oh, thank you, and the air temperature, as you can see, is +10°. well, i want to congratulate everyone once again, of course, on christmas, and wish ukraine peace and victory. everyone, have a good and happy holiday, and of course , i'll give you a little lullaby, of course. i got a new raga, which had not been above the nativity scene. christ is born, let's praise him, once again happy holiday to you, dear tv viewers, i'll be with you until tomorrow, goodbye, be with espresso, good evening, we are from ukraine!

greetings to all espresso viewers, thank you for being with us, thank you for the opportunity to be with you, my name is khrystyna yatskiv and it is the day before one of the biggest christian holidays, christmas. we are very honored to be here. and have the opportunity to talk with the father and head of the ukrainian greek catholic church, his beatitude svyatoslav shevchuk. greetings everyone, christ is born. let's praise him. well, your holiness, you and i finally have an opportunity to talk about the great christian holidays and not feel the time gap as much as it was before, so with... in calendars, in

dates and different readings. most christians in ukraine, in the end, is united now in one date, in one flow, of love, i hope. is this our great achievement, not only ecclesiastical, perhaps even national, that we have been able to reach this point, what steps may we still need to take in this direction? well, really, this year cut. is special, why? because we witness it together, together not only orthodox, catholics, greek catholics, but also protestant brothers, together, as believers in ukrainian society, and also together with the whole world, it is so important for us to feel unity, unity and solidarity among themselves, in particular in such difficult circumstances of war.

i can honestly say that this decision was very special, i think, both on the part of our orthodox brothers and our synod of bishops, we somehow felt that the moment had come, so theologically we call it kairos, this wave that the lord god gave us, our people, our predecessors, have been waiting for it, perhaps for centuries, we somehow felt that if we had done it a year or six months earlier, it would have been too soon, well, if six months later it would have been too late, we did it very, very quickly, and indeed, we very much wanted to feel how our people would react, our believers in ukraine, in particular, you know, the reaction was unanimous, of great joy. of all

our parishes, only one parish in ukraine asked for permission to stay on the old calendar for a while, and it is one of our communities in the kharkiv region. ugh. and so the whole church perceived it as something very natural and for which our people are grateful to the church leaders who dared to undertake this reform. therefore , thank god, we have christmas. christmas together, a christmas that is a sign of solidarity, inner unity of the ukrainian people, and long live the unity of the whole world, together with us, us with the whole world, but we cannot lose sight of the christians in ukraine who, for various reasons, i would like to emphasize, still remain faithful to the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate , of the russian orthodox church,

and we have to understand people who, again, have their own different views. motives to stay, and it is not always love for the russian federation, it is still not understanding the moments of canonicity, for example, of the orthodox church of ukraine, how so quickly tomos, it was recently, here is a century -long history, some people simply find it difficult to accept new circumstances and go against the grain, but together with the way we are in our country now, which is very polarized... in a political, social sense, we we see that two years of war have been going on, it's just difficult, and people feel it, and very often, this kind of anger is already starting to be thrown at each other, somewhere , it's more than necessary, how can we

harmoniously survive and accept all these processes, wait those christians who are still somewhere in reflection well, i might start with the first accent that you mentioned. indeed, war is a tragedy, and it marks all of us with deep trauma. perhaps, until the end , we have not yet realized to ourselves what features of our personal life and the life of our society are marked by this reality. we all feel growing pains. the first reaction to the crimes of the russian aggressor is hatred. uh, how to deal with those feelings? we have been thinking about it, talking about it since the very beginning of this

war, but we see that these problems are deepening, and today, every priest, which is trying to build. the unity of their parishes, i think, our public leaders, political figures, who feel certain trends in society, feel new lines of tension that are being built, which are not related to whether a person lives in a russian-speaking region of ukraine or a ukrainian-speaking one, or are they orthodox, are they catholics, m... new lines of tension are being built on the basis of personal experience of the tragedy of war. here we see it, let's say, uh, someone stayed put, yes, someone uh, went, uh, like an internally displaced person,

then it turns back, and the neighbors no longer understand each other. a man went to... the front, returns home, and his wife has different experiences of tragedy and war, and sometimes a man and a woman do not understand each other, those who survived the occupation and liberation, sometimes i feel that those people who live in relatively peaceful, western regions of ukraine, do not hear, do not feel that there is a war. in such circumstances, how can we still build unity, the unity of our people, how can we unite in the name of a common goal? it is like this it is quite a difficult question, we must give an answer to it together, but from such

a pastoral point of view, we already see one phenomenon that should make us think very seriously. sometimes we look for, you know, a scapegoat to hang our own pain on, and sometimes we choose it very spontaneously, yes, it could be, well, someone standing next to whom we can just take out our negative emotions, it could be some, no know, a person or an institution that did not do everything we expected it to do, or the way we imagined that she... has to do it, obviously, this is a very dangerous phenomenon, it is, on the one hand , natural, because this pain, well, it hurts us, we want to spontaneously pour it out on someone, so it is very dangerous, you know, to give in to the temptation

