towards china, because these are problems not only between russian-ukrainian relations, but also between ukrainian-chinese ones, we are undermining the very railway that is important for the people's republic of china, that is, we are sending a signal to china, we understand that you are our enemies and we we will act in such a way that you also have problems in the economy and precisely in that sector of the economy that is connected with russia, we can say that in this way the ukrainian authorities are clearly taking a course for confrontation with the people's republic of china, and realize that. ..' china is interested in helping russia because we had very constant hopes that the people's republic of china, i will give my opinion, i will give my opinion, we tried to organize this telephone conversation, or some other conversation between the president of ukraine and the head of the people's republic of china, in the end he called, it was a huge achievement, we shied away from any contact with taiwan, so as not to offend beijing. so that practically our chairman

of the committee on international relations of the verkhovna rada of ukraine could not visit the republic of china in taiwan, we can say that we resolutely returned that in principle the decision was made to have a confrontation with china. yes, i don't see any tragedy in this, but we have to be clearly aware of this, these explosions have created a new powerful real enemy for us, not just a country that pretends to be a neutral country, and it was not she who organized the action against us, but we against it. her, we were the first to show her that we can, these are good consequences of such a story, yes, of course, because we are fighting with russia and china, and china will find opportunities to help russia in another area, it's clear, but we have to cut off their ties, it's true, but we have to clearly say to ourselves, are we really russia, china, iran, north korea, these are countries that will do everything possible to make ukraine disappear from the political map of the world , we don't need to look for connections where we can. to run into chinese interests

, that's where we run into, well, of course, there, when it comes to russian-chinese relations, we are not interested in domestic economic, china, we are interested in china not helping russia with weapons, so that china does not buy oil, so it is necessary to do so that in terms of energy, china did not receive anything from russia, that it was looking for new sources of income, but china will also react, it is also necessary to understand what this reaction can be, how we will feel it, of different types, will transfer its projectiles to north korea him in china, i assure you, many opportunities to show that he is ready, more than we have, we don't know if they didn't transfer before, i don't know, i think they transferred, if you want to know my point of view, they transferred, they can increase this story, but again is it out of revenge or they did it anyway because i'm going down the wrong path again let 's not do something because they will take revenge on us, i'm not saying that, i'm just saying that then i think we have it consider it as the fact that our authorities have clearly taken a course on confrontation with china, if this is the case, we may

not be able to see the appearance of a representative office of taipei in kyiv. if it is not so, if by themselves, they are not doing each other with one hand, they do not understand what they are doing, then nothing will happen, that's all, that is, there will be unexpected consequences and everything, uh, well, look, this may indicate recognition and general understanding of the realities of today, something very similar is happening in the head, in particular, of president zelensky, who says: i and we recognize the counteroffensive there , there are problems, not everything is like that, it happened as it seemed that there are other points that are recognized, for example , fortifications, things that should be planned, just go regularly for two years already, and even earlier, now for some reason it is very actively articulated, can we say that now the leadership of our country, military political leadership. our country

has come to realize the new realities in which ukraine lives, not the borders of 1991, not the complete liberation of our territory by the end of some summer and so on, but simply at least effective defense against the russian federation, and understanding of the realities on the international arena, based on what you said about bama china, i believe that, in principle, reality is such a thing that we always meet at some point, it is always a question of when, we all need to depend on our understanding of the situation, competence, professionalism, that is a bright an example of meeting reality, it's february 24 , 2022, until the door knocks like this, i still meet many people who said, we didn't even think that this could happen, and why, well, everyone already told you, they just shouted, all the loudspeakers were blaring, but no , it's so simple, why can't it be like that, it can't be like that, because i don't want it to be like that, and then i want it to be like that, by the

way, about reality, we always said, we had one thing, such a clear program of actions, we are going to the borders of 1991. and russia is falling apart, for some reason i decided so , it’s true, that’s what i always said, i’m not a military expert, i can’t say whether we can go to the border of 1991 or not, maybe we can, that’s a question for the army, and not to me, but why do you decide that the result of this will be the collapse of russia, what do you think the russians should do at this moment, that they will take to the streets, in connection with that, that they lost crimea, and why they don't until the 14th year, they did not go out on the streets shouting putin against the army, why crimea is ukrainian, why 99% of ukrainians are not the russians were not interested in the existence of crimea, they did not even go there for vacation, but they went there and spat, why, and then suddenly, oh,

