of the aviation association of pilots and aircraft owners was working now on the air, well , antin and i are already saying goodbye to you and we will see you in this studio after the weekend on monday, and you will be with espresso and the broadcast will continue, so stay, and we will say goodbye to you until next week. it's 5 p.m. in ukraine, and we have a news release on the espresso tv channel in the studio of iryna koval. greetings to all viewers. chelyabinsk picked up the baton of today's large-scale fires in russia. the europe-asia indoor market caught fire there. the flames reached 1000 square meters. the strength of the fire is such that the fire

can spread to other houses. there is no information about the victims yet. what are the causes of ignition? firefighters are running out of water, so they ran a water main to the myaz river. a reconnaissance group of the russian volunteer corps fired at the ural truck of the occupiers in the bryansk region of the russian federation. two were killed, two more were wounded. rdk reported that the successful operation was carried out by yesterday's recruits who joined the corps in the summer. at the same time , it is written in russian social networks that ural was found on the section of the road between the villages of ulytsia and komunna suzem district. there were damages on the car that indicate an attack with small arms. in the pechersk court of kyiv, a preventive measure is chosen for businessman ihor mazepa and three other suspects in the case of illegal acquisition of land plots. my colleague dmytro didora is watching the process. he is now. contact us directly. dimo, i

congratulate you, please tell me all the details, including the current position of the prosecutors. i congratulate ira, and i also congratulate our viewers, we heard the position of the prosecutors in the courtroom, they even asked to recognize the ministry of infrastructure of ukraine and the ministry of economy as victims in this case. i apologize to the victims of ukraine in the case of the businessman ihor mazepa, the meeting has been going on for several hours, during this time mazepa's lawyers asked for the prosecutor's dismissal, as they see bias, and also say that the prosecutor prematurely accused ihor mazepa of already committed offenses in her petition, but this did not happen , the session continues, then the lawyer... the judge himself was asked to recuse himself,

now this request has already been considered by another judge, she did not satisfy him, the process must continue, but when exactly it is not known, because there are still other motions and in the court that is considering this case, another motion also concerns the dismissal of the judge, ihor mazepa's own brother, yuriy mazepa, but let's listen first , what... what does igor mazepa think about this matter, this plot of land , which belongs to hes and is supposedly a water fund, it is three, a little over a thousand hectares, and i am accused of illegal, illegal purchase of 2 hectares, not 2 tysia, and 2 ha, and for that, the investigator

the prosecutor is asking for bail of 700 million dollars, and hryvnias, excuse me, estimating the hypothetical loss to the state at 7 million hryvnias. and indeed , as we just heard, the prosecutors are asking for a bail of uah 700 million, this is an alternative, they are asking for detention in custody, i will remind you that the sbi announced the detention of the businessman the day before yesterday. according to the investigation , they say that he organized the expropriation lands around the kyiv hydroelectric plant, and ihor mazepa is a businessman and the owner of concord capital, and now this company says that she was searched and prepares a statement about her director, immediately after the break in the appeal was announced, the judge took over the case. it was igor mazepa's brother yuriy

and the lawyers who assured that they learned about this case by accident, suddenly, and they had very little time, let's hear. we asked for an adequate adjournment because the defense attorneys received those four volumes of materials on the selection of guards at 3:30 a.m. the first defense attorney received, and you probably, if you follow the trials, you see when the defense attorneys plus one defender, more, more, more, in order to show, no, we were pushing back from when we got the first one, it's obvious to any of you, as a supporter of the observers, that the four volumes of material of a thousand pages of 3.3 at night it is impossible not to read. currently, the judge is considering the motion to disqualify the judge in the case of yuriy mazepa, and the same judge who was

at the beginning will continue to consider the motion regarding ihor, and this is all the information that iro peredauter has time to tell you. thank you dimo, it was our correspondent dmytro didora from pechersk. of the court, where a preventive measure is currently being chosen for businessman ihor mazepa and three other suspects. so the meeting is ongoing, we will continue to monitor this and let you know as soon as the results are in. and we are moving on, and the security service of ukraine exposed another scheme of embezzlement of state funds for the supply of defense goods. the chief of one of the departments of the command of the support forces of the armed forces of ukraine and the general director of the lviv supply company were found to be involved. according to the investigation, the colonel of the armed forces of ukraine, together with a businessman, established a corruption scheme during the conclusion of contracts. the official was supposed to receive a bribe of almost 45,000 dollars from an accomplice for a contract for the supply of defense goods for the armed forces of ukraine. such was the news for

