are outside the field of e-e mobilization and this war, which, unfortunately, has been going on for more than a year and will continue. obviously, if they voluntarily, as the estonian government wants to help those who will appear voluntarily, to come to ukraine, if those other conscripts do not want to voluntarily stay in ukraine, it is obvious that somehow they need to be pawned. and how can it be pawned? again, based on... the point of view of the constitution , the duty of citizens to protect the state is enshrined in the constitution, which, in what way it can be implemented, the following can be implemented: to give time to those conscripts to arrive, or arrive in ukraine, or arrive at consulates, diplomatic institutions located outside the border of ukraine, and voluntarily register and volunteer that they. .. so they go through some

kind of commission there or, well, they solve all these issues in some way, on the other hand, if they don’t do it, without good reasons, good reasons can be different, they can get sick or something else, if they don’t perform without good reasons, then obviously there can be some sanctions, and i think, well, those property sanctions, which are basically proposed in that, in the new law on mobilization training and mobilization, amendments to those. i think it is right, why, because again , citizens have a heightened sense of justice, why some citizens should fulfill their duty to protect the homeland, other citizens should not, well, obviously those who do not fulfill this duty, they have and do not want to fulfill it, then obviously they have to carry some responsibility, and in this case some kind of property responsibility or some kind of responsibility that will force them either to fulfill it or... or to remain in

the state in which they are. yes, mr. oleg, thank you very much for the clarification, the topic is really very important, there are many different speculations around it, so we are grateful for your comment, oleg liontiv, a lawyer in the field of military legislation, was with us on the air. and we move on. putin wants to freeze the war in ukraine and is sending signals to the west. but fighting actions must be completed on the terms of ukraine and. in accordance with international law, andrii yusov, a representative of the main intelligence department of the ministry of defense, stated this on the air of the telethon. he confirmed that moscow really wants a quick end to the war, ukraine also wants it, but on its own terms. it will be recalled that yusuv's statement was preceded by an article in the american edition of the new york times that the russian dictator is allegedly signaling to the west that he wants to freeze the war in ukraine and start negotiations. at the same time, in the center of opposition disinformation of ukraine says that the text was created. the new york times, about the peace

signals from putin, the so-called peace signals, involved russian-recruited american journalists, and this is what the agency said on their facebook page. there, emphasize that the long war with ukraine is depleting the resources and economy of the aggressor country, so it is possible that putin is really interested in peace negotiations, but the signals have a different purpose, their likely goal is to prevent the receipt of further military aid for armed forces from the west. noted in the center for combating disinformation. ihor petrenko, a political scientist, joins our broadcast. congratulations, mr. igor. i congratulate you. tell me, please, what kind of signals are seen in america, seen in the new york times, and not seen in ukraine. well, really, you said very correctly, the fundamental key thing here, from which we need to push back, is putin's so-called peace initiatives, yes, that is, we keep it in our heads. the russian federation, it

has a very extensive network of propaganda and spends quite a lot of resources on it, that's why for years it really engaged various public figures, respectively, certain politicians, including journalists, various such public initiatives or organizations that are not directly pro-russian there, and they say that they are from russia. everything is fine, we must be friends, and those who , for example, carry an ideology there, for example, anti-liberal values, yes, those who are eurosceptics, for example, yes, or some others, yes, that is, it is such a secondary, let's say, approach, in order to, to create certain topics that divide the west, divide american society, european society, in different... countries give rise

to various problematic issues, which precisely divide society, and the russian federation is trying to play on this, the same is happening now, that is, russia is trying. .. through a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a different tools to create a certain fund in which she wants to show that russia , for example, takes a constructive side, again, it seems that they are ready for something there, but ukraine continues to insist on their own allegedly unrealistic goals in terms of liberating the country within the borders of 91 and so on, and you accordingly pay for all this , that is, this is the logic planted by the russian federation, although the logic... it is completely different, and so is ukraine is actually ready for peace negotiations, but this is a question of a just peace, president zelenskyi has repeatedly noted this, and we communicate this with our partners, and any concessions that can be made now, including freezing

