are free, please vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. next, we have the major general of the reserve of the armed forces of ukraine, the former first deputy commander of the special operations forces of the armed forces of ukraine and the former deputy secretary of the national security and defense council serhiy krivonos. mr. general, i congratulate you and thank you for joining our broadcast. good evening, glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. mr. general, first of all. you have already read and seen the bill that the government submitted about mobilization, and obviously, you already have a lot of questions and comments about this bill, because people evaluate this bill from the point of view of their interests, rights, and responsibilities, you are a combat general, you understand what it is about much more than those , who sit in the verkhovna rada of ukraine. please tell me what this bill provides... is

the system outlined in this bill correct? well, the question is that when civilians are absolutely directly far from mobilization, from the mobilization of the 14th and 22nd begin to tell and write laws, then this begins a big trouble, because people are not professionals, but for some reason think that they are already super geniuses, not just professionals, and begin to blink these... laws, and, not forgetting in this law, how to cover their srak and how to send others directly to the war, that's why i have many questions, and i 'm more than sure that there will be changes to it, and yes, even our president said that it is very good when the bill is discussed directly, but i will say so what would happen very good, if the existing law... the law on

the mobilization of mobile training was fully implemented, including by the president in the first place, i.e., if the current legislation was implemented and those laws were implemented, then perhaps it should not, should not the appearance of such a bill, about which there are a lot of questions, is absolutely true, here the question is, it was clearly understood that our law-making deputies did not read the law. in full, in addition, she did not understand how he works in life, did not communicate with the one who is on they know this and decided to make changes as they see it, but the question is that you can write 30 laws, 40, 50, 100, but if the first one that was written is not implemented, and in reality the existing law is not written enough between well, and there the main issue is that it should be carried out, because all the directly-employed are listed there.

ourselves, starting from the president, ending with the last chairman of the village council and the head of the enterprise, to whom, what, how to do, and most importantly, we see that in the existing law the military, as consumers, let's call it that , well, sorry, i won't put it another way, those who accept the results of mobilization and those who get results depending on the correct organized mobilization training, they are the very last on this list, the main task is to those who have to. and our president forms a point of view even during the conference during the discussion of issues related to the law, the new one that they will consider, that this is just the whims of the military, then i'm sorry that we have only one military fighting, i i think that the supreme commander-in-chief must also fight, directly, manage the processes, and it is written in his duties that he establishes the method, goal, tasks and deadlines for mobilization, appoints who is responsible for... no stages at which stages who

that reports, so you know, not very well, this is another manipulation to remove responsibility for the inaction of the civilian authorities in providing for the needs of the armed forces, as regards trained trained people and high-quality equipment and huge the amount of required weapons. mr. general, could this bill, which may become law, lead to reversals? effect, that is, that there will not be mobilization at the level that is planned, and there will be problems with mobilization again, some additional decisions will have to be made, further mobilization, because people will now start reading this bill on blocking cards, that they it will not be possible to alienate property if they do not appear before the military medical board, that is, whether or not it will lead to any effect then ... as it were, people will start

to leave the country somewhere, well, we already have a huge number of people fleeing the country, and for some reason the president does not pay attention to the fact that... that every month a certain number of our ukrainian population crosses the state border to the nearest countries, and this is the first poland, it's slovakia, it's hungary, it's romania, and they get refugee status there, where did these people come from, how did they get there, where are our glorious border guards looking and why do they perform their duties so unsatisfactorily. duty, so the question that concerns the formation of such a law, i see only the formation of the question, ah, the whip, the question of the gingerbread is absent at all, and the most important thing, again, well,

the war started in israel somehow untimely, and ukrainians now have something to compare with, how the leadership behaves israel to fulfill its constitutional duty to protect. of the israeli people of the israeli territory and how our leaders relate to the fulfillment of their duty, you know, there is a powerful contrast between white and red-white and black, so if in israeli in israel in general, any minister, his children, they perform their official duties in the ranks of tsakhalo, then tell me and show me how many people's elected officials actually went to fight. minimal, in general, how many of these people's elected representatives served in the armed forces or other power structures? i think, first of all, the next leadership of the country, and it will be sooner or later, because we have the issue raised until march, somehow everything is planned, and then it is not clear. so

