well, first of all, we do not know to the end what was transported there, once, uh, secondly, we do not know one more thing, in which direction, i also think that this is very important when the connection between russia and china is broken, but we we have to understand that china is also interested in receiving goods from russia, and we can consider that this is a signal towards china, because these are problems not only between russia and ukraine , but also between ukraine and china, we are undermining that very railway, is important to the people's republic of china, that is, sending a signal to china, we understand that you are our enemies, and we will act so that you also have problems in the economy, and it is precisely in that sector of the economy that is connected with russia that we can say that in this way the ukrainian authorities are clearly taking a course for confrontation with the people's republic of china , and realizes that china is interested in helping russia, because we had a lot of constant hopes that the people's republic of china. will have his

say i will say his say, we tried to organize this telephone conversation or some other conversation of the president of ukraine with the chairman of the people's republic of china , he finally called, it was a huge achievement, we shied away from any contacts with taiwan, so as not to offend beijing, so that practically our chairman of the committee on international relations of the supreme council of ukraine could not visit the republic of china on taiwan. you can say that we firmly returned that in principle the decision was taken to have a confrontation with china, and that yes, i do not see any tragedy in this, but we must be clearly aware of this, these explosions have created for us a new powerful real the enemy, not just a country that pretends to be a neutral country, and it was not she who organized the action against us, but we against her, we were the first to show her that we can, these are the good consequences of such a story, of course, because we are fighting and with russia, china. and

china will find opportunities to help russia in another area, that's clear, but we have to interrupt their ties, that's true, but we have to clearly say to ourselves, are we really russia, china, iran, north korea, these are the countries that will do everything is possible for ukraine to disappear from the political map of the world, we do not need to look for connections, where we can run into chinese interests, we run there, well , of course, when it comes to russian -chinese relations, we are not interested in internal economic ones. we are interested in the fact that china does not help russia with weapons, that china does not buy oil, so it is necessary to do so that in terms of energy, china does not receive anything from russia, that it is looking for new sources of income, but china will also react, this must also be understood, what this reaction can be, we will feel it, of different types, will convey its own shells in north korea, he in china , i assure you, many opportunities to show that he is ready, more than we do, we don't know if they didn't pass before, we know, i think

they passed, if you want to know my point of view, passed , they can increase this story, well, but again out of revenge, or they did it anyway, because i'm going down the wrong path again, let's not do something, because they will take revenge on us, i'm not saying that, i'm just i say that then i believe that we should consider it as something that our government clearly set a course for a confrontation with china, if so, we may soon see the appearance of a taipei representative office in kyiv, if not, if they themselves... they are not doing each other with one hand, they do not understand what they are doing, so nothing it won't happen, that's all , i.e. there will be unexpected consequences and that's it, well, look, this may indicate recognition and , in general, understanding of today's realities, something very similar is happening in the head, in particular, of president zelensky, who says, i, we recognize there is a counterattack, there are problems, no everything... it happened as expected, there are other

points that are recognized, for example , fortifications, things that should have been planned, just go regularly for two years already, and even earlier, now for some reason it is very actively articulated, can we to say that now the leadership of our country, the military -political leadership of our country has come to realize the new realities in which ukraine lives, not the borders of 1991, not completely... the liberation of our territory by the end of some summer there and so on, but just at least an effective defense against the russian federation, well, understanding the realities of the international arena, based on what you said about bama china. i believe that, in principle , reality is such a thing, we always meet with it at some point, it's always a question of when, everyone depends on their own understanding of the situation, competence, professionalism, here is a vivid example of meeting reality, this is february 24 , 2020. ugh, for now it won't knock, so i

still meet many people who said, it didn't even occur to us that this could happen, and why, well, everyone already told you, you just shouted, you blew all the loudspeakers, that's it. no, well, it's so simple, why can't it be like that, it can't be like that, because i don't want it to be like that, and then i want it to be like that, by the way, about reality, we always talked, we had one such, such a clear program of actions, we are going to the borders of 1991, and russia is falling apart, for some reason i decided so, it is true, that's what i always said, i am not a military expert, i... i can't say whether we can go to border of 1991 or not, maybe we can, that is a question for the army, not for me, but why do you decide that as a result this will be the collapse of russia, what do you think the russians should do at this moment, what will they take to the streets, in connection with which they lost

