the rulers spoke ukrainian , english, portuguese, spanish in various languages, it is interesting that the pope corrected himself, uh, to a certain extent, uh, let us understand that those statements of his were unsuccessful, and at the end, listening to the voice of the bishops about the pain of ukraine, he himself added, he said: you probably have one more thing bothering you, you probably doubt whose side the pope is on, and i want to declare to you today, the pope is with you, that is, you see , this moral neutrality was absolutely clarified, these possible doubts and our pain were a little. a little i would say

blocked, but i say to him, more, father, very nice, thank you, and now before us, let's demonstrate all this, a difficult task, to return home and convince our people of this, er, our, our, our people, so you see, the dynamics are very interesting, but our voice is important, and it changes, changes the world's understanding of what is happening in ukraine, as shevchenko said, for the whole world... we heard what was happening in ukraine, what people died for, what glory the cossacks all over the world became, the war continues, and not only for territories, it is also a war for minds, we are engaged in propaganda, russia is throwing millions of oil dollars to turn ukrainians into little russians. ukraine will become russia. we are countering the information attacks of the russians in the project of the chronicle of the information war.

with olga ley. monday, tuesday, thursday at 17:15 on espresso tv channel. vasyl zima's big broadcast. two hours of airtime, two hours of your time. two hours to learn about the war and how the world lives. two hours to keep up with economic and sports news. two hours in the company of loved ones presenters, presenters who have become kind of like to many, as well as distinguished guests of the studio. the events of the day in two hours, vasyl zima's big broadcast, a project for smart and caring people, espresso in the evening. hello, this is svoboda ranok, an informational project of radio svoboda. top guests every day. this is the shipping district, kherson. turn on live. we are somewhere in

the vicinity of bakhmut, telling the main thing. on weekdays at 9:00. and what is actually happening? i know several cases, er, when ukrainian greek catholic priests, for example in berdyansk, became victims of russian occupation on a level with clergymen, in particular, protestant churches, comfortably themselves, only clergymen of the moscow patriarchate were heard there, but not about them now. we understand that religious figures are another target for the enemy. maybe it seems so to me, but when we talk about the fact that they target medics so that they don't save our soldiers from the battlefield, when they target journalists so that they don't cover real events on the battlefield, when they target paramedics to did not put out the fire after their shelling, they also target

our ukrainian religious figures, so that people do not receive spiritual support when they need it so much, and the ukrainian greek catholic church, as we understand it, is now struggling, at least for a few that only i know, now clergymen, how common is this phenomenon, how much exactly for ukrainian greek catholics in various countries today... maybe the occupiers are hunting the occupied territories? you see, this has always been the case in history, as soon as the russian empire conquered, destroyed a separate part of ukraine, the first ones they tried to eliminate were the structures of our church. why? because our church was never state, but state and nation-building. by the way, you know, before

that the russian propagandists agreed that the very idea of ​​ukraine's independence was called political uniadism, that was so interesting to me. to listen, that is, they are panickingly afraid of our church, which is naturally the soul of the ukrainian people, which formed the modern face of the ukrainian nation, by the way, this year we mentioned the memory of our holy martyr josaphat kuntsevich, and this celebration in rome acquired a very wide international significance and level, the lithuanian state at the state level... celebrated this anniversary, we somehow together with our brothers and sisters from lithuania realized that josaphat was his figure formed the face of four modern nations, ukrainians, lithuanians, belarusians and poles, i.e. all those peoples who lived on the territory

of the former polish-lithuanian commonwealth, and it is obvious that every time the moscow state destroyed this identity of europeans who lived on... this territories were the first to try to destroy our church, and this is still happening today, in the occupied territories our priests made a conscious choice to stay with their people, uh, and yet they suffer and wander around russian prisons. at the moment, there is not a single catholic priest in... the occupied territories of donbass, zaporizhzhia, and left bank kherson oblast. er, some were simply deported, like our priests from melitopol, and some, er, were arrested, and

