none... in case of tension, i think that the three of you are definitely reading and

seeing what is happening now in social networks, and one person who is constantly doing it and trying to create this tension is mariana bezugla, a people's deputy of ukraine from the servant of the people , the deputy head of the parliamentary committee on national security and defense, if she does something wrong, or, if it is not denied by the leader of the party or, the leader or political leader of this party, volodymyr zelenskyi, does this mean that they share this opinion, that is, it has been going on for two or three weeks, maybe four weeks, and it looks, well, not trolling at all, it is actually a serious thing, when a people 's deputy from monovlad demands the resignation of the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, mrs. olesya, that's how to perceive what bezugla is doing now, and is it really related to the competence of the commander

-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, does maryana bezugla have enough arguments for him to resign, why these questions that he should resign , she does not articulate to the supreme commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, because, in principle, what is being done by zaluzhny is done under the leadership of volodymyr zelenskyi, well, after all. everything related to the war, directly to our actions, to our tactics, strategy, behavior, i still look at personalities, and not in the context of certain statements, personalities, well, at least i am starting to look at it that way, i read every day, various publications in various foreign media, and just yesterday i noted for myself, there was a statement from nato representatives that ukraine has a vision of the next

stage of the war and how it should be conducted. therefore, returning to your question, and globally, regardless of who makes what statements and refutes them or not , we still understand that we are in a long war, this is already being talked about, well, practically everyone, it also sounds essentially , a discussion, well, in particular, from a former nato insider about the fact that it is necessary or not necessary to provide guarantees to the occupied territories in the process of joining nato, that is, some security option is being considered in the presence of war, when it is obvious that no agreement and more will be signed, then i am convinced that there will be no negotiations in the near future, so i believe that the problem is not a conflict between specific personalities. or misunderstandings, these misunderstandings may arise, we cannot rule them out

, but the main thing is not the attitude of one or another personality, let's say politicians to the military or military to politicians, but there is a problem of seeing the real behavior of ukraine itself, in the conditions when it is changing the external configuration is obviously not quite ours benefit, yes, we have support, we constantly hear that support for ukraine will continue, we see that ukraine is moving to the format of bilateral, so-called security guarantees, which essentially mean the provision of... military aid on different terms for different countries, but still we see how the debate is taking place in the united states against the background of the presidential campaign, how the election results are in different countries, and the fact that there is still a certain fatigue from the long war, it is there, therefore the situation for ukraine is becoming

more difficult, those all the points he wrote about in his article, zaluzhnyi also talks about the problems of mobilization, they also exist, these problems exist in russia as well, but quantitatively russia so far, yes, it is taking in numbers, trying to outdo ukraine in this way, i think that the real problem is if it arises, it really is that we need to articulate very clearly our vision in these conditions of what we can get the maximum, what we can... get the minimum, and what we will present to society as a victory when we are at war pay off the so-called, about what did he say to the stalemated or deadlocked war, society still needs some victories, and i think that in part, even if this security flank, which is both a front and which will be preserved, there should still be concrete

changes inside ukraine as well , which relate to... the political part, which relate to political reforms , so i would consider this problem not along the lines of a conflict between the military or politicians, when someone may have criticism of someone or, for example, some claims, but along the lines of what the military should work out its strategy and the tactics of seeing our further actions in the conditions of a long war, and politicians should move on to working out... their tactics and strategy regarding the rear, in order to show society the changes inside ukraine, especially since we do not need to invent something, we have criteria prescribed in the framework of the movement towards the european union, statements were also made today within the framework of the meeting of ukraine nato, the council of ukraine nato regarding reforms, there is no need to invent anything here either, so here i think

that this, well, if the transition period, when we we understand that the war... i understand that there may be problems in society, including in tom, including in ukrainian society, despite the fact that military actions on the part of russia, they continue, disinformation campaigns continue, there is an external situation, and it is necessary to rebuild somehow, and especially to rebuild communication, that's why various statements, including those of bezugllui and other statements, i think they reflect not so much the real... things that exist in relationships, or in attitudes or in aspirations for real actions, and which are an element, well, more of an informational one, it seems to me, and i think that politicians, regardless of whether it is the government or the opposition, should still be more active from the point of view,

well, not informational campaigns, and specific proposals, as needed... to build communication not among ourselves, but with society , in order for society to, well, keep, well, you know, still in this state of mobilization, and to still show victories in that including internal political components. thank you, ms. olesya, mr. volodymyr, that's what we're saying, and right now we're trying to explain what's happening, and whether it could have happened like this and whether or not it's like this, it's banal that... there is zelsky's rating, which, as they say, i am a little confused in connection with the corruption scandals that are currently in power, there is a rating of the industrious, and the rating of the industrious is a rating from the zsu, that is , people trust the zsu, people trust the industrious, well, accordingly, in this category, are there any , closed, closed sociology, maybe these are the results of closed sociology

that we see, maybe we don't... know this,