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greetings, friends, this is the verdict program, we are working live, my name is serhiy rudenko, today in the program: the resignation of the hard worker in ukrainian and western media, media coverage of personnel rotations, why does the president's office lose information wars? the eu sends a signal of financial assistance of 50 billion euros as the beginning of negotiations on accession to...

the european union, what can stand in the way? pressure and discrediting, relations between the authorities and journalists are worsening, are there problems with freedom of speech in ukraine. we are live on the channel as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are currently watching us on social media, please like this video, subscribe to our pages, and most importantly , take part in our survey, today we are asking you about whether there are problems with freedom of speech in ukraine, yes, no, please vote on youtube, either yes or no, write your comment below this video if you have an opinion if you watch us on tv then please call if you see any problems with free speech 0800-211381 no 0800-211-382 all calls to these numbers are free , i want to introduce today's guests of our studio, today at

journalists are visiting me, and these are my colleagues bohdan butkevich, tv and radio presenter, bohdan, i congratulate you, i am glad to see you, i congratulate you, mr. serhiy, your viewers. tatyana vysutska, our correspondent in european structures. ms. tatyana, good evening. greetings, serhiy. good evening. thank you for participating in the program. oleksiy mustafin, historian, publicist, tv producer. mr. oleksiy, i congratulate you and thank you for being with us today. good evening. well, since we, colleagues, ask our viewers about whether there are problems with freedom words in ukraine, i will ask you so that our tv'. the audience understood what the journalists themselves actually think about freedom of speech and what kind of situation you and i are working in, god, please, i believe that they definitely exist for the simple reason that we have now, well on the one hand, there are those that are, in principle, caused by the war, although

again, unfortunately, the current government has not built any normal strategic communications and normal military censorship, which should definitely be there, instead, we have an absolute mess of information. politics , er, that is, when it is necessary, unfortunately, the ukrainian state is silent or cannot normally respond to challenges, the last case of the zl-76 being shot down is a textbook example, on the other hand, the authorities continue to hold on to the absolutely bastard, in a different way , don’t you say, the format of the unified telethon, which is already frankly harmful, is not even just a matter of freedom of speech, or, for example, that there is simply no news as such on the telethon, because everything is recorded there as on russian television in advance, so as not to for god's sake, someone didn't say something on the air, so... it's just a matter of the lack of normal informing of society about what's happening to him in general, and it's happening at the expense of the state. this is unacceptable. and of course, one of the most unpleasant things in terms of freedom of speech is the direct pressure of the authorities through their structures on dissenting journalists, and of course the way they and president zelensky personally treat

his own communication with the ukrainian media. i would like to remind you that volodymyr zelensky, as well as in principle all his entourage, are ukrainian media almost does not communicate. instead, they communicate only with western journalists. and that, of course, is completely unacceptable in my opinion, so yes, there are huge problems with freedom of speech. thank you, bohdan, oleksiy, do you think there is a problem with freedom of speech in ukraine now? well, i, i think that people who watch espressa, and we don't have another audience now, well understand that there are problems with freedom of speech in ukraine, given the way they watch espressa, because it's a question of inadmissibility. channels are actually limited their speech, which is already, well, that is, not a week, not a month, but years have already passed, how and how these problems exist, and the fact that , in fact, you know, yes, speak, speak, you

do not disturb us, no one even says a word about what is happening, well, in this particular situation, it shows that we have problems with freedom of speech. on the other hand, yes, of course, war affects it, it is not, the natural environment for zmi, although zmi must perform its function in any conditions, but on the other hand, even to direct invasion of russia, we know how the current government treated the media, it started with the words that they do not need journalists, and now i see it that way. what more is a bet on e-e telegram channels, if we talk about the influence on the audience, well, i don’t think that, that is, i think that people who are engaged in a single marathon are smart enough to understand that this phenomenon can no longer to influence the audience and

determine its position, so to speak , few people receive information through a single marathon, and if so, then this is no longer a problem. then this is no longer a media phenomenon, well here the question is whether telegram channels can cover the large audience that is usually covered by television, for example, in ukraine, this is... the first and second, of course, you mentioned the espresso tv channel, we are in the second year, well two years already outside t2, that is, we were thrown out of there as the fifth channel and the direct channel, for some reason we were included in the pool of petro poroshenko, and i believe that we are poroshenko people, powder workers, and we were simply taken and thrown out, no one even understood who there is an owner or someone related to it channel, or someone doesn't have one. well, they just threw it away and that's it. tatyana, do you think there are problems with freedom of speech in ukraine?

