today is a day of great news, because our armed forces, yes, shot down two russian planes there, and this is confirmed by the commander-in-chief, and when there is such positive news from the front against the background of the internationally important visit of president zelensky to davos, this is actually the best body for negotiations , in order for the ukrainian authorities to feel more confident, so i want to first of all thank the armed forces of ukraine, who give the opportunity to all... our negotiating teams, you know, strongly defend and demand the support of ukraine there, and here we have be all worthy of our armed forces. thank you, mrs. iryna, for your participation in our program, it was iryna gerashchenko, people's deputy of ukraine. friends, we work live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those who are currently watching us on the internet, please do not forget to like, do not be stingy, support. our broadcasts, support

our pages, we work for you, in addition, during the broadcast we conduct a survey, we ask you about the following, whether ukraine can win the war without western help, yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, if you are sitting in front of the tv and watching our telecast, pick up your phone and vote if you think that ukraine can win the war without western help 0800 211 381 , no, 0800-211-38. 72, all calls to these numbers are free, call, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. next, we are in touch with people's deputy of ukraine, former head of the security service of ukraine, valentyn nalyvaichenko. mr. valentin, i congratulate you and thank you for being with us today. good evening, glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. indeed, today is quite a very good day for ukraine and for the armed forces of ukraine and especially for the air force. of ukraine, because our

defense forces destroyed the enemy long -range radar detection aircraft a500 and the enemy air control center il-22m over the sea of ​​azov, this is, it seems, one of the largest one-time losses of russian aviation in the war, the history of our armed forces managed to do this, and what does that mean sir that the armed forces received some kind of weapon, which is now getting it where the russians did not think that they would get it, yes, it is getting it, yes, our air defense forces and the armed forces of ukraine are gradually getting it and have already received it in certain directions, so far the working name is, you know, that i didn't understand in advance what it was, it's called a wandering patriot, but in fact. these are more accurate systems that

get the most serious air forces of the enemy, and over the sea of ​​azov the downing of the long-range radio detection of the a50 aircraft, which you told sergey, means, firstly, that for the first time in history, and secondly, that an entire complex of detection on our territory of all airborne, all nazis was destroyed. them and even sea objects of targets that should be protected, but due to the presence until recently in the armed forces of the russian federation of the aggressor of such soviet aircraft, by the way, a50, they managed to look up to 400 km deep into our territory and our sky, it is clear that it is not just to watch, but to endanger, for example, native zaporozhye, dnipro, anniversary, anniversary, the first

shelling of the dnipro terrorist missile were yesterday, january 14, so the c300 and s-400 guidance are also these a50s, and ballistics that penetrate up to 300-400 km, and the c300 is 300 km, the c400 - 400, are guided by such radar, flying terrorist stations, and one more thing, our heroes should be congratulated also for the fact that... never, never again will be able to produce such an aircraft again, that is, this destruction is final, there was, there is not, and never again will russia be able to have such an a50, although in according to various estimates, there are still three or four of them left, but how many of them are in combat condition, how many they are capable of causing such schools, as this particular a50 asked, this is a huge question, but i have just now communicated and... read

western analytics, western special services, as they assess, they really assess this as a huge historical success of the armed forces of ukraine and the air defense of ukraine, and experts add, i am with them for... such crews, such operators, who were destroyed together with the plane, and they are on the a50-15, at least, in the crew of guidance and tracking operators, never again and not from where russia will get them will be able, that is, it is such you know, a serious blow to the aggressor and his ability to control our territory, to direct terrorist russian missiles to our territory, publication. forbes estimated that the cost of these two planes, which were shot down yesterday by the air forces of the armed forces of ukraine, is more than 530 million dollars, during the war, the ukrainians destroyed more than 300 planes and more than 300

helicopters, but considering this large aircraft fleet, which our fighters landed, - to your question, can russia... if not restore the a500 or the il-22m, then at least rapidly produce aircraft and replenish its aircraft fleet. no and never. this is final. the a50 and il-22, in fact, and the a50 long-range radar detection, it is a huge platform, a huge radar base, it was never and never produced, it was not produced by russia, it is from the soviets. times, there were 14 such a50 aircraft left in russia at that time. the same applies to il-22. we have unfairly said little about the downing of this plane by our air forces, but i will say that it is actually also a flying command headquarters, it is a flying

relay, because for people to understand why it is so difficult for our defenders at the front on the front line, because the enemy's aviation, they would have a temporary advantage until... they received the f-16, but it guides, coordinates and works as a command and communication point in the sky, just such an il-22, and this, dear tv viewers , this is already the third such il-22 destroyed by the armed forces of ukraine, let me remind you that at the beginning of the war, the first such flying command headquarters of the il-22 was destroyed along with the communications, the second ones helped us, and that's good, wagnerites. the prigozhynites, remember, during the rebellion and the march to moscow, they in russia have another one, already this one, but yesterday evening, this is a success of our armed forces, another one, and this is the third destroyed flying command headquarters and command center, and

