it is important not only not to overestimate, it is also important to understand correctly, and i have a rather serious conclusion that russia is not understood more in ukraine than even in those countries that have never been part of a single state body together with russia, it confuses me , because since the russians are not ready to understand russia, because they consider ukraine, because they consider it an extension of the russian civilizational organism, and every time... they meet with a different development of the situation, they think that these are some wrong ukrainians, which simply need to be destroyed, all the other correct ones do not draw any conclusions, they simply believe that some people who are on the payroll of the department have been selected, or even are supporters of some nazi ideology there, as vladimir putin says, and if ukraine is cleansed of all these people, then all the others will be the same russians, as all russians are loyal to the kremlin, just like ukrainians, i believe. that russians cannot be

different, and every time i meet proof that everything is happening in russia completely different than in ukraine, they just fall into the mortar, so i will repeat myself a little, in one of the interviews, but from the printed, not televised, interview, i somehow, just thinking about it, said that the fact that ukraine is not ... we know russia and we won it, but we are surprised to discover that russia is not ukraine, that is, we are surprised by russia, because to a certain extent we also impose our way of thinking, our mentality on them, we would never started this war, and we would never conduct it in the way that russia conducts, well, that's what valery says all right, but i was surprised that russia didn't stop it. when such a large number

of victims, yes, yes, yes, yes, and from this point of view, and here i will, so to speak, pull the blanket over myself already institutionally, in fact, what we need in ukraine is a rethinking of russia, we need in fact, decent russian studios, because we, we, make the same mistakes that the russians make, who do not... they investigate us, they do not study us, and we have the same situation, this may be an unpopular opinion, when the main trend now in ukraine about the fact that we need to cancel everything russian, but we need knowledge about russia, without this, without knowledge and awareness, not only of our largest neighbor, the most aggressive and deadly neighbor, well, our future looks very sad. i want

to support you, mr. serhiy, because i believe that this idea, to cancel, so to speak, russia, is a trend of resentment and deep contempt, which is connected with russian victims on the territory of ukraine. however, if ukraine at all wants to survive as a sovereign state, even more so, if ukrainians want to survive on their territories as a people, because this is also an open question in history, now that we see all the parts, and a long struggle, we should know russia better than the russians themselves, but... we read the history of russia in the interpretation of the conditional karamzin, in the interpretation conditional solovyov, now in the interpretation of the conditional. you wrote ukrainian history. hrytsak wrote history, his interpretation of the history of ukraine. we know that ukrainian civilization itself began there with the way hrushevsky saw the history of ukraine, then. were was

the famous textbook of subtelnogo, you can list it, list the ukrainian historians who wrote the history of ukraine, which differs from its russian version. question number one. and which of the ukrainian historians wrote the history of russia? where is she? i think that this is an absolutely urgent, urgent task. i also thought about the example of the poles, who have a lot to... learn from, but they have such a world-renowned history of russia was created by richard pipes, an émigré, a jewish émigré from poland, of interwar poland , the origin of his father was from lviv, from galicia, which became not one, but one of the most powerful and determined, and we have this task ahead of us, i remember

the words in the mid-30 in the 1990s, the minister, or, i apologize, the people's commissar of foreign affairs litvinov, who wrote in a letter to a colleague that... the west, when it talks about the soviet union, does not understand anything. poles understand, but they understand too well. here we have to find ourselves in the situation of the poles , who understand russia too well, that much it's okay for them to be uncomfortable, that's the idea. well, there is an important point here, if you mentioned richard pipes, i suddenly remembered one of his theses, about russia, theses, which , by the way, he could write after he had been to the soviet union many times. he said that, in his opinion, russians very often lie simply out of love for art. they lie for the sake of lying, because lying itself is a part of life and a part of survival, and it seems to me that here too

the russians do not really understand the ukrainians, because if a ukrainian lies, he lies for some purpose, he has a goal, thanks to which he wants to hide or sleep. or distort information, and the russians can lie just like that, a person who has never lived in russia, i lived in russia, for many decades, i can confirm this thesis of pipes, she will never understand this, whenever she is deceived , deceived, they will look for the purpose of why she was deceived, and she was deceived just like that, and this is the same mental difference that is important, and it is very important for me to understand how much ukrainians will be aware of how much these two civilizations, which have been together for so long, are actually different, so, that is, the question, the question, i think, is also connected here with the empire and - a certain form of the empire, in which,