well, personally, i have been working abroad for the last few years, and even more so i work for express, where there is no censorship and restrictions, so i do not see any problems for myself personally, but i see in ukraine a distortion, one might say, of the information space, when in fact it is real journalism moves somewhere to the side, goes ahead... absolutely not the journalistic work of a big marathon, which practically no one watches anymore, and therefore if i were to say, that i am more and more pleased that every day more and more people tell me that they saw me on espresso, that is, people start looking for options, people stop watching marathons, switch to independent media and it is good, well , it is good that we are watched, colleagues , i would like to talk to you about this whole story with the resignation of zaluzh. forgive me, perhaps this topic has already been fully, let's say, sounded

in different configurations, on different platforms, including on international media, but still this story, it shows, because we saw for 5 days an information attack on zaluzhnyi, but it was so organized, this ... attack, that bloggers and journalists were left to blame as a result of this information attack, who, well, probably knew that zaluzhnyi was meeting with zelenskyi on monday and that it had already been decided that zaluzhny is resigning from the post of commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, or that he is simply already being pushed to leave, or could the situation develop in some other way, given the fact that... the resignation, even if it is delayed by the head of the armed forces of ukraine, that's it

an irritating issue for ukrainian society, and no one in the president's team can probably calculate what consequences this resignation can actually lead to, and what the result will be, oleksiy, you are a person who knows about... and political technologies, what do you say about what party the president's office has been playing for the past five days, because literally an hour ago, the supreme commander-in-chief's bid ended and it seems that something had to be decided there too, and here comes the information that zaluzhny there he gave a speech on the pond supreme leader, there are no questions, but the question remains, well, you know what game is being played. now the situation can

be defined as follows, that is, in any situation there is a loss, on the one hand, it is obvious that the differences between the zelensky workers are already open, and knowing the manner of the president, not at all... people who, mr. oleksiy, very bad, i'm sorry, bad, bad connection, mr. oleksiy, we'll go through, we'll redial you now, because we have problems on the air with the sound, bohdan, come on, come on, you start while oleksia, we will recruit, how do you evaluate this whole story as witnesses and participants, in fact, what we have become, well, look, this story has been going on for a very long time, it... has been going on for a very long time, it has been going on since 2000, since the summer of june 2022, even

since april, these are not my words, these are the journalists of ukrainian pravda, they even wrote in the article that when mr. yermak essentially returned to management, i don’t know the country, but volodymyr zelenskyi is so sure, the first thing he did was start , let's say so, to put him on the head, the question is that, let's say so, everyone understands very well that zelensky usually attributes some political ambitions to the zaluzhds, which in reality did not exist, but simply... there are concepts of course understandable ratings, in which the rating of trust in the zaluzhd , i emphasize, is not a political rating, these are different things, trust is not a political one rating, but who cares, it's a political rating of trust in the hard-working. consistently higher than zelenskyi's, plus don't forget that the president's office is constantly measuring so-called political ratings, so political ratings, as far as i know, in the last month already what happened was that even in the first , roughly speaking, conditionally round, if even a slob wanted to take part in them, and by the way , he did not express such a desire, well , hey, even in the first round, he already defeats zelenskyi, this it is unacceptable for him, firstly, secondly, it is necessary

to understand that in the president's office they are panickingly afraid of the date of may 20, that is, the moment when it officially ends. term of office of volodymyr zelenskyi, because unlike the verkhovna rada, which wants to sit out its term, but it has a very important one, you know, a strip in the law on the verkhovna rada, where it is clearly written that the term of office of the previous, well , verkhovna rada ends at the beginning of the term of the next one, on the other hand, in the law, there is nothing that this, this means, can become about the certainty of zelenskyi’s tenure, therefore... with at this moment, that in the office of the president, there is a terrible junta, that the scumbag wants to kill everyone there, seize power, and so on, i have no doubt that mr. yarmak is behind this, who tells that only tatarov can save volodymyr oleksandrovich, what happens next, they, plus, let's face it, they understand perfectly well that sooner or later they will still have to hold elections, accordingly, the sooner they

