not for our enemy, then i think that they will only applaud this, by the way, about excessive openness, well, i could not help but notice, this week we were simply announced almost every day that such and such planners appear in ukraine glsdb bombs, well, we regularly talk about some kind of weapons that we can get, said victoria nolant, before that everyone in the ukrainian, in particular , information space spread it, then this... of course, but why this time we react to it almost a day in day, what is the point of such emphasis temporary, in any case , i would like to hope that there is an information policy , that is, it is not simple, as in such a normal peaceful life, whoever will announce first, that is why they attribute this merit, i would like to believe that there is a coordinated information policy. because we

perfectly understand that the war is not only going on directly in the trenches, the war is also going on in the information space, that is, sometimes it is advisable, for example, to make an announcement if these weapons do not arrive there in the next few weeks, but we have also seen other examples from by storm shadow missiles when literally there, figuratively speaking, a few minutes after it was announced that... was getting storm shadow, the first storm shadow missile hit a target in the territory, or rather, the occupied territory, so maybe, maybe this approach and that, but i will repeat once again, i would like to believe that these messages are verified, according to the time of submission, and who will speak them and in what form, and by the way, when vladimir putin is not here. of his plans, he is already

frank, he says that we will create a demilitarized zone that will protect the territory of the russian federation from shelling with western weapons, and the territory of the russian federation is understood as the territory of ukraine occupied by the russian federation, so how should we treat these plans, in general, where this demilitarized zone from putin's point of view should end, i don't know in i don't know in hungary whether in slovakia or in putin's poland. this state of putin was characterized by angela merkel a long time ago . all the time that he, when he says something, he lives in a parallel, parallel reality, in some kind of information bubble of his own, but if, if he were there, well, it would be a discussion, let's put it this way, and asking these questions asks, that is demilitarized zone, well, great, 10 km from the russian border

deep into russian territory, here is ukraine 50 km from the russian border, so this is a normal decision, well, i mean that crimea returns to ukraine and all occupied territories are withdrawn from them russian troops, yes, this is a demilitarized zone, this the first step towards peaceful coexistence , it seems like a good decision, but what putin is talking about, well, this is just complete absurdity, because he proposes to move this, that is, it is like this mini-trawl in front of the tank, move it, move it while it is there i won't stop, i don't know where poland is going, further, that they have the suval corridor, well, that's absolutely, let's put it this way, it can be taken as a threat that putin is not going to stop if he is not stopped. ugh, mr.

oleksiy, very briefly at the end, general features on the front line, how the situation looks now, are our chosen tactics of active defense paying off? eh, i would say that this is probably close to the maximum that can be achieved now in these results, because how, if you look and compare the cards there, it is not yesterday. today, well, let's say, at least in a month's period , or if we look at it over a year, russia occupied almost twice as much territory as we were able to liberate, here, but this is the criterion that must be applied very carefully, because that is our enemy is trying to show its success with territorial gains, and in my opinion, exactly what general zaluzhnyi was talking about. in his article that it is not,

it is not a criterion, or should not be a criterion, and it is not the way in which victory is achieved, that is why, unfortunately, ... has an advantage in manpower, first of all and not only in quantity, but in the freedom to throw it at these meat assaults without consequences for the internal politics of russia itself, and if there are not enough weapons in ukraine to be able to destroy them, well, to level this numerical superiority, i am afraid that this creeping occupation will continue for some time. thank you, mr. oleksiy. oleksiy melnyk, head of foreign policy and international security programs at the razumkovo center, was in touch with us. we 're going to break for a few minutes, but please stay with us. please. events events that are happening right now and affect our

lives. of course, the news feed reports on them. however, it was not enough to know what was happening. it is necessary to understand. antin borkovskyi and invited guests experts soberly assess events and... analyze them, modeling our future, every saturday at 1:10 p.m., with a repeat on sunday at 10:10 a.m. studio zahid with anton borkovsky at espresso. greetings, this is svoboda live on radio svoboda. we have already come to the snake itself. the following shots may shock you. news from the scene. kamikaze drone attacks live. political analytics, objectively and meaningfully. there is no political season, exclusive interviews, reports from the hottest points of the front. freedom life - frankly and impartially. you draw your own conclusions.

