good evening, we are from ukraine. glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program. my name is serhiy rudenko, i greet everyone and wish everyone good health. for the next two hours , we will talk about ukraine, the world, the war, and our victory. today in the program. syrsky instead of zaluzhny, the new head of the armed forces plans to improve logistics and introduce new technologies. how will the situation at the front change? putin and carlson. the russian dictator spent two hours explaining to a scandalous american journalist why ukraine should not exist? what conclusions will be drawn in usa? right to destruction. kim jong-un, following his senior comrade, promises to attack the neighbor.

what other dictators will the kremlin free? for the next hour, we will talk about this and other things with political scientist ihor reiterovych and two diplomats, oleksandr hara and pavel klimkin. in the second part of our program, which will start in exactly one hour, there will be a journalism club, tetiana vysotska, maria gurska and oleksandr golubov from three european countries, from bonn, from strasbourg and... and warsaw will be in touch with our studio, let's talk about how the events in ukraine are perceived in western europe, how they comment on the rotation of the top military leadership of ukraine, well, of course, how they perceive the interview, putin's two-hour interview with the american journalist tucker carson, and before we start our big conversation , let's watch a video of how on... the occupied coast

of the kherson region, ukrainian forces disassembled a russian msv with a full ammunition kit, the video was released by the fighters of the 501st separate marine infantry battalion of the armed forces of ukraine. let's see. as well as the telecast, we are working on youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are currently watching live there, please like this video, subscribe to our youtube and facebook pages, and take part in our survey. today we ask you about the following: do you understand the reasons for the resignation of the volunteer, yes, no,

please vote on youtube, either yes or no, write your comment under this video, if you watch us on tv, take take your smartphone or phone to hand and vote if you understand the reasons for the dismissal of the employee 0800 211 381, no 0800 211 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free of charge, call at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote, we already have our first guest in touch, this is political scientist ihor reiterovych, head of political and legal programs of the ukrainian center for social development. mr. igor, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. good evening. well, since we ask our viewers whether they understand the reasons for zaluzhny's resignation, i will also ask you whether you understand why general zaluzhnyi resigned yesterday, and today he was awarded. the title of hero

of ukraine? i understood the reasons for the resignation of the former commander-in-chief, but look, they are subjective, that is, they are not objective, they are purely political, and it is precisely because of this that we saw such a format, when on the one hand there is a resignation, very well arranged indeed, everything is properly balanced in the media, today there is an award, but the aftertaste remains and remains very much like this, you know, bad in the sense that it is adequate... we did not receive an explanation and i i'm afraid we won't get it anymore. and why, in your opinion, the supreme commander of the armed forces of ukraine could not articulate why zaluzhny is leaving and why syrsky is coming, how syrsky is better than zaluzhny, or why zaluzhny is worse than zaluzhny, and actually, what will happen next with zaluzhny? and he could not articulate it, because he does not have an answer to this question, you know, when we speak clearly. about,

for example, the military component, it is absent in this release, and if you look at all the statements of our military, well many did it like this, you know, yes, well, anonymously, because in principle. they cannot express their position very strongly there, then they were generally in a slight shock in the sense that syrsky, despite all the respect for him and support for him in the position of commander-in-chief, does not have any alternative vision of how the situation should develop in battlefield, that is, by and large, it is a replacement of a person who was subordinate, well, they put a person who was subordinate, but at the same time , it is fundamentally no different from those approaches well... to a large extent, to a large extent, at least in the strategic sense that zaluzhnyi had, and accordingly the president could not simply, apparently, communicate with the citizens, because no matter how he explained the need, for example, to inject fresh blood there, some new approaches, a new course and so on, all this in one way or another, well, first of all

, it was already described in a recent article by zaluzhnyi, he talked about the necessary changes, what should be changed and how, he essentially laid out that plan for 24- and a year, well, of course not, not very specifically. considering there and a state secret and many other things, but nevertheless it coincided with the things that the president voiced yesterday, and when we break through the purely military component and talk about the appointment, well, through the prism of some other reasons, these reasons are purely political, the point is , that the citizens of ukraine, according to all polls and what we saw yesterday in the same social networks, well , the reaction, let's say to this statement, they absolutely do not accept these political reasons, they consider them harmful anyway. which should not take place during war, that is, you know, such an answer to this difficult question is very simple, if the president had at least one real reason that he could explain in detail and understood that it would be perceived more or less adequately by the citizens there, he would probably voice this reason ,

therefore, since he does not have such a reason, the resignation took place in the format that we saw yesterday, then some advisers already added more details, but these details looked like that. well, very much so, you know, it faded in the background of the event itself, and again left more questions than answers. after the resignation of zaluzhny and the arrival of syrskyi as the commander -in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, volodymyr zelenskyi will now share both the successes and the defeats of the new chief, because until now we have heard the rhetoric that there is a military leadership, they plan, they give the law. project on mobilization, they ask 500,000 people to mobilize, that is, this pronoun they would always be present in the rhetoric of president zelenskyi, if he brought, dismissed zaluzhny and brought

