evening with you, wait, can ukraine remain without the help of the united states, we are talking about it today on bbc ukraine, in the studio of olga palamaryuk. congress must approve the aid package. ukraine before the christmas holidays, president biden appealed to american lawmakers. will the senators hear the call, why are they actually delaying the approval of the aid? the u.s. senate, the democratic-dominated chamber of the u.s. congress, is scheduled to vote today on an aid package for ukraine. the same one the biden administration is asking for already seven weeks, without which

it will be difficult for the ukrainian troops on the front lines. and before the decisive vote, president biden addressed the congressmen. congress must pass additional funding for ukraine before going on christmas break. everything is simple. frankly, i think it's amazing that we've even gotten to this point. congress is ready to give putin the biggest gift he could hope for and relinquish our global leadership. and about this a little with... let's talk with the correspondents in washington, the day before, a closed briefing in the us senate, where volodymyr zelenskyi was supposed to speak about the course of hostilities, ended in disappointment, but the speech was interrupted, why? because internal issues were discussed in the senate , the ambassador of ukraine to the usa, oksana markarova, said this, and the minister of defense of ukraine, rustem umyerov, who is currently in the states, announced that the president would hold a briefing when it will be, maybe next time, but the republicans left the meeting disappointed

committee, they will vote today, by the way, from hour to hour, and before that my colleagues the bbc spoke to a senator from new hampshire and asked what would happen if american lawmakers were unable to vote on a new aid package for ukraine. i think we need to continue working on this until the package is approved, because it is critical to stop vladimir putin now. after all, we heard from him, and we know from the leaders of the baltic countries, poland, and other eastern european countries, that according to their beliefs, and i believe it, if putin achieves what he wants in ukraine, then he will move on to the baltic countries, he will attack on poland, romania, well, they just talked about it with the romanian prime minister. senator, do i understand correctly that you are saying that if aid to ukraine is not approved by the end of the year, then in your opinion, putin will win this war? no. i am saying that we should work

to approve aid to ukraine by the end of this year, because i think it is extremely important to continue to support ukraine, it is in the interests of the national security of the united states, european security and global security, we must not allow , for a dictator like putin thought he could take over some country, that is exactly what he is trying to do in ukraine, and at the same time he is committing war crimes against the people of ukraine. there was a lot of optimism that sooner or later it would happen and maybe by the end of this year, but now we see that literally in an hour the first vote in the senate is to take place, and it is not a vote, i must say, for the entire aid package, in particular, where there are also 60 billion for ukraine, and this is even a procedural vote to start a debate on the approval of this draft law, and already this, potentially this vote can be blocked by republicans, before we remember

only republicans in the house of representatives wanted to tie aid to ukraine to strengthening the security of the american southern border, now republicans in the senate, in particular mitch mccone, the leader of the republicans, say that such by their blocking of this bill, they want to show how important it is to them that the administration pay attention to america's own border before helping other countries, joe biden must say in his speech today, which was quite unexpected, today he held the first virtual meeting with the countries of the group of seven, which was also attended by the president of ukraine, volodymyr zelenskyi, and after that he addressed the congress and once again emphasized that he was actually surprised that that the republicans have even reached this point, the legislators have reached, he says that if the republicans, if the congress does not approve aid for ukraine, it will only strengthen putin's strategic position. we heard from the white house earlier that. if it stops

american funding, this will actually weaken ukrainian positions, and this cannot be allowed, and today president biden actually said in his speech that the democrats are ready to negotiate, and to make certain concessions regarding the resolution of the southern border issue, however, he said that no, no party, neither democrats nor republicans, can allow the funding for ukraine to stop, because he emphasized once again, it is absolutely in the interests of the united states, the united states does not want to send its military to fight in europe, if, after all, if putin, if putin's aggression intensifies and it expands to other european countries, and that is why he said, it must be done. rather, yes, we will also talk about the border topic today, but returning to president zelensky, he was supposed to speak at the briching as planned, but it did not happen, i wonder how the american media covers it? the american media, of course, paid attention to

the fact that the president of ukraine, volodymyr zelensky, at the last moment canceled his participation in the virtual participation in the closed briefing for senators, i will also expect to meet him first. for congressmen, but as rustem umirov said later, in an interview , on one of the channels, this is fox, he said that there is actually a war going on, and different things happen, so it is absolutely normal that plans change, but it is worth noting that today the ukrainian president and participated in the meeting of the group of seven here, which took place virtually, and he also addressed the participants of a large conference, which is also taking place here in washington, this is an extremely important moment, this is a conference defense industrial and defense sector. this conference is aimed at americans and ukrainians, ukrainian representatives of american business finding ways to cooperate to increase the production of arms for ukraine, and volodymyr zelenskyy addressed this conference, it is expected that

