ether, do not switch, it will be interesting later. in poland, the new prime minister is already official, what does this mean and what consequences will the polish political changes have for ukraine. let's try to figure it out in the next half hour, this is a special edition of bbc ukraine in the studio. now officially, after taking the oath of his cabinet, donald tusk headed the polish government and immediately left for brussels, where the eu summit will begin tomorrow. it is planned that he will meet with volodymyr zelensky there. on expectations from the new government in kyiv and in brussels, we speak with bbc correspondents svyatoslav khomenko and hryhoriy zhigalov. in

poland, after the eight-year rule of the conservative party law and justice , a new period has begun, a period of political common sense, this is how the strategy used by the new prime minister to come to power in poland is described. donald tusk, who is he and why is his appointment a good signal for ukraine? well, let's start with the fact that donald tusk has been in politics for a long time, he was already the prime minister. of poland, and also held the position of chairman of the european council, he even were predicted to run for the presidency of poland, but he, to everyone's surprise, remained in brussels, only in 2021 he announced that he was returning to polish politics, and not just returning, but intending to remove pis from power. such ambitions paid off in october this year, when donald tusk, the leader of the opposition, won the election and immediately announced the beginning of a new era for poland.

the new prime minister took the official oath today in the presidential palace and we will listen to what he said. i know, i will know until the end of my life, that when it comes to the homeland, everyone's freedom of us and human rights, poles never capitulate, never give up, even when the situation seems hopeless. my government, mr. president, will remain true to the provisions of the constitution. we will obey all the laws of the republic of poland, our largest. in the context of the event, in order to better understand polish politics, it is worth mentioning that today's appointment of tusk could actually fail, because the day before there was a scandal in the polish diet. deputy of the polish far-right confederation party grzegorz braun extinguished the hanukkah menorah with a fire extinguisher. in seyms were just taking place. brown demonstratively

sprayed a powder fire extinguisher and extinguished the candles, for which he was expelled from the meeting. can't give up, but why is tusk here? because of the incident, the sejm suspended its work, and therefore the official swearing-in of the new government headed by the newly elected prime minister could fail, tusk himself could not have time to go to the eu summit, which is critical for poland and ukraine. however, everything was successful. well, let's talk about everything in more detail with me. colleague sviatoslav khomenko, who covered the topic of polish people, joins elections for the bbc and closely followed the program statements of the new prime minister of poland, congratulations, slava, before talking about what changes should be expected in poland-ukraine relations, a few words about why it took so long to form a new government , almost two months since the elections in poland were held on october 15. the answer to this question is not as simple as it might seem, first of all, this pause. absolutely in accordance with the constitution

and the laws of poland, the constitution of poland does give the president of this country a whole month after the election to set a date the first session of the newly elected parliament, and then another two weeks for him to entrust the formation of the government to any candidate for prime minister whom he chooses. and then pure politics begins, despite the fact that the coalition in support of donald tusk as part of his party of the civic platform, the left and the third way bloc had the majority of votes, and this was clear from the first day after. elections, president andrzej dudov gave two weeks to form a government to his fellow party mateusz morawiecki, who was polish prime minister until the day before yesterday. it is difficult to say how realistic the hopes of law and justice were that they would be able to lure or convince someone to join the coalition under their leadership, but for the past two weeks they have formally tried to do this. supporters of tusk see additional meaning in this delay. they believe that in these two months. these representatives of the former government,

which was distrusted by millions of poles during the elections, tried to cover their tracks of his abuses, to appoint his confidants to some important positions, and we can say that... to do even more harm before his transition to the opposition, and it is worth saying that tusk is one of those politicians who, as early as 2014 , events in ukraine they called it a war, but what the new prime minister is saying about ukraine now, i suggest you listen. i can no longer hear how some european politicians from other western countries say that they are tired of the situation in ukraine, they are tired, they. says this to the face of president zelensky, that they do not have forces that have already been exhausted, i want to say that it is the task of poland, the task of the new government and the task of all of us to loudly and decisively demand from the entire western community full determination in supporting ukraine in this