syrsky, does it mean that now everything that will happen at the front, everything that will happen in the army, will be associated not only with syrsky, but also with zelensky. well, in the next few months, it will be so, and it will be in the maximum format, and well, apparently, somewhere in the president's office, this risk was taken into account, but they believed that they would be able to block it or directly dissolve the position of supreme commander and commander-in-chief, but they will not succeed , and here you should actually sympathize with syrsky, because whatever he is doing now, it is up to him professionalism and competence, i think there are no comments, whatever he does now, it will be perceived primarily through the prism of this. political appointment, and accordingly in everything they will see the explicit or implicit hand of the president's office, and these are precisely the consequences of a political decision that was made yesterday, and which did not have appropriate explanations, and it will definitely hit her on

the rating of the president, why, because well in the near future, the situation will remain rather complicated, certain retreats are possible, well, more of the usual tactical kind character, but none the less. on certain areas of the front, and the responsibility for this will primarily be politically borne by the president, because it will be easier for the military to explain what is happening, and we must understand that, unfortunately, we will not have any troops there in the next month everything is necessary , what the armed forces need, that is, the situation here is unlikely to be corrected so quickly, therefore , to receive the consequences and, you know, as they say in the people, to rake, well, only in the political plan, the president will be directly responsible for all this, therefore, i think that the next sociological... polls, which sooner or later will lead, well , they will most likely show the dynamics of a further drop in the level of trust in the head of state, maybe then the situation will change, and god grant that we will have success at the front, the president will somehow be able to do it immediately then, well, to transfer his own political rating there, but it is

a matter of at least a few months, and now, unfortunately, there will be such associations, and these associations, well, they will clearly not benefit from the whole process , which we have today happens as at the front. and directly in power, you mentioned, mr. igor, actually, that this story will affect president zelenskyi's rating, and how will this story affect valery's rating? look, zaluzhny actually has such an interesting situation today, but it's probably optimal for him. first, i want to point out that he will most likely be related to the defense in one form or another, even if he will be doing what some of the telegram channels there wrote about, for example, doing teaching, well, it is clear that he will teach military tactics and strategy, and in fact he has tremendous experience that our commanders need. still , i would like to believe that he, at least an adviser, will be an adviser. the same syrskyi, or he will be involved in the planning of some operations, this is an absolutely normal, correct

tactic, especially considering the fact that he is currently the only commander of such a level in ukraine who has the experience of managing all the armed forces in general, syrskyi will only have to to learn to a certain extent, that is why his experience is needed here, on the other hand, in any politics, i think he will not take part now, simply because the war is going on, until the war ends, talk about some political ambitions of the former chief.. probably not worth it. by the way, he can pay more attention to some public activity, the more he had a pseudo before he became the commander-in-chief of volunteers, that is, he was already engaged in certain of these issues. perhaps he is now this direction to some extent intensifies, but it will be purely volunteer-public oriented. at the same time, the colossal rating that he has , i think, is not something that will decrease there, to some extent, well, in the next couple of weeks, months, it may even grow there, well, if he does not do it in the future. some ambiguous steps there, this rating can very easily be maintained until

the end of the war, and then, if mr. zaluzhnyi has the desire, for example, to deal with some already existing political issues, a political career, well, he can then this to use the rating, i don't know, to create one's own political force or for some other things, but this is still a matter of the distant future, in the near future everything should be fine with him, because after all, they parted ways, roughly speaking. well, it's not bad enough, and he remained in that situation when society is absolutely on his side, and he doesn't even need to explain and tell anything additionally, yes, that is , everyone understands so perfectly why this happened, and that he is in this situation, well bears absolutely no blame for what happened, so in this context he should be fine, well, the only thing is, look, there is another scenario, i really hope that it will not happen, especially after today's award ceremony, when in a while there they will start to disperse ... some stories , about any checks there, or criminal cases, by the way, we have a criminal case for the situation

that was in the south of the country at the beginning of the invasion, and they say that once even the investigators came to zaluzhny a long time ago, they asked him something there , if these things don't start somehow promote it, well, in order to cause him some harm, then he can calmly keep this rating, make some correct statements, correct steps, help the country in defense, and think about the future, but about the future that will be after the war , well... what it can be, this is a very possible scenario, all the authorities that removed one or another general, including, i remember, general marchuk was removed for forming his own political image, in the wording of the presidential decree there was it is written, he was fired from the post of prime minister of ukraine, but look, valery zaluzhnyi never demonstrated his political ambitions, he never articulated that he wanted to become the president of ukraine, he never... said that he was a political leader, even though he was the commander-in-chief of the armed forces in a country

that is waging war, this is absolutely such a big political position, on which the future of ukraine depends, on which the life of every person living in this country depends , on which depends when this war will end , including me in mind, i am not underestimating whether the role of everyone who fights at the front, but the head is a figure so serious. uh, does zaluzhnyi have a chance to become the next president of ukraine? yes, of course there is, and you know, i was surprised to read some materials, there or articles that started to appear a couple of weeks ago about the fact that there are bad generals , there are some politicians and so on, well, people are probably bad bad know history very well, there are many examples when generals became excellent politicians, starting there from and and such, you know, politicians who were respected, there de gaulle, eisenhower and... the same truman , by the way, he was the only one who was not a general, but , it seems, a lieutenant colonel, but a man with military experience, that is

