which will make it possible to receive new types of weapons and ammunition of our own production on a daily basis, and i emphasize once again, an active, effective prepared strategy on the front on the free territory, this sector will already be determined, all these prospects are there, thank you mr. mykola, mykola malamush, general of the army of ukraine, the head of the intelligence service of the foreign intelligence of ukraine in the 5-10s , thank you for this conversation, we are going to take a short break, then we will talk about how we should properly honor our fallen heroes and whether it is okay to make a silicon copy of a person, millions saw this man get shot, is that okay? let's talk about that in the next few minutes. problems with the joints limit movement, it is unpleasant and painful. strengthen them with the help of dolgit joints, these are sachets with collagen and vitamin c to

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have become like family to many, as well as distinguished guests of the studio: the events of the day in two hours, vasyl zima's big broadcast, a project for smart and caring people, in the evening at espresso. verdict with serhiy rudenko, from now on in a new two-hour format, even more analytics , even more important topics, even more top guests, foreign experts, inclusion from abroad, about ukraine, the world, the front, society, and also feedback, you can. you can express your opinion out of spite of the day with the help of a telephone survey, turn on and turn on, the verdict with serhii rudenko, every weekday from 20 to 22 at espresso. dear friends, we are back on the air and now we will talk about how we should perpetuate the memory of our fallen heroes, how to do it. what, whether there should

be some unified look, whether they have, whether these monuments should be different, and what are monuments in general, can silicon be considered a monument. new or some kind of wax figure, we will talk about all this with pavel gudimov, ukrainian gallerist, curator and the founder of the art center i am galireya, who is joining our marathon, mr. pavle , we congratulate you, i congratulate you, in fact, last week and even this week it still got so hot, the discussion was heated, after being staged in kyiv under such a glass dome, with a cap, a figure, probably more correctly... the figure of the fallen hero oleksandr matsievsky, who was killed by the russians, filmed all this, this execution and whose last words were glory to ukraine, glory to the hero, and actually he was immortalized in this form, and it immediately stirred

a huge discussion among ukrainians, some said that it is beautiful, and such monuments should be everywhere, by the way, the company that made it and... made a grand opening out of it, it is on its website, actually here is this figure , well, in the virtual, the virtual appearance of this figure, she showed in different places, they said, look, here she is on the walk of fame, here yes, here yes, you can put in your cities, and you know, i saw comments, women who had already buried their sons, and they said that such monuments should stand everywhere, on the other side there were comments that this cannot be considered a memory. on the other hand, there were comments that such monuments should stand, because they will remind all those who want to distance themselves from the war, that the war continues, in a word, we need to deal with all this somehow, well, i would like to in fact, to hear what the impressions of this monument are,

let me call it that from pavel himself, mr. pavle, well, let me try to talk about the impressions and the memorialization a little so briefly, but... try to outline the main fragments of ethics: well, first of all sculpture or some sort of memorial, they have to be metaphorical, when we talk about hyperrealistic art and so on, it 's quite commercial in the world now, and hyperrealistic art is collected in commercial museums, like madame chuso's museum and so on, it's considered attraction, it is considered that which is easy easy access'. it is the material for, let's say, from the general public, and it is not a tradition, memorialization monuments in the world, but rather it is not a tradition, rather an exception, why this case in kyiv became quite shocking

for an audience that is used to a metaphor, that is used to some kind of symbol, sign, and so on. when we talk about a single standard of memorialization, it does not exist, each country, depending on its... on the degree of its development, on the degree of talent, let's say, sculptors, artists, architects, thinkers, it chooses its format , of course, i personally am not in favor of the format of continuing the soviet line of installing bronze or python sculptures, i am in favor of memorialization, which is connected with the development of society, this discovery. let's say yes, schools, a-a, medical centers, libraries , squares, a-a, parks and so on, which would bear the name, and this discussion has repeatedly flared up, for example, in lviv, when another monument to andrei was erected to sheptytskyi, that is,

because before that there was an extremely strange situation with two monuments on zuner for a century, and accordingly, when we are talking now about... what i saw in kyiv, it really caused such a feeling in me, you know, a real shock, because on the one hand it is not accepted, it is possible innovatively, but on the other hand this is a continuation of such a line and this commercialism, as far as i know, now in lviv and in kyiv, museums of such wax figures have already been created, which are such very commercial centers, so... er, this can be considered to some extent even as advertising, that is, the figure of matsievsky can be considered a kind of advertising move, actually this is from the website of that company, i will not name them specifically, because they probably wanted to be mentioned, here they are, they kind of visualize it all and offer and

