he was, that is, everyone changes, everyone changes absolutely , we will do everything we need to win, but for today there is no such question, thank you, well, merov is definitely not the fifth, if not the 10th, well, thank you, who were with us, goodbye until tomorrow, then the verdict, let's watch together. glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health. for the next two hours, we will talk about ukraine, the world, the war, and our victory. today in the program. they were the target of a hacker attack, a failure

in the kyiv star network, what actually happened to the largest communications operator in ukraine. defense or offensive, the usa and ukraine are developing a new military strategy, is it really so and what does it entail? and hungary is still against it. orban is blocking the movement of ukraine to the eu because of putin, and how to find a compromise on the eve of the historic summit. we will talk about this and other things during the next hour with our guests roman bezsmertny and volodymyr ogrysk. in the second part of our programme, which will start after the bbc news release. in we will be people's deputies of ukraine, oksana savchuk, kyryna gerashchenko and oleksiy kucherenko. however, before starting our big conversation, let's watch a video of how the armed forces of ukraine planted a flag over one of the terekons within the occupied territory. livky,

the city has been occupied since 2014. according to president zelenskyi, the assault group of the 24th separate mechanized royal brigade named after king danylo retook terekon and captured enemy positions. let's watch the video. ground troops of ukraine. behind us is nasa, ukrainian horlivka. us - donetsk. donbas - this is ukraine. we will definitely... win, glory to the armed forces, glory to ukraine, thank you, have a good time, soon it will be over gorlika. friends, for those who are currently watching us live on youtube and facebook, please like our video and also subscribe to our pages on these platforms. in addition , you can take part in our voting. today we ask you about the following. do you trust the local government? yes no. everything is quite simple in youtube: two options:

you vote: if you are sitting in front of the tv and have a phone or smartphone in your hands, call 0800 211 381 if you trust your local authority or 0800 211 382 if you don't, all calls to these numbers are free. we have a politician, diplomat, extraordinary plenipotentiary ambassador of ukraine in the republic of belarus in 2010-11 . roman bezsmertny. mr. roman, i welcome you and thank you for joining our program today. good evening. quite a dramatic day today was with communications, in particular with kyivstar. in the morning, there was a large-scale failure in the work of the mobile operator communication kyivstar. and the general director of the mobile operator, oleksandr komarov , said that the terms of resumption of the operator's services are not clear, and the security service of ukraine has opened an investigation into the matter. regarding

the cyber attack on kyivstar, there is a suspicion of the involvement of the special services of the russian federation. let's listen to what mr. komarov said. the war with russia has many dimensions, and one of them is in cyberspace. we are working to eliminate the consequences of this attack in order to restore communication as soon as possible. to find out the circumstances and consequences of illegal actions, interference in the activity of the network, we involved representatives of law enforcement agencies and special government agencies. services kyivstar will definitely provide compensation to subscribers who did not have a connection or could not use the operator's services. we apologize to subscribers for the temporary inconvenience and thank you for your understanding and support. mr. roman, what are the dangers of this cyber attack for ukrainians and for ukraine, apart from the lack of communication? well, the fact is that it is one of the global, continental, regional... local,

national problems, rank them however you like, but the topic of communication, the topic of modern technologies, information protection, access. to information and so on, this is the number one problem, and its peculiarity is that it is not properly regulated today , neither in the legal nor in the technological content, and the reasons are that when modern communication technologies, information technologies developed , then they were protected from the interference of law enforcement agencies, the state, then... a problem arose with the protection and accessibility of information about each citizen, now a critical situation has arisen, and from the point of view of the paralysis of not only communication systems, technological systems, i am not talking

about the use of information, it is not by chance, even at the last two un general assemblies, but the question is... not in every in the third speech at the september meetings , the need to settle the issue, and not so much from the point of view of ensuring of the technological process that we are talking about... today, how much use of information about people, and regarding the impact on technological processes, the fact is that today, in fact, the electronic communication system allows access to almost all networks that are used

citizens, and the electricity network, and the heating network, and the transport network, the aviation network, and so on, and... and i am not talking about the fact that the use of communication systems for elementary robbery of citizens, debiting funds from bank cards, from the account, and fake ones issuing loans to fake persons, lending to individuals based on stolen personal information, and so on, that is, it is such a tangle of problems that you have to sit on. to painstakingly analyze, adopt the necessary laws, regulatory acts, which would on the one hand ensure consumer access, on the other hand protect information, and on the other hand ensure the safety of both the citizen and the state,