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strengthening the country's defense forces. in ukraine , by the way, several draft laws regarding private military companies were prepared, but the work on them was never completed, so what experiences and practices ukraine should take into account right now in the conditions of war, what pros and cons there might be. and the second topic for discussion is - expansion of citizens' rights to own firearms. it would seem that after the 22nd year, the need for an adequate law on weapons, an increase in the percentage of gun owners in the state - these are things that were clearly understood and society demanded such a certain liberal law on weapons. let me remind you that in the first reading , the bill on the right to civilian firearms in ukraine was adopted a day before its commencement. active phase of the war on 23 july 22, but

now the second reading of this draft law is being prepared in the parliament and a significant the number of amendments to this document, and in fact, in this regard, the amendments can be regarded rather as a step towards undermining the defense capability of our country, we will also talk about this in our program. my name is serhii sgurets, i am the director of the defense express company, which is now jointly with kanal spresso. strives to highlight the most relevant events and topics of the life of our army and the defense-industrial complex. andriy kepkalo, the founder and head of omega consulting group, joins us now. mr. andrew, i congratulate you, glad to see and hear. greetings, mr. serhiy, thank you for the invitation. well, before the broadcast, we had a certain discussion, not to repeat ourselves, about topics that we seem to have ... talked about before, but i looked and in fact we

talk very little about private military companies now, and you are a person, which has considerable experience in creating such companies, and there are a certain number of people who believe that this step and this direction of movement in the state towards private companies is dangerous and irrational, unfortunately, we have not yet been able to find an opponent to your position, then i'll try to give a little insight myself on some things related to... private companies, but first of all, given your experience, i'd like you to tell us, relatively speaking, what a private company is in some standard sense, if at all, there is a standard understanding of pmc or consulting companies, because the word consulting in the name of your company , i think, appeared for a reason. well then, let's start from the beginning, unfortunately, we have private military companies,

they always associated with mercenaries, that's a lot bad, i do not support such an opinion, but if we are already talking about mercenaries, then i want to tell you that mercenaries have existed as long as there has been war, for example, about mercenary troops, it is even written in the bible, and there are many examples when mercenary troops were once used by someone, i even read machiavelli, machiavelli against the use of mercenaries, but i have a different opinion on this matter, and there is the subject of mercenaries and private military companies, it unfolded for a very long time, somewhere before early 2000s. and in the 2000s , the industry of private military companies, it

grew up and became more regulated, why? because the united states of america, they started, they started hostilities, both in afghanistan and in iraq, and i was directly involved in those activities, and i... i just want to remind you that since the early 2000s years, this topic has developed, we will not talk about the 90s, 80s, 70s, and so on, as this topic has grown up in bc in general, the united states of america decided to enter the territory of iraq. and i remember at the time, the secretary of defense, if i'm not mistaken, was donald rumsfeld, and he, he went on television, and he said, let's put it this way, he, i think, he

was trying to reassure the people of the united states of america, and he said such things , the war in iraq, it will last, maybe 5 days, maybe five weeks, maybe five months, but it will not last 5 years, and it turned out that they, the americans, counted on one thing, it turned out another, and when the other came out and they understood that it was going to be a war for years, then the question arose, what are we going to do about it, and the american politicians, they ... decided to talk, think together, and what to do about it, and there were three options, again, this is not speculation on some facts, i directly took part in it, and there were three options: the first option is to collect your things and leave, leave iraq, it was not immediately, well, they did not accept it. the second option