let's say, byzantium is talked about, sometimes we are talking about the east, where in fact the truth is surrounded by many, many falsehoods, that is... and this, it became, it became a cultural code. pipes also very interestingly turned out to be surkov's favorite historian. because pipes, even in the 90s, when everyone admired the fact that today, tomorrow russia will become full democratic, pipes said, as a historian, that it is simply impossible, that historically, historical, so to speak, cultural dna. the genotype is precisely associated with authoritarian power, and sorkov, who welcomed pipes in moscow and showed russian translations of his books, said that he understood russia, because for surkov and for the people around putin it was also the legitimation of their authoritarian

rule, but however pipes was used, it is clear that he understood many things that his colleagues did not, and this understanding. was related, i would say, in first of all, with the experience of polish history, because poles and eastern europeans were looked at as outsiders in the 90s, when they were knocking on the door of nato and asking to let us in, which means, well, they looked like some kind of urban fanatics, but today, today we know pretty, pretty well that they were right, and those who didn't were very, very wrong. i recall the words of zbigniew brzezynski at one of the conferences devoted to nato and the expansion of nato, which was a controversial topic in the united states of america, he said then, it was about 10 years ago, he said that if this

had not happened, today we would have discussions in the united states of america not about ukraine, but about poland, so this is this this is this experience we get it, we get it at a very heavy price, but it cannot be let go, and self-awareness, understanding of the enemy, and the way to the future must be built on it. well, this is an important question, because if you talk to the average ukrainian about the future course of events, at least this year, you are bound to hear from many that russia will fall apart several parts, by the way, the president also spoke about it. of the russian federation , vladimir putin as one of the measures against russia just at the end of the year, he mentioned it, because this is another conspiracy theory, i would say , the theory that the russians adhere to in order to justify their aggressive actions, and we

adhere to it on the contrary, and that putin he will die there, his regime will self-destruct, and everything will be fine, but there is another question, and are the ukrainians themselves ready for a long-term neighborhood? with a strong, aggressive, tough russia that will be part of this world of dictatorships if you want, to partners or an equal partner or rather a geopolitical neighborhood of china. do ukrainians understand that it is with such a russia, which will surpass ukraine many times over in terms of demographic potential, economic capabilities, and possibly military power, that ukrainians will have to live with, perhaps most fundamentally for the survival of our state for ten years, and that they are ready to ensure that this neighborhood does not lead to the disappearance of ukraine from the political map of the world? this, this is the reality for which you have to prepare and... you have to adjust, miracles happen, especially in authoritarian and personalistic regimes, because

there biology, biology is the biggest, most important factor, but counting on a miracle absolutely would be the biggest mistake, in fact it would be suicidal, that is, a suicidal strategy and tactic. it is up to us , we must learn to live in these, in these new conditions, of course, and plan, plan not only for the next, next month or next year, for the next decades, a strategy must be developed, tomorrow really can be another beauty, there may be some extremely serious changes in moscow, but we need... the reality, which was actually understood by the same richard pipes, that

authoritarian systems, and aggressive systems, imperialist systems, do not change in a day or one week, they change, but this is a very long process that can take decades, and this is the strategy that must be developed in ukraine, regardless of who is in the kremlin today and whether this... tic is actually genocidal in relation to ukraine , does a new yeltsin or navalny suddenly appear on a white horse, that is, we are dealing with a historical empire with certain codes of behavior and cultural codes, and all of them, all of them, these codes are aggressive and threatening, threatening to the neighbors, that's it history of centuries. we certainly hope that one way or another we will become part of the event, become

part of nato, become members of the european union, and there are certain obvious developments about this, because as early as next year , negotiations on ukraine's accession to the european union may begin union, a lot of hope for the washington nato summit, along with this, we heard this year from the president of the united states, joseph biden, when he met with the president of ukraine, volodymyr zelenskyi, that the condition for ukraine's entry into... dad is ukraine's victory over russia, and that is important a moment that says that ukraine can remain between the west and russia for quite a long time. this is dangerous for us, but the question arises, how should we behave in a situation when the continuation of russian aggression in one way or another into ukraine uncertain periods, in the gray zone, what should we do in this gray zone? i am sure that ukraine's accession to nato will happen, i