i am not talking about state bodies, because this is one of the key problems , which remained, which is, and for now talk about guaranteed. one hundred percent protection, including in the field of services, which i just said, well, it is not proven, well, that is, we can say that an attack on a mobile operator is equivalent to an attack on infrastructure, on vital infrastructure, because we use smartphones and pay with cards, smartphones we open cards at atms, well, that is, very, very many functions that are... linked to the card number and these card numbers of the cards of this operator did not work today, and accordingly people were simply without food, they could not to buy, they could not pay for the fare there if they traveled by public transport or a taxi, and a lot of different problems

arise precisely from identification through a mobile operator, well, that is, we can say that this was precisely one of the most important points and she was hit, why do you think, after two years of a great war, why were we still unable to create a system that would ensure this, or were we simply defenseless in this situation, because they are fighting against us in cyberspace just like in real space, well, i don't know if viewers, our listeners remember how 3 years ago, and hackers attacked the colonial pipeline of the united... states of america, and only because of the paid amount of 6 million dollars, the hackers managed to restore control of this system, and this pipeline actually provides the entire

western the coast of the united states of america, and oil products, let's say so, and the fact is that from a technological point of view, it must be done. 24 hours, being under constant control, testing the system, and it is obvious that this is necessary rebuild, build up. no technological cycles, work, train specialists, and guarantee 100% that today, with knowledge, experience, understanding of the situation, including a hacker, this can be ensured 100%, well, this is somewhat exaggerating the probability, hence from the very beginning it is necessary to understand that it is the object of a key attack, and its vulnerability will increase. the fact is that everyone understands very well, well , those who are familiar with communication systems

understand very well that, especially in conditions of political tension or warfare or hostilities, it becomes the object of a key attack, because communication is everything, in fact , today, communication is everything, it provides virtually every minute of a person's life, in whatever position, wherever he is... was not, so it is unlikely, let’s say so, that it is possible to finally solve this issue, because similar things happened to big monsters of the banking system, and the transport system, the aviation system, and so on, but it is necessary to work on it and start here, and from my a point of view is needed both from a small and from a large one, that is, we are talking about the global as well settlement of these issues, because there is no in-between. national acts that would control and describe this sphere, regulate it, i

'm not saying continental ones, more precisely, as there is a lack of not only normative, but also technological documents that would ensure the activity of this sphere, so here we can talk about the fact that 100% can be ensured, well, this is somewhat exaggerating the possibility, and in the meantime it became known that the sbu is investigating the fact of a cyber attack on kyiv. star. the proceedings are being investigated immediately under eight articles of the criminal code, including sabotage, treason and encroachment on the territorial integrity and inviolability of ukraine. gur has already announced that he attacked the russian tax office, as if the tax office in russia went down for a certain period, that is, the servers went down. the war continues in all spheres, including, you see, in cyberspace. also, mr. roman, what i wanted to ask about. because the bbc published an interview with the secretary

of the bezu council and defense of ukraine oleksiy danilov, he said that ukraine's hopes for a counteroffensive did not come true, he said that i will quote him: people sometimes make mistakes, you cannot be excellent all your life, this does not mean that victory will not be on our side, the fact that we have been defending our country for two years is already a great victory, the current situation at the front he... characterized as very difficult and stated that the old military textbooks, in particular the nato textbooks, must be sent back to the archives, it should be sent back to the archives for a certain period, there for two or three months we saw similar conclusions in the western press, and in kyiv they reacted to it painfully and as if that something was being transmitted western journalists and western experts, well, now it turns out that in reality there is no hope for a counteroffensive... you excused yourself , does this prove, mr. roman, that the current ukrainian authorities must still learn

to speak the truth to the ukrainian people and convey this the truth on their platforms, on the same telethon, because what danilo said does not correspond at all to what has been said over the past six months about the situation at the front, about how it will all unfold. well, mr. serhiu, the general connotation of this... ah interview, she is calm enough, i immediately , when i met him, realized that this fragment, which you just quoted, will attract attention to himself, because it smacks somewhat of vulgarity, especially the thesis about textbooks that should be thrown away and so further, for example, i read with pleasure, starting with sunza, ending there with a candle, trandefilov, well, i’m not talking about a... many contemporaries who develop strategy, tactics of warfare, because, well,