their fate is not fully known to us. you mentioned our two priests from bsoviet, two monks, redemptorists, father. ivan levytsky, father of bohdan geleta, we still had information about them when they were held in our berdyansk, it was information from those of their fellow prisoners who were later released, from whom we learned, perhaps, whether they, whether they are still alive, later, what we know today, they were moved from there to somewhere, and their trace, unfortunately, was lost, we still don't know anything about them, but these... i wonder why, why, the occupation authorities decided on them, to arrest, because first full-scale invasion, residents of berdyansk prayed together

in front of the inscription: "i love berdyansk", it was a joint prayer for the city they love. at first it was tolerated , they looked at it so carefully, then it may have changed , so the person in the occupying power, and this type of prayer began to be considered an unauthorized protest, and for the love of berdyansk, obviously for their people, those priests, er, were deprived of their freedom , were arrested, obviously we appeal and appeal. to various international institutions, diplomatic various missions, with a request to help us save them. their fate is still unknown. this is how our community in luhansk, our community in donetsk and in

the vicinity of donetsk was also destroyed. and recently, certain orders of the occupation authorities in zaporozhye were made public, which clearly...clearly issued an order to liquidate our church, confiscate our property and ban the activities of not only our religious institutions, but also humanitarian missions, such as the knights of columbus, caritas, which, characteristically , have always been engaged in saving human, human life. what is the conclusion, everyone is afraid something that reminds of ukraine. everything that constitutes the identity of the ukrainian people, everything that is a manifestation of its individuality, is a manifestation of its true face, everything that can give hope, hope to people that one day

the ukrainian state will be able to restore its sovereignty on those occupied territories, that is, you see, here... it shows how much the ukrainian greek-catholic church is considered a threat to the spread of russian peace, and as one of our still underground lords once said. where there is a greek catholic church, there is ukraine. it is obvious that this is primarily about religious identity, which has always, always been nation-building, and we need the church not to lose its role even in modern circumstances. i know that pope francis knows for sure about these, at least two priests, and i know for sure that the vatican is still in contact with... with the russian orthodox church, in particular their patriarch, patriarch kirill, who

takes his word for it that if a russian goes to kill in ukraine, then he is cleansed of any other sins, this is almost a verbatim quote from him, but less so. can we hope? on the practical manifestation of this diplomacy, the very important religious diplomacy we are talking about, which is very often kept, despite the fact that it is moral. as you said, pope francis is on our side. this diplomacy has two wings: public diplomacy and non-public diplomacy, or it is this non-public wing that can sometimes be, you know, a little stronger and more effective. that's why it's important, about all things, let me not, don't talk now, everything is secret, it will become clear, sooner or later, eh, but, at the same time. on the occasion of our synod's stay in rome, then my participation in to the papal synod, indeed, our delegation had

the opportunity to work a lot with various institutions of the apostolic capital, including the state secretariat. this is the core of vatican diplomacy. by the way, the holy father very approvingly accepted quite a few. deep, important initiatives of ours, the creation of certain mechanisms, uh , how to monitor the situation in russia in order to protect ourselves from russian propaganda and so on, that is, our work, i see, was very, very interesting and very successful, but a concrete manifestation of this was the participation of the apostolic capital in those international... forums that our state organizes in order not only to clarify our

formula for peace, but to enlist the support, you know, not only of world powers and states, but also of various international institutions. and so we were very pleased that the vatican implemented the peace formula. obviously, in those parts where the church institution or church diplomacy considers itself competent, and here there are several very interesting points that are already working in favor of the ukrainian people and our state. first of all, this is a humanitarian issue, secondly, it is a question of releasing our recruits, in particular, in particular from us. and the return home of ukrainian children abducted by the russian federation. we already have certain

glimpses, hopes, and first successes, i think that we are only at the beginning of a very difficult path. likewise, the apostolic capital is very actively working to unblock the export corridors of ukrainian grain. ugh. because the vatican is part of this international institution called fao, that is, which fights hunger in the world, and , uh, here, here, uh, those mechanisms of presence, activity are really very, very useful for ukraine, and, i think, will be on our side in the future, and there is another part , very interesting, important, this is an issue of ecology, oh , thank you, for... we know that pope