the conflict there, are the way out just now on some negotiations, these are all things that the russian dictator will perceive as weaknesses, which he will again... use against the west, against ukraine, and so on. indeed, the main task for putin now is to get some respite. he perfectly understands the complexities of domestic political cycles that are currently taking place in our partner countries, including the united states of america. in addition, they believe that for some reason it will be easier for them to work with trump, or continue to plant their certain narratives. they count on... what there are more radical parties, it will enter the elections to the european parliament, for example, or in different countries, and with the fact that precisely these ideas of isolationism, ideas that it is better to turn more problems to internal ones, to pay more attention

to internal problems, this is what which, accordingly, plays on russia, because once again the narrative fits well, that listen, well, you have a lot of other problems, so go and use these resources there, but the problem of ukraine and the war of russia against ukraine is far away from you there , our you spend accordingly on this resources, although in fact that now is happening, now russia is in a state of deep cold war with the west, this must be understood, and it is not going to stop, that is, it will try to continue its aggression, and in fact it is now waging a hybrid war against the west, and this hybrid war, as we already... know in ukraine, it has a certain dynamic and can then turn into a conventional conventional war, and this is a huge threat, and our partners are also aware of this in principle, so the issue of helping ukraine, supporting ukraine and supporting the key position of our we we stand for a just peace, this is precisely

what will prevent the russian federation from effectively continuing its hybrid war, they will have to change a lot and understand that... and the resource potential is quite large, and there is also a clear and understandable logic, this is precisely to prevent putin from talking about any successes there, because concessions are a weakness and at the same time a success, and the logic will be as follows: in particular , the russian federation's appeal to its society that, okay, we did everything right, in fact, you see, sooner or later we reached some kind of agreements, compromises and so on, then we simply did not push through, that is, we will now use this ot... pot in order to increase our potential and start a new round of aggression , that's all, and that's the logic, it's just that, it should be clear to everyone, and that's what we're putting our best efforts into in our respective diplomatic and all our contacts with

partners, so putin is not about peace at all, it's exclusively for this and that certain respite and the desire to bargain for yourself at least something so that it would be possible to show some... and justify all those actions that were carried out by russia, and this is pandora's box, this is something that will later have a very negative impact on absolutely everyone. mr. igor, in this context , i would like to ask you a lot of information about the fact that russia now has high hopes for the presidential elections in the united states, and once again they think that trump will be on their side. tell me, please, your attitude to this, what do you think, actually. what can change in ukraine in russian-ukrainian war, the victory of, say, the republican candidate? well, look, it's actually a very misleading so-and-so approach from the russians, indeed, trump has certain points that are beneficial to the russian federation, in particular, it

's his focus on isolationism, for example, yes, it's more of a focus on domestic issues, yes, this is, for example, his certain skeptical attitude to nato, more precisely to the fact that everyone should... give in, and not only the usa should take the lead and pull it all on themselves, that is, they can do it perfectly and will definitely be used, but trump, he will first of all act if... again, he will be elected there and so on in american interests, and he is unlikely to play along with putin, if you look at his previous term, which was, well, sanctions accordingly, trump imposed on nord stream-2. ukraine received javelina aid, yes, for example, it was also according to trump’s cadence, so everything is not so simple here, but from the point of view of trump’s approach to foreign policy and in terms of the fact that he skeptical... regards the leadership and the costs, respectively, that have to be borne by the russian, i apologize, the united states

of america, this is something that plays into their hands, so only from this position, i think that they are coming out, but on the other hand, well, let's not forget that there are no discussions in the united states about whether to provide aid to ukraine or not, the discussion there is about the fact that the negotiations on the issue are electorally attractive. for republicans, this is precisely the issue of the border, respectively with mexico, revision of the migration policy, but there is a bipartisan consensus that ukraine needs to be helped unequivocally, and there is such a position of the dept., it is stated, in particular, in the strategic documents of america, that the security of the united states, it begins with the security of its allies and, accordingly, partners, and this approach is also fundamental, and it is unlikely that trump will be able to revise it somehow. uh, of course, he has a certain rhetoric at the time, which is determined in particular by, well, the electoral cycle, and