my god, what a pearl, nadia, oh my god, oh, what a sea, what a sun, oh, they will go to sochi, they'll forget they were there, huh. there is no beach, only stones, mud in general, i would say that this is a feature of the russian consciousness, that is , putin says, he loses the crimea through military means, and they all come out and throw putin, at this moment the offended tatars with chechens and buryats say, oh , if you you cannot occupy part of the territory of ukraine, we separate from you. and the russians say, well, yes, well, it's time, if we're such weaklings, then let's separate, well, that is, i don't want to be ironic, i'm just one thing is not connected with another, in russia there can be any social political processes that can lead to the defragmentation

of statehood, anything, but it is not related to the russian-ukrainian war, it can be during the russian-ukrainian war, it can be 40 years after the russian-ukrainian war, in connection connection with completely different circumstances. but we wanted it to be a reaction, you know, like this chain process, so that one thing flows from another. now we understand that this is not the case, that we are living in a war of attrition, that russia has enough forces to wage this war for a long time, it is also being exhausted, that is clear, but it just may not be exhausted as quickly as we are exhausted , on the other hand, we have the help of civilized education, if it continues, we will not be exhausted either, but we will live like this, live like this, and adaptation to such a life, well, the government is also adapting little by little, especially since it is difficult for it, it has cranked up this mechanism of people's expectations to the maximum, i never understood why, i generally looked at all this, all this time, with wide-open eyes, why

we are talking about an offensive, why do we formulate that our victory will be geographical, although when we need a political victory, the preservation of statehood and the nation, do people... do not understand that the very fact of the existence of ukraine as an independent state and the survival of the ukrainian nation - this is already a political miracle, but i am yours i will tell you why people perceived reality in this way, i can explain, because most people, especially those people who live, lived or were born in the regions of ukraine close to russia, in the east and south, mentally, even subconsciously felt...' the soviet union, uh, in the soviet union, not from the point of view of the scoop, get me right, but from the point of view of security, they grew up in the soviet union and passed that sense of security on to their children, who were already children there when you lived in the soviet union , you

knew for sure that no one would attack you, what no matter what they tell you on television, because you live in a huge nuclear country, which is in the second world war, and it can climb somewhere there by itself, but no one climbs on it, because it is scary, because nuclear weapons, because well it is clear, and people lived with this throughout the post-war period, this is the result, if you like, of may 9, 1945, not the eighth, the 9th, i will say clearly, and this is on a subconscious level, independent of political views, you could hate the soviet union, know that you may be in danger from the kgb, and not from outside the enemy, that there is no external enemy , there is no physical enemy, that all these talks, the west will destroy us, it’s all just for the sake of party meetings, and there is no reality of this, and even those who stand on the podium know that nothing threatens us,

we can be dissidents, we will then be put in prison and killed by our compatriots, but no one from the west, neither those who kill us, nor ourselves. then it fell apart, the consciousness remained, and when we were attacked, really, because i think for a lot of people, the 14th year was and didn't mean anything, i'm not like that, i didn't mean anything , i'm a field, well, the continuation of the political confrontation with russia, not a war, but this, i would say, some kind of luck, well, maybe something like that, but, i don't know how to say, even when, sooner or later, it will somehow be decided, by some agreements, by some liberation status, you just need to stop shooting, it doesn't matter, it's because they are stealing, they want to steal on this. no, but when the real war began, many

people had the impression that the soviet union had been attacked, you see, so nothing terrible could happen to be, in a few weeks it will all be over, as a famous figure of all times and people said, he himself is from there, and he, i think, that is why he said that he is from there, if they attacked the soviet union, then two or three weeks is all. and the trick is that it was the soviet union that attacked, we are not the soviet union, we are a small poor country between the soviet union and europe, the soviet union is them, they are left to them, so they have this sense of security that is justified, because they are a nuclear the state, and we tell them, oh, we will crush you, we will drive you out, but only on our territory, and the west says: "no, no, no, no, no, we do not want the population of russia to experience

