[000:00:00;00] the impression is that the representatives of the monopoly power are trying to torpedo the industrious, at this time in the president's office they say, well, there are no questions at all, well, there is marryana bezugla, who is trying to get the industrious to resign, but she is a people's deputy, and what is her relationship to all that , especially the deputy head of the parliamentary committee on national security and defense. mr. serhiy, i have a question for you as a political scientist, as a person who understands political technologies, how would you describe what what is happening with regard to valery zaluzhnyi, because there is a political torpedo, mariana bezugla, and she is constantly just torpedoing, and the president's office says that there are no problems at all, mr. serhiy, you hear, yes, yes, now i hear, well, you see

, we said at the beginning of the program when... freedom of speech is prohibited in the country, and political problems will mount, then political problems will appear in foreign media, and every time this problem appears in foreign media, she will return to ukraine, but much increased, and secondly, our international partners will see and will talk about what you are asking about what is happening in ukraine, if we read about it, they cannot read about it from food. marathon, and from western journalists who do not work in the mode of a single national marathon , they can write anything they want, and as a result, a distorted situation of what is happening in ukraine is created, there is no open political threat, of course, because there is no open policy, well if only because the hard worker has no party, but of course when a member of parliament from the ruling majority speaks openly, well, not even with criticism, but simply

with an attempt to destroy, a hardworking person, it raises suspicion, and by the way, no one objects to her from her own faction, it raises suspicion that that there is probably an internal political struggle, and it is also no secret that the specter of elections, from which i hope we have already gotten rid of, probably forced vladnikola to do testing, including ordering various sociological surveys to services, where they would check potential competitors. and i have a serious one suspicion that according to these sociological surveys , zaluzhnyi fell into that category of people, persons who, if they participated in the campaign, could be a competitor of the current government. this is possible and annoys some representatives of the authorities. so far, this is evident in the fact that some representatives criticize zaluzhny. but i have no doubt that if we had an open policy, other representatives of the government would join in. but in general, of course, this is a very abnormal situation and i would very much not

like it. it was such a threat because yana interferes with the country's defense capabilities and undermines it the trust of our partners, well, obviously, such and such torpedoing of the hard worker, it will still throw him into the political plane, because yushchenko was also a banker and did not want to go to the presidential elections, and he spoke openly about it, but here is the constant torpedoing by the team kuchma, it forced him to become president, because, well, history repeats itself, there is nothing, let’s say, new, the only thing is that the representatives of the servants of the people probably don’t know this history, so they probably need to conduct a likbes, how it all happens, mr. andriy , what do you think, in this situation, do they leave zaluzhny a choice, or does zaluzhnyi have no choice, because no matter what they do, now with him, in principle, valery

zaluzhnyi will become a political figure, although, i emphasize once again, no political he did not show any ambitions, he did not say that he wanted to be president, he did not say that he wanted to create his own party, it's just that the level of trust in zaluzhnogo is equal to the level of trust in the armed forces, and the level of trust in the armed forces is 93%. i will repeat my thesis once again, a diligent politician, like any other officer, because war is a continuation of politics only with other instruments, this again may be news to some, but that's how it works all over the world. if the same bank technologists had dragged the peaceful format into our normal politics, it was the same, as you well remember, from the time of yushchenko and zelsky, they started to drag slava vakarchuk into it, this is when the name of a popular person starts to be inserted into the survey, and it starts to flicker, flicker , if she has any reputation, then in this way she

is actually turned into a political subject, even if... it is not like that, and we have seen many such cases, but now it has already gone very far at the level of public communication and public hate, which is around the publications, first of all, of some figures of the servant of the people faction, and what you showed us podolyak, well, it's sorry, to put it mildly, it's not enough, first of all, i don't want to offend, but who is he, he's an adviser to the office, who repeatedly said things there that did not have any positive consequences, as a westerner we should already be in the crimea with you, because in april, if i am not mistaken, he promised that in 5-7 months, we will take crimea, and this is very dangerous, because if such messages are relayed, and then they turn out to be unreachable, this is very demotivating, that is,

the nearby should now equalize situation, volodymyr oleksandrovich practices this daily communication well, it is good that he records these daily videos talking to people, so he does not need to invent anything, he just needs to very calmly deny all the rumors in his next evening address and to assure everyone of consolidation and total unity, which, again, he also needs, because without this, we have a very slim chance of achieving anything, and speaking again about the office's ability to influence its deputies, well, excuse me, it was about a week and a half ago there was a well-known story in my committee, when some active members of our committee decided to vote their version of the law on the special anti-corruption prosecutor's office, it happened somewhere at two o'clock in the afternoon, the beginning of