certain agreements may be reached as a result of this conference, which will aimed at strengthening own production of weapons for ukraine's needs. yes, julia, thank you, voice of america correspondent, julia yarmolenko, was on our air. well, let's continue the topic , bbc correspondent myroslava petsa joins me in the studio, my colleague, i congratulate you, you worked in washington, you know american politics well, tell me about all these events, you personally, are surprised at the numbers, and if in the past year, in the 22nd year of support, the americans' aid to ukraine was higher, we can say this for sure, because all 24% of americans believed that america provides too little aid, but it helps too much, this year already 41% yes believes, at the same time, if in august that year, 25% believed that america provides too much aid, this year, this

figure is already 38%, and the parties cannot help but reflect these sentiments of the population, especially the republican party, which came to the fore... as if a small but quite influential group of trumpists, and despite the fact that we understand that the lion's share of american parliaments, congressmen, will continue to strongly support this country, and even the new speaker of the house of representatives, mike johnson, has already declared that ukraine is a priority, we we understand that both parties are aware that providing aid to ukraine is inevitable, because this is a critical issue for america, for the biden administration, so they are trying to use this time for themselves with maximum benefit, and we must remember that 2024 is the year of the presidential elections in america, and on all the events in washington should be viewed precisely through the prism of this, when the republican party will try

to use the time before the approval of aid to ukraine for its own benefit, for example, by tying the package to the package with ukraine: the southern border, at the same time, democrats from time to time declare that they will not vote for the package to ukraine if this issue is tied up, therefore, the big groan in the room is the presidential election, and ukraine gets into these internal political strife very, very untimely for itself. dmyroslav, you mentioned about johnson, yes, it is important to explain to our viewers what caused the conflict the day before, namely the strengthening of the us border with mexico. democrats oppose tougher immigration policies that republicans are pushing for, and all of those measures go in one package together with aid to ukraine and israel. well, before we talk about it, i suggest listening to the speaker of the us house of representatives, mike johnson. i will simply

tell you that any national security package must begin with the security of our own border. this is what the american people deserve. for the past few weeks i have traveled across our country, no matter where i have been, new york or south texas, all people, no matter what party they support, they are all deeply concerned about an open south border, they see how it affects their country. there are important questions that we need to answer before we can proceed with negotiations. how will the situation in ukraine end, and how will we be able to control the us taxpayers' money invested there, because when we all return to our local districts, they will ask us how we can protect the borders of other countries if we cannot protect our own? and it is to this question that the white house should help us find an answer. so, myroslav, for the problem of the us-mexico border, they are far away, so tell me what you want please, what do they mean for americans,

for americans, in fact, this is the number one problem, no matter how strange it may sound now for ukrainians, well, it would seem, well, how can you compare the war in europe, especially the war after the second world war with the migrant crisis, but this problem in america did not arise yesterday, and it arose even before the presidency of donald trump, we all remember how donald trump promised an impregnable wall and how then whole families of migrants were detained at the border, how families were separated, how children were lost parents, with during the presidency of joe biden, this problem did not disappear, on the contrary, in the first year of his presidency, 1.6 billion people arrived in america through the southern border, which is four times more than in the previous year, and sociologists associate this moment with the fact that migrants believed that the democrat joe biden, his administration, his policies would be ... more lenient towards migrants, but america is choking now because of this, and there are simply not

enough people to turn in so many migrants, and the cornerstone of this issue, at the border, is used by many parties, therefore it's such a touchy, touchy moment and also associated with deaths, for example, the synthetic drug fontanil, most of it is imported right through the southern border, and last year in america, about 200 people died every day from this drug, so it's touchy, sensitive, a very tragic question for americans, probably like our war for us. thank you, myroslava, myroslava , a bbc correspondent, was with me in the studio, helped me understand domestic american politics, and by the way, i advise everyone who is interested in this to read an article on our bbc website: ua, well, that's all for today, look for more stories as usual on our bbc.ua website, as well as on our

pages in social networks, we are on youtube, facebook, tiktok, our program will be on the air tomorrow , as always at 21, good luck and take care. greetings, friends, the live broadcast of the tv channel continues with the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, for the next 45 minutes we will talk about the following. sbu special operation. who is involved in the murder of the fugitive traitor ilya kivya. finan. support of the united states. what to expect in ukraine and how will it affect the situation at

the front? ukraine's difficult path to the european union? how to find understanding with neighboring countries? we conduct surveys throughout the program. friends, today we ask you about whether ukraine should make concessions for peace with russia. yes, no, please vote on youtube and on tv if you 're sitting and watching ours. tv, please pick up your phone or smartphone and vote if you think that ukraine should make concessions for peace with russia, your phone number is 0800-211-381, no, 0800-211-382, call, all calls to these numbers are free. today , the best political experts of ukraine are visiting us. volodymyr fisenko. mr. volodymyr, i congratulate you. greetings, good evening. andrii smolii, mr. andrii, i congratulate you, good evening, glory to ukraine, glory to the heroes, and