was to declare mobilization, and then, it was, well... political suicides were also not fits, and so they chose the third option: to create private military companies and use private military companies, both on the territory of iraq and on the territory of afghanistan. that is, what we are getting at here in this short excursion into history is that the united states of america is the country that uses private military companies the most. the second country is probably the arab emirates. for them, a private military company. it was a support in a critical situation, unfortunately, in our country we look at private military companies as caricature, you see, private military companies, there is a demand for them, everybody today uses private military companies, governments use private military companies, multinational corporations like exonmobil, shell,

total, they all use, use the services of private military companies , non-governmental organizations. well, which, for example, save the children or caritas, they use the services of private military companies, other services a little, even there some logistic or some other, but these are private military companies, the security of the vatican, who is involved today, the swiss, well, how did the swiss get into the vatican, you can say mercenaries, and i don't want to use this example because it's very bad, i wouldn't want to use it, but i have to... even terrorists have their own private military companies, i can call malgam takactical, it is based, if i'm not mistaken, in afghanistan, but it works for terrorist organizations, that is, the whole world uses the services of private military companies, and for some reason it is always taboo in our country, and i

do not understand why, but when we talk about a private military company, what are the signs or symptoms? are the basic things that can really be said that this structure or this group of people is a private military company or a consulting company or a defense consulting company, what are the unmasking signs of a private company? it's a company, it's very simple, it's a limited liability company that provides services of a military nature, for example, we engaged in the training of the armed forces occupied. we are not engaged now, because we do not have the resources, we were engaged in the training of the armed forces of ukraine, we trained operators, for example, for example, atrk, manpads, we trained sappers, we trained saboteurs and so on, that is, such activity, it has signs of activity of a military nature, well, here you have, for example, the signs of the pmc, fine, but if the company

is engaged in medicine, preparing honey, is engaged in airport security, is engaged in gathering intelligence in the interests of security forces, these are also private military companies, no, but the last time you said intelligence gathering, it can already be considered a private military company, and by the way, there is a very high demand in the market now for private, let me so i will call it privately. intelligence agencies, intelligence companies, if you want an example, then let me give you this example bellingkat, well, it's a private company, well, it 's a journalist. to the conclusions, to the conclusions of this company is listened to, for example, the haab court, well then it means that the boundaries of private companies are still quite

blurred, it is difficult to determine why i am asking this, because relatively speaking, we had this somewhere in the 20th year, president zelenskyy says that we we really need to define private companies, two draft laws are being developed, they are hanging somewhere, zelenskyi says that it is necessary... to make sure that they do not become the basis of certain oligarchic forces and so on, where does this threat or warning to private companies come from appears if it is not corresponds to the essence of the pmcs themselves, looking at what you said earlier, this is a very, very relevant question that you have now asked, you see, in civilized countries i do not... to offend anyone, but in civilized countries there is not even such an idea that a private military company can be subordinated to some oligarch there, and work in the interests of some

private individuals there and, god forbid , try to remove the government or something else, well , a large private military company in the united states is black water, which does not exist today, but i know its manager, rick prinz. well, believe me , he does not even think of such an option that one day he can turn his private military company black water or some other, and turn it against the government and go there, well, i do not know how to eliminate the government there, who is currently joe biden and change him to trump, for example, well, this is a very simple example, you understand, that is, the events that we have... happened in ukraine before, for example, if i am not mistaken, it was an incident in which the participation of mr kolomoiskyi, when there were certain actions

with ukrtransnafta, well, there were some people in black, armed, unarmed, they entered the territory of the enterprise and so on , listen, frankly, it is not my problem that our power structures allow that there were some illegal armed formations in ukraine, and they could enter some enterprises, close them, or open them , etc. it is a legal entity, it can no longer be considered as an illegal group, because there is registration, of course, if there is a group, a group of people who have weapons available and there are some means of individual... protection, and there are a lot of them, then it falls under the category, if i don't i am wrong according to article 260 of the criminal code of ukraine , illegal armed or armed formations,

but a private company, it is registered somewhere, you understand, this is the first, second, mentality, mentality, we looked at what happened in the russian federation when wagner's pmk went to. .. storm, conditionally speaking of moscow, i don't want to offend anyone , but people who have not done anything bad, they are not afraid of anything, you know, that is , to be afraid that some pmcs will try to remove the government there, look at the events of 2014, people, people did not like what was happening in the country, people stood up, they used force. it was then that we lost this monopoly on force, the state lost its monopoly on force, the people rose up and they removed the power, that is, yanukovych fled ukraine, and we