the next leadership of the country will probably accept a law that will clearly state that only those who served in the armed forces and other power structures will have the right to hold certain positions in the civil service, then it is possible that it will change in the subconscious of those people who are responsible for the security of ukraine , because people who have never been in the army tell us about the security of ukraine, by the way, about people who have never been in the army, but they say that the military leadership of the country wants to mobilize 500,000 people at once, volodymyr zelensk says that he was approached by the military, and the military insisted on mobilizing 500,000 ukrainians. valery zaluzhnyi, the head of the armed forces of ukraine, said that the defense forces do not need a one-time mobilization of 400 or 500 thousand people. let's listen to what

zaluzhny said. in no way did i say the number 500 or 400, i am talking about the general need. and i already asked one of the girls, already said that this need, of course, is divided into certain periods, of course, that is, someone will be mobilized in the month of january, someone and even and in december, i will say that we do not talk about the fact that we need all this need now in order to give clothes, shoes, and weapons, no, that is not true at all, sir general, the mobilization reserve will obviously depend on... how the armed forces of ukraine will plan the year 2024, well, the coming months, let's say, be in strategic defense or plan an offensive, in your opinion, the father of 500 thousand that

zelenskyi talks about, this is the number of people who should be mobilized in ukraine during the 24th year, in order to carry out a rotation, if ... it was an ordinary rotation, and not because of some special law, if it was an ordinary mobilization, could the armed forces of ukraine be provided with these 500 thousand people, because it is from 30 million, there is how much 1% or 1.5%. well, first of all, we no longer have 30 million inside our state, taking into account those who left the borders, some left, some escaped illegally. way, but they have already legalized their stay there, the question is that again the authorities did not pay attention to mobilization, never did it, if they they even opened a textbook and read, and how was mobilization carried out in such

a powerful country as the united states, where even on the eve of the war, an inspection of the entire conscripted male population was conducted, and lots were drawn, and everyone knew when... to what ground point he to arrive before the start of the war, but in the case of an announcement, it has not been done in our country so far, so don't hesitate to bike, let's see how it was done in others? countries, first, secondly, what is extremely important for us, while people, even today, being in the rear of ukraine, they must engage in training, and not only under the direct leadership of general zuluzhny, the local authorities in certain regions have already organized the training of people, and there are a certain number of people who go there with pleasure, understanding that sooner or later they will have to deal with it, so ... every region, every district must have such training centers that would provide initial

military training, and this is precisely the task of the civil administration to organize, because trained resource is their task, excuse me, what i call the word resource to people, but it is directly like that, but for every trained ukrainian, there is first our ability to win in this war, and for this ukrainian to survive in this war and throw out of... the official task, because in war the level of your fantasies always comes down to the level of your training, you want to win, you want to fight successfully, you have to put more effort into yourself to become better, because there is more sweat on the training ground, less sweat, less blood on the battlefield, well, you mean the association for the promotion of the defense of ukraine, right, once in the soviet union and not only it, because it is growing in us. does not work at all, it is dead , it does not deal with it, we have a huge

number of those people who know how to teach and , regardless of how old they are, there are enough of them for initial military training , it just has to be dealt with directly, we are fighting a country, and from the point of view according to the report and the president's speeches, we have only the military at war, and the president fulfills the whims of only the military, no, it's a little wrong, the whole country is at war, and the transition depends on that... we can whether or not we win this war, we want to win, every ukrainian must give part of his time, part of his health, part of his resources to victory. mr. general, minister of defense rustam umerov, rustem umerov says that he is dissatisfied with the demonization of mobilization in ukraine. let's listen to umerov. first, you need to understand what it is. mobilization, because, unfortunately, we have demonized these processes for ourselves, we,

unfortunately, perceive that serving one's homeland is a punishment, and for me it is serving one's country, it is an honor, and this worldview things that need to be changed in general, the main message is how to enter the perimeter. for the service of your nation, the country , what will happen when you enter this military perimeter, how will we train you, how will you go to reconciliation, what will be the vacations and when will you have, how will you finish serving your country and leave from this perimeter as long as the war is going on. mr. general, i remember how in... in 2019 you talked about the fact that private military companies could be formed in ukraine, and a lot

at that time, there were military, former military personnel who could create these companies so that these companies would later develop in ukraine, is this idea of ​​returning to the idea of ​​private military companies, well, and creating parallel recruiting, that is, not just mobilization, to create private military companies that could work, because... there are such private military companies all over the world, russia does not admit that they legally have them, and ukraine could not take such a step or not? of course, she could, and sooner or later it will go for it, but even at this stage , the capacity of private military companies must be directed first of all to what we discussed with you, it is precisely to the training of people, because their quality of training, their ability to teach is much better than that , which we have. training centers, and this is a very good example, but unfortunately, for some reason, certain leaders