to devour each other, uh, to be tempted to project this negative energy of ours, even sometimes uh uh... by force ourselves, we shouldn't do that, but all together we have to understand that the trauma of war... it is a certain challenge that we have to deal with you have to give yourself advice, there are many who are engaged in analysis social processes, even deep analysts, psychotherapists, say that our success, our victory depends not only on the strength of our weapons, but on the ability of ukrainians to cope with the consequences of the trauma that... the war inflicts on all of us, that is why the role of the church, the role

of those , who is trying to be the core of the consolidation of our society, is difficult to overestimate, because our future depends on our internal ability to withstand these challenges. thank you, it may seem strange to some that i am asking... the head of the head of the ukrainian greek catholic church churches about the orthodox, about their relationship to the orthodox church of ukraine and about all these transitions, but i would very much like that in our consciousness, and in our ukrainian realities, christian churches were real, truly brothers to each other, and that we could frankly to talk about each other's processes , to share experiences, all the more so... that the ukrainian greek catholic church is very , very modern, and i am very grateful to you for this work

that is carried out daily, the understanding that the world does not stand still, and you are also ready to develop together with the world, it is incredible, it's just what people asked to convey, to be honest, but still returning to the processes of 2023, we saw the work of the verkhovna rada in an effort to, after all, ... root out the russian agency in ukraine, which is very often covered by religion, and we also have first steps in this direction. we will see how it will be in practice, because we understand that the processes there are not easy. we have certain actions regarding the great christian shrine, the kyiv-pechersk lavra, and we hope that very soon every ukrainian will feel a sincere desire to come there and... feel russian-minded soul, i'm sorry, but i'm interested

in the issue of the pochaiv lavra, for example, we understand the experience of this shrine and the ukrainian greek catholic church, a certain historical duration, how do you consider all these processes and do you hope that they will affect not only kyiv, but also saints in the west? i think that we are witnessing very interesting processes, thank you very much for the compliment about modernity, i had to do it, i think that we should not be afraid of renewal, because the church is a living organism, it is not some ossified institution that simply clings to the stereotypes of the past, such a church will always be doomed to certain crises, if the church feels like a leader of public opinion, a mother... and a teacher of its people, the soul of this people who are fighting for their freedom, it will always be

modern, that eternal always will be modernized, entered, embodied in our present, but we have a very interesting historical moment that we cannot lose: the process of decommunization and de-russification is taking place in ukraine. in different aspects of our lives, uh, i think the same process, uh, the religious environment of ukraine must also undergo decommunization and de-russification. we must be sincere, we must be frank that the russian orthodox church was, and, unfortunately, today remains an instrument of enslavement, er,... of peoples, an instrument not only of russification,

but of planting certain stereotypes or archetypes of social behavior that were created in communist times, we know that even the name russian orthodox church was given to that church by stalin, who tried to use religion as a tool for not... religious, and for the atheistic enslavement, not only of its own citizens, but also of its influence on the international arena, this church was an instrument of the destruction of the ukrainian greek catholic church, and all our efforts to start a serious dialogue in order to heal the wounds of the past and give an opportunity, for this church to change itself, well, they did not achieve the desired success, but today society

is demanding these vestiges... of soviet and russian imperialism to ask themselves very deep questions, so it is natural that ukrainian society demands de-russification and decommunization, even from the orthodox environment, which , unfortunately, carries this negative baggage, that is why it is so important that the ukrainian... state finally remembers that both the kyiv-pechersk lavra and the pochaiv lavra are state property, that they are monuments, spiritual shrines that do not belong to any particular denomination, but they are the shrines of the entire ukrainian people, and we all must take responsibility for them. so,

even when i listen. you know how our people's deputies outline their legislative intentions regarding churches, and when we hear that there is talk of banning a certain church, i am very cautious about it, because our church was banned at one time, and it is impossible to ban a church, i would approach this process from a positive side, our ukrainian the government should help, that is... the church to get rid of russian imperial influence, that is, de facto today there is a process of liberating the ukrainian orthodox church, ugh, and the orthodox church of ukraine from that russian baggage. interestingly, our brothers from the orthodox church of ukraine are experiencing this

in his own way, having the support of the world. which patriarchy well, unfortunately, unfortunately, there is a part of the religious environment that is today a carrier of further influences of our northern neighbor. and today they too must go through this process of de-russification and decommunization. it's not easy. this is a painful process. because, you see, it is not enough to simply disconnect legally. or canonically from some center of influence, which today is in the state of the aggressor, because - this type of detachment has many other aspects, the church is the heart of a certain cultural environment, here is the church life of it not only

with hymns, rites, traditions, even with its theological constitution. it reflects a certain tradition of a certain society and a certain people, that is why the de-russification of church life from the cultural, spiritual, canonical, even liturgical side is such a rather complicated process. our church at one time was under such a rather intense influence... of the latin church, we had a process of latinization, later recovery of our eastern identity, that is, we had experience and we have experience in how to really return to the sources of kyiv christianity, we would like to share this experience with our orthodox brothers, i

hope that one day we will all have our own place for prayer. even in the kyiv-pechersk lavry, in st. sophia and the pochaiv lavry, because we are not talking about property, it is not about us owning any property, no, it is about a certain spiritual space, a space of unity, a space of brotherhood, a space of true communication with by god and with our brothers and sisters, and what... pope francis of rome and ukrainian society, which, let me remind you again, is very sensitive in the second year of the war. and sometimes it seems that no matter who looks at it, no matter what anyone says, all this will be perceived, well, very sharply.