by the moods that exist, and on which he tries to play accordingly in order to to gain more supporters, but again, being in the white house, and being immersed in all these processes directly, where you are responsible for how you will act and what it will lead to and how it will turn out in your country, it's all that that... that will often change, you and i have already seen the situation many times when many politicians in other countries, in particular in the european union, were quite radical, eurosceptic and so on, but when they came to power, then they changed their approach, changed theirs rhetoric, perfectly understanding the consequences , accordingly, it can have, so it seems to me that something like this can happen on the condition

that when... on the part of russia, or rather in the context of the usa, and with this putin is simply trying to explain the actions they are taking now and say that, okay, now they are helping, but wait, wait, now, that means there will be changes there, there will be a new the president, but look to his such a statement, look at such a statement and... he will certainly somehow influence this process, but this process is much deeper, and such an understanding seems to me to be superficial. yes, we also wanted to discuss another important topic of this year, and in general, our movement to europe for european integration. during 2023, the verkhovna rada adopted a number of strategically important laws, the most important of which was the package of european integration documents necessary to confirm ukraine's status as a candidate. member states of the eu. thanks to this, the european union officially started negotiations with ukraine on accession. parliamentarians

significantly strengthened the anti-corruption vertical. in particular, the state of naboo was expanded and the powers of the sap and nazk were increased. 18 laws adopted by the council were related to the strengthening of the social sphere, protection of the rights of military personnel, veterans, women, labor migrants, etc. the council paid special attention to strengthening the country's defense capabilities. yes, in the 2024 budget. a record sum of uah 1.690 billion has been invested in security and the military-industrial complex. in addition , the parliament banned surcharges military personnel and transferred the tax on the incomes of military individuals from local budgets to the state budget, and these funds will go to the production of weapons and drones. well, we can see that a lot of work has been done, but it is interesting to talk, mr. igor, about what we still need to do on the way to europe, and in general to beat certain things. so to speak , the european results of the year, what are our victories in your opinion, what are the prospects for everything that happened

this year, it opens up for us, well, it is definitely a very important decision, a historic decision, it is the beginning of negotiations with ukraine, from the of the european union, in terms of membership, this is what we were striving for, and here we moved quite quickly, yes, because a year ago we became a candidate country for joining the european union, and today we already... we have to open negotiations, now the negotiation framework is being prepared, which will establish relevant guidelines, principles for the next... changes, then we will have an international conference, as well as a screening of legislation, by the way, ukraine is one of the few countries that conducted a self-screening, that is, of our legislation, yes, that is, we already understand some issues, how we need

to work them out accordingly, and what changes we already have to prepare, further work awaits us. within six clusters and 35 chapters that include, yes, that is, those, let's say, areas, yes, in which there should be compliance of ukraine with respect to european relevant legislation, european approaches, european union principles and so on, yes, that is, it is exactly those are the integration norms, yes, with which we have to respond, and this is definitely a question negotiations, because... we have our own peculiarities, we have our own wishes and interests, so we will also defend them precisely within the limits of these victories, and for us next year the key thing will be precisely this formation of the negotiation framework, its for approval and further movement within the limits of the changes that we have to make. to date, we have a high degree of support from our

european partners, this can be seen from the statements of charles michel, kursula fondelein and... the leadership of the same scholz who is demonstrating, that is, germany, france and so further. certainly, there are difficult issues that we have to go through, this is the issue of, well, our integration, it happens in parallel with the changes that should take place in the european union, because it's a question of funds, it's a question of what claims ukraine, and what other countries are currently receiving, in particular also poland, for example, in the agricultural sector, here we also need to look for appropriate compromises from... and this is such a two-way movement in fact, that is, on the one hand, ukraine will implement those changes, which are necessary, on the other hand there are those tasks which are now standing, standing before the european union, what it has to implement, an important decision that we also expect, this is in terms of our european integration, the support we receive from the european union, this is

