nato, i.e., the reform program described for us, for our full operational interoperability with nato, is being finalized, being prepared, and it seems that right now we are even talking about the absence of any political demands for us, although when we are talking about the north atlantic alliance, it is important do not forget that this is a political and military alliance, precisely in this version, it is a union, and of course. all representatives of our partner countries agreed to continue helping our country as much as possible, there were several important ones a statement about quite significant and ample financial aid to us, in particular from germany, from the netherlands, and this is only what i remember now from memory, they promise not to let everyone get tired of ukraine and not to get tired themselves, i don't know how successful it will be to our colleagues, but mr. vitaly, the commission,

let's talk about this with pavlo klimkin, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2014-2019, yes, he is already in touch with us, mr. pavlo, congratulations, but not yet, well, in any by the way, i hope that he will appear now and we will talk about it, c in any case, it is clear that the commission, the integration, the integration, the commission should be only the first step towards integration, i will tell you honestly, and whatever... the commissions that are created, they do not replace the security guarantee, this is an interesting form when ukraine appeals to nato member countries, when she does everything possible to be listened to, she can call such a meeting, but nato members have no obligations to ukraine, so what should we think about when we hold such meetings, of course, we must say , that we didn't really want them, remember what we have the majority of citizens before... ukraine's attack, not

russia's attack on ukraine, were generally opposed to ukraine's accession to nato, and , by the way, many of them, like genr, believed that this would lead to russia's attack, but ukraine is not in nato entered and waited for the attack, all two in one, but i remember the year 1997, when ukraine signed this act, ukraine nato, mr. pavle, you remember 1997, already with us, we congratulate you, signing, hello, friends, congratulations, ms. khrystyna, ms. vitaliy, of course, of course, i remember you were in vrid, were in madrid, i haven't been to madrid, but, well, your reference is almost historical, i saw the signing of this fundamental act, ukraine-nato, we can say that we have come a long way over the years, or have we? you can say i'm a pushover. but stuck

in the door, maybe, i was not enthusiastic in 1997, i think you are too, and not because of what was signed, but because of what was signed with russia, in principle, trade then was related to nato expansion, then to this was joined by the big seven, and its actual expansion to the big eight. and effort to build such a mosaic, it ended very badly, but the fact that we made a quantum leap is 100%, although we also have to understand that the war, and the first phase of the second brought us to where we are, that is, this movement was not given to us not just like that, and we have it, we have it...' to understand, just as we have

to understand that nato, i am not saying the whole of nato, this nato sometimes sounds like a collective measure, but nevertheless, the essential part west, had more than great doubts about how and where to advance with us, and in fact not only with us, ugh, tell me, please, mr. pavle, but still the creation of the ukraine-nato council and a meeting at the level of foreign ministers. i'm sure you 've analyzed this important event that happened on november 29, can we say that we have any practical gains as a result of these steps? well, the council is a good story, it doesn't mean that we now have the same status, the fact that we are at the same table, we can talk in a different way, yes, it gives us opportunities, after all, all decisions are made in nato.

key, they are political, and if they political, then this is a decision at the level of the heads of state and government, and there was already such a meeting of the council, ministers of foreign affairs... when they gather, they deal with matters, i would use this word to refine those political decisions that are taken by the leadership, states and governments, and this is actually a meeting, it first of all gave us an understanding of where we are moving in terms of interoperability, where we are moving in order to advance, well actually... in the area where we are already advancing, that is, there with systematicity and a certain predictability appeared, that is, yes, this is a step forward, and if you want, even a few steps forward, please tell me, in principle, if we talk about the prospects of the washington

summit, here is what we can really achieve, what we should strive for, i do not want to disappoint anyone, but i am rather skeptical and how i'm reading the mood today in many nato capitals about the next jump during the washington summit, but i'm also quite optimistic that until now, i just think it will happen after the washington summit, this summit actually will take place immediately before the presidential elections in the states. and as far as i'm concerned, it has its pros and cons, but the cons are a bit more, in the sense that during the campaign, talking about additional commitments to americans is always a story that they try to avoid,

so i think that the solution, that is the decision to start the accession process will not be made in washington, but... this, this does not mean that we have to put our front legs, as they say , and the back legs, and stop this work, and focus on some perspective, because then it will mean, that both drive and dynamics from this process may disappear to a certain extent, therefore, on the contrary, this drive needs to be promoted, and what do i have? one topic, the topic, in fact, that was thrown to us today, yesterday, it is about the activity of all representatives of the ukrainian political community, the involvement of all possible connections on international platforms, platforms for the benefit of our country, and why this potential is not always