francis has a special sensitivity to this issue, together with the ecumenical patriarch, by the way, patriarch bartholomew is sometimes called the green patriarch, he he has been the initiator of various initiatives for the protection of the environment and the development of christian morality for decades, environmental protection, here we also cooperate very actively and constantly. we are talking about this trauma, which is received not only by the society, the people of ukraine, but also, therefore, the environment, the issues, therefore, for... which are connected with the zaporizhia nuclear power plant and the blackmail that russia, you know, is doing, so , with the help of this power plant, which is actually held hostage by this criminal, let's not talk about ecological damage to the black sea and many other types of damage to the environment,

which goes beyond the borders of only ukraine. territories, thus, this peace formula offered by our state to the world, naturally, it is not just a formula, it is 10 disasters brought to our land by the occupier, 10 tragedies, each of which needs its own solution, it is something , which today is very specifically being used by the apostolic capital. and here we felt an absolute understanding. the huge world humanitarian solidarity with ukraine is important. indeed, while participating in the papal synod, i had the opportunity to speak with the leaders and delegates of the catholic church from almost all countries of the world. you know, huge sympathy, huge support. er,

i did not meet any pro-moscow delegation. i will not talk about my conversations with catholics from russia and belarus, this is a separate, separate story, and as we wish, we can plan the next interview, a separate story, here, but really here is the very fact that we are in the global network of the catholic church and today we have this network on our side, well, this is a unique way in which... er, not only to convey the truth about ukraine, but also to receive the support we need. it there is not much time left, and i do not have the right to delay you more than we agreed, but this is a little bit, the issue of 2023, unfortunately, is crowned by the fact that not only the conflict and war in ukraine are on the front

pages, we see that happening in the middle east, we understand with a sinking heart how we... the situation in latin america, for example, yes, but it is more about politics, may develop. i would like to draw attention to what my good friend, our analyst karl voloh, said, sometimes i look at ukraine and it seems to me that we are left an island of adequacy in the world, in the sense that the near east, and we see protests. of the muslim world is very often of such a destructive nature, that is how we see some disturbance of anti-semitic movements around the world at times, we continue to be witnesses and, unfortunately, sometimes victims of what the russian orthodox church does, their rhetoric, their propaganda and so on, we manage to keep,

you know, a cold head and a warm heart to everyone in the world. i don't know, it's strange, on the one hand, because we are in the midst of all these events, and on the other hand, it gives great hope that precisely in ukraine, the ukrainian people in particular, may be behind a trend somewhere in the world, you know, not to be too sharp where it can be avoided, our indigenous people practice islam, and these are our crimean tatars for example, right? and we have representatives of other religions and it is not a problem, do you think that this is really a miracle for the modern world? you know, the whole world today understands that ukraine is the epicenter of global world changes, by the way, the head of diplomacy of one of the european

countries, i will not say which one, told me the following phrase: who was not in kyiv today, is an outsider of world politics and diplomacy , whether the whole world wants it or not, today he is going to ukraine, trying to understand the tectonic changes that are happening right here in our country, because the history, not only of europe, but of the whole world, will depend on this, how events will proceed the world and here ukraine is setting many trends today, here, for example, er, a few months ago the all-ukrainian council of churches visited the united states, er. at the peak of these polarizations, even society in the usa, where on the one hand the muslim environment, and on the other hand, the jews, well, they tried

to reach out and intercept as many of their supporters as possible, and here comes the all-ukrainian council of churches, where a jewish rabbi and... muftis, orthodox and catholics of various traditions, as well as protestants, that is, the all-ukrainian council , sit together at the same table the appearance of the church was already some new trend, there is nothing like it in any other country in the world, but in all those, i would say, moments, our church, the ukrainian, greek-catholic church has its own special. his mission and his place, we are not the only church in ukraine that has a global network of presence, so you could see