it must be done with from the point of view of knowledge as such, from the point of view of, say, the discussion that on today is being conducted, it is necessary to clearly understand that the textbook, forgive me for such vulgarity, it says that war is the art of lies, that is why we need this thesis. it must always be understood, because it is very important in the conditions of war, and what is sometimes made public , sometimes said, must be treated calmly, also because... we do not know the purpose of each message, each thesis that is periodically voiced, and regarding the extent to which society should be consecrated, you are absolutely right here, because what is the problem, y we still have a misunderstanding of the fact that ukraine is being built as a democratic state,

a democratic state, its tools, mechanisms of action, mutually. and the state system , official and society, they are completely different, and here we are, where sometimes this salty bear wakes up and such failures occur, these failures give rise to a completely different interpretation, your truth is that the information support of the process that we called a counterattack, but from the point of view of conveying to society what it is? why is it called so, its up to today day they were not able to, because in fact, in fact , if we talk about the result, then the situation from the beginning of the talks to the current state, it has not worsened, it is improving, yes, it is necessary to clearly understand and tell the society that it is not necessary to be a dreamer and think, that at the command

of a magic wand, this problem will be solved, this is a war, this is... a complex mechanism, this is the interaction of political, military, military, components that need time, need corresponding resource provision, need appropriate policy, this is crazy, huge work, and when from the beginning they announced that tomorrow we will reach moscow, forgive me for this slang, it is clear that they gave hope, it is clear that the real progress. actions, it is not as fantastic or phantasmagorical as it was talked about from the beginning, and this gave rise to a number of theses, i am not talking about the fact that for some reason a lot of pessimism intervened here, which was brought in as one of the informational options for the service of the western press, western analytical centers and so on, in principle i

cannot understand the current and pessimistic one and... such a decadent mood, from my point of view, it is caused by the absolute lack of reliable information that would reach the society, and do we take this issue there in interaction with our partners and allies, who clearly said what we will do first, second, third, they will carry it out, so there will always be problems, there will always be discussions, but these things will be carried out, from here... well , you can say that there is a late reaction or information that the secretary can convey to society national security and defense council oleksiy danilov, it was actually appropriate in the spring of this year, when it was necessary to explain to people that a counteroffensive is not only an attack, it also includes the manifestation of defensive

battles, it is exhausting the enemy, because it was clear that we are not starting a war from scratch sheet, well... they didn't finalize it, today we have to say similar things, and similar things, but they should not be said in such a way as to drive a wedge between the ukrainian leadership, the western ones, between military analysts , ukrainian westerners, here we need to find answers to the questions, because if only to raise questions and throw them out into the air, then you will not ensure victory that way. in fact, from the point of view of the discussion that... was conducted, is being conducted and will be conducted, even from the point of view of the ideology of the counteroffensive, i do not want to get involved now in lecturing about the fact that i had to study all this, and these are actually the gaps that are not informationally were provided for almost nine months, they gave birth to this decadent, forgive me for

bringing this term of art into a political sound, because when do you hear such things. there or from the supreme hall councils or government bodies, well , i just want to say, dear, i am very begging you, read these things, the fundamental things that are related to information service, including such political, military, military operations and steps, you said about what is possible by - both ukrainian... and western experts and participants of this process, let's say, a big process, which is called the war of russia against ukraine and the defense of ukraine, have different views on the war taking place in ukraine, the new york times published. in the article that ukraine and the united states the states of america are currently arguing about the strategy for 2024, how the war should be conducted,

what the publication writes, the pentagon decided to send to kyiv the american general antonio agut jr., who oversees and manages the support of ukraine from germany, he will work with the military leadership of ukraine on the ground . according to the new york times, the americans insist on a defense strategy that is based on maintaining territory, as well as increasing reserves and forces throughout the year. ukraine wants to attack more , either by ground means or with help long shots well, again, we see that the information was leaked to the new york times, and obviously the new york times is writing what is going on behind the scenes, behind the scenes of this great process. what is going on in the understanding of the ukrainian leadership, i still don’t know, i don’t know, i only know that the bezugla

requires a plan and strategy for 2024 from the hard worker, you can say whether you can believe the new york times or not again will demand some kind of plan from the industrious bezul, mr. serhiy, this is how it starts for us good and correct conversation. and in the right key. new york times, telegram, economist should write what they consider necessary. there are different views, there are different approaches, theoretical, practical and so on. ah, they are filling the information space, in some things, i am even happy that some analytical centers even outline the schemes of military operations. the more the merrier...it's another matter that the officials concerned have to make decisions that concern both tactics and