we continue the saturday political club, khrystyna yatskiv, vitaly portnikov, and add to our conversation ivanna klympush tsensadze, people's deputy of ukraine, head of the committee on... issues of ukraine's integration into the european union. ms. ivan, congratulations, glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. good evening. good evening. so, we can congratulate you, mrs. ivanna, on the fact that one of the most difficult such moments in the relations between ukraine and the european union has been resolved positively. the european union agreed to give us 53 million, 50 billion euros, that's 53 billion dollars, by the way, only 10 less than american aid. so, you are surprised by the fact that this is a unanimous decision, how do you explain it at all, why viktor orbán... finally gave in, but we have to understand with you that right from the middle of december, when orbán blocked this decision, everyone the efforts of our partners in the european union, they were aimed at getting just this decision, supported by all 27

eu member countries, and it was, well, let's say this, and methods, if you will, of pressure and conditions. and explanations and, well, such rather crude arguments of the internal discussion, but at the same time colleagues were also preparing for a possible plan b. regarding the adoption of a decision on the allocation of these funds for ukraine for four years by 26 members without hungary, but everyone emphasized that this was a very undesirable option for them because they understood that yes, it would be such a symbol of a... separation and the destruction of this, well, demonstrated unity of the european union from the point of view of supporting ukraine, so i think that the leaders of the countries, members of the european union and the heads of the european institutions, they are happy that it was possible to do it, and

it was really possible to do it, well, let's say with such a team game at various levels of pressure on hungary. mrs. ivanna, well... we must note that these 50 billion euros are not about one year, we are talking about certain conditions that our country must fulfill in order to regularly receive tranches, we are talking about regular checks on the fulfillment of these conditions, and at any moment, as we understand, the possibility of rolling back or stopping the program, eh, what prospects do we have not to fail here and prospects that nothing will change in european politics, another orbán, let's say, does not put a stick in the wheels, well, let's be precise in our expectations and our explanations, the program is for four years, it really provides for the possibility of discussing how it is carried out every year, and the european commission must provide such a report

on how it is carried out every year, but any decision that will concern its further extension, and it will be taken exclusively by the qualifications'. by a majority, i.e. by two-thirds of the votes in the european parliament the union, which is important, does not have any veto, and indeed there is an element that this... program can be stopped under review after two years of its operation, if the european commission , well, at the request of the european council, gives a negative negative opinion there, so there are still possibilities this kind of pr support for orban's domestic and foreign policy and using it as a platform for criticism of ukraine, criticism of the policy of support. of ukraine and so on, but at the same time you are really right, it is different, this assistance

is different from the previous provision credit assistance to ukraine in 22 and 23 years, and during the previous years, it was unconditional. even in this decision of the european council, we see a clear message that this mechanism will work under the condition that ukraine will preserve its... democracy will preserve the pluralistic multi-party parliament and its functioning and will preserve the basic principles of rights and freedoms, the observance of rights and freedom of the citizen, including and well, here we hear the echoes of hungary, including the rights of national minorities and the rule of law and it already lays. there is a rather serious call, in my opinion, for our government today, but beyond that, after this

mechanism is finally agreed in terms of its mechanics, a credit agreement will be adopted, which will be based on the so-called plan of ukraine, which the government has still to be presented finally, yes, to the european commission, and i wanted them to present it to the ukrainian parliament by that time, and this... plan will form the basis of the conditions that ukraine will have to fulfill every quarter in order to receive the next tranche, and it makes this program very different from any previous assistance we have received during a full-scale invasion. and tell me, in principle, if we talk from the point of view of these discussions about aid, what will happen to the discussions when... the process of negotiations with the european union begins, it will also be necessary to sit down at the table with viktor

orban or someone else after each chapter, persuade, convince, compromise. viktor roberdzhi said that after he received the decision on ukraine's negotiations with the european union, we will have a million more opportunities, that's all to block, well, it's true, he will have opportunities to overcome it all, well, i would even say that it will not only be necessary to sit down and negotiate with viktor. morban, it will be necessary to sit down and negotiate with a large number of individual countries, members of the european union, in view of one or another issue that may be sensitive for them. and it will be a very difficult process. that's why, you know, i always remember this phrase. it seems to me that six months are left until the moment when the prime minister of ukraine shmyhal promised that we will already be in the european union. this was, in my opinion, exactly in january. from the 23rd year, if i'm not mistaken, so either in january, or

even, well, somewhere like that, well, let's count, there are still maybe 8-9 months before that date, and it's obvious that it will be a very difficult process and it is obvious that in the coming years, with such and such leadership of hungary, with the presence of the fidesz political party, it will prevail. position in hungary, we should not expect any serious change in their behavior, and we should understand that they will use elements of blackmail, such as in relation to ukraine, as well as in relation to the european union, to the institutions of the european union or to their fellow members of the eu member states, and it will not be easy, and it is obvious that somewhere orbán is counting on the fact that it is possible to... change scales inside the european union after the elections this year, both in