war. i will do this from day one. we heard from donald tusk, svyatoslav, what changes do you think should be expected in the relations between warsaw and kyiv in the near future? of course, forecasts here are extremely ungrateful, but i will try to cautiously assume that relations between ukraine and poland under the new the polish authorities will become more equal, calmer, that is, perhaps there will be less loud declarations of friendship to the tombstone, some loud declarations that are not filled with real meaning, or touching photos. but there will also be fewer completely wild situations like blocking by polish entrepreneurs of entire industries that are strategically important for ukraine, which is currently suffering from the war with russia. probably, poland will act less independently, it will coordinate its policy towards ukraine more with, conditionally speaking, a collective measure, but it should

expect that it will set the tone for this policy. donald tusk and poland will become a kind of lawyers, experts on ukrainian issues, if it is about the european union. nato, the west in general, in the fact that donald tusk is a friend of ukraine, that he sincerely wishes it victory in the war that russia has unleashed against it, that he strives in every way for ukraine to become a member of the eu and nato, well , i think we have no doubts. yes , glory, you noticed in a very timely manner about the blocking, that is, at the beginning of the full-scale war of russia against ukraine, poland was also remains one of the largest partners of ukraine, although yes, everything is smooth in the country's relations, and here i mean precisely the blocking of the polish border. carriers, what is tusk's position on this? short answer, we don't know, but tusk has promised to find out. in fact, during yesterday's program speech in the polish parliament, tusk mentioned this problem, mentioned it several times, according to him , the policy of the previous polish government regarding this

problem was absolutely unacceptable, because it, the polish government, was actually the previous removed myself from this problem. tusk stated that even before the members of his government were baked, they spent midnight together with the then future, now current prime minister, in order to find a solution to this problem, which would, on the one hand, unblock the logistics of vital goods for ukraine, which is suffering from the war, and on the other hand, it would take into account the interests of polish carriers, who ultimately have some interests in blocking these border crossings, according to the words here... such a solution was found and will be implemented immediately after his government takes office. we don't know the details yet, but formally tusk's government started full-fledged work today, so there is every reason to believe that in the very near future we will see what exactly tusk's team has worked on. yes, but who are these

members of the government, who are these new ministers, what do you know about them? the new polish government is already being called a patchwork government, it includes old and new faces. radicals and supporters of moderate steps, right-wing and left-wing politicians, therefore evil tongues in poland and beyond, they predict that soon this government will drown in some internal strife, and the poles should not relax, because early parliamentary elections are just around the corner. on the other hand, the members of tusk's government are currently united by the desire to eliminate the controversial, let's say, the consequences of eight years of the rule of the government of law and justice, during which , as many western and polish observers believe, there has been a clear departure from the standards of democracy in poland, and therefore , at least until the presidential elections, which are scheduled for 2025, coalition members and, accordingly , government officials are simply doomed to cooperation. we can talk about the members of tusk's government for a very long time, we will probably be interested, in addition to the prime minister himself, in the persons of those ministers who

, according to their positions and duties , will probably intersect with the ukrainian issue more often, i mean the minister of defense and minister abroad. affairs vladyslav kosinyak kamysh is the minister of defense and currently the first vice prime minister in tusk's government. this is a purely political appointment, this is the head of the polish peasant association party, he is a doctor by education, he is well acquainted with donald tusk, he was part of the previous government, he was the minister of labor and social policy there, now he has received the portfolio of the ministry of defense, according to tusk, in order to ensure an effective civilian control of one of the largest, most numerous armed forces on the european continent. moreover , polish observers assume that in the conditions of the conflict they predict between the tusk government and the supreme commander-in-chief, president andrzej duda, it is kosiniak kamysh, as such a moderate politician. who has never been distinguished by any radical statements, will be such a communicator, a mediator between these two centers of power,

instead, the minister of foreign affairs, radoslav sikorski, is the most experienced member of tusk's government, he was also part of tusk's previous government, he was also the minister of foreign affairs in it, it is believed that he and his swedish colleague karl bilt were the creators of the format of the eastern partnership, this is a format of cooperation that significantly brought closer ukraine to the european union in 2004. tusk, sikorsky, together with other western diplomats , participated in negotiations with the president of ukraine viktor yanukovych in the last days of the euromaidan, but their results could not be implemented because the former president of ukraine simply fled the country. today, radyslav sikorsky is a convinced supporter of ukraine's membership in the eu and nato and says that it will lead to the formation of a new axis of power in europe, paris, berlin, vartava, kyiv. and that's absolutely. corresponds to poland's national interests and interests the entire european continent. so.