i confirm, and this is true, russia will not be able to restore and do this again, and russia did not make such planes , and they remained and remained, unfortunately, now for us in russia. a-50 and il-22 were inherited after the collapse of the soviet union. mr. valentin, on the night of january 13 , the defense forces reported that during a mass strike on ukraine, 20 air targets moving towards ukraine were not reached their target, but these targets, or these missiles, or shaheds, they were not in the downed statistics either, which means that in... a powerful radio-electronic system of the rap fight against these missiles appeared, because so far no one has comments, but logic suggests that this is probably what happened , so we still may not be enough, but

finally modern radio-electronic warfare appears, that is, systems that can blind, disorient, or even knock out flying... russian terrorist shahedis and russian terrorist missiles, so far it is clear that is not enough, but also our specialists are working to ensure that ukraine produces more of its radio broadcasting stations, and together with international partners, we manufacture, receive, and most importantly, use. we seem to have been one of the first to say on your broadcast that ukraine has begun to create a digital sky, and that's right... such systems together with modern radar systems from various countries, including ukrainian ones, are all such components, components of the digital sky, which as soon as we complete it, and we will complete its creation in the near future,

there will be a completely different situation from the point of view of the protection of our ukrainian skies, hence cities, villages, and most importantly our defenders at the front from air force... and russian air strikes, and one more thing, you also have it in the 22nd year, i remember, in may, in april, you and i were the first to find out, sergey, and we said that up to... 10% of the russian missiles were not received in the 22nd year, because they were simply of poor quality, simply technically imperfect, or in principle could not fly. now the percentage of such unfinished, technically defective, or, you know, v the bad condition of terrorist russian missiles, their relative number has increased up to 20%, this is also to our advantage, and therefore, no matter how much russian propaganda hides from them even... it is impossible to hide the fall of missiles already on the territory of russia itself, on the heads

of their own russians, and such falls , as you understand, are not one and not two and not three, but dozens during each such terrorist attack, and there will be more in the future, because the problems in the russian federation with precisely such precise systems are huge, and i can only to confirm, mr. valentin, also about digital heaven, i can't help you... as a specialist who knows national security and defense, about the initiative of the minister of informatization and digital transformation mykhailo fedorov, who said that he would like ukrainians to learn how to assemble drones, fpv drones , seven-inch at home and began to make these drones for the front. it seems like a good initiative, but on the other hand , there is the state, there is the production capacity, there is

ultimately money that is allocated to drones and to cover the sky, or at least fill the sky with these fpv drones, will it not lead to the fact that at some point the sbu will come to my kitchen and say: listen, you're actually cutting weapons, you're sitting here soldering fpv drones, and it's unclear why you're doing it. well, let me clarify professionally, i don't know what exactly the government official meant, but i will say that in fact it can and should be done, and it is already being done, at the level of regional military administrations, in those regions where there are especially our polytechnic universities , universities, and specialists, graduates, or engineers who graduated and have relevant specialties, by the way, you are showing right now, precisely with such ... in mini-laboratories, yes, sometimes even in garages, yes, sometimes, sometimes even in

basements, but with such specialists and with the help of military administrations, for that , so that you are right, the counter-intelligence or the police did not come to you and record violations during martial law from the point to the opposite, namely licensing, permits to engage in such activities, and it is needed, the production of small and medium-sized drones to give the impression of.. enemy on the territory of ukraine, we correctly scatter and ensure that the enemy does not know, because it is no secret that from the very first months of the war , the enemy is hitting our military factories and military enterprises, as well as the energy infrastructure, so that this does not happen , in order to secure specialists and produce more drones for our armed forces, such a decision should be supported in every possible way, i repeat, only do it professionally and with professionals. and we have enough of them from lviv to kharkiv and so on and so on,

as much as possible, you know, to make it unreachable and unknown to the enemy, where and how much is produced. mr. valentin, the sbu in the rivne region detained a militant from the wagner group, who russian intelligence threw into ukraine already through belarus, although he fought at one time in the donbass, but his detachments again... he got to ukraine through belarus in the rivne region and deployed there are beacons for whether these trackers are gps or for targeting energy facilities in the region, how do you assess the current situation with the fight against russian saboteurs, are there many of them appearing on the territory of ukraine, or manage to track all the security service in? ukraine, well, probably military intelligence or military counter-intelligence, well, at least