is used, petro poroshenko was actually not released abroad, the security service of ukraine refers to the information that he had would become, well, almost a tool in the hands of the russian propaganda machine, if i met with viktor orban, and now it is used by all the propaganda machines that only we can see, what is happening at all, can you explain? no , i can't, and i actually see this story as on the one hand quite funny, and on the other hand , serious and somewhat charismatic, because... on the one hand, meeting orbán in today's game played by the hungarian prime minister is nothing will bring, will bring neither positive nor negative, and i do not know how use it in the process of preparing for

the yesiv summit, and i don't know how russia is going to use it, well, maybe there is some super secret information. what is insidiously planned there, but i see orbán's game as his sense of the moment, that he begins to bargain for a long time, he understands that all the money will not be unlocked for him at once, he has the opportunity to block us, to put sticks in the wheels not only at the beginning of preliminary negotiations , and in fact on each section, and there are only officially 30, five, that is, the entrance to the exit section, you already have at least 70 points, in fact, if you count them, there are more than 100 who know the mechanics of yesiv, and you and i have not yet started talking about nato, but orbán's game is also about money, it is also about candidacies in brussels, it is also about pulling to

the possible of the republican administration , i understand that he is being blackmailed there from moscow, with gas prices, which are actually not preferential, and there are other factors, that is, he is playing his strategic game, and i believe that our position today is not the same , that... we can squeeze orban somewhere, this is not a strong position, so leave the matter with horban our friends and allies decide what they actually do, only that the president of the european council was there, and i know that others spoke with gorban, he too, excuse me, excuse me, and charles michel, i am now actually quoting the statement of the european solidarity, he is also in this case a tool in the hands of the russian special services. because he met with orban, and president zelensky, who invites him to ukraine? no,

i think it is necessary to ask the fsb and the russians separately, of course this is sarcasm, but the logic, the logic is very simple, in fact, i do not i see in this story, some kind of fundamental meaning, and i generally think that now we have to play like in jazz, one melody, but with improvisation, we have a difficult situation and a difficult situation because of the fact that a campaign is starting in the states, which will be unpredictable , we have events in israel around gaza, we will have our surge around the presidential elections in taiwan in january, and now we need to engage, really everything we can in terms of being understood, so that we convey not only... emotion , and the content, what we want and how we want, but again, i don't understand this story at all,

if someone knew that poroshenko would meet with orban, then the question is, why couldn't he be told that he was actually going to be used, that is, i say, in my opinion, the story is 50% funny, not 50, we don’t know if he was going to meet with orman, by the way, he actually has, i think, what to talk about, that’s why i say that the story is in fact, which does not lend itself to any logical interpretation, tell me please, if we talk in the context of that now, in principle, is happening with western unity, we are waiting for the summit of the european union, to what extent we receive help there. how many of us will be invited to the negotiations with this position of hungary? i

believe that orbán will not block, orbán will play as history, orbán will extract from us and from everyone else, everything he can on prospects. and, when you look at what he speaks in hungarian, and my hungarian. acquaintances translated it for me, he deliberately leaves space, so 50 billion will be agreed upon for me, orban will to try to make sure that this money is confirmed every year, and unfortunately there is such a chance, and at the same time i believe that a political decision on the start, before the opening negotiations will be made when they physically start there, is another story. but it also means, we just talked about the need to work together, that we need

to prepare a position for these negotiations, which is a broad discussion with business and with civil society, actually on the same level, and i remember very well the negotiations about association, but preliminary negotiations are an association multiplied, well, at least by 20, if in fact. no more and we need not hundreds, but thousands of people who understand european law and many issues, and for these people to interact with those who will actually experience the preliminary process, this is business, and society, this is actually a crazy story and we need it to prepare without wasting time, and as they say, not even for yesterday, the day before yesterday, but what, one more question: to what extent is the world community now actively reacting to what is happening in our

military and political leadership, to the actual a situation where we already have a division, the political and military leadership, and actually make fun of each other, well , this is also what we know from the media, we know this from the media and we know this from social networks, some deputies, some of the deputies, a person with a mandate, actually, but the article is quite authored. i read it just a few days ago, actually it shows that the world is also reflecting on this story. how dangerous they are, well, history certainly matters, in my opinion, these articles are read more in ukraine, but those people who are directly related to ukraine, they are also tracked, so we know the authors of all the articles, if you mean the economist or the wall street journal,

