good evening, we are from ukraine, glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, i greet everyone and wish everyone good health. for the next hour , we talk about ukraine, the world, the war, and our victory. today in the program. more questions than answers, increased mobilization, what is the new draft law about and what are they saying about luzhnyi and zelenskyi? ukraine's prospects for 2024: does our country have a military-political strategy for a long-term war and what will a change in tactics mean? struggle for the chair or a split in power, the ratings of zelenskyi and zaluzhnyi, who really.

we will talk about this and other things over the course of the next hour with people's deputy of ukraine mykola knyazhytskyi , general serhiy kryvonos and executive director of the institute of world politics yevgeny magda. however, before we start our big conversation, let's watch a video of how ukrainian troops destroyed a russian tank from an american anti-tank missile complex, an explosive video from the 65th separate mechanized brigade in tokmak. direction, let's see.

friends, for those who are currently watching us on youtube and facebook, please subscribe to our pages on these platforms and also like this video. also, subscribe to our social media pages, telegram, facebook, instagram, tiktok, we are on all social networks. in addition, during our program we conduct a survey, we ask you whether ukraine needs a single telethon, yes, no. please vote on youtube, and if you're watching us on tv, pick up your phone and vote if do you think that ukraine needs a single telethon, 0800 211 381, no, 0800 211 382. we have our first guest, people's deputy of ukraine, mykola knyazhytskyi. mr. mykola, i congratulate you and thank you for joining the broadcast. congratulations, thank you. on december 25, the government submitted

a bill on mobilization to the parliament even before it was considered in the session hall of the verkhovna rada , lively discussion of this document has already begun both within the walls of the parliament and outside the walls of the council. how do you assess the proposed changes by shmyhal's government regarding mobilization and the formation of the mobilization team resource in 2024. well, there are several aspects here, because we also saw the statements of president zelenskyi, there was his press conference, there was the first separate press conference of commander-in-chief general zaluzhnyi, it is widely discussed in society, so the first thing we can do is that mobilization is definitely necessary . obviously, it is quite clear that the defenders of ukraine, who are in the army without any prospect of release, this is absurd, people cannot, without... any hope that they

will be replaced one day, be constantly in the army, well, they can, if it is a voluntary choice , and there are many of them, because there is a war in ukraine, and in principle the situation is very difficult, but people should know when they will be released, and the military themselves have long expected that it will be 24 months after all given the fact that after being mobilized into the armed forces of ukraine, the ukrainians mobilized could return home after that, the draft law proposes 36 months and by and large... general zaluzhnye supported these 36 months, said that it was a certain compromise between him and by the government, so people need to be changed, plus, obviously, that everything depends on the plans of the aggressor, and if it happens that more soldiers and more officers will be needed, then obviously more people will have to be mobilized, so, unfortunately, mobilization is definitely necessary. another matter is how it is conducted in ukraine and by what methods are they conducted? at first, in principle, it was broken over many years. the entire

history of mobilization, which was carried out by the former military commissars or tsk, and we remember perfectly the period when, after the volunteers left, they then mobilized whoever they could, these people were not enough, people... went to the territorial defense units, hoping that they would defend the bridges there in their homeland, where there is no direct hostilities, here they have already turned into infantry by a large number of brigades, and in this way the first problem was solved with mobilization, to some extent it was a deception, but there was no other way out, because if there were not these people who heroically began to defend ukraine, then there would not have been our successes at the front and there would have been much more successes of the enemy, after that it is obvious now this draft law was submitted, and from this of the draft law, everyone is afraid of it and everyone throws it like a baked potato from hand to hand. the president says it's not him, that it's not his responsibility, even though he 's the commander-in-chief, the commander-in-chief says that they submitted the need for armed forces to the government and the government should determine that, which

is true in principle, but he himself says that he would where the place where he wouldn't want to serve is the former warlords, yes, and they are subordinate. of the army, and when the president intervened and ordered the dismissal of all the military commissars, apparently there were those among them what kind of houses were built there in spain, they must be expelled and their activities investigated, but there were probably honest ones who had experience, after them came people who did not have this experience, have military commissars and military commissars ceased to be foci of corruption, no, unfortunately, no stopped, yes, by the way, as well as the borders, where the vlk continues to leave, where a huge number of people who do not want to serve continue to leave, now the law itself. the law is needed, it still sets limits on how many servicemen should be in the army, this is positive, but these the limits are too long, 36 months, but at least some , at the same time, he introduces a lot of restrictive measures according to a strange principle, for example, bep employees