, what are the results regarding the fight against saboteurs, because in the first months of the war we heard a lot about saboteurs and we know that there were many saboteurs on the territory of ukraine, what about it now? yes, at the beginning of the war there was a terrible situation, remember, even in kyiv, in apartments, beacons, intelligence, all this horror then contributed to the aggressor's launch of missiles. terrorist feats, strikes on kyiv and not only on cities of ukraine, and then also on the energy infrastructure. therefore, i believe that such a special operation, which ended successfully, when the saboteur... and on the territory of ukraine , sabotage equipment was detained, neutralized, seized, including these trackers, but most importantly , russian military intelligence, which was behind sent by this saboteur, the russian officers who did it were discovered, and now the ukrainian special services are discovering a network

connected with such activities, which sat down or. went to the parcel or from the territory of the republic of belarus, or from the territory of other countries. it is very important for us to understand that any professional, counterintelligence officer will tell you that there is no such day or night when they get up and talk and everything is fine, but now we have cleared everyone, we are sure of that, no, no, no, exactly from the point on the contrary, during, especially martial law, during war, it is a 24/7 painstaking, counter-intelligence job inside the country for forward detection. prevention and many other verbs, which for professionals are not just verbs, but specific measures, special operations, neutralization, destruction, neutralization and so on and so on. i can say that the enemy is extremely interested in detecting and placing spying or sabotage equipment for guidance on

military facilities of ukraine, energy facilities, and therefore our facilities must be protected. around the clock and vigilant, without relaxing, i think that this is one of the main tasks of the sbu inside the country. europe has three to five years to prepare for the fact that russia will pose a serious threat to the eastern flank of nato countries. today, he talked about it in an interview with the british estonian prime minister kaja kallas told the times newspaper, she says that according to our intelligence it will happen. in 3-5 years, it will greatly depend on how much we manage to preserve the unity of our position regarding ukraine. these days, mr. valentin, people have gathered in davos on whom the future depends, not only the political, but the economic future, and the military future of the world in general, and today this

forum opens, tomorrow volodymyr zelenskyy will speak and convince the participants... join in peace formula, switzerland will host this global peace formula summit, how do you assess the fact that europe can speed up consideration of ukraine's questions and requests regarding the provision of weapons that we have not had so far, long-range missiles, aircraft and other weapons that are not ... is necessary in order to find a formula that will allow the russian invaders to be expelled from the territory of ukraine? i know that now within the european union and especially nato, important decisions have been made and they are starting to take effect from the beginning of this year. the first solution is to strengthen the air

force, nato forces, including on the territory of estonia, you mentioned the prime minister, ms. kalas, indeed. intelligence is one of the most professional, i have known since the 14th year, i worked with the heads of these intelligence agencies, they have a very high level of intelligence, so estonia is one of the first countries that provided its military airfields and 24 hours a day, 7 days on a week, nato aviation is on duty, protecting the skies of the baltic countries from this very infrastructure of estonia, and this is not only a decision in estonia about estonia, it is a decision from of great britain. to bulgaria, everyone understood everything and these countries, especially those closer to the flank and to the territory of russia, are just strengthening the air force and air defense. what does this mean for us? for us, this means that the aircraft fleet, additional missiles, additional guidance systems, detection will be supplied and

produced by these countries, and this means that both for us and in the interests of our air forces, we will ... order, and therefore, i hope, more to receive the necessary systems for the armed forces of ukraine. let's start with what on approach, there should already be f-16s and the first two or three squadrons on the approach, this is what the eastern and southern fronts need now, so that the general staff of ukraine, the armed forces of ukraine in the sky not only can, as now, brilliantly shoot down a50- those. but also to eliminate the russian military aviation, not to let our ground forces, our defenders, who are holding the front now and will continue to counterattack, knock the enemy out of our land. mr. valentin, does this mean for europe, for western europe, that the preparation for

a possible war with russia is not a sign equality, victory over russia and the destruction of putin's regime. that is, why they don't articulate like that, that is, why they don't talk about the fact that this threat will disappear not when we are ready for this threat, but when this threat from... will arise as such. i think that now for them, and i have already voiced it, especially since this year, the decision has been made - it is to strengthen additional systems, purchase and produce. well, you and i mentioned, let's mention again, finland bought david's sling from israel, it is a 250 km anti-aircraft system. if they placed near helsinki, then they will shoot down any russian missile near st. petersburg. putin or his regime is targeting finland or any other northern country, but i think that the leadership of these countries, the leadership of nato, are clearly

preparing now, articulating that there is a threat from russia, from putin's regime, that there is aggression against ukraine, but they are currently preparing only for the protection of their territory, and, as we insist, to further help ukraine. neither the leadership of nato nor the member countries have yet to respond otherwise the european union is not ready, but time will tell, i think that including in davos , which you mentioned, where the economic forum opened, there will be not only issues of artificial intelligence, although this is one of the main issues, but the main issue is all after all, the first thing is security and what to do with the entire european continent and the global economy, when the country is the aggressor of russia. is trying to destroy both the global economy and global security. thank you, mr. valentin, for the conversation, it was valentin nalyvaichenko, people's deputy of ukraine, former head of the security service