, how to say, achieved this in ukrainian language, i do not remember, with the help of the population, and not with the help of the pmk, that is, i do not remember any cases in ukraine where the pmk private military companies were involved in any. illegal measures, that is , these fears that we have are completely unfounded, the pkk is a tool of the state, not a tool against the state, but for some reason people don't want to hear it, or they just don't hear it, you know, that is, like me i understand, now the attitude towards the pvc is rather a consequence of the fact that we are held hostage by our old mythologists, and because of this, relatively speaking, not we want to see the potential that now... lies behind the pvc as a union of structured citizens, which can provide, well, raising the bar or creating high-quality units of the armed forces or separate units

of other forces. structures, but then there is the question of regulation, the law on private companies, britain, the united states, there are no such laws , although these companies are represented all over the world, in our country, then, what way to go about this flirting with the law, the legislation should probably be limited, except by certain licensing of such activity and create transparent mechanisms of registration and control of such structures. well, it's like one of the options, well, let's say this, a license, licensing, yes, you can get it, but you understand, we have licenses for, for example, the transfer of knowledge, and if we talk about the transfer of knowledge, that is, we are limited only to training , that is, if a private military company, for example, it

goes, relatively speaking, to the congo, in order to train the armed forces of the democratic republic of the congo, it needs a knowledge transfer license, but we are here restricting pmc because we, we limit the activities of pmc, because we are talking exclusively about the activities of pmc abroad of ukraine. if we return to the law of ukraine on pmcs, then the law of ukraine already answers the question. this is a law of ukraine that can only be applied on the territory of ukraine. the law of ukraine will not apply on the territory of mozambique, or on the territory of mali or burkina faso. that is, that in ukraine we regulate with such a law. unfortunately, when there was a debate on this issue, the author of this bill, mrs. vasylevska smaglyuk, she created a working group, but, well, i i don't know how many times this working group

met, but... i was invited to one meeting, i spoke there, and i was not invited to this, to these meetings of the working group, because i was, well, categorically against many points of this law , for example, i don't see why our ukrainian pmc should create warehouses with ammunition, with weapons, with armored vehicles and so on, what we will do with it, that is , this law in the format in which it was written. it is absolutely counterproductive, but it will never pass the law in the verkhovna rada, in which it is written that a ukrainian private military company, here i have a training ground, and what should i do now, should i drive 10 battleships to the training ground, put mortars there, put machine guns, weapons, ammunition and so on there, put up security, the question arises , why do you need all this on the territory of ukraine,

and... that's why i believe that the law, the bill that was written, it was written incorrectly, i expressed my opinion, i do, from this, from this working group, and when we are still talking about private military companies, then what a mechanism financial existence for such, conventionally speaking, enterprises, if we say that these companies performed. there are tasks outside of ukraine , then they really have contracts with potential foreign customers there, if they work in ukraine, what should they be paid for and who will pay this money, and also a very interesting question, first of all, let's understand if ukrainian private military company concluded a contract with

a foreign customer. then this is the responsibility, the payment of services, this is the responsibility exclusively of the foreign customer. if ukrainian a private military company, for example, goes on a business trip, i call it a business trip, goes on a business trip, for example, to burkina faso, and it goes on a business trip in the interests of the state, then of course, first of all, such a business trip must be financed. the state, because we work in the interests of the state, after that there may be other financing options, but in order for us to have a start abroad in the interests of the state, the state must pay for it, if we are talking now in war conditions, full-scale war with russia,