, you know, from those shots, the surprise of our president zelensky, when he was visiting argentina and met the ukrainian greek-catholic bishop buenos aires, who welcomed him there in latin america and told him about the ukrainian centenary. community and our church there, that is , it is shown that the global network of the presence of our church and in the ukrainian diaspora is the heart of that ukrainian world, that global ukrainianness, about which so today, our president often thinks and speaks, even in my opinion, in recent days at his press conference he spoke about 60 million ukrainians, half of whom live abroad, and this half... mostly gathers in the network of the religious structure of the ukrainian greek catholic church, indeed, when

the war of the holy land began with those terrorist attacks by hamas, i was just then at the papal synod, and it was really visible how ukraine began to disappear from the front pages, that is, of international news publications, daily reports, that is, our war began to go a little bit into the background, and this could not help but worry us, and then our church began a powerful advocacy activity, trying to do everything so that the world would not forget about ukraine, but you know that it became obvious to everyone that russia... exports war on the whole world in order to divert attention from their own crimes on ukrainian soil, but our church in cooperation with

the world ukrainian community will not allow this to be done, and therefore we will continue to act at the international level, using all our means that we we have, the latter is typical i had the opportunity precisely in the context of all... those moments of the export of war by russia, to have a meeting with the heads of various states of europe, somehow the lord god arranged everything, that at the moment of good news from the european commission from brussels, i was physically in the premises of the european parliament, many there are good, interesting, positive notes and many such promi. light, but we must see that light, not think that the world has forgotten about us and turned away, let's not look for enemies where there are none, whether

in europe, or in washington, or in the vatican, let's create, search, attract to our side those who really wish us well, ugh, maybe win friends where... so far we don't have them today, and here the ukrainian greek-catholic church feels his special mission, which he will perform confidently, methodically and successfully. thank you for this talk on christmas eve, i hope our viewers had as much fun as i did, and lots of pointers for the year ahead. his beatitude sviatoslav shevchuk, father and head of ukrainian greek catholic church. for the espresso tv channel and together with the espresso tv channel, and we wish everyone a merry christmas and a happy new year.

i think we can start our panel, so 10 years ago the decade of the maidan, the second maidan, maybe the third maidan for some, marked the beginning of a new, fundamentally new cycle that we are all experiencing now, and this cycle for me is fear, will not end so easily and will not end without major changes, and here the changes are not ukrainian, but also changes on levels of the entire european continent, and possibly the whole world, but our place, at least in that process, is not only to act

correctly, but also to reflect correctly, and accordingly, today our guests will do this great act. today , katryna kalytko, vitaly portnikov, yevheniya kuznitsova work on the panel. i think that the key story, well, the key thesis, is when what we call the maidan began, that is, a shift, a change in ukrainian society, which meant a big break with the russian empire, with... the russian narrative, with its inclusion in the russian space, cultural and civilizational, and in general, can the events of the maidan be considered as the formation of a fundamentally new ukraine, the process that, as it were, formally began in 1991, and perhaps it just materialized or became more pronounced or manifested precisely in 2014, we are also

experiencing it now. parts of this large and difficult cycle, i think that each of the participants has his own vision and his own answers, and perhaps additional questions of a rhetorical plan, well, we will start, of course, with vitaly portnikova, what's wrong with me, well, that's how things are going, because yes, thank you for all of you coming to see us. to listen at this important forum, important because i believe that now every event that is happening in ukraine, which shows that we are living, not surviving, under missile attacks and under drone strikes, is evidence that russia's plans to destroy ukrainian statehood and the ukrainian people cannot

be implemented. i would still like to start this conversation about the maidan in 2013-2014 with some statements about what happened in the 90s, as antin said in his foreword. i am sincerely convinced, although it is not customary to say so, that we supporters of ukrainian independence in 1991 were in an absolute minority in our own country. of course, you can say that there were results of the referendum on december 1, 1991, with which we absolutely coped, because there was an overwhelming majority of people in favor of the independence of ukraine, but you have to remember that a few months before that, another referendum was held for the preservation of the soviet union, where the vast majority of people are also not in this region ukraine, but in all other countries, except for the western

lands, there were. for the preservation of the soviet union, i remember my emotions at the first founding congress of the movement, but on the one hand i was happy to see people who came to fight for the future of the country, for independence, on the other hand, it hurt , because before that i went to the congresses of the popular fronts of the baltic countries and saw the public support for what was happening, in tallinn at the first such congress i was stunned. how the whole country is preparing for the people's front of estonia congress, as the main event in the life of the estonian people. i understood that this was a nationwide movement. in kyiv, at the first movement convention, we were in a real aquarium. i remember how i left the congress and did not take off the blue-yellow badge that i had on my lapel, which was in the delegation.