well, let's follow the situation in the government, in the polish government, as well as the new ministers. slava, stay in touch with us, we still have a lot to talk about with you, and i want to add, if you are interested in this topic, i highly recommend reading the article on our website bbc.ua, it describes in detail how donald tusk again became the prime minister of poland bbc. i highly recommend it. well, presenting his government's program in the polish parliament, donald tusk devoted a lot of space to ukraine's support for it war against russian aggression. and this is what the bbc correspondent in warsaw, sarah rainsford, drew attention to. in this long speech in the parliament, he really talked a lot... about ukraine. in essence, he said that he is fed up with politicians in the west who say that

they are tired of their support for ukraine, that they are tired of the situation in ukraine. he said that we have no right to be tired of the war in ukraine. he said that ukraine is fighting for its democracy, fighting for its freedom, and they need full support in this he said he would make it one of his priorities. in fact, he said that ... he was going to brussels for a meeting of european leaders and that it would be on the agenda . therefore, the new prime minister of poland emphasizes unwavering support from the country. in addition to ukraine, he laid out a new vision of polish politics, and built it on the results of the elections two months ago, which saw a record voter turnout. many people voted for the change. donald tusk called them a political renewal, an awakening. he said. that election day was a day of peace uprising for democracy and freedom, so these are

the key points he emphasized in his speech before the parliament. sarah rainsford from warsaw, well, let me remind you, subscribe to our pages in social networks, so as not to miss the most important news, we are on facebook, instagram, tiktok, youtube, you can watch. our news release, if you missed it on the air, well, tomorrow, thursday, watch our half-hour special broadcast from brussels. greetings, friends, the live broadcast of the espresso tv channel continues with the verdict program, my name is serhiy orudenko, we are talking about what is happening and what will happen in ukraine and abroad. beyond its borders today in the program. ballistic strikes

on kyiv and cyber attack on kyiv star, how the russians are trying to sow panic in ukraine. zelensky's visits to the usa and norway, the search for new alliances in the fight against the russians, what threatens the west's war fatigue? historic decision on ukraine's accession to the eu. what does hungary want and how? eu leaders react to orban's statements. throughout this program, we conduct surveys. friends, we ask you this, have you had any communication problems? like today and yesterday, if there were any, then call 080021381, no 0800-211382, or vote on our youtube, everything is quite simple there, yes no, all calls to the phones, to the phone numbers that you see on the screen now, are free of charge, at the end of the program

we will sum up the results of this vote, today the guests of the verdict are political scientists andriy smoliy, volodymyr tsibulko, vitaliy kulyk, gentlemen, i congratulate you and i am glad to see you on our broadcast. glory to heroes. since gentlemen, we ask our viewers whether did they have problems with communication, i will ask you too, because in principle, we are all living people, we all use mobile operators, different ones, did you have problems with mobile communication during today and yesterday, let's start with mr. andrii. well, definitely , like most of our country, because the number one mobile internet operator in ukraine, in fact there by the number of subscribers, yesterday, let's say, i woke up, saw that there was no connection, and of course, being in the city , in fact, it was at least several hours cut off from communication, from the internet, it is very

difficult, by the way, it was yesterday to register the same electronic sim card there, so really, yesterday, specifically yesterday, the problems, most of our citizens, because we see how big, how large-scale this was hacker attack, today is of course a little better, today people already started looking for opportunities, in the same way i, together with other fellow citizens, looked for opportunities, found in order to be in touch, luckily i found them, and of course, luckily, what today in the evening... at least it appeared , the voice network appeared, at least you can call, of course, not yet to all subscribers, not in all, perhaps, cities, regions of ukraine, but gradually, gradually, thanks to our ukrainian specialists, thanks to our to the people who urgently responded, who urgently began to do everything to restore the connection, we