remove the hard worker from his position, the sooner, as it seems to them, it will happen to him like aristovych, so they say, aristovych has already been. popular, but we removed it and that's all , and it blew up, but it's the same with hard-working people, it should be removed sooner, so that means, you know, they don't respect people, they think that people are fishy guppies, who like, like, took away from them, something from under their eyes, but they immediately forgot, well, what you and i saw on monday is, unfortunately, a classic method, and we continue to see it now, it is a classic method, a bastard method of such, you know, management named after vladimir oleksandrovich, what does it consist of, it consists of what it means, like , we are trying to remove... all the negativity even in the dismissal of the employee himself, that is , the idea was that he would come, they would press him, he would agree, write a statement himself, he refused, and the information about it immediately got out , well, then you saw the poor attempts of volodymyr zelenskyi and his environment to somehow lower this whole story and also make guilty those who wrote absolutely real inside stories about what happened there, unfortunately, this is the most terrible thing in this story, it

is not even that they are trying to release zaluzhny, after all, listen, for zelenskyi is personally responsible for everything, for the release of zaluzhnyi. it is also answered by zelenskyi personally, but how is it done, that is, the whole country is in a state of stupid frustration for 5 days, i am already silent about the fact that in most people it causes one reaction, that they are taking away from us hope, they will steal our victory , they will take away our faith in the fact that something can be normal, but how it is done, it is done with the utmost disrespect for people, that is , through their telegrams, they are rubbish bins of all kinds, even though they are equals, and they constantly dump a pile of unverified information to cause any exceptions.

but here's how it's done, you understand that this actually shows the real attitude of these people to the people of ukraine, that is , to such, you know, speechless biomass, which should just nod its mane and read with stinking telegram trash, what a bunch of people , i won't say bad words on the air, so that, well, although i don't know if nasrada can have any complaints against you, but well, that is, this is a very beautiful picture, i have no doubt that they are all they will return to this story in the near future, because they have problems. precisely because they believe that he should be removed right now, before he goes on some political story, thank you, bogdan oleksiy, please, so i'll just go back to what i started with, that actually described, if we talk about the game and chess terminology, by the term tsuksvan, when each, every move is a losing one, both from a political and from a human

point of view, because that is, of course, popular. zaluzhnyi is high , but comparing zaluzhnyi's popularity with aristovych's is pointless, because aristovych is a media figure, absolutely, who existed only in the media space, zaluzhnyi is not a media figure, more precisely, he is ultimately a media figure, he, if we talk about his political weight, it already exists, is already formed by it reputation already formed. uh, a large support group in the community, and if you consider him as a political competitor, then any move to leave behind, it means that he is uh, ... is a figure of uh equal to the president, that is, he is obviously already does not hide his disagreements with the president, and the president cannot influence him,

dismiss him, this means in fact it is possible, as they say, not to hold elections, because a person is at the peak of his popularity, a person who has proven that he can do something and not something but a lot to do, eh, then all the responsibility. is transferred to zelenskyi and whoever he appoints, regardless, it’s still zelenskyi , and the hard-working one finds himself in a free political party, he has full freedom of maneuver, so uh, nothing can be done about it, it can’t be done, and i would i didn't say that they want to release him earlier, because it reduces the chances of a good man to get a job, no, i didn't. and the risk is very high, because the situation is difficult, both in military terms and in political terms in the country, i do not

think that the authorities can completely ignore society's reaction, and even the way they tried to silence this story, shows that in fact, it is forced to listen to society's opinion, no matter how it is... -secondly, there is one more very important factor, everyone understood why she came, and it is obvious that now everything is pretending that nothing happened, this is a throw-in through telegram channels, which means that obviously the position of our allies is clear, they are not interested in any arising now. disagreements, the more some kind of political game was being played out ukraine, in such a situation, in which they are in ukraine, in a state of war. we see what

problems arise in europe and the united states, when they start playing political games there, how it affects the situation of ukraine, and even more so, obviously they understand that this is not the time now, it is in ukraine itself. thank you oleksiy, tatiana, you watched this week . what was happening at the eu summit, and all this was happening, what was happening in ukraine, all this information, let's say, information support of this conflict, which is still outside the borders there, outside the walls of bankova street, outside the walls of the president's office, already at that time the world media, as in europe and in the european union, how they reacted to it, that is, do they see unity in ukraine, are they ready

to support this unity, they allocated the money, it is clear that they want to see the projected government, they do not want this government to quarrel with each other, civil and military, so that everyone goes to victory together, otherwise why should they help ukraine if this government will fight among themselves, absolutely for sure. but for western partners, these are these political games , false rumors, this is absolutely not timely, because if at the time, when somewhere in ukraine, under the influence of the bank, some media leaks and rumors are being prepared, then the european leaders were discussing how to actually save ukraine and the ukrainian budget for the next four years, because without a subsidy from the west, the ukrainian budget cannot survive, orban called ukraine yesterday and... today a bankrupt state, it is a bit too much, but there is part of the truth in this, without western money, ukraine cannot survive, no will hold out, and that is why it is extremely unpleasant