vitaliy kulyk should also join us, he is not in touch yet, but i hope that he will join our program, there is , yes, mr. vitaly, good evening, i am glad to see you on our air, i congratulate you, come on, gentlemen, let's start our conversation with a blitz poll, because we have been asking for two hours already, for the second hour we have been asking our tv viewers whether ukraine should make concessions for peace with russia, i will also ask you what you think about this, if ukraine can make concessions concessions, what kind of concessions can they be and whether such a concession formula for the sake of peace is acceptable at all, mr. vitaly, we will start with you, and it is obvious that any negotiations are compromises, at the moment it is not worth talking about any concessions, therefore that we don't know everyone, xs and igreeks of a possible negotiation process, such a negotiation process has not yet

started, so what concessions are we talking about, no concessions, thank you, andrei? we have to understand that the hot phase of the war is currently taking place, that is, the war has not gone anywhere. in fact, we see now that on the one hand , the russians are trying to advance somewhere, we are still trying to press and win back our territories, no negotiations are taking place, so i think that we cannot talk about any concessions for today, at least not at all worth but in the end, we have to understand that any global concessions, any things in principle that will be, conditionally speaking, in favor of russia, the same terrorist state will simply use against us, so we must be very careful when talking about it, and now i i think, in principle, there is nothing to talk about, the war is going on, and we must do everything to win this war and, in the end, make our

position as strong as possible, as powerful as possible, even if there will be some theoretical negotiations in the future. thank you, mr. andriy, mr. volodymyr, first of all you have to understand that the interests of ukraine and russia, regarding the end of the war, in the absolute majority of issues, especially in matters of principle, are the status of the occupied territories, or, for example, the issue of security guarantees for ukraine , in particular our relations with nato, they cannot be the subject of negotiations and compromises are unacceptable for us. to make concessions on the issue of the status of the occupied territories, we will not agree that they be recognized as russian, and russia will not give us anything, this is a key issue, there can be no compromise here even theoretically, i think that in the issue of nato, although i think that this will still be the subject of certain discussions, but i think that

a compromise is not possible here either, so in the future, when the matter comes. to some negotiations sooner or later, i think that the question will be only about the end of hostilities, about the cessation of hostilities, in particular air attacks, and also about the exchange, full exchange, of prisoners and those who are, well, let's say, hostages in russia, this, yes, this will be the subject of negotiations, and the last thing, in order for the war to end, russia still needs to... be forced to peace, this is something the russian formula, they invented them at one time, forcing peace, but russia will have to be forced to make peace, there will be no peace just like that, but this should be remembered by all those who are now crying about the need to go to negotiations immediately, about to negotiate something, russia will not negotiate now, it will issue ultimatums to us, but we must

force russia to make peace, a peace that will be acceptable to us. thank you, mr. volodymyr. so, gentlemen, let's start our conversation with an unusual event that happened today in the suburbs of moscow, because a collaborator was shot there ilya kivu, and this was done by our special forces, well, at least the security service of ukraine is involved in this, everyone is talking about it, the body of the former people's deputy of ukraine was found in the village of suponevo, odentsovsky district, moscow region, and it cannot help but be happy if it was on the day saint nicholas was not heard, but the fact that the collaborators who fled to russia are finally getting what they deserve, what do you think about what happened to kiva, and how do you think this murder will affect the behavior of those

who simply fled to of russia and conducts his own from there anti-ukrainian activities, but the language... this is not even about individuals, but probably about hundreds of people who were in the former government, and in the current government, were, i mean in the parliamentary government, but who scratched their way to russia and are hiding there. mr. andrii, what do you think about everything that is happening now in the village of suponeva, odentsovsky district? well, if you rely on what she said there, our official ones. yes individuals and our own mass media, indeed, as far as i understand, it a special operation of the ukrainian special services, by the way, if we are talking about the liquidation of these collaborators, people who betrayed their country, who were betrayed by someone in the 14th year, someone a little later, but who carried out

moscow politics here, well, kiva is not the first , kiva is not the last, that is, before that there was a whole series of such persons, we see how such collaborators are practically eliminated, neutralized, by the way, not only collaborators, but bright representatives of the army there, the terrorist state in the occupied territories, yes, that is why it is quite normal process and it shows to others, that as they say, there will be retribution, so we must understand that there are a lot of such people, such people there, so to speak, indeed, you are absolutely right, hundreds, if not thousands, if we talk about the regional scale, about people, who betrayed their country there at the local level, there are a lot of such people. but at least kiva, well, he is a bright representative, a bright propagandist, who initially for years here in ukraine conducted about moscow propaganda, now he very actively

