parties, but if they are registered, then it will really be possible to talk about the partial cleansing of our political system from the russian fifth column, but this is not yet in the interests of the ruling power, which is trying in every way to slow down or prevent the adoption of this lustration bill, by the way, several versions of this draft law are registered in the verkhovna rada, the servants are not giving them a go, maybe they are interested in preserving the rags of the obzh and a joint vote, a productive vote by the verkhovna rada. mr. volodymyr, what happened with the kiva a month ago, almost happened with oleg tsarev, or rather, no , no, it did not happen, although tsarev, we remember , was seen in the kyiv region after february 24, 2022, he was brought in order, as i understand it, to make him the executive director of ukraine , or i don't know how it is possible. was to name his position, but he was

on the territory of the ukrainian state at the beginning of the russian aggression, yanukovych was brought to minsk and they also wanted, they say, to bring him to ukraine and continued, to extend his term of office, which he did not win in the 14th year of these there are too many people in the russian federation and many of them have already started doing business, some of them are used, vitaly mentioned both chelelenka and karnilov, you wanted to mention those propagandists who, in principle, became part of this great propaganda machine, in such the ukrainians, it seems, who help valdemar there or bring shells to valdemar, well, something like that in the anecdotes, you see, they, they are part of this big machine, what happened in kiev, does this mean that in ukraine the sbu is turning into that massad which , in principle, can get anyone, and is it

the slow trickle of these propagandists who are part of a big machine, the kremlin machine, which is trying to use them in yet another hybrid war, in an informational hybrid war against ukraine, yes, i think that now many people, well, vitaly prochalenko mentioned, i think, not only him, but also those who have a higher status, taking into account, in fact, not a small status in all those collaborative structures that used by russia in the same tsar who since the 14th year he headed the so -called parliament, the so-called malorossii, novorossiy , sorry, sorry, novorossii, yes, but for them it is almost the same thing, yes, here they are, they tried to use it in such a status, where this parliament looked up, now they don't remember it anymore.

but tsarov remained such a prominent figure , and kivo tried to be a propagandist, what happened, i think, yes, this is a signal, i think that both the sbu and the ukrainian military intelligence, they really work now according to the mossad model, for us it is an experimental war, a war , which has a huge meaning , the meaning of being, the meaning of the future, and this is what is happening , this is a demonstration, there will be no mercy for the traitors, and i think most of these people will live in fear now, some will be affected, some i think may leave , will try to run away somewhere, hide, stop their treasonous activities, someone will continue it, because there is no other way out, but they will live in fear, by the way, this is a very revealing reaction of the russian zmi to the death of the skiva, ah, i am i looked, well... i'll just

quote some things that will not be included there are no ukrainian or russian positive obituaries about kiva, they write it in russia , famously margarita simonyan wrote her among strangers, a stranger among her own, they kill their own, so the question is who are theirs, i don’t know who are theirs now for kiva, it is very similar a specific, adventurous character, but i think what he got is the fate of a traitor, and i think that's just the sentence for people like him, and it's a signal to others, yes, this is what will happen, even if you are removed , gentlemen, dishonorable traitors, they will not remember you in russia, you really are such consumables that were used and thrown into the garbage, that's the fate, but as for... to fight with the fifth column, according to

the opzzh, well, there are legal nuances here, and they are already arising, well, here, as at one time was in the 14th year with lustration. when our european friends told us that this is not possible, here there are such barriers, by the way, there are also certain bills from the deputies from the servants of the people, regarding the prohibition of participation in the elections, such people from the opzzh, but i will pay attention to something else , but i am worried much more than those who are now adapted , fell silent, he is trying to survive there, in any case, they do not cause external damage, but it is necessary to follow them, to follow them, and here is the other thing, the people who were in medvedchuk's propaganda network before the war, before the russian invasion, before of the great war, now they have become active again, and they are working very aggressively, very powerfully, and i think that in

the security service of ukraine, we should pay attention to such people, because now, in our current situation, internal and external, it is necessary to fight with such informational influence, because it works much worse than my father 's former fifth column, it may be of the future, so it is necessary to monitor it, but it is necessary to pay special attention to those people who are actually currently working in interests of medvedchuk in the role of so-called peacekeepers who advocate actively for peace, for immediate peace with russia, and essentially work according to the kremlin's methods, and since you have already mentioned who worked for medvedchuk and continues to share his views with them, we can't remember those many people who worked on his tv channels, on all these, 112, and then moved, some of them to a single