crimea, and why did they not take to the streets in 2014, did not shout putin, divivaika, why crimea is ukrainian, why 99% of ukrainians, not russians, were not interested in the existence of crimea, they didn’t even go on vacation, but went so they spat, why, and then ravtom , oh, my god, what a pearl, nadia, oh my god, what a sea, what a sea the sun, oh, they will go to sochi, they will forget that they were there, ugh, no beach, stones alone, in general mud, i am this, i told you the peculiarities of russian consciousness. that is, putin says he will lose crimea by military means and they all come out and depose putin, at this moment the offended tatars with chechens and buryats say, oh, if you cannot occupy part of the territory of ukraine,

we will separate from you, and the russians say, well, yes , well, it's time, if we are such weaklings, then let's separate. well, that is, i don't want to be ironic, i just one thing is not connected with another, in russia there can be any socio-political processes that can lead to the defragmentation of statehood, anything, but it is not related to the russian-ukrainian war, it can be during the russian-ukrainian war, it can be 40 years after the russian-ukrainian war, completely different circumstances, but we wanted that it was such a reaction, you know , like this chain process, that one thing flows from another, now we are not like that, that we are living in a war of attrition, that russia has enough strength to wage this war for a long time, it is also being exhausted , it is clear, but she just can don't wear out as fast as we wear out, on the other hand, we have the help of civilized education, if it continues, we won't wear out either, but we

will live like this, live like this, adapting to such a life, well, the government will also adapt little by little , especially since it is difficult for her, she has developed this mechanism of people's expectations. to the max, i never understood why, i generally looked at all this, all this time at it with wide-open eyes, why do we talk about an offensive, why do we formulate that our victory will be geographical, although, when we need a political victory, the preservation of statehood and the nation, do people not understand that the very fact of the existence of ukraine as an independent state and the survival of the ukrainian nation is already a political miracle, but i will tell you why people accepted reality like this, i can explain, that's why that the majority of people, especially those people who live, lived or were born in the regions of ukraine close to russia, in the east and south, mentally, even subconsciously, felt themselves in the soviet

union, well, in the soviet union not from the point of view of a scoop, understand me right, and with security point of view. they grew up in the soviet union and passed this sense of security on to their children who were already children there. when you lived in the soviet union, you knew for sure that no one would attack you, no matter what they told you on tv, because you live in a huge nuclear country that won the second world war, and it can go somewhere to climb it myself, but no one climbs on it, because it is scary, because nuclear weapons, because, well, it is clear, and people lived with this throughout the post-war period, this is the result, if you want, of may 9, 1945, not the eighth, the 9th, i will say clearly, and this is on a subconscious level , independent of political views, you could

hate the soviet union, but know that you may be in danger from the kgb, and not from an external enemy, that there is no external enemy, there is no physical enemy, that all these west will destroy us, it's all just for the sake of party meetings , and there is no reality of this, and even those who go to the stands know that nothing threatens us, we can be dissidents, then send us to this prison and they will kill their own compatriots, but no one from the west, nor those who kills us, not ourselves, then it fell apart, the consciousness remained , and when we were attacked, really, because i think for many, the year 14 was so meaningless, so not what not meant nothing, such a field, well, the continuation of the political confrontation with russia, not a war, but yes. so, i would say, some kind of luck