suffering and war, no, no, as he always said about the soviet union, no, no, you them, whatever please drive them out, please destroy this army, but only on your territory, then there, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, they fired, it’s not accurate, the americans condemn it, we don’t for this, no, no, here is a sense of security for you, because these are the people who live in russia, this is safety, damn it. and people live in belarus lukashenko under the russian nuclear nuclear umbrella, this is safety, and the poles live under the american nuclear umbrella, this is security, but we are not, because we do not have any umbrella of this umbrella, we do not want to be with russia, because it wants to destroy us and we are not accepted in the west, this is our situation, but you need to understand it, ugh, stop saying in your head that we are the soviet union, say how hardworking, we had... the soviet army will never defeat a large one, that is why we do not need a small soviet army, we need an effective european one,

we need nato, we need guarantees security, everything it's just that if we still think that we 're somehow there, we're not there, we're fighting it, uh, that's what they always said, they can fight for a long time, they don't count people, they can throw corpses for years, in for them, the price of human life is zero, we always said that about us. in our country, we won the second world war because our, our leaders were ready to put millions of people and absolutely did not count them, they did not count them so much that even after the war they were not counted, they always called different numbers, absolutely 10 million , died, 15, 20, 25, kakaya the difference is, women give birth to new ones, which is 25 million when it comes to winning the war, well, that's all, and that's the problem. psychologically, this, and

now take the people who lived there all the time, who went to moscow all the time, who would conduct holiday concerts there, who were part of this space of civilization, this is not even some remark, they were simply among these people who had this natural sense of security. and they thought that they are time, they are the same, but they are not the same, because this border has passed, and now the question is very simple, what do we we just need to draw this border, which is the western border, and then we will no longer think that we are the soviet union, because we already understand that little by little, uh, in two-three two-three we understood it in a week , we understood it in two or three months, we can now understand it, three years, ugh, and now we need to become part of nato, and we may

have a new sense of security in our children and grandchildren, new, security not because it was may 9, but because we are part of the north atlantic alliance, because it was may 8 of may, so you just need to change yamaya 9 to may 8, but may 8 is the result, nato is the result of may 8, and the soviet union and everything else is the result of may 9, so now we are somewhere between may 8 and may 9, between, we are stuck, in the meantime, may 9 is over, but the eighth is not yet... and we have forever february 24 on the calendar, february 24, we live in it, we need it to live to may 8 and to stay in this day is better, believe me as a person born in may, it is very cold in february,

chestnuts bloom briskly in may, sunshine. it's warm, it's nice, but it's raining on may 9, it's always, well , it's almost always raining, it's always raining on may 9, it's not necessary, you 're talking about the border here, by the way, the western one, which you need to pull over yourself like a blanket, let's talk about what is happening on the western border, i ask you every saturday political club about your opinion on the development of the blockade situation, you just want to quarrel with me and the polish people, no, i don't, and you haven't quarreled yet after everything you said on towards the polish government, not the people? i have never been on good terms with the polish government, by this i mean because i believe that this government is defaming the honor of the polish people. well, let's talk about the development of the situation, donald tusk, a person who is one of the most authoritative politicians in europe, a person who can form the polish government in the near future, and in general we

understand that he is aware of the importance of ukraine as his neighbor. as parts of european civilization, as parts of eastern europe, in general, he believes that the polish government cynically plays the map of ukraine, well , bravo in my opinion, this, well, yes, this is the way it is , they could do everything they wanted to do, if in principle they thought about solving this issue, and not about their momentary political interests, here is the minister of foreign affairs of poland, who was appointed for two weeks, well, there is a new minister of foreign affairs, you know, in this government of morovvetsi, the new minister of foreign affairs is the former minister of european affairs, but he did not go to north macedonia , nothing, he clearly behaved as he should behave in general the minister of foreign affairs of poland, and who prevents the prime minister from behaving like the prime minister, the minister of infrastructure there, from behaving like the minister of infrastructure, one should not think that people at this level do not have the ability to solve issues,