also cannot imagine a situation in which this accession will take place in the conditions of a war with russia, well, that is the reality, i also do not really understand high hopes and then disappointment, promise us that or promise us something else, because well... a penny is a penny for the joy of fools, that is, presidents change, politicians change, we had promises with the budapest protocol and the summit, that is, i do not understand, why build a real policy, or at least an information policy, on this, we are going to nato, to nato, we will not join formally until this war is over. so, when this war will end, we do not know. and the model, the model should be, well , conventionally speaking, the model of israel, that is, very, very

serious, eh, or the same taiwan, that is , the continuation and deepening, eh, of relations with our allies, and eh, what was interesting last year , it means that europe, which in the 22nd year was somewhere behind the united states... of the united states, suddenly acquired its own subjectivity and precisely pro-ukrainian subjectivity, so that europe is, it has become an even greater factor than it was in in the 22nd year, this, this is ours, this is the strategy that exists today, which must be developed, which must be deepened, and again, we saw in this year the harmfulness, the harmfulness of unjustified expectations, and how much they hit the moral status

of society, how harmful they can be in war, and in this sense. realism, realism is our salvation, realism in relation to ideas, perspectives, v including when it comes to nato. and tell me, you mentioned the israeli model, but 2023 was just the year, i told you to the disappointment of many in the israeli model, mr. sergey, because by and large everyone always believed that the state of israel is a state that can definitely guarantee security for its citizens, if we are talking about, well, at least about... drugs with terrorist organizations that control the lands of the palestinian authority, and what from this, which may one day appear, or may never appear, a palestinian state, go some a serious danger for the state of israel, well , rocket attacks, yes, there are some threats from terrorists, yes, there are some captures of military personnel, but in fact, the

fact that the bandit organization hamas has not only changed, but also failed. such a raid on the territory of israel, and besides , enjoys obvious sympathy in wide intellectual and public circles of the civilized world, where, as if they remembered their nazi past, no one could even suspect this at the end of the 22nd year. in war, as in war, allies do not withdraw the status of war as such and the dangers of the risks that come with it. and israel is just one more visual proof of this, but it is about the fact that none of israel's allies, allies of israel has backed away from israel, we in ukraine started talking about the fact that we are now standing in line for the same military equipment, weapons

and so on, for the united states of america, which is needed in the middle east and for israel. and this is precisely this strength of these alliances, this is what i had in mind, but neighbors, neighbors, no alliances can be annulled they can, and aggressive alliances, aggressive neighbors, terrorist neighbors and so on, that is, it remains, it remains in the longer term, it is said, it is about the international community. support is not only moral, that is, it is morally there in different places , as you said, but very practical, military, economic, this is what israel can achieve without nato, and i think that this model is an intermediate for us until when we will not join nato. you know, the war in

the middle east unexpectedly revealed trends that were not revealed by the war in ukraine, it is, on the one hand, bankruptcy. intellectual circles in the west, and this is not the first time this has happened, but it has now happened with all the obviousness and in those american universities that you know so well, now there is an obvious crisis of morality, and on the other hand there is the so-called right march, the strengthening of right-wing tendencies in in western countries, primarily in europe, just as for many people who are now ready to vote for right-wing parties, october 7 was the day when, as they themselves say, their eyes were opened and obviously... not only to the actions of terrorists from hamas, but also on how the right-wing parties perceived migration in europe, and these seem to me to be two very dangerous trends, which are yet to be seen, how they will end for help to ukraine and , in general, for stability on the european continent, and maybe in the united states as well ? well, there are several factors that

are really changing the world, one of them is migration, so from the conventional third world to the first world, migration, refugees have become an extremely important factor that changes the political, political situation in europe, it also changes the political situation in the united states of the united states of america, and a large number, a large number of these refugees are just from the middle east, there are just potentially those who may be... are not, but may either be supporters of hamas, or or mean to be enemies not only of israel, but simply have , to have against, against the west... western anti-western sentiments, this is one of the main topics in politics, world politics of the first world, during the last, probably 10-15 years, and we now

see, that is, very specific consequences in the conditions of a specific foreign policy crises, another factor, we like to talk about it, but as a metaphor, about the information revolution, but the information revolution... just like the industrial revolution, it comes with social changes, with political changes, with the emergence, the emergence of new parties, new ideologies. the information revolution is access, absolutely unlimited, access to means from to the same twitter, to to, that is, there is no, authorities have disappeared, well, except for vitaliy, see. mr. sergey, before tiktok, twitter is already some kind of classic book from the past, yes, well, as a historian, i'm just lagging behind, but this is a world in which