the allocation of 50 billion, and now we have a statement charles michel, that is, at the beginning of february, around one o'clock. in february, the extraordinary summit of the european union will be held, the leader of the european union, where exactly this decision will be made, it is also a certain indicator of unity and how to find solutions to the difficult problematic moments that arose there by the same hungary and the position of the corresponding orben, that is, all this also falls into the general canvas of what we have to do accordingly, what we... have to go through, but in fact here it should be noted that we are moving quite quickly, we really have the political will for those changes and the comprehensive support of society itself, that is, we have a clear goal to which we are moving accordingly, but of course we also need to understand that in order to implement everything we need time and really

quite a lot work, as in the walls of the verkhovna rada, work according to the government, well... and in many other areas. mr. igor, thank you very much for your comment, for joining our conversation, igor petrenko, a political scientist was in touch with us. ukrainian spies record the deployment of a whole series of informational and psychological propaganda operations against ukraine. therefore, citizens are warned to be careful. and among the freshest fictions of the russians, which they are actively spreading, is that they allegedly managed to shoot down four f-16 fighter jets in ukraine. we will remind that planes have not yet entered the country, and their arrival is scheduled for next year. and olena vostrova, a political psychologist, joins our conversation. congratulations, ms. elena. congratulations. glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. tell me, please, as a person who, from a professional point of view, follows all these special information operations of the russians, do you see how they

are changing at all, and what new moves are they coming up with to influence people's consciousness? well, the only novelty that appeared in them is the understanding that they do not need to invent anything more, but must actively to use those if faults, those mistakes that we make in the information space, this is probably the only thing that they have changed, and so they continue their work quite gradually, quite systematically and organized, even where it does not work, they still keep digging into one and the other. even if in the direction and sooner or later something will shoot out of them there, that is, they work very systematically, very persistently, they have a lot of funds allocated for this, and of course now they are... in anticipation of what will unfold in our country in the information space, some disputes, some conflicts, they pick up on everything and start spreading it on an incredible scale, mostly through telegram channels

and other, let's say, media platforms. and tell me, please, one of the brightest such stories, such throwaways, that you have noted for yourself over the past year? well, probably, this is... just the topic of the split between the military and political leadership of ukraine, because here they worked on such a large scale, and of course, all that we had was not all the misunderstandings that we had there in informative the spaces were published, voiced, everything, all those troubles, conflicts, they got out, and they used everything, and really we saw a whole such... company, which, by the way, does not stop, it continues, well, even now they will build on the mobilization narrative and enough funds have been allocated to demobilize and demoralize our

society, so we must prepare for a new such wave. and what do you think, ukrainian society has changed during this time, or do we continue to react sensitively to all these their discards and actually accept them at face value. well, i would say that we... are also learning and we are learning to distinguish it, and since our media works to do enlightening work, one way or another, people are slowly acquiring media literacy skills, but judging by the surveys, if you look at where people get information about the war and what is happening around them, and these are telegram channels, and mostly anonymous, then i very pessimistically said that probably not, not all of us are like that. ok with media literacy and not everything so people can to perceive and distinguish, so if we continue to rely on these anonymous telegram channels, then i think it will be very difficult for us to level this

situation with media literacy, and we need to acquire these skills and still read those sources that are official, confirmed, who are responsible for what they say and who can then be asked. you mentioned mobilization and what is now possible... the next wave of the russian pso will be precisely this topic. we understand that the topic is sensitive, and now it may be accepted soon a new bill that will make some changes to this whole story. in your opinion, today, how can we counteract information and make sure that the russians do not succeed in speculating and sowing panic on this sensitive topic. actually we have now. concentrate all your attention on starting to communicate very well with society, the ministry of defense of ukraine, the cabinet of ministers, and