, well, maybe something like that, but, i don’t know how to say, even when, which sooner or later will somehow be resolved, some kind of agreements, some special status, you just need to stop shooting, it doesn’t matter , this because they steal, they want to steal in this war, and when the real war began, there was such an impression. for many people who attacked the soviet union, you see, that's why nothing terrible can happen, in a few weeks, it will all be over, as a famous figure of all times and people said, himself from there, and he, i think, said that , that he is from there, if they attacked the soviet union, then 2-3 weeks, and the trick is that it was the soviet union that attacked, we are not the soviet union. we are a small, poor country between the soviet union and europe,

the soviet union is them, they have remained, that's why they have this sense of security , because they are a nuclear power and we tell them, oh, we will destroy you, we will drive you out, but only on our territory, and the west says : no, no, no, we don't want the population of russia to experience suffering and war, no, no, as he always said about the soviet union, no, no, please drive them out, whatever you want please destroy this army, but only on your territory, then no, no, no, no, no, no, they fired there, it’s not accurate, the americans condemn it, we don’t for that, no, no, here's a feeling of security for you , because these people live in russia, that's security, damn it, and people live in belarus, lukashenka under the russian nuclear, nuclear umbrella, that's security, and the poles. live under the american nuclear nuclear umbrella, this is security, but we are not, because we

do not have any umbrella of this umbrella, we do not want to be with russia, because it wants to destroy us and we are not accepted in the west, this is our situation, but you have to understand it, ugh, stop saying in your head that we are the soviet union, say as a hard worker, a small soviet army will never defeat a big one, so we don't need a small soviet army, we need an efficient european one, we need nato, we need security guarantees, everything about... if we still think that we are somehow there, we are not there, we are fighting with this, ugh, this is what we always said , they can fight for a long time, they don’t count people, they can throw corpses around for years, the price of human life is zero for them, we always said this about us, with us, in us, we won the second world war, because our, our steering wheels, were millions of people ready to put. and they were not counted at all, so much so that even after the war they were not counted, they always called different numbers,

absolutely 10 million, 15, 20, 25, what a difference, women are giving birth to new ones, what is 25 million when it comes to victory in the war, well, that's all, and that's a psychological problem, that, and now take the people who lived in this all the time. who all the time went to moscow, who gave festive concerts there, who were part of this space of civilization, this is not even some kind of remark, they were just among these people who had this natural sense of security and they thought that they are time, they are the same, but they are not the same because this border he passed. and now the question is very simple, what we need is this border, which is the border

of the west, just pull it on ourselves, and then we will no longer think that we are the soviet union, because we already understand that no, little by little, huh , in two or three, two or three weeks we understood it, in two or three months we understood it, we can see, now we will understand it in two or three years, and now we we need to become a part of nato, and we may have a new sense of security in our children and him. in the new: security not because it was may 9, but because we are part of the north atlantic alliance, because it was may 8, so you just have to change yamaya 9 to may 8. but may 8 is the result nato is the result of may 8, and the soviet union and everything else is the result of may 9, so now we are somewhere between may 8 and may 9, in between, we are stuck, in between luckily, may 9 is over, and the eighth has not yet come, and

we are fasting now and forever on february 24 calendars, february 24. we live in it , we need to live until may 8 and stay on this day, it is better, believe me as a person who was born in may, in february, it is terrible, cold, gloomy in may chestnuts bloom, sunshine, warmth, nice, but on may 9 it rains, always , well, almost always, it always rains on may 9, it’s not necessary, you were talking about the border here, by the way, the western border, which you need to pull over yourself like a blanket, let’s talk about what is happening on the western border border, i saw you every saturday political club with about your opinion regarding the development of the situation with blockades, you just want to quarrel with me and the polish people, no, i don't want to, and haven't you already quarreled after everything you said in relation to

the polish government, not the people, i and the polish government have never was not on good terms, by this i mean because i believe that it would tarnish the honor of the polish people. well, let's talk about the development of the situation. donald tusk, the man who is one of the most authoritative politicians in europe, the man who can form the polish government in the near future at times, and in general, we understand that he is aware of the importance of ukraine, as his neighbor, as part of european civilization, as part of eastern europe, in general, he believes that the polish government cynically plays the ukrainian card. well, in my opinion, bravo, this , well, yes, it is so, they could do everything they wanted to do, if they thought in principle about the solution of this issue, and not about their momentary political interests, here is the minister of foreign affairs of polish affairs, this one, who was appointed for two weeks, well, there is already a new minister of foreign affairs, you know, in this government moravetso, the new minister of foreign affairs, the former minister of european affairs, he