as far as i understand, markus volker is a person who spent a couple of weeks there in ukraine, traveled a lot. talked a lot, that is, what he writes, writes, it is not there from the ceiling or from some conversations, this, this is a feeling, and what the story is about, discussions inside, it enters the western media, you, you this see, well, the last story that we just discussed, it's just not that the flip side of the coin, it's kind of... also hardened history, and this history is of course dangerous, because at some point the west will look from a different angle on how ready we are to form a strategy and agree on a common strategy with them, because internal unity is what

uniquely distinguished us all these if we lose this, then the discussions in the west that are happening, they can start, of course, from another way and not only in media, in principle, if we talk about what we should do to change this impression that is created in the western audience, the problem is that we do not react to it in any way, that is , the public reacts to it, which makes the authorities and the military leadership so nervous, they seem to be silent. it's not about them, i think the answer is very simple and we all know it, it means joint visits, er, joint opinion, and joint activities here in ukraine, that's what is obvious, and actually for all of us and for our

friends, demonstrates unity, unity of thought, unity of strategy, unity of purpose, because it is actually very important, it is very simple, but in reality it always works, mr. pavle, and here i am i wanted to ask you about this session of the osce, this is really an absolutely incredible story that the north macedonians agreed, obviously not on their own, to let sergei lavov's plane pass so that sergey lavrov could be a participant in this session, he actually spoke at all the events at this session sessions, whom he could and who he could not, why is the west so... it is necessary for all these old forms of cooperation with russia, when they do not work anyway, explain to me, and the answer is very simple, they want to keep the possibility of at least some indirect control , for for elections, for the observance of human rights, for freedom of speech, and within the framework of the osce there are

authorities for this, which work, how should i say so censoriously, it is far from ideal, but you work no less, this is again the marism of the situation with the osce is that it no longer makes sense with russia, and it also makes no sense without russia, since in the 75th year the osce was created precisely as a platform for conversation between, western and eastern, then about the soviet bloc, i believe that in at some point you need to pull yourself together and honestly say that obje must be killed, well, after all, the west gave birth, as taras bulba said, i gave birth to you, i will kill you, and then create new sites, within the framework of obje there were many regimes of arms control , compliance with trust, all these regimes were killed by russia , that is, today the real added value for

our friends is an indirect, let's call it that, control over key freedoms, as far as i'm concerned , the whole story that happened in north macedonia is very bad for us and very bad for the west . there was less solidarity than i would have liked wanted it and than you would like it, when someone does not go there, someone goes, and someone, on the contrary, goes and says, it is even good that lavrov came there, we will talk here, on... for example, as the austrian minister of foreign affairs, in the kremlin, such a meeting is perceived as a mess inside the event and an opportunity to reduce the level in solidarity. i believe that everything should have been done before the meeting to agree on a single line of behavior and single signals, the

failure to do so is, unfortunately, a gift to the kremlin. thank you, pavlo klimkin, diplomat of the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2014-2019, we had him on the air, we will now wait for our next interlocutor, he will be the extraordinary plenipotentiary ambassador of ukraine in israel, mr. yevhen kornechuk, this is the 57th day of the war. and by the way, mr. yevhen and i talked at the beginning of the war, and i have to say that after these 57 days, the only thing that can be said is that few people at all imagined that the war in the middle east would continue for so long, and she there will be no end, by the way, this is roughly like the russian-ukrainian war, all the wars, i have talked about it many times in this studio and in other studios, all the wars in the middle east, they happened literally in several ways. and we always said, well, why compare israel with ukraine, israel is a country that fights short wars, long wars, they, first of all, give opportunities to introduce

israel in connection with the mobilization potential, it is a small country, the territory of the kyiv region, essentially. secondly, this is a huge blow to the israeli economy, by the way, now the israeli economy is creating, experiencing crazy losses, billions and again after all, the israeli economy is not ukrainian, it is high technology, it is technoparks, it all stops. stops also because a huge number of people who are employed there , they are just reservists, they are in the army, there is no way to somehow divide it all, again due to the not very large number of the population, and at the same time everyone sees it, everyone they say, probably in a couple of weeks, it will end, i heard it from israeli military experts, literally there for 20-30, and there is no real prospect, but why does it not end on your opinion, because israel has made a decision for itself to eradicate hamas as much as possible this time, or hamas prepared too well, by the way, how do you feel about the idea of ​​politics in my opinion, nor the new york times, who