telethon, some to a youtube channel, and they behave quite aggressively, really, and pretend that they were not them tangential to all that. and to that media empire owned by viktor medvedchuk, which was closed in february 2021 by the decision of the national security and defense council, and this is also a big question, mr. andriy, this is a question for you, if possible, why, yes, why actually, why these all the representatives of all these medvedchukivsky cesspools, they were, remain in the information space, and in what way can they be localized? yes, sergey, if you can , about this, really, this is a big problem, because those people who are really not only on medvedchuk’s channels, but also, let’s remember murayev’s channel, are people who are currently actively working on youtube, who

effective or not, that is another question, but they shake up the situation, talk about peace, which in fact bring out various issues, including national issues, there language, culture, there decolonization, decommunization. they are starting to pour mud on everything again, yes, that is, they are present, moreover, i want to say, if we could talk, well, these people, you know, they left the country, they are not there, they are, relatively speaking, leading their own, their own there channels , their resources from abroad, but no, many of these people visit us in kyiv, live in ukraine, run the same youtube channels, we are also talking about journalists, the so-called fake ones, because journalists . it is impossible to name these people in quotation marks, and about experts, and many of them, they are here in ukraine, and they are already shaking up the situation here in ukraine, and here in ukraine they are shaking up these pro-russian narratives, relatively speaking, they moved away from the shock that was in the 22nd year,

they realized that many of them, well , relatively speaking, they don’t touch, and they have become active again, we, we can generally see on the same youtube what is being done, moreover, there are resources that are still affiliated with the former opzzh, yes, they are also there in principle on youtube, and someone not only on youtube, they are trying to actually broadcast, they are trying to invite again the same experts who were there under medvedchuk and so on and the like, and the question arises, really, why no one asks these people, well, how can this be at all, how can it be at that moment , when ukraine is fighting with, when the defenders are fighting, when rockets are flying over ukraine, shaheds, when russia is waging its aggressive, hybrid, including war, and these people continue, relatively speaking , to shake up the situation, this is an open question, why so, that is, or there is no political will, or there is not, conditionally speaking, or there is some there, or

some secret decision not to touch them, or there is no evidence, well, i absolutely do not believe in this, the fact that there is no evidence, all the evidence can be opened now... and see that what these people did, what they said, and for whom they worked, that is , i think that it is time, not that it is time, the situation has actually become overripe, when those people who were before... who are today, who will continue to rock the situation, especially taking into account the fact that the rashists have become extremely active in the mass media abroad and in us in ukraine, i think it's time, and it's long overdue, and here i'm not even talking only about media people, here we've already mentioned politicians, about former deputies there from pro-russian political forces, they have also become more active, they are also there they start barking something, whining against certain pro-ukrainian things, we see how the fifth column has become active again in defense, for example, the ukrainian orthodox church, the mp, yes, the russian orthodox church, the russian

church, we see how 44, 44 people's deputies sign a letter there , in fact, which should block, relatively speaking, the vote government draft law, regarding, well , conditionally speaking, banning the russian orthodox church in ukraine, yes, that is, this is also a vivid example of the fact that these people are active . i think that among those who actually put such signatures, i think that among those who tells us about the measure at any price, i think that those who today are raising the issue of the russian language again in ukraine, i think that the sbu and other law enforcement agencies should have a question for them, thank you, thank you, mr. andriy , mr. vitaly, this is why, according to you , the security service of ukraine does not touch those who should have beeped, or it doesn't affect me yet, but... two years of war, in principle, i guess there are a lot of questions for journalists, and for public

figures, and for church figures, but this fifth column was and remains in to ukraine, this fifth column can at any moment play against ukraine, against all of us, well, i have a question for our special service, why, in particular, they allowed some to leave. why are there really no preventive measures, or at least no information about the facts of the investigation into the activities of the network that carried out propaganda work, and i know that some created for what conversations, but these conversations did not go further, these stories, but really for a certain period of time, networks that were under the control of stola, medvedchuk and other people, the

same panamarov, who is currently sitting, by the way, another deputy of the opzh, which is now in sizo, their financial resources were used either to fill a single marathon or as accompanying resources to relay the narratives needed by the authorities, at that time... it was logical, it was understandable and they did fulfill their task, but now yes, it feels that there is a smell in the air, the resumption of political life, there has been a lot of talk about the elections, and from time to time we see the emergence of new copper projects, new youtube channels, the creation of new pools from specific political forces or political groups that push a certain agenda , which will then lie as the basis of the election campaign of one or another political force. we

