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weekday from 20 to 22 at espresso. information day of the tv channel in rospal. dmytro zabavin, a deputy of the mariupol city council, will be in touch with us now. well, let's start our conversation. from extremely important news from more than 200 ukrainians were returned from russian captivity. among them are defenders of mariupol and azovstal, soldiers of the armed forces of the national guard, civilian sailors and policemen. i am quoting the office now. the president was held captive by the enemy , civilian teachers, as well as a policeman who remained in mariupol until the end, delivering humanitarian aid to people. glory to ukraine, mr. dmytro, congratulations, glory, good day. well, we would like to ask you, as a mariupol resident, for a relevant comment, perhaps you have additional information about those people who continue to be in russian prisoners, in particular, it refers to captured ukrainian soldiers and civilians. unfortunately...

thousands of defenders of mariupol, defenders of ukraine, who courageously defended our country from the enemy, and who defended the city of mariupol to the last cartridge, continue to be in russian captivity, and the russians, why do they treat the azov fighters so harshly, why do they those who are yours... such resistance, because for the russians and personally for putin, this was mariupol, it was a personal defeat, because for a long time they could not to take the city of mariupol, and they did not expect such resistance from our courageous defenders, and therefore, strictly speaking, now the russians are creating extremely difficult conditions for them in captivity, these are just some kind of torture chambers. and

accordingly, unfortunately, many more of our defenders, including police officers who were also captured in polon, are in russian, continue their stay in russian captivity, and simply, when you look at the condition in which our defenders return, simply tears are coming, it's simple. or how did these russian monsters treat them? mr. dmytro, these days there is a lot of information about the exhibition about mariupol in italy, i don't know if you have already heard about this information, i will briefly remind you and perhaps our viewers that there is a conference exhibition in the city of modena the russians are going to do mariupol after the war, and the italian authorities currently look like they are allowing it to be carried out. well, at least at the moment there is no

information about the cancellation of this exhibition, but we understand that it is absolute cynicism to talk about the revival of the city after the war, which the russians simply destroyed it to incredible ruins, and i would like to hear your reaction to this, to what extent, in general, this information is new to you, and whether there will be any possible reaction from the mariupol city council, perhaps there will be some specific letter. a request to the italian authorities to not allow this exhibition after all, regarding the position of the executive committee of the city council, they have not yet voiced it, and regarding the position of the people of mariupol in social networks, information is already spreading, an appeal to the people of mariupol for those who left for italy if possible in this country, eh... to show

public activity to prevent this event, because it is really being prepared there with the official representative of the consulate. the country of the terrorist, and accordingly the information we received about what they will say there are suto-russian narratives, purely terrorist, all the narratives that are inherent in the country of the terrorist russia, and accordingly they talk about the fact that mariupol allegedly spent eight... well there in general, even the people of mariupol can't comment on it somehow, because there it is so absurd that mariupol was under ukrainian occupation for eight years, that is

, such things as the people of mariupol were abused there, but we all understand that the russians simply destroyed our city, killed thousands of ukrainians in the city, and look, we are with you we agree, we all know it , we talked to those people, we saw the footage, we know the whole tragedy of the situation, but why is this or that italian story possible as such at all, well, that is , in ukraine they would not have the opportunity, so maybe someone is underworking , or perhaps some passivity on the part. among italians, i don't know the italian government there, why are such things possible in general? look, i think that the ministry of foreign affairs of ukraine should respond to this challenge, that is, when such moments appear, because this is really a matter of national

security, and this is an issue, and the society of mariupol residents, as such, are calm residents of mariupol, who did not want , for example, to remain under occupation... left, i.e. maybe they would take the appropriate initiative, we understand that diplomatic institutions are one thing, but the victims of russian, you know, strikes on civilian objects, it's completely different, that is , i don't know, them, but imagine, well, in germany, for example, one or another nazi group would not allow themselves to do some i don't know, a propaganda action similar to the one that russian propagandists want to hold in italy, so from... accordingly, i already said that the people of mariupol on social networks prepared for this issue and appealed to those who are now in mariupol in italy, therefore that, unfortunately, the people of mariupol are scattered all over the world, and i will repeat what i always repeat,

that more than half of the people of mariupol left the city, not accepting the russian occupation, that is, accordingly, the people of mariupol rallied and held... repeatedly rallies against the actions of the russians and against so so-called referendums, which were also held against all other crimes committed by the russians, including in relation to reconciliation with prisoners of war, the relatives of defenders who are in captivity, who defended azostal, are constantly holding rallies. mariupol, and accordingly , the people of mariupol will not leave this situation either, because for us it is a matter of principle that they destroyed our ukrainian city, killed ukrainians, and accordingly, they are now trying to turn this situation upside down in order to show their

russian narratives. and finally, very briefly, because we have a few minutes, and putin ordered,... ordered such educational activities to be held on the territory of mariupol next year, and they plan to educate children by showing video recordings of meetings between the russian dictator and international criminal putin with students, well, actually, they plan to teach the children of mariupol everything that russian propaganda teaches, do you know anything about their intentions and, in general, is there any opposition to this from the people who are now left in the city? so see in mariupol. there are no schools at all, there are propaganda centers, i call them that, that is, where , unfortunately, the information you mentioned is put into the heads of children, and this has been happening since the 22nd year, since the beginning