believe that israel a year before attack knew about the plans of hamas, the media write, i don't really believe it, to be honest, but it seems to me that the main thing is that what you are saying is that israel believes that it can't really do anything, huh , so as not to destroy hamas as such an organization, because if to stop, and hamas will continue to act, then what will happen to the position of the israeli government and security forces, yevhen karenchuk, ambassador plenipotentiary of ukraine in israel, congratulations , mr. yevhen, good evening, well, i want to address you, by the way, mr. yevhen, christina's question, why is israel forced to wage such a long war, although it is absolutely not in the traditions of the very ideas about the security of the jewish state. a difficult question and everything depends on the tactics and what the israeli side wants to achieve, based on the situation that has developed,

it is clear that completely destroying the gas sector will mean huge losses of the civilian population, and this is unacceptable, you see how many world and european leaders are speaking out... her rights, provides for a careful, slow offensive that will allow to avoid the deaths of the civilian population as much as possible, that is why the operation is stretched, today in the local press... new numbers or new dates were announced, which indicate that sooner than everything, the active phase of the operation, will end

in the next three months, but the whole operation could go on for up to a year, and how do you think israel, as a state, uh, will function during that time? well, it is difficult to say, since we know the figures of financial losses, the war costs the government about 300 million dollars every day and the economic decline is quite substantial. today i read statistics that about 30% of businesses have closed or are closing, and it is very difficult, but i think that when it comes to the end of the active phase and the transition to the passive phase, respectively, probably expenses from the budget. will be reduced, and these are not only expenditures on defense, directly on the tzahal, for example, and on special services, these are also expenditures related to the fact that a huge number of the population has been resettled from

the north... from the south and live in hotels at the expense of the state is fully supported, i was in the north today, in the area of ​​lake kineret all the hotels are full of refugees from the north and from the south, and in fact the tourist cluster is also not working, so these are all costs that will definitely affect the israeli economy, therefore the corresponding assistance of the united states is as important for israel as it is for ukraine. let us simply remind you that joseph biden is turning to congress for 100 billion, 60 billion of which should go to ukraine, for its support, and of course, this package also includes assistance to israel in its opposition to the terrorist hamas. however, on the 57th day of the war, mr. yevgeny, there are certain successes, because when it comes to the release of hostages, it is

actually an exchange. this can already be called a certain progress hamas, unfortunately, does not follow the rules and commitments, in particular, and breaks the truce, the idf resumes hostilities in gaza. well, that's what the columns of the world's newspapers were actually filled with this week. can we talk about another stage of the war, or are we currently observing the systematic implementation of the tasks set by israel at the very beginning. well, look, these wars are very different that the americans, of course , put us in the same row as the war in israel, the war in ukraine, rather it is huge, very a dramatic act of terrorism that israel was not prepared for, that claimed more than 1,400 lives, but we did comparatively.

graphic, as the embassy and covered in the local press, 1,400 of our citizens died only in buchya borodyanka in the first months of the war, that is, in the suburbs of kyiv. in fact, in my memory, the situation was already similar, and we observed a massive military operation in the gas sector 2.5 years ago, before the special elections, in fact, when mr. netanyahu lost power for a whole year. when the alternative was selected government, but, well, it's all the same , in the last week, in the seven days of the truce, it was really possible to exchange 110 israelis for 240 palestinians who did not take part in military operations, as a rule, these are civilian women and teenagers, but

today was an attempt to extend this truce and continue the exchange in qatar, which unfortunately ended in the evening with nothing, israel withdrew its delegation from the negotiations, and how the events will develop further, it is very difficult to say, but the israel defense forces continue a massive operation, you know that in the gas sector he divided in half, and in the middle of the night separately and in the south, an operation is being carried out block by block, and this is being done very slowly precisely... in order to avoid the death of civilians, today the news agencies reported that russian-made rockets were found among the humanitarian aid, this information is currently being verified, but it is absolutely certain that without further verification by the israelis of the humanitarian aid that is delivered through egypt to the gas sector, apparently,

humanitarian aid will simply not be delivered in the future will be and today the exchange started again, not an exchange, sorry, but the exit of foreigners from the gas sector, today a rather large number of americans, germans, canadians, russians, and several more, citizens of several nationalities who left through the rafah checkpoint to egypt, we submitted another group for the evacuation of ukrainians, and i hope that this week we will conduct the final evacuation, that is, we now have an additional 146 people on the list that we are ready to evacuate, we are trying to coordinate and conduct the final evacuation as quickly as possible. i i remind you that we have already removed 259, and of these 25