say what we can produce, show like that, well, okay, you want to ask if i could accept that, probably in context. some kind of exhibition project could be accepted in the context of memorialization in the city, it causes a great repulsion in me, and i cannot do anything with it, i was brought up in the traditions of modernism. zum, postmodernism, and it 's, well, it's like, you know, it's an imitation of life, an imitation of a person, here, well, it's a primitivization of society, even through these approaches, i'm not afraid of the word, so i think that it's not , it is necessary to memorialize the memory of those who died in the fight for freedom, in the fight for our state, and in general the topic of... memorials, i want to raise it now next year as part of the program of the lviv

sculpture week, because this topic is becoming more acute every day. people also talked about the fact that my mother gave permission, first of all, it is a people's war, the people should decide which monuments they like. well, my friends, we do not know under what conditions, well, mother, a person who would be grateful for any. mention, for any, let's say so, for any memorial and so on, but we we don't know to what extent, matsievsky 's mother understands precisely the concept of, let's say, modern memorialization, here the question is not to enlist the support of relatives, and not at all to make people like it, you know, but people like it, society in general has a fairly low aesthetic taste, low. ethical training for public space, if people like it, then we can simply turn our space

into attractions, people like this, people like this fair, while public space, on the contrary, should operate more complex, more metaphorical, more artistic things that should attract society, and not, on the contrary, approach public requests. when we talk about who is responsible, i believe that only professional commissions should be created. of philosophers, artists, art critics , architects, urban planners, who at professional round tables really choose the best solution, or discuss it, or approve it, it is impossible to consider public space, urban public space as a representation of everything without rules, only desire, only money, only permission. for example, relatives, therefore, because this war, it should after all rebirth our society

not only in terms of the fact that we finally felt that we are ukrainians, that we are radically different from our neighbors, so much so that we can stand on both sides sides of the front line, we also have to understand that our environment, public environment, our art, our approaches, they should also be reborn and become... closer to some european, world standards, and we definitely should not cluttering up space with things that are thoughtless, and sometimes cause serious comments from professionals, in particular from professionals, i say once again, i am not aware, whether this is temporary, let's say this, this is a memorable event, or whether it is on a permanent basis will be exhibited, but as for me, eh... all this should really go through a professional professional understanding, through

a filter of ethics and through an understanding of how we see public space and memorialization in it in the future. cemeteries are a public space, because even if you go by bike the cemetery, you can see the graves there , i don't know if they are famous people, but they are so pretty, these graves... are designed very realistically, these people can stand there, who are buried full height, this is not a fictional cemetery, this is a different cemetery, but this too , you see, someone decided to memorialize their loved ones in this way, huh, well, i think that these photos say a lot, these guys who are sitting there are also expressive and you can see in the clothes they are sitting there, jackets, there are some three the stripes of the sports jacket are visible. that's it. this is a very, very important question. i will tell you you are doing something that i have been wanting

to talk about for a long time and i am talking to professionals. the fact is that we need to deal with another public space. also, this is the space of our cemeteries, this is a very difficult question. in my opinion, cemeteries are the litmus test for the development of society. if we go to the lychakiv cemetery in lviv, and we will see how they buried ours, ours or not ours, because... there were many different peoples and eras and ancestors here, but i can definitely say that it must be certain system, and once upon a time e such... trexler founded a commission, it was in the 20s, a commission that precisely monitored the quality of tombstones at the lychakiv cemetery, and it seems to me that in most cases, the public space of cemeteries is considered an extension of their taste space, and indeed a lot kitsch, but here the question

is not only kitsch, when i remember we buried serhiy yakutovych in the fairy-tale cemetery, so... there was a great density of burials that it was almost impossible to squeeze through a string and bury him to the grave where his father lies, i.e. it looked like at the same time as some kind of urbanism and the horror of disrespect for those who have already left this world, so it seems to me that the future lies in thinking through such complex issues, including thinking about the issue of cemeteries as certain places. real parks with their own rules, their own formats, with their own, in my opinion, very important artistic solutions that honestly correspond to today. again, now i imagine that there are spectators sitting somewhere who, for example, do not agree with you, they say that we are a democratic country, firstly, and secondly,

i'm hiding my loved one, that's why i want to know, i, i want to decide which memory. this is especially true if a person is from a family of kerps, for example, then they say, well , what’s the matter, they had money, they had the opportunity and they put what we put on a bike, and you don’t envy us, and in general it’s classic, classical art, a column , an ancient statue , george the victorious, what else do you lack, a person died, so to speak, for ukraine, well, but what do you want, this is exactly the litmus test, that is, here you go. time discrepancy but you know everyone is from the 90s, yes, the 90s, they honestly show how they hid in the 90s and so on, but we can't dwell on the 90s, we can't dwell on that bad taste, we need to give new concepts , new approaches, and when the same thing happens