have it, at least for the evening partially, well, well, we are waiting there for the next few days to, in principle, restore the connection completely... fully , the internet, in each of our mobile devices, and most importantly, what i want to say here , i think, the authorities, and the relevant ministry, and mobile operators, internet operators, should think about what to do next, how to protect ourselves so that this does not happen, because i am more than convinced , racists, occupiers, terrorists, they will try to do it again and again, we have a war, and we have an enemy every day. as they say, he invents new and new methods, we will talk about this during our program, mr. andriy, very briefly, if possible, mr. volodymyr, did you have any problems with communication? i didn't have, because the damned war taught me to have all cards and a power bank at hand and several terminals at hand. thank you, mr. vitaly, did you have any problems with communication, yes

, i am probably a kyivstar card, i am its client of kyivstar. contract for a long time, and this was a problem for me, but i would not say that it is such a big inconvenience, because in kyiv wi-fi is almost everywhere, and to go from one point to another, i was almost all the time on connection, and it wasn't a big problem, so it allowed me to get out of the infademic a little bit to some extent, but i think this is a good vaccination against addiction. and gentlemen, can we consider that what happened to the mobile operator, one of the largest operators of ukraine, that it is the fault of the state authorities or the ministry of statistics, or could this situation actually have been avoided, because when we talk about mobile communication and an ordinary smartphone, we are not only talking about

e-communication with family and friends, a lot of bank cards are attached to the phone. you come without cash and think that now you will conveniently pay in a supermarket, and supermarkets are also, by the way, not so many gladly accepted electronic money, because many terminals were connected to the savings bank, and the savings bank was sitting on the mobile operator of kyiv star, sorry, could it have been avoided? this , because it is clear that during the war, the beginning of the war, i remember there were problems with the servers of various state companies, we had problems with our website, because we were being harassed day and night and... we could barely get it all out , because they tried to knock us down, now the cyber attacks, which started with kyivstar, continued on monobanks, this is obviously not the end

of this whole story, which started literally a few days ago, can the state protect us from the fact that, well, at least we may not end up there at a certain time without electronic money without... without action in the smartphone, without some things that we get used to very quickly, mr. vitaly, please, well , first of all, this is such a good hint to those initiators who tried to declare in the authorities that we need to get rid of cash, that let 's transfer everything to digital, because it they have such a nice bell and i think a lot ukrainians will think three times whether to keep all their money on cards, or still have some... part in money, and not, and not on a card, this is the first, second, it is obvious that it will not

be possible to protect oneself completely from kharkiv attacks, especially if it is conducted purposefully, and there are not enough funds specifically for this , powerful kharkiv networks that work for the fsb and are trying to collapse, so far we have tried to hold back, but from my point of view. from the story with kyivstar, it has several components, on the one hand, it is also a cyber attack from on the part of the russians, and on the other hand, we know what happened to this company, that is, the change of owner, the history of the arrival of investigative bodies, investigative actions on the matter in the company itself, an attack on the core in the company itself, which actually collapsed kyivstar and knocked it out his, that is, it must be an investigation. what was the last straw, so to speak, what actually caused such a collapse, a blow to the core, was it the kharkiv attack from the outside, or was it a sabotage from the middle, and it is connected less

with the war than with the war between the owners and those who were and who want to gain control over this company, i am also interested in this, because it can happen again, and this was not wanted, on the other hand, any kharkiv attack, it leads to the fact that the company is trying.. . so the protection so that they can no longer attack this algorithm, i hope that the banks, the bank and others have drawn conclusions, this is firstly, secondly, well, and other mobile operators have also drawn certain conclusions regarding the fact that , that there can be sabotage from the middle, well, by the way , what eight articles of the criminal code, for by which this case is being investigated, and the sbu has already named these articles, well, in particular. sabotage, high treason and encroachment on the territorial integrity and inviolability of ukraine, one of them high treason assumes that someone in ukraine betrayed ukraine, or, well, inside