the third, it seems to be the fourth district head of the committee was in the president's office and at 5 o'clock we convened the committee again and everything was re-voted silently, quickly, reactively, i would say, that is , the bank, when it really does not like something in the activities of its deputies, reacts instantly and has such tools of influence, therefore, that they are still silent, namely zelenskyi, i emphasize again that the distance here is not enough, and the political leadership of the servant of the people party is silent, the same mariana is dumb, she is not just some stray deputy, she is a member of the faction, she is a member governing bodies party, and this is a matter of political politics, accordingly, the party should give at least some reaction, i am not saying that it should support, there should refute, but at least some reaction, because this whole story has a huge public resonance, but the party is silent as well,

well, as of the moment of our conversation, i don't think there have been any comments from the party , so we remain in a state of political turbulence that we ourselves have provoked, and sorry, i'll end with what you asked, me too for the last three days... no such very ugly messages came: who is bad guys, they ask me who is the bad guy, what should we do? i know for a fact that two delegations have canceled their visits to ukraine next week, because they do not want to be caught between two fires in a state of some internal tension, and they are waiting, and i fear that this will have an impact, even worse, on our relations with the west in the issue of receiving aid, with which we have obvious...problems , well, ms. maria, i actually wanted to ask about this, how is this fanning of this conflict in the media, in the media environment, because we

now we are observing a copper conflict, we have not seen the conflict, maybe it exists behind the door of politics, we have not seen the public conflict that exists, but the leading world press is writing about it, the representatives of various... states are focusing on this press, and it is clear that from it depends on the attitude of the west towards the government they help or give weapons to, how all this will shape the image of ukraine , and whether what happened and what is happening without comment can be considered simply a communication failure of the current government. mr. serhiu, already mr. andriy also gave his definition that in fact everything can be changed and solved by zelenskyi, moreover, zelenskyi can discuss all problematic issues in the position of supreme commander -in-chief, let's win, win, and then we will think about competitors, and this is the first

it is the turn of the country's president to realize, because everything that is happening now, unfortunately, will have consequences for the country, for our state, for our armed forces, and i'm sorry, i will not discuss maryana, because she will not take a step without and that they will not tell her from banking, but she must bear political responsibility, for some reason she did not appear at the meeting of the last committee, where she was supposed to be removed from the head of the subcommittee on civilian control over the security and defense sector, and we very much support the resolution, the author of which is venislavskyi , i will remind you, this is a servant of the people, where she can also be removed and the deputy chairman of the committee, that is, when you talk about podalyak, who is he, is he an adviser on public grounds, and what responsibility does he bear for his words, let me become an official adviser , officially speaks on behalf of the president, on behalf of the president's office, and we will see later, because unfortunately, after all, only this issue should be decided and put an end to this issue

by the president of the country, because now is not the time when things are happening and really being asked the question is what is going on between zelenskyi and zaluzhny, sorry, there are no elections, no one is announcing elections, it is important for us to win, win, and then really, as already mentioned, in six months to start the election process, if the circumstances allow at all to do this, now we need to think about the front, about providing for our armed forces. and about the continuation of international support and the continuation of financial support, including to our budget. we already see with you, in fact, how politics and leaders in the countries of the free world are changing, well, the segment is also changing, we must realize that we are not tired of, let's say that the world is not tired of ukraine, so that... we

all realize , that we have all the means for our people as much as possible, ah, i really hope that now this is a communication failure, and he the president of ukraine will put an end to it, he must take this responsibility, he is actually his commander-in-chief, and must protect him, especially when we have, well, actually a rather difficult situation at the front, we should think only about this now, draw conclusions and no one else such, i'm sorry, comfortable dogs, unfortunately, i lost contact with maria ionova, we thank maria for joining the air of tv channel uso, unfortunately, she is currently on the road, and that's why you see such a terrible connection. friends, we let's take a short break, and you don't switch, because it will be interesting from now on, andriy osadchuk and serhiy taran are staying with us.

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nervous system. friends, we are live on tv channel as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are currently watching us live on youtube and facebook, please like this video so that it can be trended on youtube and facebook , and also take part in the vote , today we are asking you about whether the ukrainian government demonstrates unity, well today is today, so everything is quite simple on youtube, yes no, but if you are sitting with a smartphone for tv, then please vote for the number 0800-211-381, no, 0800 211-382, all calls to these numbers are available. free of charge, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. i would like to remind you that today we have on the air andrii asatchuk, people's deputy of ukraine, the voice faction, and serhiy taran, a political scientist, a former deputy of the kyiv city council, and we are talking about the situation that is developing in the country, another rather important front