of the russian occupation, that is , such so-called lessons are constantly held patriotic upbringing, and if some children do not... go to these lessons, then they call their parents and threaten them that their parentage will be taken away from them, that is, imagine in which there... in repressive methods, this all happens, and it begins from kindergartens, where children are dressed in this military uniform, then there are schools, where they show the so-called young guard come here with these video tapes, and accordingly it continues, so to speak, they are already fixed on the students, where they also arrange such there are movie screenings. and this is all part of these of the narratives of this russian propaganda,

this is a major part of the so-called educational process that takes place during the occupation period in the temporarily occupied territories, and the directors of the so-called schools, kindergartens, they report on these events, regarding who was there, who was not, well, that is . there is also total control in this regard. thank you, thank you. dmytro zabavin, a member of the mariupol city council, was in touch with us. now there is a short pause, after which we continue to talk about the most important things. wait. attention - an incredible novelty from unpacking super warm and very comfortable alaska style boots. perfect fit, water-repellent material and a feeling of warmth even in 30-degree frost. alaska stayle boots have a versatile design and practical black color, so they will suit both

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myroslav marynovich is 75 years old today. and we , together with marta liyarnyk, sincerely congratulate him and wish him longevity, strength of spirit and all sorts of good things, well, in his far from simple life, and now we offer you to watch a small story about this outstanding , without exaggeration, person, see together, after that we talk about the phenomenon of dissidence, well, maybe even a slightly unpopular type leadership, because it's not about successful success, it's about people... who very often took the other side, which was not popular, which was not mainstream, but which rested on its certain values ​​and beliefs. myroslav marynovich's painful encounter with the totalitarian system began in his university days. in 1970, following a classmate's denunciation of criticism of the soviet

government, he was summoned to the kgb, and his career in the komsomol ended with the fact that... miroslav was instructed to hold a meeting regarding the expulsion of a boy who took a church marriage. majority participants, like marynovich himself, voted against, he was asked that if you are not with us, then you are against, then you are against us. he said, "yeah, well, i'm against you then." and having said this word, he takes a certain position, which he adheres to. and marynovich's word in these and similar cases was always balanced, but it was always honest. on november 9 , 1976, in lviv, mykola rudenko created the ukrainian helsinki group, the first human rights organization in ukraine, which documented and transmitted to the west the facts of communist crimes against human rights. included 10 founding members, the youngest of them myroslav marynovych and mykola matusevych. miroslav was then 28 years old. and we go with

mykola, we consult, on the one hand, you understand. that sooner or later it will be an arrest, because at that time it was unimaginable to imagine that the authorities would tolerate some self-proclaimed rights groups, on the other hand, we are young guys, we want to respect ourselves. marynovich was not hired, he was harassed, regular searches were conducted at the homes of relatives and friends. in march 1977, marynovich and... at the memorial dinner taras shevchenko at the kyiv philharmonic unexpectedly left the stage and was called to sing a testament. they were arrested and later sentenced for anti-soviet agitation to seven years in prison and five years of exile. under severe trials, marinovich not only wrote the gospel of the fool, but also

crystallized his principles and worldview. all those sufferings that... i had to go through, they did not break me, on the contrary, somehow spiritually elevated me, i consider it a huge gift from the lord god. myroslav marynovych returned home in 1987 year in exactly 10 years, he founded and headed the institute of religion and society at the lviv theological academy, which in 2002 became a ukrainian catholic university. from then until now, myroslav marynovich gathers around him hundreds of young activists who consider him a moral authority. such people perform an invaluable mission in the soup. especially in a young society that is building and defending its statehood, like ukraine. myroslav myranovych, as one of the founders of the december 1 initiative, always

advocated that the ukrainian people understood what spiritual values ​​are, how these spiritual values ​​should protect our people, move them to europe. i, for example, would be very worried whether we, those who were close to him, would be able to occupy such a place. position to play such a role that he played in our lives, it is a very big challenge and a very big responsibility. well, thank you natalya old law for this extremely important story, and we are adding to our marathon radomir mokryk, historian, cultural researcher, researcher at the institute of east european studies at the philosophical faculty of charles university in prague, author of the book revolt against the empire, ukrainian sixties. glory to ukraine radomyra, we congratulate you. glory to the heroes, congratulations. the phenomenon of 60. and the phenomenon of marynovich, well, in the face of a full-scale russian invasion, when the russians killed tens of thousands of ukrainians, we

still talk about the phenomenon of the six- hundred-year-old, the six-hundred-year-old, as for me, as for me, well, the most important thing is that during a complete in such complete darkness were the people who challenged the empire, you know, they are hers they won, even though it was overkill. but it is not easy, so we would like to ask you about it, really , i think that first of all it is necessary to understand that the phenomenon of sixties and dissidence is primarily an ethical phenomenon, yes, that is, when we talk about the pro-sixties, about the right-wing movement, it combined very, very different people, in fact, with different ideas, from nationalists to some... supporters of reforming the soviet union, but it was a movement for human dignity, for national dignity, and