the european parliament and in individual countries, members of the european union, because he sees this strengthening and increasing the role of now right-wing political forces, and he counts on additional allies in this process, and this is a very difficult challenge for us, as for ukraine. ugh. mrs. ivano, this week. as it became known, the minister of defense of ukraine rustem umerov appealed to the heads of the military departments of the countries of the european union with the urgent need for shells for the ukrainian army, that's what. what is missing, the european union can supply ukraine to ukraine only over 500,000 artillery shells by march instead of the promised million, and josep borel, the head of european diplomacy, says this frankly, this is not all of what was promised to us. on your opinion, the problem lies in production, that is

, purely in the physics of the process, or is there still a certain political component here? it seems to me that at the moment it is precisely what you call the physics of the process that is such a defining obstacle for the european union to fulfill the obligation that it proactively took upon itself and provided us with a million shells, sorry a billion, yes, but , but a million, a million, a million, a million, a million, but i, i am a little worried about the discussion that is happening now. in the european union because we hear that, let's say, the czech republic offers the european union , in view of the fact that there is a problem with production, and in view of the fact that it does not have time, the european military-industrial complex to produce this number of shells, to purchase these shells for ukraine already now from those countries,

well, with outside the european union, such as in south korea or other countries, but we see that separate. the countries that are the producers of these projectiles, they are quite skeptical about it and are interested in the fact that the funds that the european union, the countries of the european union allocate for this this purchase and this production so that they still remain in europe, and here it seems to me that now this is this urgent situation in which we find ourselves, and in view of the fact that the decision on the part of the united states regarding providing us with military and financial support, we need to enter into a conversation with our partners so that this initiative of the czech republic is still, well, at least partially implemented somehow, as long as colleagues in europe can increase their number, well, their capacity in the production of projectiles. how much in principle

it can be assumed that the europeans will be ready if you want to replace the united states, how about this... says french president emmanuel macron in helping ukraine? i understand, clearly aware that this is a task that can only be realized over a large number of years, we are not convinced that we have this margin of time, and therefore i think that it will be well close to an impossible task in the near future, on the next year or for... the next two years even, so, ah, so i understand that european countries can, let's say, invest additional funds for the so-called such state orders, and for which would be predictable and understandable for arms manufacturers in europe, but at the same time i am convinced that

it is necessary to attract opportunities from... european countries due to the fact that both the quality and the entire set of, say, weapons that the united states of america can provide cannot be replaced by the countries of the european union themselves in the near future. well, there is a strategically important question, actually access for us to the markets of the european union. we we understand that certain processes of a different nature are taking place now. in neighboring countries, and at the same time, it encourages politicians in these countries, it is possible to somehow intensify the discussion in the european union regarding the general access of us, as not yet a member of the european union, to the markets of the european union. mrs. ivanna, in your opinion, to what

extent is it realistic for us to fight for our place under the sun here, and why do we have to do it at all considering. or geopolitical situation, taking into account the situation of rampant aggression of the russian federation against us? well, you have quite diplomatically formulated what we have to deal with, we see both objective and very subjective, and even played by various political, internal forces in different countries, processes that relate to this now, well if you want to run a new run wave of farming farming. dissatisfaction, but we hear about intentions to completely block the border in poland, the polish-ukrainian border, we hear about additional intentions, now hungarian ones. farmers to block one of the transitions between ukraine and hungary, that is, you and i have seen the slovak, well, so far patchy

demonstrations, and the romanian ones, which means that we are facing a very, very complicated situation, and there are two different approaches here, there are approaches of individual countries- members, there are approaches... in general, the institutions of the european union, the institutions are more ready to provide ukraine with opportunities to maximize its ability to export across borders by land, by land through the countries of the european union, and i think that here we we also have such a political component, and partly the economic component, and here... the economic component can be 100% solved, and for a and here it is important that the ukrainian side is ready for these negotiations, and the countries, members and institutions are also ready, but after

that all this real the economy, the real economy, without manipulation, without conjecture , without embellishment, without, well, such a twisting of facts, it is necessary to transfer it to the political plane and bring it to the people, and this is not necessary... well, there will be the information that they will want to hear farmers, they are now using this opportunity to to secure additional subsidies for themselves, additional advantages, given that they lose competition to ukrainian agriculture, which is currently completely unsubsidized in europe, well, on our territory, and this means that it is much more competitive. and this is a potential point of tension and precisely this common agrarian policy of the european union, which for decades determined the subsidized nature of