today that happened there 30 years ago, 20 years ago, well, for example, the young generation of people... with whom i constantly conduct dialogues, cooperate professionally, they are generally, let's say, in shock from moreover, they do not understand how it was possible for the older generations to be so inattentive and there is so much disrespect to those dead and even to those who come to this cemetery, i want in the same way that we are not ashamed of those topics, those topics that make sense to raise, and when we hear from people, i want that ... her relatives and so on, of course, these are their relatives, but perhaps these people lack a certain educational component, informational component, no one spoke with them on this topic, it is possible to convince much easier than it seems to us, and thus the creation memorial parks, for example, where there are such, you know, progressive approaches to landscape architecture, there are progressive approaches to artistic

solutions, sculpture, by the way, where sculpture plays, sculpture, volumetric and spatial solutions. architecture plays a big role, and in my opinion, there are very good examples in the world, why we always have to have such a slum-like approach to memorializing our dead in cemeteries, why we always stand on the positions of the past, sometimes this word is classic, classic, yes , my friends, a classic in the 20th century has already become modernism has become a classic, in the 21st century this concept has been reinterpreted in general, it makes sense to us just honestly answer the question whether we are at a very low level of aesthetics, knowledge of ethics, laws, spatial solution, whether we are ready to develop in that direction, or whether we

will remain a country of the third and fourth world and will cause a. .. we will call it the surprise of our world partners, when they will actually come to the cemetery or will be brought to the memorials, which sometimes really already exist, well, we have to understand, there are burials, there are military burials, they are happening and now everywhere, because very many people died in the war, but contests, a certain respect for those who are buried there should happen through participation. professionals, i have already said 300 times, professionals, professional architects, if there are none in that town and so on, invite a professional from other cities of ukraine, where there is a normal school, and everyone will be happy... er, they will help you solve the problem, and this bush and this kitsch, which will be associated with the state of society in

the 23rd, tentatively there or 24th year, this is undesirable, it means that you and i are really not grown up, not grown up to understand that loss, that sacrifice and that trace that we have to leave for our descendants, that's why memorialization through parks. memorialization through ah-ah such very modest, dignified , planted out of time, burials of our soldiers, then the urban space, as well as squares, metaphorical sculpture, and the creation of some, as i said, new institutions that would allow the names of those people, not just in bronze or stone, yes, in the future. in education, in treatment, so that these names are in the names of the streets, so that these names are fixed at the level spiritual, you know, you say that you will invite

a professional, but many people write about the fact that the person who performed this figure in silicone is oleksandr matsievsky, some such, oleg tsos, that he is a very professional person in the cinema, often behind him... and he very professionally executed this figure of oleksandr matsievsky to a hundred percent resemblance. well, we talked about it, this is liu, well , a professional, uh, from the cinema, who knows how to make wax figures there or silicone figures, it's one thing, but the urban space, which operates on metaphors, is another, it's already sculptors, landscape architects and so on. i mean , that's part of the attraction, when people come up and say, oh my god, it's like, yes , it's an entertainment product, it's not something that promotes

thinking, finding some interesting preconceived idea and so on, i think so, it has place to be, but whether in public space, this is a question for me, i don't know, for me, i just look at all this and think about what a person, she gave. everything, she gave life to the phrase that we witnessed, random, enough, and actually what you say that this is, in fact, we see , the commercialization of this moment took place, i don't know, it's just some kind of vileness, doesn't society understand how immoral this silicone monument is, it's simply immoral, first of all, not only here there are ethics and... ethics, but, but violations in both, in both fields, but i wonder, apart from society, are there now professionals who have already written

analytical articles on this topic, or apart from you, many channels have thought about , as it is a complex example of what can be imitated now and the transformation of our memorial memory into such a common really commercial gesture, that is, when we... talk about ethics, we understand that the main thing is the elites, who should not be silent, they should generate ideas, they should give solutions, and i say again, when i see the first and the first signs that we are moving in the wrong direction, with the help of art projects, with the help of some interviews, with the help of some posts, i really understand that i want to raise a certain certain question, for example, when we talk about sculpture week and sculpture with confidence. and vasyl korchuvy , look at the wave of rejection this fairly light sculpture raised in society. you have another question regarding whether society,

unfortunately, we don't have more time to talk, mr. pavle, but thank you, that's right. pavlo gudimov, ukrainian gallerist, curator and founder of arcentr i galireya, was in touch with us, stay with us, we still have one more hour of marathon ahead of us, we will talk about poland, which finally has a new prime minister and also about open god i wanted to say about payments, declarations, that will be discussed later. attention, incredible novelty from unpack tv. super warm and very comfortable alaska style boots, perfect fit, water-repellent material and a feeling of warmth even in 30-degree frost. alaska stayle boots have a versatile design and practical black color, so they will suit both men and women. the dimensions are clear. to the 46th, so take two pairs at once, for you and your husband, eternal zippers will ensure a perfect fit even on the widest leg. ecofro insulation is excellent

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