these were people who actually became signposts, which should be signposts to my deep conviction in today's ukraine as well. in the end, i am convinced that their role in the actual achievement of independence is invaluable, yes, because in fact already in... the environment of the 1960s, these ideas were born that the soviet system is hostile, that it is necessary to fight against it, and later concrete tools such as to do, so from some political ideas to, for example, the ukrainian geltsin group, the foundations of which were co-founded by mr. myroslav marynovych, that's it after all, it was these people who played a direct role in the fall of the soviet union, that is, in my opinion, their role. more than significant. mr. radomir, today the family of myroslav marynovich celebrates

his 75th birthday, and i want to quote him here, he spoke about himself: i am neither a politician nor a diplomat, i belong to ukrainian civil society. in soviet times, as a prisoner of conscience, i chose values ​​over personal safety, and i am convinced of the correctness of this position throughout my life. one who prefers. security, sacrificing values, in the end loses both, and in fact, these words are a little prophetic now, because many ukrainians, probably now, too, are faced with certain considerations about whether they should go and defend their own the state, or should this duty fall on someone else? i would like to ask you how much you think these words and, in principle, the values ​​of myroslav marynovich can now rely on the current situation in ukraine, and can we hope that a new generation of such people

can be among those who are now, for example, at the front, young people who, for example, are now protecting our state with their lives, without a doubt, because the logic of the dissident movement, the logic of all communities, is like a ukrainian group. and some other initiatives, it always consisted in the ethics of solidarity, in the ethics of mutual support and precisely self-sacrifice for the sake of the community, yes, because , for example, what was discussed in the plot, so that there 10 people organized an agent group, well, it was clear that they would not, they would not destroy the union with this, yes, but they understood that the defense of human rights is something that benefits everyone. that is, this is actually about this solidarity and self-sacrifice, that is, in the end, in my deep conviction, this is the ethics of the dissidents, it...

also broke out in the ukrainian maidans, because ukrainian protests have been around since independence, they very often critically resonated with the dissident movement, because these are also protests and willingness to sacrifice for the sake, for the sake of the community, yes for the sake of values, and the same we are observing now, when many people are actually ready to make sacrifices for the sake of the community, that is, this logic of the dissident movement, in my opinion, is very clearly reflected in ukraine, at least in these communities of ukrainian civil society already independence to this day. radomir, i would like to ask you, what impressed you personally the most in the lives of our dissidents ? uh, well, you know, here...

it's really, really hard to find any a specific flashback , you know, it happens that you study some documents, work with them, and here and there, and you understand, somehow it covers, well, if we talk, for example, about the geltsyn group, actually, it is that a situation when, when myroslav marynovich joins the dissident movement at a very young age, eh, i had the opportunity to communicate with many dissidents, and i was interested in all of them precisely the motivation, yes, because... they all emphasized, and this is actually there were also the words of mr. myroslav, about the fact that they had no doubt that there will be an arrest, that there will be imprisonment, yes, and that it will not give results right now, this is very important, yes, that is, what is guided by a person who is not yet 30 years old, she signs up for some human rights adventure, realizing that there will be no concrete effect, er

, that they will be jailed, and yet she does it, here is this, here is this ethical nerve, yes, it is actually colossal, and mr. myroslav once even told , that already after the arrest, yes, here he was, he was taken in this, in this car, for for prisoners, and he looked out the window, at kyiv, and, and at some point he felt terribly sorry, so, that... er, well, nothing has changed, yes, that is, they are taking me, i arrested, obviously, i have years and years of camps, exile ahead of me, but here are the people, through this window, here they both lived and are still living, and here is the thing that at such a moment you can not despair, nevertheless continue exactly exactly this line and feel right, simply because you, again, as mr. myroslav said, that the most important thing is to feel

yourself... on the right side of history, but for you have to have this, well, some incredible internal ethics, in order to follow, despite everything, to follow these beliefs, and i have met many dissidents, mr. myroslav, you have not outlined this very clearly, and this, well, it is impressive, it is actually impressive, thank you very much, mr. radomyra , radomir, mokrik, historian, culturologist, author of an extremely important study about the ukrainian 600s , the ukrainian 600s were against the empire, well, congratulating myroslav marynovich on his, so to speak, powerful, yet another anniversary, 75 years, well to joke with jokes is an extremely great achievement for any person, that is, to do as much as myroslav morynovich does, it is extremely important, and speaking of certain things that struck me, that is, myroslav marynovich, when he was already brought into the camp, then the prosecutor or the investigator asked him if he was on trial.

or somehow already there he acquired the status of a prisoner, what is your goal, to which myroslav myrynovych replied: don't get angry. this is extremely important. well, it's time for news at spressa, so we'll pass the floor to iryna koval, who together with the news editor prepared a fresh issue. so iro, we'll give you the floor, and tell us what we're going to talk about now. marta, thank you, how about we always talk about the situation in different regions of our country, is there? killed and wounded, unfortunately, this is the current situation in ukraine, because we have a war going on, and about all the details, wait, i will tell you literally in a few seconds.