did not go to north macedonia, nothing, he clearly behaved as he should behave in general ...' the minister of foreign affairs of poland, and who interferes with the prime minister behave like this, the prime minister, the minister of infrastructure there, behave like the minister of infrastructure, you should not think that people at this level do not have the ability to solve issues, they have them, uh, if they do not want to use their opportunity , as it was during farming history, as it is happening now during the actions of carriers, it is a completely different story, that is, when you are not on... you are helping the conflict, it is obvious that you know, here is the minister of foreign affairs of poland, made a beautiful step in support of ukraine and against russia , and who would prevent moravetskii from coming to the border and saying that he supports ukraine, saying it to the face of these people who

are on strike there, showing his position, there are not many of them, talking to the local authorities, discussing how to withdraw permission for this , protest, talk about how it is possible to unblock the border, you showed yours , we will solve the issue, but you have to start a certain number of trucks there per day, that’s not all, they just pretend that they have it, well, they those, look, the previous government of morovetsi simply did not notice this, and this one has already started some kind of game, so that it is as if we take part in the solution, but we do not solve it, it is all an ugly show, why i say that it is a disgrace polish, they smear the honor of poland, that's why that the polish government does not behave responsibly, we understand that polish society supports ukraine, fact, fact, we understand that we are currently interested in economic cooperation with poland, fact, fact, we understand that what happened with

our economic situation, this is the decision of the european commission, when the members of the european union practically gave us the regime of an ordinary country, why are they starting to say that we should return to the previous regime, when poland says that she wants to see us in the european union, without all these restrictions, well it is cynicism, nothing additional has been done to us, it is not that we use something that we never had before, no, no, there is no such thing, and this. the economy of ukraine, it will affect our situation, and now there will be problems there with things, from sausages to juice, and but it bears serious losses, and polish business, it also suffered losses in connection with the farmers' protest, very seriously, now

bears losses in connection with this blockade of the border, in general, one gets the impression that the politicians, who now have to give up their positions, in fact, they want to leave such and such a legacy with their offensive. that it was difficult, no , right, because they want the new government to adopt decisions and programs that are unpopular with part of society from the very beginning in local elections, this is a simple chess game, and by the way, maybe even this game cannot be won with them, just hostages in this chess game are not the future polish government, but ukraine and poland, they are throwing ukraine's interests in the ukrainian and polish economy under the wheels of their truck. its possible victories in local elections, in specific voivodships, and under the wheels of the truck of the next one, which is going to the elections to the european parliament, they are not interested in anything else

, they are not interested in ukraine, they are not interested in poland, they are not interested in the economy, they are interested in mandates and the possibility of revenge on the next parliamentary elections, that's all, that's where their vision of the world ends, and that's a shame, they're polish politicians. we are talking about poland now, but how tendentious is this phenomenon that you are talking about, when we don't care about national interests on the geopolitical situation, on the situation at least in our region, we are simply pursuing our own political goals, as far as it is a trend now, well , it is a trend for many people, and it, by the way, i cannot say that it does not, no, ends with some real successes , ends, i'll tell you what i saw today. in the edition, ne nepsheva, hungary, please, in september we received from vladimir putin

an amount of gas not seen in four years, not seen in four years, but it is interesting that it is still more expensive than the price of gas on the stock market, we say that orban will get cheap gas from putin, no, more expensive, more expensive, do you understand? what is the trick, but together with this , as you can see, it affects the hungarian position, and why, maybe not for nothing, orban occupies a large amount of more expensive gas in russia, russia needs to sell this gas, imagine the situation, comes some siyard in moscow, they say to him, peter, well, solve some problems, but we need to sell a certain amount of gas, because there is no one to buy it, well, give this, and this, and