they have, uh, if they don't want to take advantage of their opportunity, as it was during the farming story, as it is now with the actions of the carriers, then that's a completely different story, that is, when you're not trying to solve, you're helping the conflict, obviously, what do you know, the minister of foreign affairs of poland took a nice step in support of ukraine and against russia, and who would prevent morawiecki from coming to the border and saying that he supports ukraine, say it to the face of these people who are on strike there, show your position, there are not many of them, talk to the local authorities, talk about how to revoke the permission for this ee protest, talk about how it is possible to unblock the cordon, you have shown theirs, we will resolve the issue, but you have some number of trucks there to launch for a day, that’s all there is, they

just pretend that it’s theirs, well , look at them, the previous government of morovetskyi simply didn’t notice it, and this one has already started some kind of game, so that it’s not as if we are taking part in solution, but we don't solve it, it's all an ugly show, why do i say that it insults the honor of poland, they insult the honor of poland, because this is how the polish government does not behave responsibly, we understand that polish society supports ukraine, fact, fact, we understand that we are interested in now in economic cooperation with poland, a fact. fact, we understand that what happened with, our, uh, economic situation, is the decision of the european commission, when we were practically given the regime of an ordinary country by the members of the european union, why do they start saying that we should return to the previous regime,

when poland says that she wants to see us in the european union, without all these restrictions, well, that 's cynicism, they haven't done anything extra for us, it's not that we're using something that we never had before, no, no, nothing like that no, and this, i am very sorry that this is happening, i will tell you honestly, and it is causing serious economic damage to the economy of ukraine, it will affect our situations, and now there will be problems there with various things, from sausages to juice, and but it is serious losses, and polish business. he suffered losses in connection with the farmers' protest very seriously, now he is suffering losses in connection with this border blockade, in general, one gets the impression that the politicians... who now have to give up their positions, in fact, want to leave so-and-so an inheritance with its soul the successor, so that it would be difficult, of course, no

, it is correct, because they want the new government to adopt decisions and programs that are unpopular with part of society from the very beginning in local elections, this is a simple chess party, and by the way, maybe they don’t even have this party it is possible to win, it's just that the hostages in this chess game are not the future... but ukraine and poland, they are throwing ukraine's interests in the ukrainian and polish economy under the wheel of their truck of their possible victory in local elections, in specific voivodships, and under the wheels of the next truck, which is going to hold elections to the european parliament, they are not interested in anything else, they are not interested in ukraine , they are not interested in poland, they are not interested in the economy, they are interested in mandates, and the possibility of revenge at... the next parliamentary elections, that's all, that's where their vision of the world ends, and it's a shame, they're polish politicians , we're talking about poland now, but how

tendentious is this phenomenon that you 're talking about, when we don't care about national interests, the geopolitical situation, the situation at least in our region, we simply we are pursuing our own political goals , to what extent is it a trend now, well, for many people it is a trend, and it, by the way, i can’t say that no, no, it ends with some real successes, it ends, i’ll tell you what i saw in the publication today, nepsheva, uhorsky, please, in september we received from vladimir putin an amount of gas unprecedented in four years, unprecedented in four years, but it is interesting that it is still more expensive than the price of gas on the stock market, so we say that orban will receive from putin a cheap gas, no, more expensive, more expensive, you understand what the trick is, but together with this, as

you can see, it affects the hungarian position, and why, maybe not for nothing, orbanka buys a large amount of more expensive gas from russia, while russia needs to sell this gas. so imagine the situation, a certain siyard comes to moscow, they tell him, peter, we can solve some problems, but we need to sell a certain amount of gas, because there is no one to buy it, well, give it, here it is, here it is, and we will solve something there. and here we will decide, that is, when they say that hungary is with russia, because russia gives cheap gas, this is not true. yes, it's true, it's what hungary and orbán get, in return, i think orbán will get something, but what we don't know, but hungary