we are, the world in which it mobilizes , defines itself, and in fact the traditional elites who were, er, controlled the discourse in one way or another for centuries, today found themselves in a situation where they can no longer do this, i.e. ... the old world has not collapsed, but it has very serious challenges, at least on this, on these two levels, which are new factors of the last 10-15 years, how to learn, how to live in this world, we do not know yet, we must to study, and then at the end i will ask you, what is the year 2024 already, will it not be the case that at the end of the 23rd , you and i will talk like this, i will... i will say, mr. sergey, and we talked about this all at the end of 2023, eh, you know, it is difficult to predict, especially when

you have to predict the future, but eh, what i can say that we are approaching some new, if not a turning point, then a decisive stage in this war, but there were before that... actually two such stages, the first was the end of february, the beginning of march, when ukraine and the ukrainians decided that they would to fight, no one expected this, not even from a historical point of view, traditionally everyone was afraid of the great russian soviet army, from the czechs to to to... who planned to retreat and so on and so forth, that is, historically ukraine broke the pattern, this was the first defining moment, the second came in april,

when the americans, our western allies decided , that okay, maybe this is serious, that is, this country should be supported and supported not at the level of guerrilla warfare and struggle, and here we are at the end of the 23rd and 24th year, and... this is the time in the 24th year, when in english this commitment, that is, when the decision of ukrainians to fight and the decision of the west to continue this support and to support at a completely different level, there has to be a rethinking of this and there has to be a response, and depending on what response we... get from ukraine, what response we get from the west, will the future of the war to be decided and possibly the end of the war as well, so the 24th, even if

the line is moving or not and where it 's going, in terms of decisions, it, it, could be a decisive year, and this, this, this is what will rather happen and is happening in ours in the heads, in the heads of... our allies, and only over time can it then transform into a situation at the front. thank you, mr. sergey, i want to wish you not only a decisive, but also a victorious year. good luck. thank you. o. boiled water, there is not enough ordinary water here, drink reo, i am saving myself, reo, you are ready, dear, ready, i took reo, reo - water for special

medical purposes. a special performance of the legendary dead rooster band with an orchestra at the lviv opera with the christmas and selected program. early lyrical songs, new christmas songs and favorite super hits. tickets for the stage of the lviv opera on january 8 are available on the website of the big show ua organizer. espresso and radio are information partners. galicia is a living sound. there are discounts on citramone darnytsia, 10% in travel pharmacies for you and save money. 93 separate mechanized brigade cold yar is in dire need of drones. to effectively hit the enemy and increase the losses of living and non-living forces

of the occupier. to get closer. the victory that all of ukraine is waiting for. glory to ukraine! glory to the heroes. see this week in the program judicial control with tatiana shustrova. bribes, treason and decisions against defense capability. judge doljko called the ministry of defense of ukraine a private company. which of the judges stood out last year? on thursday, january 4, at 5:45 p.m., watch the judicial control program with tatyana shustrova on the espresso tv channel. this is a truly intriguing film, a film about the life and career of the first female prime minister of great britain. where there is disorder, we will bring harmony. where there are errors, we will bring the truth. margaret thatcher, the iron lady. are all hers

loved i don't admire her intellectual method of not being able to think she could be wrong. but there is no doubt that it was thatcher's reforms that laid the foundations for the welfare of the state for many years to come. she was the prime minister who truly eradicated socialism from the system. the modern world is sorely lacking in leaders of the caliber of margaret thatcher. it is all the more interesting to take another look at the extraordinary life and times of this formidable woman. come back if you... want to. the lady only goes forward. thatcher documentary. only forward. january 7 at 10:10 and 22:00 at espresso. vasyl zima's big broadcast. two hours of air time. two hours of your time. two hours to learn about the war and how the world lives. two hours to keep up with economic and sports news. two hours in the company of your favorite

presenters. driving. that many have become like relatives, as well as honored guests of the studio, the events of the day in two hours, vasyl zima's big broadcast, a project for smart and caring people, in the evening at espresso.

for your attention, a news release on the espresso tv channel, in the studio of iryna koval, greetings to everyone.