cannot serve in our country, and although these are almost ukrainianized formations, it is an economic security service, and the prosecutor of sab can be called at any moment. er, or all, the fops must register their vehicles, or in general all citizens must register in a short time with the military registers, which is generally correct, but let's ask ourselves the question, is it possible to do it in a month or two, and this and men and women, imagine the queues and what will be done there, and now imagine that we will take away the passports, or not extend them or limit the validity of the cards of those who went abroad and did not return. they will still not return, but they will renounce ukrainian citizenship and we will lose a huge number of people in this way. thus, it must be stated that there are many positive novelties in this law, well, for example, this base is unified, we once adopted a law in the first reading on a unified military register, is it

it will be built in a different way, but such a register is needed, but these punitive methods , which sometimes work out or contradict the constitution, are obviously wrong, so it can be said for sure that there is still a lot of work to be done on the law by... but realizing that if we if we do not carry out a high-quality mobilization, then we have a chance to simply all be captured by the enemy, our state has a chance to be destroyed, and there is no need to be afraid, the worst thing is that the president says that it is not his responsibility, yes, but it is his responsibility in fact, the government and the president who is supreme commanders and not one minister of defense, but the whole government, the prime minister and the president should come out and report this project, but they don't want, they want it to be... or only the minister of defense, where his responsibility is not is so big, because the ministry of economy is also involved there, what will happen to our economy, all the others are the ministry of justice, other branches, or the general staff, which is really just the customer in this, and the president and the head of the cabinet of ministers, by the way, should normally come out , the president talks about

the fact that the draft law on changes in mobilization should be public, let's listen to what zelensky said, it would be correct for such norms to be discussed and adopted not behind the scenes, but in such a way that people understand what the vision of the military command is, what are the motives behind certain rules and the conditions proposed by the deputies and how they solve this issue, which our soldiers in the defense forces already have. the law is something that applies to everyone, everyone in the state, it will be correct that on the basis of the committee of the verkhovna rada of ukraine, the military together with the deputies... decided on how exactly the next year should be provided for our defense forces at the legislative level. you are right, mr. mykola , when you say that the supreme commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine would have his own vision, or at least tell

how he sees how this mobilization should take place, because it looks like there are military personnel, there are deputies who should make these changes or decisions on a legislative basis. levels to ensure next year, as he says, for our defense forces, and the position of the supreme the commander-in-chief is not there, because at his last press conference, which took place literally a week ago, the supreme ... commander-in-chief said that they told me at the pond that we need to mobilize 500,000 there, and suddenly information appears from the lieutenant that 500,000 is not for a year, but it is during the year and not directly in the spring, and that this is a mobilization resource, which is necessary in any case, whether this bill will be adopted or not, because the issue is still financing, and also answers to whether these 500 billion will be for hryvnias for mobilization. these 500,000 ukrainians are not there either, how would you assess the role of the supreme commander, well, how is he

now acting in the role of whom? well, you see, it seems to me that a lot of politicians continue to think in terms of political categories, thinking about the election and about their rating, this is very harmful, because what should the supreme leader do, by the way , i do not agree with the honorable mr. president when he says that it is necessary that all this should be publicly discussed, no, i think that he should gather himself or. military cabinet or invite representatives the cabinet of ministers, representatives of the general staff and representatives of the specialized committee of the verkhovna rada sit down together, work out a project that would suit everyone, and then the president or the prime minister should present a consolidated such project, thought out, logical, discussed, and not taken raw the project, everyone criticizes it, everyone, as i have already said, transfers potatoes from department to department and the president, unfortunately, too, he should be a leader, it is needed here. because well , every responsible person understands that mobilization is necessary, unfortunately, it is very