are not interested in private military companies training people for them, even in the united states, it is actively used, which allows saving huge state resources, in the absence of additional funding for obtaining a certain number of military... training units, when private military companies can do it on their training grounds, it must be done, it must be done, and we have time to fix it. this work, and why, why, mr. general, is this not happening? i know your story, how you were the deputy secretary of the national security council and insisted on the adoption of a bill on the creation of territorial defense, and it was about the bill 4504, i just do not

forget this number, i know that in 2019 made this draft law, then... there was some misunderstanding on the part of the new government that this should be done, right? during these five years, because it will be five years already, there was no understanding of how it should be built the defense of a modern state, especially next to such an aggressive state as russia? unfortunately , no, unfortunately, this is precisely the biggest problem, that those who... buried our draft law and did not even want to consider it, delayed their time, then pushed the presidential law and passed it, but in our draft bill we built a strong country and directly built the territorial defense of ukraine, and what was adopted according to the submission of the president

of ukraine zelenskyi, it is simply about the creation of an additional type of armed forces, it is nothing more, nothing less. completely different things, and if we tried to lay out all the bricks of the relationship between the civil and military branches, who is responsible for what and how, then the law that was adopted directly by the authorities is simply what concerns, i also said then that it concerns preparation of replenishments for front, training systems not created , national security system not created, it was so easily used for... mr. general, commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, valery zaluzhnyi spoke at a briefing about the plans of the armed forces of ukraine for the 24th year, let's hear what he said: the 24th year will not just be different, it must be different, the 24th year from the 23rd year, because

otherwise we will face what i wrote about in the article, accordingly, we... found these problems and found somewhere probably 90% of the solutions to these issues, which are absolutely necessary to decide in order to act more effectively next year and most importantly - to save people, we are working on this, our partners who are also interested in this issue absolutely agreed with us, and i can assure you that next year it will be different, sir general since we are already at the end of the 23rd year, a few words about what we can expect in the 24th year, what will this year be, we do not need to wait, we directly need to work, and the next year depends precisely on the ability of the authorities to properly organize processes, ensure the training of the population, ensure the organization, the creation of a powerful

economic system that would meet the needs of the armed forces. provide powerful fortification equipment for the area, then we can talk about success, then we can talk about keeping our territories and liberating our territories, everything depends only on us, at the moment every ukrainian, if he does not agree with any problems that exist in the state, has the right to talk about it, because this is a democratic society, the word is out of time to criticize, well, sorry , for two or two years we did not criticize that we... we have what the 23rd year can be called the year of lost opportunities, we had great potential, but due to the pr that our politicians carried out, they did not understand , how to ensure the training of the armed forces and ensure the armed forces themselves, we have what we have, we have huge problems, and this is not

a dead end situation, but we need to change a lot ourselves, first of all within our country, because... hope, purely for the help of our western partners, that's all great, but at certain points it becomes such a cold rain of disappointment that at the end of the year, the last two months we have, and certain people give up, we don't have to give up, we have time, we have the capacity, we have the potential, just it is necessary to push the authorities to perform their functional duties, which they occupy, qualitatively and... at certain moments, they simply do not know what to do, then they simply need to be prompted and forced to perform their duties. thank you, mr. general, it was a general of the armed forces of ukraine, serhii kryvonos. friends, we work live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those who are currently watching us on these platforms, please like this video and subscribe on these

platforms, and remember that we always have a poll every night, today we ask you this: does ukraine need a single telethon ? yes, no, please, if you watch us on youtube, everything is very simple, you can vote with two buttons, yes, no, or write: write your option in comments under this video, if you watch us on tv, you can pick up the phone and vote if you think that ukraine needs a single telethon 0800 211 381 or 0800 2011 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free, vote, we at the end of the program, we will sum up the results of this vote, then we will be in touch with the executive director of the institute of education. politician evgeny magda. mr. yevgeny, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. congratulations, mr. serhiy, glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. let's start with

mobilization 2024, because this topic has been the topic of discussion for the last two days, well, among ukrainians, among the military, and among politicians. how do you feel about legislation? of the government, because it is presented precisely as legislative initiatives of the government, well, i think that this is such, you know, a complex issue, it resembles a napoleon cake, which is basically smeared with cream from our national interests, national interests in victory, we are in the 23rd year, in fact farewell to illusions of completion. war in two or three weeks or even in 2-3 months, this must be understood as well it is necessary to realize, therefore, various efforts will be required from us, including