participated in various moscow television platforms, yes, that is why his its liquidation, accordingly, its neutralization, this is a very good bell, and a very good demonstration to all these muscovites, to all the traitors who went to russia, and not only to russia, about the fact that, well, you must somehow understand, ukraine itself will defend, ukraine will demonstrate that it is also ready to go the way of finding such persons who every day flood the country that gave them citizenship, that they betrayed, so that it concerns the behavior there, relatively speaking , of these people in the future, other people, but us we understand well, they are also on the hook for the rashists, i.e. people like kiva there and others like him, they also have to practice those propagandist things, those

methods that are provided to them there, or by the fsb or other special services of the russian federation, and of course that they essentially turn out to be such a situation that on the one hand they can be persecuted and can really be liquidated there from the ukrainian side, on the other. on the other hand , we must understand that the russian side can also liquidate these people, for what for a propaganda purpose , that is, it has already happened more than once, when actually traitors, those people who actually sided with the kremlin, were also liquidated by the russian special services, for what, in order to show , including from a propaganda point of view, , look at the fascists , the people of bandera, and so on, what they are doing, yes, that is, this too, then that, that level, relatively speaking, which, which is, and these people will do well to continue practicing russian propaganda, because

they understand , if the ukrainians do not get them special services, then they can become an object, including the russian special services, if they do not do what they are told in the kremlin, because they are, in fact, complete puppets of the kremlin, they are completely dependent... on the kremlin and their life also depends on the kremlin, accordingly, they will not do what the kremlin tells them, the kremlin will not have them, that is , traitors are not liked anywhere, and traitors will eventually end up where kyiv is today, where motorola was before that, where zakharchenko was, where they are constantly like this the so-called fake deputies of the terrorist national people's republic, where kyryll stremousov ended up there. and other persons, we must understand that ukraine will fight for its land and its security,

well, we must also understand that the rashists will liquidate and destroy those who are either no longer needed by them, as scrap material, or who will they use, whose death, more precisely, will they use for their propaganda purposes, well , kiva has already received his punishment from the ukrainian state, but there are many former comrades of kyiv, who continue to sit under the dome of the verkhovna rada of ukraine and feel at ease, why, mr. vitaly, the responsibility for people like kyiv, who were in the opposition platform during their lifetime, comes to them only when they leave the borders of the ukrainian state, because well, in my memory, shufrych only sat down for treason and sits in sizo and so on, his guilt has not been proven there in a court of law, but this big

fifth column in the state, it is not counted only by 10 or 20 deputies opzzh in the verkhovna rada, because in local elections there more than 4,000, if i am not mistaken, deputies of the opposition platform were elected for life and in only a few local councils the membership of these deputies was suspended, and as they were oppositionists, they remain, if possible, i will make a small comment about the reaction of the so-called criminal... refugees , in the moscow region, because we already see in the telegram channels how a whole form of hysteria is happening with such a chelelenka, who is now positioning himself as a political comment, he is already urgently seeking protection for himself, we see how they refused today and tomorrow the day after tomorrow from the broadcasts, some of our former colleagues, who suddenly became politically ill, were scared, fear, this is the reaction... to

today's event, this is really panic fear, fear that they will come at any moment, i hope that they will come not only for scum like kiva, but also for sivkovovych, for azarov, for people who directly led to the possibility of invasion and annexation of ukrainian territories, regarding that, regarding the punishment of acting members of the verkhovna rada, yes, i agree that this is a big understatement. rather what now they are not directly responsible, the remnants of the opzh faction, due to the fact that they are part of the voting machine in the verkhovna rada, since this group votes as the servants of the people vote, accordingly they are part of the modern monomajority in the pubs, they are situational allies of the servants of the people, more moreover, in some cities, representatives of the former opzh party formed the so-called...

situational majority of city councils, which are based on the same servants of the people and entered the executive committees, of course, they formed their own the mandate, submitted their party tickets, left the factions, and even before the official ban of the opposition bloc, opzzh, and other currently banned political parties, but evil has not been punished, so in my opinion, the best option in this situation is to create a purification of our politics , it is possible to lustrate representatives not only of the deputies of the verkhovna rada, to whom they belonged, but also of deputies of local councils, candidates for deputies from banned political parties, members of commissions from precinct to central, the election commission from banned political parties, but if they are registered, then

it will really be possible to say about the partial cleansing of our political system from the russian fifth column, but this is not yet in the interests of the ruling power, which is trying in every way to slow down or prevent the adoption of this lustration bill, by the way, several versions of this bill are registered in the verkhovna rada: the servants do not let them go, maybe they are interested in preserving the rags of the opzh and joint voting, effective voting. mr. volodymyr, what happened with kyva, a month ago, almost happened.