unfortunate, but we must also understand that those people who went abroad, that we should not scare them now, force them to deprive them of ukrainian citizenship, take away passports, block cards, because they will never return , and we are interested in returning them, let's fight corruption at the borders, when there is a way in the system and other systems, we know who allowed all these departures, these people were punished somewhere, someone... sees when we read there , then some deputies left, did not return, then officials left and did not return, then some young people left and did not return, and it turns out that, unfortunately, we scare all these people, use them, this law is still the way it is written, it is unconstitutional, it will not be effective, because it is very important for it to be effective, at the same time there are other people who say that let's not talk about it, let's forget about mobilization, let others accept it, and we will criticize them, then again it turns out that some ... responsibility and think how to protect the homeland, while others see only the bad in this law, the president should be

the unifying leader of this whole process, and if he managed to develop a joint project, pass it and defend it, it would then be much better than the one that is submitted now, where the authorship of an anonymous cabinet minister participated whether or not the general staff participated in its development, it is not clear, many say that they did, even the lawyers of the general staff developed it, the general staff says that it has nothing to do with it, and it is logical, because they are the customers, so... in a word, absolutely did not understand situation, and the law is needed. can this bill, which will become a law in the future, cause some kind of indignation among the people, of course, during the war , protest actions are impossible, because there is a state of war, and in principle, this is playing into the hands of the enemy, but, taking into account that, on those norms of the draft law that are currently contained, how critical are they in your opinion for people, for different categories. people who can say: listen, come on, we're not against mobilization, but let's not be without these draconian methods when

there is a fine of 34,000, 51,000 for appearing on a commission, a military medical commission, there we take away from suitable, unsuitable, limited suitable, that is, all practically 90% of men will all be suitable, it is also clear, and this also raises a lot of questions from those people who have a disability or who cannot go there. because of the state of health, will this not cause some kind of indignation, not the lack of this communication and explanation of what this law is a draft law or what kind of law, and how it will be applied, will this not cause any waves, folk waves, let's put it this way, well , imagine that you are a 40-year-old or 45-year-old female fop, and they tell you that if you do not register with the tsc in a month, then you will not be able to perform any operations, your... the accounts will be blocked, and when you register , put your car on the register, maybe it will be needed for the army, you come, you

even want to do it, come, and there is a crazy queue and there is an appointment for 10 days in advance and there is a big risk , that you will not do this, because the terms proposed by the law are there just unreal, which, how, well, what will you feel, you will be willing to give any money to escape from this lawless country and forget about it, before it all started to work, that's why it's necessary here, i don't think that there will be some waves of public indignation. unfortunately, the indignation for many will be futile, people will simply flee the country, and this cannot be assumed, because the president answered his press conference that he would like all ukrainians to return, and such actions just... can scare ukrainians, but whether he will perform, whether it will be good for the army, whether it is really carried out there will be mobilization then, no, because mobilization must be encouraged, financially encouraged, money must be paid for it , effective recruiting is required, because there are indeed many specialties in the army where people could go, if you are a computer scientist, you can be a computer expert, if you

are a good driver there, you can be a driver, regardless of what was written in your old military specialty, if it is well paid and it is explained correctly, then people will go and there are brigades, who conduct recruiting independently and people to them are recorded, and when there is no such explanation on the one hand, and on the other hand you are intimidated and set impossible conditions, even to be on the record, then this discredits the state itself, there is a great danger in this, and therefore this process must be approached extremely professionally, carefully, so as to encourage people to join the army and so as not to bend the stick and expel those people who are not needed there anyway or will not go. outside the country, and this is primarily the responsibility of the supreme commander and the head of the cabinet ministers, it is their direct responsibility, you have seen at least one speech by shmygal on this matter, well, excuse me, when we say that there are not enough funds and the finance minister comes out, the finance minister can say that it is not that there are not enough funds, but some other minister can to say, on the contrary, that we expect large revenues there, the head of the tax department will say