next year, it will not only be mobilization, it will be the transition of the economy to military rails, it will be sequestration of the budget, judging by everything, but returning to your question, i will say that the responsibility... for mobilization lies largely with the president. in any case, the legislation provides that he signs the relevant decision. what happened to us during the last weeks resembles, you know, such information manipulation. with on the one hand, a well-known parliamentarian with the surname b. for example, i threw a thesis into the information space. that women will be mobilized, this is not true, it was not even discussed, as far as i know, then the president denied it, although in fact the topic

of women's mobilization was actively picked up by russian propaganda, and why was it twisted, i don't at all understand. now the government has introduced a bill on mobilization, but from the comments we are hearing today, we can hear that there is no known. where to get money it is not known where to get resources, well, somehow , you know, this does not greatly encourage our fellow citizens, it does not mean that people will refuse, no, but the law on mobilization, its adoption is the direct responsibility of the verkhovna rada, and let me remind you that in the verkhovna rada since 2019, there is a parliamentary majority. by the servant of the people party, that is , the party in power itself, in principle, if necessary, can make the necessary decision, and why, and

why do you think the supreme commander distances himself, this is an uncomfortable question, it can affect the rating, it can cause dissatisfaction of the people, and the supreme commander does not want to take responsibility, although according to the law he really forms all the documents that are necessary. for mobilization, including signing them. i think that both volodymyr zelenskyi and his entourage are thinking about the next election. and it would be much better if all of us and our leaders thought first of all about victory. because there will be no elections before victory, and this should be mentioned. i'm just thinking back to a few months ago. senator linzey graham came to us and declared that ukraine should hold elections, how everyone ran around it and started talking, yes, elections, of course

we have to hold elections, i... but we have no elections, nothing can happen without elections, in fact, even 10 years after the revolution of dignity, the ukrainian authorities should have learned to answer even our partners and sponsors with dignity in certain issues and to remind them that elections should be held in conditions where 20% of the territory has been lost, millions of people have gone abroad and it is not a fact that they will return quickly, electoral registers... not in all areas absolutely exist, it is safe voting, perhaps far from everywhere , well, there are few factors for conducting elections, but the factors for conducting mobilization are obvious, because without replenishment and, well, if you like, without fresh blood for the defense forces, it will be more difficult for our defenders, so this is a normal

process, that is, this confirmation from the words of those people who said that everyone will have to fight in one way or another, and this is confirmation that there should be not just a discussion within society about who and how to mobilize, but a powerful information campaign, motivational videos about signing up to the ranks of the armed forces, recruiting, in principle it would be good if the actual... training system changed to a certain extent, because we can see that in the 23rd year the ukrainian armed forces received a lot of information about how to fight against the russians, to fight without, well, i would say large-scale successes, but to say that the ukrainian defense forces have failed, i think we have no reason, because simply

the war will pass... into another phase, when in the first half of the 23rd year, the counteroffensive lived with their separate informational life, the russians at that time were preparing for defense, strengthening their own positions, and we got, unfortunately, what we got. i think that there should be mobilization through information support of various kinds. people who came to the defense of ukraine, if there is andrii khlyvnyuk, who started fighting for ukraine from the first days, if there is taras topolya, if there are other stars or well-known people, why not broadcast their experiences, why not show the experiences of people who became for the protection of the oboro, for the protection of ukraine and they do it

as efficiently as possible, this is... the only correct one at the moment, because, as i understand it, we do not have the opportunity for material stimulation of mobilization, mr. yevgeny , you are talking about the information component of mobilization, we are all watching what is happening in the last two days in the information space, in social networks, and it is obvious, it is obvious that on december 25... this was announced and shown the draft law obviously shows that this is simply a communication failure, because submitting this draft law and telling people: well, listen, go, look at this draft law there without any explanations, without any extra preparation, without any comments there about that, listen, well , there is a part about people who... are now living

abroad, because some people fled, some people live because they have family circumstances, why they ended up there with children, there with the disabled, with family members, everyone in principle, everyone is at risk that their cards will be blocked there, it will not be possible to get a new passport, as a result, people went to stand in queues at checkpoints abroad in order to quickly change their passports, why in your opinion, this is the government... which, in principle, understands it very well such information technologies and how it should be presented, why did she not take this component into account, especially with such a large resource as an informational telethon, a huge telethon, so that people perceive it as part of life, not as part of a threat to themselves .