doesn't get anything, because if they would get at the market price, they have there would be better economic situations, but now they buy more expensive gas and as a result do not have any money from the european union, but play on us, so this is also quite an interesting story that should be talked about, in 29 there was gas in june, and hungarians bought gas from russians for €32. here you go it sounds, it sounds, this is also an interesting story, so orbán would pay for 8 months, putin 300, 337 billion forints more than if we in hungary bought gas on the world market, you understand that this is ordinary corruption , yes, we are asking such a group,

what, why, what is behind all these decisions, that we are sitting like idiots, and with you we are trying to give some big meaning, concrete actions, political meaning, that's what they did, because they may have such desires, but these people did so, because they have such desires, our great orban does so because maybe it is kept at the expense of cheap gas, it gives the opportunity for social, social success, and then we find out that in fact a big body is just rattling the hungarian budget, the money of its taxpayers, in order for the russians to live better, then that is another history, and when you ask what it is about, whether it is a trend, here it is a trend, actually replacing state interests under the label that you are defending the national interests of ukraine or even the interests of your own

political formation. ugh, so someone is around may think that it is for success in the elections , something like that, but we have serious interests there, in fact, they just solved the vopros, that's all, and the russians always act like that, and do you remember the stories in the parliamentary assembly of the council of europe, when there they didn't understand which deputies were doing something, and then there was a huge corruption scandal in connection with money there, it seems from baku, well, they just gave money there, to some deputies. then some deputy chairman is a deputy from the council of europe, and then the deputy chairman of the european parliament was arrested for some money, now this is a huge problem , is it now or has it always been, that is, corruption at the highest level, and before there were no countries like russia and china that the soviet union could give you, the soviet union gave money to the international, communist and labor movement , and he couldn’t bribe western politicians, because i didn’t even understand how it was done and

why, he could have organized an assassination attempt on them there, but to give them money, that didn’t happen, they just didn’t understand the value of things, they gave money to the communists not in order to they voted correctly, that they were a communist party, a pro-union organization, a newspaper, and they spent millions of our money on it, by the way, what our parents earned, they gave it all to the communist party of san marino, relatively speaking, or italy, until the italian communists became their enemies there, well, then they gave some other communists there, and china? communist party of greece marxist-leninist. well, that's not possible, it's simple, because otherwise the communist movement could not exist, they acted like that. and, when they became market countries, they suddenly realized that they could just buy themselves services. well, at first they just started buying services, they came to amsterdam, they sit there, people of different positions to be politically correct in the shop windows. everyone is like that, and yes, and they realized that such

services can be bought directly legally, and then we realized that it is possible to go from this wonderful house with shop windows with all this beauty directly to the parliament, there , of course, no one sits naked, but also money will take if you find the right person, and a completely different life began, and this is a question that was still asked in the 90s, whether the west will change russia with its approaches, or whether russia will change, we are returning to the conversation of the glutton at the beginning of ours, whether it will change... russia-the west, when we he will just go around and hand out envelopes, and we can already see that all this moral decline has not changed, not everyone, there are many decent people, but people who are dishonest, they just uh, help, well , let's say, the degradation of this system, this shriodar is still so, so great, and then, again, you, when you start thinking, probably, they just do it because they need

to protect some of their political interests, or... they see what is behind it, why did i tell this story with gas in detail, we see that there are no political interests behind it , well no maybe a responsible politician of orbán's level, orbán is a very strong politician, may not understand that he is spending too much money, he is not an idiot, but if there is some personal interest most likely behind it, then it can be anything, and we have, just people living in a corrupt society have to be aware of the mentality of those with whom we deal, this is a very important question, with which we can end our conversation today, thank you khrystyna, so thank you vitaliy, it was saturday's political club, and actually, we will meet next saturday, thank you, then our colleagues continue the broadcast , be in a hurry, all the best to you.

the first meeting of the ukraine-nato council at the level of foreign ministers, the officials approved an ambitious program for the next year, and whether words will turn into real actions, the situation at the front is intensifying, where the russians stepped up. ukraine and poland took some measures to unblock the border. however, thousands of trucks are still standing in line at the border. so about that and much more in today's issue. nato members have pledged to increase aid to ukraine without allowing war fatigue. results of the first meeting of the ukraine-nato council at the level of ministers of foreign affairs.