strategy, no one will ever and nowhere tell all this, lay it out on maps and show it, it is a matter of direct management of the situation, which consists of strategic and tactical decisions, here it is important to understand that the flight ... politicians, who should understand something about strategy, did not interfere in the operational management of the situation, but ensured the solution of one issue, the setting of a goal, which, by the way, they have not formulated to this day, and it is not formed precisely, as in in the kyiv offices , the upper ones, washington, brussels , whatever... as for the enemy, he formulated it absolutely clearly: to destroy ukraine as a state, to destroy a ukrainian as a representative of an ethnic group,

one of the ethnic groups that carries a democratic , the civilized world. and, therefore, it is very important that everyone does their work, and in order to do this work professionally, you actually have to read the new york times and the washington post. telegraph, economist, there are analytical centers, they write about all this, and if you want to understand more deeply, please take the textbooks, and the relevant materials, which were written by masters of military art and military strategies, you know, sometimes i hear individual deputies who think, think about... appropriate tactics or strategy, and i hear that they do not distinguish between the concepts of military tactics and military tactics or military strategy and military strategy, i understand very well that

they are trying to invade a sphere where they do not understand elementary things, and it is very important that the fathers are people who want figure it out, so that they get to know each other , including materials from the new york times. and so on, so that they do these things for themselves and at least at the level of general knowledge possess this terminology, and the fact that each newspaper can write its version, can write its vision, thank god, this will only confuse the enemy, it will prove he is feverish about what the ukrainians will do next. another thing is to make a decision, and for this, in order for appropriate decisions to be made, the supreme commander-in-chief, whose competence is written out, there is a commander-in-chief, whose competence is written out, there is a chief of the general staff,

competence. which are written out are the heads of commanding corps, brigades and so on , the competence, functional duties of which are written out, and i want to say one thing that is very important, because it sounds in all the textbooks, in all the works that i had the chance to get acquainted with. strategy at the level of general things should be understood by everyone, both politicians and military, there is no need to create a caste, a strategy. it is very important to understand because if a person got to the high levels of the government, the parliament, he should understand these things at least at the level of terminology, and when i see that they start talking about such things, at the level of terminology i am mistaken for wandering, i understand very well that they are just filling information space, so it is very important to understand this topic, at least in general terms. thank you sir. roman,

it was politician and diplomat roman immortal, and we, friends, continue to work live on the tv channel, and work on our platforms on youtube and facebook, for those who now watching us on youtube please like our video and vote in our poll today we are asking you if you trust your local government and we are also running this poll over the phone lines if you are sitting in front of the tv take please print your phone or smartphone and vote well 800-21381, if you trust, 0800-211-382, if you don't trust, all calls to these numbers are free. next, we have our colleague tetyana vysotska from strasbourg. tatiana, i, i congratulate you and am glad to see you in ours ether congratulations serhiy, we are very happy to see you. so, another session of the european parliament is underway in strasbourg. tomorrow

meps will listen. to the president of the european commission, ursula fonlein, who will report on the positions of the european union at the summit of the leaders of the european union on december 14-15, at this summit it will be decided whether to start the negotiation process with the ukrainian state or not, we know that with a separate opinion, a large separate opinion there is viktor orbán, the prime minister of hungary, apparently there are already some issues with slovakia. removed, because today the minister of foreign affairs of slovakia said that we are not against ukraine being a member of the european union, what is being said on the sidelines of the european parliament about orban's position, because it is clear that a lot will depend on orban's position, well, after all, orban is not only the problem of ukraine, it is the problem of the european union. yes, despite the fact that on

the agenda of the european parliament... the issue of the summit of eu leaders on december 14-15 is scheduled for tomorrow morning, of course, european deputies have already started discussing this event starting from monday, first on the sidelines , and today the discussion also started in the session hall, when the european commissioners lera yureva and dubravka shuys addressed the deputies, who presented, by the way, an interesting package on the protection of democracy, this is... a new directive of the european commission, which in particular, it will aim to combat the influence of the russian federation on european politics and european elections. and therefore, when viera yurova and dubravka shuytsia began to present this program, the european deputies began to put question: what is the european union going to the summit with, and how does the european commission plan to calm down and somehow change

the opinion. hungarian leader orban. and here we have two news. the first news is that the european commission and the leaders of the european union, its largest states , friends of ukraine, still adopted a strategy of appeasement, appeasement of orban, more on that later, and the second news is actually that so far officially i did not see ukrainian agencies in our news feeds, this is what the european commission has already officially communicated. the package regarding proposals for the use of russian frozen assets for the benefit of ukraine to finance the ukrainian economy, that is, it is already official news, this package exists, it has been submitted to the secretariat of the european council and will be considered by eu leaders on thursday-friday, actually.