, and someone else will say something else, and the minister of health will say that we will not have enough... hospitals there if there are so many people, and the minister of defense will say , that we will not buy weapons for such a large number of people as we are we can call, because we don't have a budget either, we don't have a budget for this, and that's why this is a question first of all for the minister of justice, or rather the minister of finance and most importantly the prime minister, and they should report on this and explain to society, we see them, no, and this is of course a problem, so we need to sit down together, work out an effective law, and not create waves in society. not to drive people out of the country and still provide those guys who left on the first day of the full-scale invasion the opportunity at least to return home someday, because these people also need to be understood, they are a million people, after all, there are now somewhere in the ukrainian armed forces. mr. mykola, it has already been announced that this bill will be considered in the verkhovna rada on january 10, from 10 a.m. to 14. you

have already discussed this bill in your faction, do you have any position? will this position be formed closer to the consideration of this, to the first reading of this bill? well , look, first of all, the position of the committee must be formed, there must be a position the cabinet of ministers, because despite the fact that they submitted this project, there will obviously be amendments to it, everyone must understand perfectly well that on january 10, no draft law will be adopted, because in order to adopt it, it must be adopted in the first reading, then to completely revise, rewrite, as it usually happens with... many draft laws, it will be necessary to do this and then make a decision on how to act in this situation. it is obvious that the idea of ​​the project requires proper mobilization. it is obvious that it is written terribly and inefficiently, but it is necessary to make an effective project that would stimulate people to join the army, and not scare those who should not appear there at all. thank you,

mr. mykola, it was people's deputy of ukraine mykola knyazhytskyi. friends, we are working live on the tv channel. express, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those who are currently watching us on youtube and facebook, please like this video and subscribe to our pages on those platforms. in addition, throughout the broadcast we are conducting a survey, today we ask you about does ukraine need a single telethon. on youtube, voting is quite simple, you choose yes, no, or write your comment under this video. if you are sitting and watching us on tv, please take it. mobile phone and vote if you support a single telethon, do you need it, 0800 211381, and if not, 08021382, all calls to these numbers are free, please vote, at the end of the program we will summarize this vote. next

, we will be in touch with the reserve major general of the armed forces of ukraine, former first deputy commander of special operations forces. of the armed forces of ukraine and former deputy secretary of the national security and defense council serhiy krivonos. mr. general, i congratulate you and thank you for joining our broadcast. good evening, glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. mr. general, first of all, you have already read and seen the bill that the government submitted on mobilization, and obviously you already have a lot of questions and comments about this bill, because... people evaluate this bill from the point of view of their interests there, rights, obligations, you are a combat general, you understand what is at stake much more than those who sit in the verkhovna rada. of ukraine, please tell me what this draft law provides and whether the system outlined in this draft law is correct?

well, the question is that when civilian people, absolutely far from the mobilization, from the mobilization of the 14th and 22nd years, begin to tell and write laws, then a big trouble begins, because people are not professionals, but for some reason think that they are already... super geniuses, not just professionals, and these laws are beginning to blink, moreover , not forgetting in this law, how to cover up one's bitch and how to send others directly to war, that's why i have many questions, and i am more than sure that there will be changes to it, and we even have a presidential one, that it is very good when the bill is discussed directly. but i will say that it would be very good if the law, the existing law on mobilization, mobile training, was implemented in full, including by the president in the first place, that is, if the current

legislation was implemented and those laws, then perhaps it should not, should not have appeared such a draft law, about which there are a lot of questions, it is absolutely true, here the question is, it was clearly understood that... our law-making deputies did not read the law in its entirety, in addition did not understand how it works in life, did not communicate with someone who knows about it and decided to make changes as they see it, but the question is that you can write 30 laws, 40, 50, 100, but if the first one that was written will not be followed, but the actual law the existing prescribed is not enough between well, and there the main question is to implement it. all the direct officials , starting from the president, ending with the last chairman of the village council and the head of the enterprise, are written there, to whom, what, how to do, and most importantly, we

see that in the existing law, the military, as consumers, let’s call it that, well, excuse me , - i will not tell others, those who accept the results of mobilization and those who receive results depending on the correct organized mobilization training, they are the very last ones on this list. and the main task lies with those who must carry it out, and our president forms a point of view even during the conference, during the discussion of issues related to the new law that they will consider, that this is just the whims of the military, then forgive me that we have only one military man fighting, i thought that supreme golen komanovych also had to fight directly to manage the processes, and it is written in his duties that he establishes the method, the goal, the tasks and... the deadlines for the mobilization are appointed by who is responsible for certain stages, at which stages who reports what, so you know, it is not very good, this is another kind of manipulation to