the company simply created it, or sabotage, yes, that is, obviously, different versions should be considered here, and well, quite often during this entire history they mention the founders or the owners, not even the founders, the owners. kyivstar and the last name echoes there fridman, who through offshore companies had some kind of package in kyivstar, and this is connected, as vitaliy said, with the fact that there is some dispute or there are some questions from one group of people to another group of people, and one group of people proves to another to a group of people, what can happen if you take away a part or the whole company, or it can be one. from the versions of what is happening around this campaign, mr. andrii, well, the first thing we should generally understand is that

the kyivstar company, through its owner veon, which is a dutch company, is legally in the netherlands, in fact there is a really large share of up to 50%, these were owners from the occupying state, that is, citizens of the occupying state, and here of course... i would not rule out the fact that there really could be this influence. by the way, about an hour ago , the general director of the kyivstar company, mr. komarov, stated that this attack actually took place through the internal accounting room, i.e., in principle, this indicates that indeed, most likely, the sabotage could have been from the inside, and the attack could be from the outside, and if the sabotage happened from the inside, it really means that... there could be people inside this company, and we understand that this is a company with thousands of employees, and it's very difficult to verify every single employee,

and someone... certainly from these employees could theoretically be involved in this, i think that this should be one of the priority versions, as much as the general director of this company has already declared about it, this is the first question, let's talk about how the state could do this influence? well, first of all, in our country, how they say, the fact that the war, which lasts for 10 years, is actually 10 years, does not cross our minds, is not a two-year war. we had dozens, hundreds, thousands of companies that were affiliated in one way or another with the occupying state, the same kyivstar, even if it is not about, it is not about a controlling stake, it is still just a huge influence, and i the question arises, of course , how did it happen that in principle even a few months ago, kyivstar could somehow be controlled by those persons who

are related to russia. this is a very open question, and of course, if we are talking about basically other companies, yes, for 100% we cannot rule out that there will be a repetition, we have other objects, communication infrastructures, we have banks , the banking system, which has also been repeatedly attacked, we must understand, we must be ready, and the state, there, let's talk, even the government, the relevant minister, must leave. to people and clearly say that yes, in the future we can expect a similar situation in some other ways subjects that we can expect a similar situation in the banking system, and people must be ready for it, we must understand that there is a war going on in our country, and our enemy is a powerful enemy that every day, every week, every of the month, investing billions, billions and billions of bloody

rubles, is trying to... find a new way to influence our state, because we are not just at war today, it has been going on for 10 years now , hybrid war, it is an information war, it is also a media war, it is a cultural war, an economic war, and now we see that this war is actually going into the it space, into the internet space, and this also needs to be fought, and it is also necessary to talk about it. people, i think that the government , ours, the ukrainian one, should take all possible measures so that we, at least , as they say, the class, lay this cushion that could restrain, so to speak, any such radical things against ukraine that affect the daily life of our citizens, therefore, of course, we do not rule out that this is sabotage from within, we understand that

such... such sabotage, such, such, let's say, internet attacks, they can be in our country, and we definitely have to prepare and talk to people every day and speak honestly, and not tell them that everything is fine, relax , we have everything under control. thank you, mr. andriy , mr. volodymyr, i wanted to ask you, the government is constantly, well, periodically talking about the fact that... that it is necessary to come to electronic voting, either through action, or by smartphones, or somehow, well, obviously through action most of all, now this way is probable, and now we see, in principle, that's enough about a simple situation, it's not a simple situation for citizens of ukraine who have lost contact, because i have friends calling from germany, asking how their relatives are, because they can't get

to them to call, can i find out... how are they, because they are the owners of a sim card of one of the mobile operators, but in a situation where the future of the country is being discussed , including voting, can we say that here are the numbers , which we were always proud of, because the ministry of finance did a lot there over the past three or four years, and this is noticeable, and people who have gone abroad say that such an application as action and in general other services that are in our smartphones are progressive, because in other countries it simply does not exist, and people simply feel this difference, but are we ready with that uro level of informatization, or are we even ready for electronic elections, for something that, in principle, was what we were striving for even before the war...