that exists in ukraine - it is the fight against corruption, that is, the domestic front and every day brings a lot of news about what is happening in power in the judicial power, in the executive power, in the legislative power , reports appear every day that bribes are being taken from certain persons, well , there was a report that nabu and sab exposed four judges of the kyiv court of appeal on received a bribe in the amount of 35,000 dollars for making the right decision, well, actually, this is probably not the last such exposure, we see that the anti-corruption infrastructure still catches corrupt people, we also know that both the european union and nato are demanding , in order to ukraine has overcome corruption, we are overcoming, we are overcoming this corruption, we are overcoming, we are overcoming this corruption, well, we simply will not reach the point of overcoming it, mr. serhiy, what do you think, what is the problem, is ukraine

the most corrupt country in the world, what do we they constantly reproach us that we are a corrupt state, the system is corrupt, that this system is built incorrectly, and this system must be rebuilt, and we are constantly poked in the face of this corruption, well, now any corruption scandal resonates extremely loudly in the west, because in the west opponents of the supply of weapons to ukraine, of course, use the argument that ukraine is a very corrupt country, therefore any corruption scandal in ukraine now increases 10 times in the western media, now western politicians, and of course, then the issue of providing weapons to ukraine comes back to us sideways, but, of course, little has changed with corruption, unfortunately both before and after the war, because the same political force was in power before and after the war, and before and after the war we had the same

citizens, the same officials, those themselves habits, unfortunately, well, i say this very sincerely, but the war did not allow ukrainian society to understand that corruption must end, otherwise it can simply be one of the factors that will lead, well, let's say this, not to the victory of ukraine, and therefore well, nothing has changed in the grand scheme of things, but the fact that now a lot depends on the support of the west, and the so-called anti-corruption rhetoric, where they have, sometimes it has absolutely full grounds in the west is connected with the issue of providing weapons, this issue becomes very sharp and of course for ukraine it will not disappear after the end of the war, because right now, when the negotiations on ukraine's accession to the european union will begin, when they are now looking for models of how to involve ukraine in nato, the issue of reforms and the fight against corruption will certainly arise, and it will not disappear at least because, again, for many

opponents of ukrainian integration into the eu, corruption will become such a convenient, convenient topic to talk about, so now, well, it seems to me, the government... has just very clearly understand that now we are not talking about corruption as a problem that is connected only with the government, which influences some officials there, it is not a problem of some officials there in separate offices, it is a problem that can threaten and already threatens the national security of the country, and it must be treated accordingly , and by the way, i believe that now, in such conditions , in which we find ourselves, it is critically important to speak about it honestly, not to be closed, because in a day and age with the presence of social networks and foreign media, these questions will still get out and get out much more worse, so it is necessary to open at least political discussion in terms of the fight against corruption, and then, then at least corruption will be less, because many corrupt people now find it very convenient to refer to the wartime, many of them may think

that no one will talk about their actions, because there will be no way , because there is no freedom of speech, and the lack of direct freedom of speech in political, i emphasize, again, in political, not censorship issues, which touch on military activities, but the lack of open discussion only exacerbates the problem, and we will see, unfortunately, the development of this problem further, until we see real honest landings of representatives of the authorities, and not only such, you know, petty criminals, small crooks, but also the highest level, including olarchy tylics. at one time were involved in the creation of this government. mr. andrii, mr. serhiy mentioned the wartime and the fact that the time we are living in is a war, but at the time, it is also an opportunity to fight corruption in a completely different way,

it is simply necessary to understand that during military time, corruption, this is looting, and zelskyi says that this is treason, that is , it would be possible to raise the level in the fight against corruption and in the end put all the dots of hope, well, this is not normal, when we open the news every day, take and take at the highest level and delays. and people's deputies of ukraine, and judges, and officials of various levels, in your opinion, can the government fight effectively during wartime, or are there resources for that, in the end, to crush this corruption, it is clear that there power, there and corruption, in principle, it is probably correct to say so or not, one must be very responsible and professional in order to do a good job and not turn it into hype, we recently celebrated the 10th anniversary of the maidan, which

was actually an uprising , a little over a week ago against corruption, and 10 years is a very long time for institutional changes , it turns out that corruption is so bad in our country, and here it is necessary to analyze very well what, how we did, what worked, what did not work, and i always remind i have been working for the fifth year to the verkhovna rada that corruption is a consequence, it is not the cause, and whenever you ask me, let's be there, let's put someone very big there, well, it's the same as when you have a temperature of 42 and you've been injected with some drug , which brought down the temperature, but this is a consequence, we have to work with the causes, and we turn it into hype, because we really like beautiful words, but you sent me the word looting already on the second broadcast, we generally understand what such looting means, words matter, i'll... let you know looting is the theft of military property on the battlefield, this means looting, high treason also means very specific

things, and there are wonderful punishments for corruption in ukraine, for a modest bribe of uah 50,000, you can be imprisoned for 8-10 years. 10 years for an adult is a huge term, you can sit down for 15, that is, we are doing very well with punishments, we are... bad with the system, bad with priorities and bad with the implementation of laws, because it is very easy to turn everything into hype, but hard work, well, it is sometimes very uninteresting, and somehow difficult to communicate, it's hard to explain, that's why zelensky came to power for the fifth year already, with the slogans, spring will come, we will plant, and we are still like those, sorry calves, we dream that we must plant someone, but in fact we have corruption has planted a lot of people, if you look there over the last few years, but our system of state and municipal management does not work