remove responsibility for the inaction of the civilian authorities in providing for the needs of the armed forces, as regards trained trained people and high-quality equipment and huge the amount of armaments required, mr. general, could this for... bill, which may become law, have the opposite effect, that is, that there will not be mobilization at the level that is planned, and again there will be problems with mobilization, it will be necessary to make some additional decisions, further strengthening of mobilization, because people will now start reading this bill about blocking cards, about the fact that they will not be able to alienate their property if they do not appear before the military medical commission. that is, whether this will lead to any effect, so to speak, people will start leaving the country somewhere. well, we already have a huge

number of people fleeing the country, and for some reason the president does not pay attention to the fact that every month a certain number of our ukrainian population passes into the state border of the nearest countries, which is primarily poland. it 's slovakia, it's hungary, it's romania, and they get refugee status there, where did these people come from, how did they come, where are our glorious border guards, and why do they perform their duty so unsatisfactorily, therefore , the issue related to the formation of such a law, i see only the formation of the issue of the whip, the issue of the gingerbread is absent at all and... the most important thing is again, well , the war started in israel somehow untimely, and ukrainians now have something to compare with,

how israel's leadership behaves. to the fulfillment of their constitutional duty to protect the israeli people of the israeli territory and how our leaders relate to the fulfillment of their duty , you know, such a powerful contrast of white and red-white and black, so if in israel in israel at all any minister , his children, they perform their official duties in the ranks of tsakhalo, then tell and show. how many people's elected officials went to fight, practically minimal, in general, how many of all people's elected officials had previously served in the armed forces or other power structures. i think, first of all, the next leadership of the country, and it will be sooner or later, because we have the issue raised until march, somehow everything is planned, and then it is not clear. so, the next leadership of the country will probably adopt a law that will clearly

prescribe what to do in the civil service. certain positions in our state, only those who served in the armed forces and other power structures will have the right, then it is possible on the subconscious of those people who are responsible for the security of the country, what will change, because the people who have never been in the army tell us about the security of ukraine, by the way, about people who have never been in the army, but they say that the military leadership of the country at one time... wants to mobilize 500,000 people, volodymyr zelenskyi says that he was approached by the military, and the military insisted on mobilizing 500,000 ukrainians. valery zaluzhnyi, the head of the armed forces of ukraine, said that the defense forces do not need a one-time mobilization of 400 or 500 thousand people let's listen to what zaluzhnyi said,

in no way did he say about the number 500. for 400, i am talking about the general need, er, and i already asked one of the girls, i already said that this need, of course, is broken down into certain periods, of course, that is, someone will be mobilized in january, someone even in december. and give shoes and weapons, no, this is not true at all, mr. general, the mobilization reserve will obviously depend on how the armed forces ukrainians will be planning the year 2024 , well, the coming months, let’s say, to be in strategic defense or to plan an offensive, in your opinion, these 500,000, which zelensky is talking about, is the number of people who should be mobilized in ukraine during the 24th year

for in order to carry out a rotation, if it was an ordinary rotation, and not because of some special law, if it was an ordinary mobilization, could the armed forces of ukraine be provided with these 500 thousand people, because it is from 30 million, how much is 1% or 1 .5%, well , first of all, we no longer have 30 million inside of our state, taking into account those who left. outside the borders, some left, some fled illegally, but they have already legalized their stay there, the question is that again the authorities did not pay attention to mobilization, never engaged, if they even opened the textbooks and read, and how mobilization was carried out in such a powerful country as the united states, where even on the eve of the war, an inspection of the entire male draft class of the population was carried out.

and lots were drawn, and everyone knew when to which ground point he should arrive, yet before the start of the war, but in the case of an announcement , it has not been done in our country so far , so there is no need to hesitate, let's see how it was done in other countries, first, secondly, what is extremely important for us, while people, even today, being within the rear of ukraine, they must engage in training. moreover , not only under the leadership of general zaluzhny directly there, the local authorities in certain regions have already organized the training of people, and there are a certain number of people who go there with pleasure, understanding that sooner or later they must be engaged in this, so in each oblast, in each district there must be such training centers that would provide initial military training, and this is exactly the task of the civilian.