i know how the ukrainian greek-catholic church reacted to all the information related to pope francis, everything that happened in society, let's say, in political circles, in journalistic circles. if you can share. how was it and has anything changed, maybe? obviously, our church is a part of the ukrainian one society, and we all together react in the same way. yes, you are sure, because there were very sharp reactions when, when something hurts us, when something is not clear to us, we spontaneously react all together and all in the same way, eh. this also falls a little bit on the lines of tension that i already mentioned . sometimes we don't understand how the world can evaluate what is happening

in ukraine in a different way? we sometimes say that various international institutions do not fully understand us, because they react late, sometimes help comes late, we constantly need to explain our pain, ours. need, our vision of this unjust war, and this is something that happens at different levels, the diplomatic level, and also the church level, and that is why we had the feeling that sometimes, holy father, the apostolic church does not fully understand us, huh, and our church has its own... relationship with the apostolic capital, institutional relations, and it is obvious that we were the voice of ukrainian society in that direction, we felt that

it was our duty to be the voice not only of faithful catholics of ukraine, but also of the ailing ukrainian people and here it is important for yourself realize a few very important points. er, because it will save us a little emotions and will help us better understand how to communicate the truth about what hurts us, how we need help and support from various international, including church institutions. when it comes to the holy father, the pope of rome, about the apostolic capital, in the face of any conflicts and wars in the world, this church institution, the person of the holy

father, always takes a neutral position, tries to be above the conflict, and this in us today causes disappointment, confusion, how can you be neutral? when a criminal kills an innocent victim, such neutrality is associated with a thousand-year tradition, a certain role, a certain ministry of the successor of the apostle peter in the universal church, a ministry that gave birth to european diplomacy. the holy father, the roman see, even in the first millennium, was the highest arbiter of christendom. there is such an

old phrase: roma liukuta, kausa finita. rome has spoken, the matter is over. it was the last instance of appeal, when there were different ones conflicts, disputes, misunderstandings, both at the church and international level. that's why this one. an arbitrator in order to remain an arbitrator, he tried to be impartial, and then he was always the highest platform, a bridge in order to serve peace, prevent conflicts, and indeed, well, the conflict and unjust war that we are experiencing today, put in a crisis such type, institution and caused us very deep questions, we asked ourselves, well, explain what this neutrality is, what

is this... um, diplomatic mission uh of the holy father, today. and in such a dialogue, we understood, it was very interesting, i would say, the history, perhaps, of the development, even of this diplomatic philosophy. there are two types of neutrality. there is diplomatic neutrality, which consists in having an opportunity to support. relations and dialogue with both sides that are at war today, and the second, the second kind of neutrality, this is moral neutrality, here the vatican, apostro, is not neutral when it comes to the moral evaluation of this tragedy, when it comes to who should be helped and who should be saved.

here we feel that the holy father and the apostolic capital are completely on the side of ukraine. and here is the latest development of events, in particular, in september of this year. we were at the peak of this media crisis, which was connected with certain statements of the holy father to the catholics of russia. well, this outraged not only ukrainian society, but... many other european countries, i know that even in lithuania, in poland, the papal nuncio was summoned in order to get certain clarifications, well, at the height of that conflict, all the bishops of our church from ukraine and the whole world came to rome for their annual synod, i 'm afraid to imagine how it all looked from their own,

you know, one. so it was, it was somehow so, you know, very providential, because when we , er, made the decision to convene the synod of bishops this year in rome, we had no idea what moment it would happen, a moment in the building of relations between ukraine and apostolic capital, er, for me, as the head of the church, it was simply salvation, uh, because always the one who criticizes and complains the most, was, was me, as a person, uh, and maybe someone had the impression that, well, uh , just uh, that one personality is always dissatisfied with something, you such a reputation, so here, a whole synod came here, and even at the moment when the papal synod on

synodality was to begin in just a few weeks. that is, about a new way of building relationships in the church, to move away from such a command-administrative way, more collegial, joint, and we asked for an audience with the pope, it is very interesting that the pope gave us an audience for one hour, and then moved it an hour earlier, we de facto... came to the pope for a meeting when none of the vatican institutions were still working, at 7 o'clock in the morning, instead of one o'clock, we had the opportunity to communicate for two hours, and i, as the head of the church , was really very satisfied, because i just presented our synod to the pope and gave each of the bishops the opportunity to stand up and speak, and our bishops spoke in ukrainian,

english, - portuguese, spanish in different languages. interesting that the pope corrected himself, huh. to a certain extent, er, made us understand that those statements of his were, unsuccessful. and at the end, listening to the voice of the bishops about the pain of ukraine, he himself added, he says. one more thing probably hurts you, you probably doubt whose side the pope is on, and today i want to declare to you that the pope is with you, that is, you see, this moral neutrality has been completely clarified, these doubts and our pain may have been a little.