farming in europe, will have to be reviewed by the european union, we are just waiting, at the end of february , such a report should be presented by the european commission on the challenges that the european union must... overcome before the new wave of expansion, and i am convinced that this will be one of those, well, those directions which will require a review and, well, such a difficult discussion in the middle of the european union and the same with us, it is obvious to you and me, as for the people who today are fighting for survival and for us to have a choice, it is obviously quite difficult to perceive some here... pseudo-rational arguments from the side our colleagues, when for us it is the only opportunity to have additional income to

our budget, and for us it is an opportunity to provide our security and defense component. and tell me, ms. ivan, what can we expect from the joseph balden and olaf scholz summit, it's february 9th in just a few days, well, i... i don't know what we can expect as a result of this summit, but we definitely understand that this is after all these decisions that were made at the level of the european union, and actually at the level of germany itself, which even doubled providing military aid to ukraine for the 24th year, and which is planning and also preparing, and well, before signing, here is my vision regarding these commitments. providing security assistance, because i can't call them security guarantees, whatever you want to call it banking today, i think that with this whole package of achievements,

let's say how europe sees kosholz, as one, as the leader of one of the key and important countries of the european union, sees an increase in its role in supporting ukraine, then it will obviously be about... well, that use as an argument for an internal discussion in the united states of america that europe does not transfer the burden of supporting ukraine to the states, does its job, but also expects from the states such a serious infusion of additional opportunities for ukraine to hold out and win in this battle, in this this the battle thank you, ms. ivanna. ivana klynpushat for people's deputy of ukraine, head of the committee on ukraine's integration into the european union. and now we

are moving from europe. so let's talk at the beginning, about this publication in the washington post, which is currently being discussed, about the fact that the ukrainian leadership allegedly informed the american leadership of the intention to change the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine to an american one. the leadership replied to volodymyr zelensky, you know , just like, i apologize for the joke of the jews, a non -believer on the sabbath, do, as you know, you generally believe in such a synagogue relationship between the white house and the bank, look, i am when american newspapers refer on some russian sources, let's say, regarding... what

is happening in russia, i don't really believe it, because i always think that it can be such a deliberate injection of disinformation from russia, but when american newspapers refer to american sources, which they do not name, that relate to what is happening there somewhere in the administration in the white house, i rather believe that this is real information than it is not real, and i would like to ... i believe that in the united states they would be unhappy with the possible resignation of valery zoloshny, and therefore it is quite possible that, that is, exactly the answer that was given. ugh. mr. igor, well in general, if we talk about what unfolded, unfolded in ukraine this week and about the reaction of the united states, whether the visit, in particular and... the political, yes,

political delegation from the state department of victoria nulaland, there was a place to be here, there was a place for that , to calm things down a bit, and was it successful in your opinion? in the united states, you see, there was no official comment on the possible resignation of valery zalozhny, but recently, in the last two or three days, it was very lively discussed in the media, in particular on television, teleba'. it in general, it is more focused on what is being done inside the united states, well , for example, last night i watched cnn tmsnbc, they discussed this, they spent quite a lot of time on it, with sympathies for zaluzhny, and with such questions, well, what is this in the middle of a war , you can’t change the commander-in-chief, well, such comments came from journalists, not from officials

, that is, or something... my opinion is held by an official person, we can only imagine, well, if, if you believe, because the washington post refers really to the knowledgeable sources, then it is so, and that is why i think that the administration was not dissatisfied with these rumors, this information about victoria, but i drew attention to the fact that neither volodymyr zelenskyy met with her. niermak, who is unofficially, so to speak, a confidant of volodymyr zelenskyi, or was it, they say, mr. igor, that there were simply no reports about some part of the program of the deputy state secretary, no, i am not responsible for anything, of course, maybe, but yes they just say, maybe, maybe, but let's say in the official the state department's announcement about her meetings

in kyiv, well, it was said that she under... confirmed her firm and determined support for the united states, ukraine and in its struggle, and so on and so forth. that is, i cannot rule out that she, she also talked about the possible resignation of zaluzhnyi, because, well, of course, that it was known in the united states, what was happening there, and since, since we can see from everything, that the administration was not satisfied with this, it is quite possible that she spoke about this as well. well... definitely hanging in the air for now there remains the question of help for us from the united states, senate majority leader chuck schumer said that as early as next week the senate will vote on a supplemental national security bill that includes a bipartisan deal on border security, and of course aid to ukraine and israel, on at what stage these processes are now in the us, as far as possible.

he is ready to understand the bill, he...