can see two or three shades of conditional wool, several shades of urapatriotic forces there, which in their drive, mastering the current power, go as far as accusing them of betraying everything, if possible, they are artificially fanning the situation , stirring up society and inspiring various conflicts, contradictions that may not exist, that 's all, and by the way, representatives who were, so to speak , a moderate cotton wool before the great tuesday, participate in this drive. in my opinion, at the moment,

it is enough to talk about the fact that there is some unambiguous, unified information policy that will allow us to sift through the entire media field and remove from it russian agents or pro-russian carriers of pro-russian narratives. difficult, because people mimic from the conditional moderate cotton wool and measurement in the whole world to some kind of patriotic rhetoric back, on the one hand, or perform the tasks of this or that group in power or close to power, relaying their na... and thus become necessary , besides, we hear more and more from our western partners that everything is not going well with freedom of speech and democrats in ukraine. and that bringing the information policy to uniformity is about the same telethon, in fact, there is a hidden struggle from another, with another opinion, with freedom of speech, er, it is worth admitting that in

some cases it is so, because sanctions are applied selectively... and pressure is exerted, including on oppositional or critically critical media resources critical of the current government come to them and to say that let's reduce everything to one common denominator, well, i'm just afraid that the common denominator will be a telethon, that's why this kind of thing is quite careful, you have to be careful with it and not give in... to the authorities in the temptation of this authoritarianism of monotony , thank you, thank you, mr. vitaly, gentlemen, let's do it a short pause, literally a minute, and we will return to our broadcast. usual tasks become unreal, heavy bags are not for my

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vasyl zima's big broadcast, a project for smart and caring people, espresso in the evening. verdict by serhiy rudenko, from now on in a new two-hour format, even more analytics, even more important topics, even more top guests: foreign experts, inclusion from abroad, about ukraine, the world, the front, society, and also feedback, you you can express your opinion on the evil of the day with the help of a telephone survey, turn on and turn on, the verdict with serhiy rudenko, every weekday, from 20 to 22: on espresso. friends, we are working live, this is the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, today we are asking you about whether ukraine should make concessions for the sake of peace from russia, yes, no, please vote on youtube, as well as by phone lines, on the screens you now see phone numbers, if

you think that ukraine should make concessions for the sake of peace with russia, phone 0800-2138 or 0800-211-382 call, all calls to these numbers are free, at the end of the program we will sum up this vote. today we have the best politicians as guests experts of ukraine, volodymyr fressenko, andriy smoliy and vitaly kulyk. gentlemen, literally an hour before our broadcast, joseph biden spoke and talked about what will happen in the congress of the united states of america, there should be a vote there. for the allocation of additional funds in ukraine in the amount of 61 billion dollars and said about what will happen if we, he said, if we do not vote. americans will not vote for this, we need to bring putin to justice, said biden, if putin takes over ukraine, he will not be there will stop, he will attack

nato allies, and we will see how the american military will fight against the russian military, today's vote will be remembered for a long time, we cannot allow putin to win, - said biden, and he also said that, well, actually he openly said that there is...' the possibility that putin will go further to ukraine, and he means to europe, if those who do not want to vote for additional funding for ukraine do not come to their senses, and this is what andriy actually repeated the fair, which, being in of the united states of america, said that ukraine could lose the war with russia without the help of the united states of america. mr. vladimir, what biden said and this warning is serious for senators and congressmen that if you do not vote, then there will be a much wider war, meaning in europe, then the americans

will have to participate in this war, or these arguments are persuasive in your opinion, for the republicans, who, in aid packages to ukraine, ask the question of migration policy, the creation of some kind of border with mexico, i.e., are these threats proportionate, and do the republicans understand this? well, for us, it is definitely not proportionate, and i think that some republicans, senators, congressmen, and republicans also believe that the protection of ukraine, the support of ukraine, is a national security interest for the united states. but trouble. in the fact that the issue of the border , as well as changes in the migration legislation in the usa, is now a fundamental issue for the republicans, they have brought it to the forefront, they say publicly, including the speaker

of the lower house, congress, with whom by the way the ukrainian delegation met today, they publicly say, yes, we support aid to ukraine, we will support it, but only when our demand is resolved. an increase in funding for the border with mexico and a change in immigration legislation will be voted on, and this is already an internal political issue, unfortunately we have become hostages of this internal struggle, i will say my subjective opinion, it may be unpopular, but i don't care what the bill is will vote in the end, for the democratic party of the white house or from republicans, in fact, only a compromise bill will have a chance, where the position of both democrats and republicans will be agreed, but the most important thing for us is that there is help for ukraine, and as soon as possible,