, and at the same time, we are all, as citizens of ukraine, who are on the brink of disaster, because it is not known how far it will end confrontation with our enemy, we must always ask questions to each his own, once my old friend yevhen libovytsky eight or 10 years ago came up with a cool thesis about the existence of a public corruption consensus in ukraine, because all these so-called terrible corrupters, they did not fly from mars, not from pskov or st. petersburg, that is our people, especially not the majority of people who have been in office there for decades, since the maidan, and if you take the orange revolution in the last 20 years, we had about five cycles of rotation of virtually the entire system of power, that is, they are constantly coming new, new, new people, we we always dream of new faces and we end by saying that today we are talking to you, today there was a message about three or four judges of the court of appeal in

the city of kyiv, that is, we do not finalize many points, because it is hard work, we are constantly we turn everything into hype, we sometimes start to choke, because we have many professional people who are engaged in this, and now, when i talk to the americans who are responsible for our strategic issues, yes, they know about corruption in ukraine, but... no can be called a story about eggs and a story about jackets, because it was well communicated , they don't know other stories, the question is, what about the ministry of defense, which made tens of thousands of purchases and there were only two scandals, is this some kind of huge problem? actually no, although i am not at all bashing the ministry of defence, i am saying that we should also be very careful about our external communications, and here i fully agree with my colleague who says that there is a lot on our enemies, or indeed people who it doesn't matter what will happen to ukraine, they are looking for arguments, why not give us help, and the argument

that there are all corrupt people, it is wonderful, it is beautiful. measures, we give them billions, they steal them all , some ordinary voter in alabama, says, oh, yes, of course, that 's right, you say, let's not give aid, so everyone has to do their job very clearly, and the what , let's end on a good note, there today there, nabu detained, four judges of the court of appeal, that's very good, but why is this happening, because we failed the judicial reform, because when in 2019, in october, the voice faction, i personally... begged the servants of the people not to vote for that shill, which they called judicial reform, no one listened to us, we told them then that we would lose at least three years, at least, and it happened, we have just now got the supreme council of justice, vkks, on its feet, we just voted there two weeks ago on the law on disciplinary inspectors of the supreme council of justice, that is, we are

only now molding this whole complex judicial architecture. a form that, if desired , could be made, excuse me, back in the 19th year, therefore, yes, we have such judges, because there were neither resources nor mechanisms to remove them from there, so it is good that nabu is doing his job, i thank them for that, but this work should first of all be done by the supreme council of justice, which should filter unscrupulous judges, unfortunately, this will all happen, this whole filter is in the near future, in the best case, one and a half to two years, so the answer to your question is very simple, who undertook to fight corruption, in fact, did a bad job. thank you, mr. andriy, mr. serhiy, the very end of ours programs, how do you predict how long corruption will live in ukraine? you know, no country would have it, but i would really like for us now to have the fight against corruption as the first problem, so that all other problems

related to the war would have already ended. i think that when in... ukraine begins to fully join the european union , our european partners, having the experience of joining the european union, many other countries of eastern and central europe, where there were very similar problems, will be able to work with us on those plans, which would significantly reduce corruption in society. the whole of eastern and central europe, in the 90s there was corruption, now in eastern central europe , well, it certainly exists, but it is not on a large scale, so i hope that ukraine will integrate into the european community and will continue to make reforms , in no way retreat from democracy, i hope again that we will finally see freedom of speech, and not the only marathon in ukraine, and we will understand that these are precisely the paths that ukraine should follow, which will help

us to overcome corruption, and of course the inevitability of punishments for everyone and the lack of political involvement, by the way, during the fight against corruption, this is also very important, because in our country, it turns out that there are some law enforcement agencies, they begin to fight only with political forces and do not fight with others, this should also end with us, and again, my high hopes for the european integration of ukraine, i think that with the completion of this process, i hope that in a few years ukraine, and i am not even sure that ukraine should become a member of the european union, and then we have definitely less corruption. thank you, we have to conclude, serhiy taran, andriy osadchuk were guests of our program today, also maria ionova, thank you for participating in the program , i would like to remind you that during this program we conducted a survey, you were asked about whether the ukrainian government demonstrates unity today, let's see the results of the telephone survey, yes, 10%, no, 90% , these are the results of today's survey, it was a verdict program conducted by serhii rudenko, i wish everyone good

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