of ukraine. friends, we are working live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, don't be stingy, please like this video so that it can be promoted in the youtube trends. in addition, you can vote in our poll, today we ask you about whether ukraine can... be able to fight a war without western aid, yes, no, if yes and no on youtube, everything is quite simple, if you have your own opinion separate, please leave under this video if you sit in front of the tv and watch the telecast, pick up the phone and vote, if yes 0800-211381, no - 0800-211382, all calls to these numbers are free, call, oleg is next to us. former head of yushchenko's presidential office and ex-vice prime minister of ukraine. mr. oleg, i congratulate you and thank you for being with us today. good evening. let's start

with the germans, mr. oleg, because today the german bild has made public what seems to be the plan of the bundeswehr for 2024-25 . according to the german publication , the eastern flank of the bundeswehr is preparing for a hybrid attack nato in february this year. the publication refers to a secret document of the ministry of defense of germany, which outlines a possible path to a conflict between russia and nato. the actions of russia and the west are described month by month, culminating in the deployment of hundreds of thousands of nato soldiers and the inevitable start of war in the summer of 2025. nato has already explained that the publication of the bulletin is based on a document that is educational. although we remember that on the eve of the great war, bild published a map of the attack on ukraine, and moreover, they gave this map to each other, yes

as the russians entered, that is, from the north, from the northeast, from the east, from the south, in your opinion, is it possible to consider this plan, which was thrown out, as a test and reaction of western europe. europeans on the plans that the bundessphere may have from intelligence, well , it can and should be considered, because this is an obvious test, and i also thought that it was an incredible scenario, and we all remember, for sure we will remember this for the rest of our lives the map was published by bilt, but there is a fundamental difference, because when bilt published this map, it was really on us... a huge army was already gathered there at the borders, it did not disperse, and one could imagine the realism, imagine

the realism of the fact that... we are overrun there, we will soon dispose of up to half a million muscovites here, and we can see the collapse of this army, that this army dares to go further somewhere there is very difficult, they do not have the resources and there is no reason whatsoever to say that they are forming some kind of strike groups, but i welcome this trend, i am serious, i am much more pleased to hear it. than what it was a year ago, when they are in the west at all, the word strategy was not used, the applications of ukraine , and at every step we said that listen, we are here on the front line, we are protecting democracy in europe, if we fall, then you will be next, no one took it seriously, and now they are in in different countries, and overseas,

are beginning to work. models, because the military always works out models, the military always tries to simulate any realistic, even unrealistic development of events there, and this is much better than just sitting and hoping that somehow it will be. mr. oleg, the poles are already talking about the need to strengthen the army, it is necessary to do everything to ab... secure ourselves from russia, and in poland they are already assuming the possibility of the arrival of another wave of refugees from ukraine in the event of an escalation on the part of the russian occupiers, and this is not said by bloggers there or journalists, but by the deputy minister of foreign affairs of poland , andrzej shayna. in an interview with rech-pospolit, he said: "we cannot rule out that the russian offensive will lead to a shift of the front to the west and cause the arrival of

million additional. ukrainians, mostly women and children, and he stated that a new wave of refugees could become a burden for poland, given that the event is preparing for possible such scenarios, scenarios, but why do you think the event does not discuss the issue of eliminating the putin regime, or at least demilitarization of russia or deputization. russia, why is it constantly being talked about that we will now join the arms race, more weapons, we will do, we will place more weapons in the north, in the baltic countries, and in this way we will defend ourselves from russia, is it possible defend against russia, if russia will constantly be the element that will interfere with peaceful life and interfere with security. in europe

and the world, well, the answer is obvious, and we ukrainians know it, that's why it was always important for me to understand the endgame, and in english, what is the end game, what is this game, it's difficult to call it, but what will this war end with, what is victorious for us and for the democratic world , the crowning glory of this war, and it is certainly not only there , that the russian...occupiers were pushed to the border in 1991, it is, as they said, several western politicians have openly said that this is a situation where russia will never again be able to threaten ukraine or the democratic world, and it will threaten unless it suffers a crushing military defeat, and now you remember when macron said that russia it is necessary to strike there, but

not finish it off and... and all these scenarios, this formula that i like , some jokers very aptly said that the formula of often western policy, in particular american policy, sounds something like prevent ukraine from winning and do not give to russia to lose, and not to be with ukraine as much as necessary, so i think that in certain circles, i am sure that in certain circles these scenarios. scenarios are given of the possible collapse of russia, scenarios of behavior in the event of what to do with nuclear weapons after the collapse, and most likely, these are not the military, most likely these are the special services there, which carefully monitor the situation, which have their own agents in russia , who have been working with russian business there for many years, they have a lot of opportunities.