because it has already been delayed for two months, and this is a delay, this issue of life and death is real, it has a real dimension from the lives of our soldiers, today we all congratulate the armed forces, with a happy holiday, but now we need not only faith in the forces of ukraine, we need help, and from ukrainians, and in the literal sense, and from ours partners as well, therefore a compromise, there must be a compromise, here are the words of biden, unfortunately, the right words, absolutely the right words, the call is right, the diagnosis is right, but unfortunately, today it is not enough, a compromise is needed, and that is why i wish, and i i know, i pray there, there, how to say there. our ambassador to the usa, ms. oksana markarova, is holding her hands for this, yes, yes, a compromise is needed so that in the end aid for ukraine, well, along with israel, was voted, thank you,

thank you, mr. volodymyr, mr. andriy, why ukrainians , already in the second year, or two years of the great war, 10 years of war with russia, why do we constantly have to prove to the world that what russia is doing in ukraine will threaten not only ukraine, but the whole world. unfortunately, these are the realities of the world, we see that indeed, political certain things, in various states, not only in the united states of america, they prevail over a rational point of view, not that point of view, but a vision of what is, in principle, what is russia, what is putin, that you need to put aside your certain political... preferences, political games, the election campaign and fight against the evil that can lead to the third world war, we have to understand, if really now,

when the united states of america, the european union, other civilized countries, and sorry, do not make an effort to help ukraine, the situation can really get out of control , and not only in ukraine, we see, today, how putin is already flying there to the united arab emirates, to saudi arabia, we see how putinists, rashists intensify their media and political activities to everything of the world, we see how they are actively trying to stir up... other conflicts, so this is not even a matter of some kind of dispute, it is a matter of a planetary scale, but with regard to the united states of america, well , it is quite clear here, an election campaign has actually started, an election campaign that will be very dirty, as in principle the previous one was , even before that, very dirty, and unfortunately, we ukrainians are becoming hostages of this election

campaign, we have to understand that this is not the position of the majority of republicans there against ukraine, this is the position of already certain pre-election campaigners postulates, which essentially make us allocate funds, not only to us, but to israel , we will also say, there are some points, yes in terms of global security, they simply make us hostages of all this, but on the other hand, this is also the case, including indeed , the same congressmen who express such a certain pro-russian position, although they are a minority , there are not so many of them, and we have to convince them, but i will say the last thing here, actually not so much in this case, specifically in this case it depends on us, here it really depends on how fast actually will be able to come to an agreement and reach a certain

consensus consensus... oral version republicans and democrats, although we also have to convince , speak, explain, without this, without this international, mr. andrii, mr. vitaly, what do you think this whole discussion between the democrats is about and it will end with the republicans, because really, as mr. volodymyr said, this is the life and death of many of our compatriots who are currently at the front, well, i could of course say pathetically that they should reconcile, shake the people's hand, ukraine, no, it seems to me that there is a classic unfolding of the plot of the movie, do not look up, that is, the united states is actually destroying its monopoly in the world with its own hands , it is leading and shaking, and helping to destroy, i mean the trumpists, to destroy the existing world order, and

only fluff will make them come to their senses, bring them to some reasonable feeling. which will be unexpected for the american political elite and it will be a blow to the states directly. that's when it will be possible to unite democrats, trumpists, and republicans into one to fly there, in one political will, which will go to counteract the global evil, which is declared by russia or china, or someone else who will carry out this attack. i don't believe in compromise in this case. i urge you to prepare for the worst, i believe that the event has done something to reduce and amortize possible negative losses, maybe later at some stage we will be able to extract this aid and support in parts, the financial burden has been transferred , this burden is being transferred to european partners, to australia, japan, south korea, south korea is already our

main supply partner. ammunition , we receive weapons and ammunition from third markets, it is worth talking about loans, about receiving not aid, but directly credit lines, and this will mean that for us the economy is forever burdened, and first of all, we have to put up with our eastern partners, eastern european partners, look for points of contact, step on the throat of their songs, build ammunition mines on the borders and prepare a very difficult winter. thank you, mr. vitaly, the time of our program, gentlemen ran to the end. vitaly kulyk, andriy smoliy and volodymyr fissenko were guests of our program today. thank you for participating in the program, gentlemen. let me remind you that during our program we conducted a survey and asked you, friends, whether ukraine should make concessions for peace with russia. what are the results of the poll we have on tv.