somewhere there we will solve something, and we will solve it here , that is, when they say that hungary is negotiating with russia because we give russia cheap gas, this is not true, but the truth is that hungary and orban get, in return, orban, i think, something will receive , we do not know, but hungary does not receive anything, because if they received at the market price, their economic situation would be better, and now they buy more expensive gas and as a result do not have any money from the european union, but played on us, so this is also quite an interesting story that was worth talking about so to speak, gas was 29 € in june, and hungarians were still buying in the dew. gas for €32. here, it sounds, it sounds, and this is also an interesting story, so that orbán would pay

putin 300 to 337 billion forints more in 8 months than if we in hungary bought gas on the world market, you understand that this is normal corruption, yes. to whom we ask, why, what is behind all these decisions, that we are sitting like idiots, and with you we are trying to give some great meaning, concrete actions, political meaning, these people did this, because they have the possibility such wishes, but they did so because such wishes, our great orbán does so, because maybe he keeps himself at the expense of cheap gas, in gives hungarians opportunities for social... social success, and then we will find out that in fact the big body the hungarian budget, the money of its tax payers, is simply being used up in order for the russians to live better, that is another story. and when you

ask what it is about or is it a trend, here it is a trend, the actual substitution of state interests for your own, under the label of what you are protecting there the national interests of the country, or even the interests of one's own political formation, ugh, that is, someone around may think that it is for success in the elections, something like that, but we have serious interests there, in fact it's simple. they just solved the issue and that's all, and the russians always act like that, but do you remember the stories in the parliamentary assembly of the council of europe, when they didn't understand which deputies were doing something, and then there was a huge corruption scandal in connection with money there, it seems from baku, huh, well, they just gave money to some members of the european parliament, then some the deputy chairman is a deputy from the council of europe, and then the deputy chairman of the european parliament

was arrested for some money. ugh , now this is a huge problem, right now, or has it always been, that is, corruption at the highest level, and before there were no countries like russia and china, what the soviet union could give you, the soviet union gave money to the international, communist and labor movement , and he could not bribe western politicians, because he did not even understand how it was done and why, he could organize an assassination attempt on them there, and to give they didn’t have money, they simply didn’t understand the value of things, they gave money to the communists not so that they would vote correctly, that they were a communist party, a pro-union organization, a newspaper, but they spent millions of ours and you on this, before the money that our parents earned, they gave it all to the communist party of san marino, relatively speaking, or italy, until the italian communists became their enemies there, well , then they gave it to some other communists, and china to the communist parties of greece marxist-leninist, well, that cannot be said, it is simply because otherwise the communist movement could not exist, they

acted that way. and then, when they became market countries, they suddenly realized that they could just buy services for themselves, well , at first they just started buying services, they came to amsterdam, they sit there, people of different styles, to be politically correct in shop windows, all like that oh, and yes, oh, and they realized that these services can be bought directly legally, and then we realized that this wonderful storefront house, with this beauty. go straight to the parliament, no one usually sits there naked, but they will also take money if they find the right person, and a completely different life began, and this is a question that was still asked in the 90s, whether the west will change russia with its approaches, or whether russia will change we come back to the conversation about the khizzher at the beginning , will russia change the course, when they will just go around and hand out envelopes to us, well , we can already see all this moral decay, not all of them

, there are many decent people, but people who are dishonest , they just help each other, well, how i would say, the degradation of this system is such a large scale, and then again, when you start to think, they are probably just acting because they need to protect some of their political interests, and then they see what is behind it. why did i tell this story with gas in detail, we can see that there are no political interests behind it, well , a responsible politician of the level of orban, a very strong politician, cannot not understand that he is spending extra money, he is not an idiot, but if there is some personal interest rather than everything, it can be anything, and we, as people who live in a corrupt society, have to be aware of the mentality of those with whom we deal, this is a very important question that can end our conversation today, thank you khrystyna, yes thank you vitaly, it was saturday's political club... and

actually we will meet next saturday, thank you, then our colleagues continue the broadcast, be with espresso. all the best to you. news time on the espresso tv channel, we are coming to you from the shelter, because the air alert continues throughout the territory of ukraine, could so far is in the air and will probably be refueled, so the air alarm will last longer.