the national security and defense committee, that is, those people who are the subjects of the legislative initiative, those institutions that are the subjects objects of this, those who are working on this draft law, should now go on the air, especially the airs of the united telethon, and explain to people the whole... explanatory work with what changes will be made now, because in order to prevent the development of such information operations, it is necessary quality communication without manipulation, in order to communicate directly, because there is a developer, they have resources, they are again, i repeat, the subject of a legislative initiative, so it is very correct that the committee on national security and defense, now, especially those representatives who worked the most on this law, when talking to society and talking exactly , you know, explaining what will happen, because it is important for people to hear, it is important

to understand how the state will act, what will be certain steps, regarding the mobilization of everything society, because society needs to be mobilized in its entirety, it is necessary to mobilize not only those people who will go to the army, but society in general, and i think that this will be precisely the prevention... and saving us from those ipso that have already started on russia, we can already see on theirs telegram channels, state propaganda channels, that they are already starting to promote certain statements, they are already there, for example, direct speech today, literally just before talking to you, i read in skobeeva, castrated dwarfs and people with blindness in one eye will be sent into battle , tin, well, that is, what is it, is it a throw-in, is it what will be in our space now, what is she saying? something on the russians' own experience, it's just what happens in them, what happened, and, that is, those people whom our soldiers see on

front line, actually, this is exactly the contingent that this woman is talking about. mrs. olena, i must warn you that someone from the cabinet, from the committee or from the ministry of defense should come out now and explain to people what will happen in our country with people who have disabilities, certain groups, just in simple words that can be explained. i hope that this will happen because it is really a very important process and i think it is one of the serious challenges. next year for ukraine , including information. ms. olena, i want to ask you in general, perhaps in this way the wider psychological aspect, two years of war, so people go through colossal trials, psychologically, mentally, that is , mentally and physically. in your opinion , today, in this field, in the field of mental health, what is important for the state to do so

that our people hold on, and continue to victory, and we come out of this even stronger than we were before the start of a full-scale invasion , of course, here we need the support of those horizontal organizations that already work with people, already create groups, already create programs, a bunch of my colleagues work precisely in the direction of supporting and organized to do it, structured, and here the state should assume, i would say, the role of coordinator of this process. because a lot of such psychosocial services are being developed horizontally, they are voluntary, they are free, they work there for some kind of charitable contributions, people themselves go, as if specialists, develop, they study, they consult with our foreign colleagues, but there is no coordination, therefore, the state should take on such a role coordinator, who coordinated all these initiatives and possibly started allocating

funds even for this, where necessary. and one must , of course, take care of mental health, because these experiences are very difficult, people sometimes lose hope, lose motivation, lose some image of victory, and this image must be formed very clearly in our information space, because, as sociologists say and researchers, we do not have a single formed image of victory, if we do not have it, then we do not know how to act, what are we we have to build those small steps. that will be a victory at every small step, well, we can't liberate all our territories there at once, but there are some steps that will be victorious, and this must be voiced to the people, so that people understand, yes, we passed, for example, we were invited there before the negotiations in the eu , victory, it was recorded, we are moving on, there we have overcome corruption somewhere, victory, we are moving on, that is, all this must be announced, for example, there are nato negotiations, we understand that we need security guarantees, not guarantees

just support and help, so we... have to constantly support the nato narrative also in our space, because it is the only, as the president said, and i agree with it, the only security guarantee that is effective, which is probably the strongest for us to date, and we still do not hear any such even sarcastic messages or articles or anything else, or there is some kind of communication with our partners, it happens, but it does not communicate in our space, so it is very important that we form . this is the only image of victory, and that will motivate, and it will support people, and it will, well, develop , and it will contribute to our correct perception of the same informational throws, because people with a healthy psyche, they are not vulnerable to such things, they have the ability to distinguish reality from fiction, i thank you very much ms. olena for joining our broadcast for your comment professional olena.

political psychologist, was in touch with us, i am a russian military ship, i suggest laying down your arms and surrendering, russian military ships, ukrainians and agreed. please, we still have the work of the youth, fate will smile, we will die in front of our eyes, all in a heap.