for everyone, especially our western partner , to see in zmi reports about such and such political conflicts, about zelenskyi's plans to remove zaluzhny, not to remove zaluzhny, my colleague very correctly said that everything is equal in the eyes of the world, in the eyes of of the event, zelenskyi... is responsible for everything that happens in ukraine, and if he does not show this kind of integrity, command of the ukrainian government, then this has a very bad effect on the general perception of ukraine in the world, on trust in ukraine, on trust in the ukrainian authorities, but god knows with the ukrainian authorities, but this is trust in us , this is our support, this is our future, the future of our war, our victory, so it is very important that the ukrainian authorities finally understand what is happening now. .. the time is absolutely wrong for political games and manipulations, we need to think about unity, we need to think about war, we need to think about some government of national unity, how can this

be done. you have to think about serious things, not about games, or do you think it's only about that there is no point in talking about political jealousy and the future of the same zelenskyi or zaluzhny, or in principle without the future of ukraine and without a peaceful future, without a victorious future, about political ratings and political prospects. absolutely right. there is no point in talking about politics, if the future of the state is at stake, we need to talk about where to get more, where to get more ammunition, where to get more weapons, where to get more funds, because the 50 billion promised to us for four years is not enough for to maintain the same level development of ukraine, which has been in the past two years, so if there was a unanimous opinion in the west that

the ukrainian government should... have some single, well-thought-out, normal, logical voice, and all these political battles now look absolutely inappropriate against the background of the events taking place at the front . well, but all this is happening against the background of the existence of a single telethon, the existence of some telegram of errors on which the government is betting, and , let's say, problems that practically all journalists have with freedom of speech, in one way or another another. way, and this week our colleagues met with the ambassadors of the big seven, what happened there behind closed doors , only those who were there know, and somehow they do not share it very much, maybe, bohdan, you know something about what, what, what what they talked about, because if the ambassadors of the big seven pay attention to this and give a public signal to the authorities, well, we

see, including our... colleague vitaly portnikov at this meeting, although, well, what they said remained behind closed doors, that is, even we did not manage to find out what they were about said that the ambassadors told them, what do you think, the topic of freedom of speech and the topic of what is happening with freedoms in ukraine, despite the fact that there is martial law, will this be the main topic in... further communication between the political leadership of ukraine and our western partners? well, i don't know what happened at this meeting, i'll tell you right away, i wasn't invited there, it wasn't me, believe me, i absolutely did not want to be there, although, to be honest, considering that i am one of the main characters of the regular threw out the garbage cans of the bank, then how would it be possible to invite, for example, some people

who have orders were present there. from zelenskyi, it really surprised me a little, well, less about that, it’s a matter of europeans, who to meet, less about that, it’s not the surname that matters here, it ’s the fact itself that matters here, i absolutely agree with you, i ’m sure that first of all it the story was public, this photo was clearly taken in order to show the authorities that they say we are watching, plus let's not forget, there is informal, let's say, communication, i want to draw your attention here, dear colleagues , dear viewers, to one very interesting fact today is friday, and on wednesday evening zelensky resigned... the position of a very interesting character, the head of the so-called department of national statehood protection, security service of ukraine. what kind of structure is this? this is a structure that, even according to its official powers, is responsible for, let's say, content analysis of the media, that is, they monitor the media even officially, well, not officially , of course, when they need to monitor and even without any rd. i will remind you that by a very interesting coincidence, three people who learned in

because they... were the ones who came to the apartment of our colleague yury nikalov, and they were allegedly hired by a person who directly said that he was from the sbu, and as for our colleagues from bigusinfo, i think you remember very well you are telling the story about 30 rils , i cannot call these creatures any other way, because even from the point of view of the quality of the actions of the special services, this is simply complete incompetence, that is, 30 people who came to the rooms where the journalists came to the corporate party the next day cameras, and a day after the journalists left, they were back in full force drove by and filmed these cameras. if you suddenly did not notice, friends, then bigus immediately took pictures of the faces of these people without any problems, he has been searching for the last faces of those who were there all day, that is, exactly who it was, and therefore, let's say this, according to my information, which they gave me, in fact, this dznd was engaged in this whole dirty operation, including there were not only representatives of this department, departments and others, for example, the department of the sbu, as my sources tell me, but less so, what is important here is .