, there are actually a lot of such examples, and if valery zaluzhny has such a desire, and he will want, after the end of the war, to come, for example, to politics, to politics in general, and to prove himself in the political plane, well , he will have very good chances, as well as in the context of that rating, well, you correctly noted that in general the figure of the commander-in-chief is a political figure, i i would also like to add... that the figure of a successful commander-in-chief, that is, a person who really did a lot for the defense of the country, for ukraine to stand up for the first time, especially during the months of the war, is simply not there, let's say. it is impossible to underestimate or overestimate his role there, well, it is objective and it is clear to everyone, and here the question is simply another, with whom he wants to go, whether it will be some separate political force, or it will be some bloc that he will have positioning, what is the limit of his political ambitions, you understand, because it really is to a certain extent society has just now elevated him to the status of a possible presidential candidate, and

maybe he looks at it in a different way and sees himself in some other position, everything can be in principle, and therefore in this context... everything will depend, well firstly, from when the war will end, and secondly, what exactly will he do now and how will the authorities generally monitor such a figure, who has now to a certain extent, well , already somewhat, well, partially, gone into such free swimming, it is clear that he is still an active military serviceman, this imposes certain restrictions, but his hands are certainly more relaxed, he can give more interviews, which he did very little when he was commander-in-chief, he can... write some programmatic articles, make some speeches, that's understandable , will also affect to a certain extent his image, well, and the support from the citizens, and today, i emphasize once again, it is colossal, it will remain the same, because today, well, today, yesterday, everything was added, you know , a certain factor of such and such an image, that's right, a person has done so much, and

they treated him, well, to put it mildly, not very well, well, i'm such a leitmotif very much , you know, well, it's noticeable in all those statements. which were, and our citizens actually have a short memory in this context, they will keep this memory, and the image of zaluzhnyi did not tarnish there, it became even better, well, now his main task is simply his keep in the future. and the question of what will happen to oleksandr syrskyi, the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine to his telegram channel, told about the main tasks in the new position, that he writes, there are new tasks on the agenda. first of all, this is a clear and detailed planning of actions for all military management bodies of associations, formations and units, taking into account the needs of the front in the latest weapons that come from international partners. the fastest and most rational distribution and delivery of everything necessary for combat units was and remains the main task of military logistics: to know all the needs of the front without exception and to master the situation at each of its

area, tasks of headquarters of all levels. and the assistant to the head of the pentagon. celeste wallander says that syrsky is experienced and successful. the united states of america respects and will work with whoever the democratically elected government and country's leader zelensky chooses as commander-in-chief. we will work effectively with general syrsky, which we already have. mr. igor, one way or another, syrsky will be compared to zaluzhny. even i look at all the comments from yesterday, they were also comparative, because i remembered. about zaluzhnyi graduated from the odesa land academy, and this is the university that already graduated him in independent ukraine, and syrskyi graduated from the moscow military higher command college, and studied under the soviet union, so there are many such comparative characteristics, will oleksandr syrskyi still succeed to

assert himself in the role of commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine against the background of such. skyrocketing rating of public trust in the hard-working, well, you really don't envy him, on the one hand, i think we all wish him absolute success, because he is now in charge the armed forces of ukraine, and the entire future of the country and our future with you depends on the armed forces of ukraine, therefore, in this context, all the support he needs, i think, should be provided to him, and society in this regard, well, should give it some time for that he entered the state of affairs, figured out what should be done and how. began to implement it, on the other hand, the really key question is , well, how much he will win or lose in comparison with the usual one, but it would probably be right for him not to pay attention to it now the attention is to do his job, to really demonstrate some new approaches that the president mentioned, and then it will in principle be to his advantage, it will be to his advantage that he really has some

differences there and he is ready to implement them in practice, but the most important thing that he should... probably do, is to somehow show, publicly or not publicly, that he is responsible for military decisions and will not allow any, you know, serious interference by politicians in the direct planning of military operations. by the way, it was called one of the reasons why they sent zaluzhnyi's resignation was that he sent away all the politicians who tried to somehow influence the adoption of purely military decisions, so if he does it, it seems to me that he has... everything should work out for him there will be support, because the army is a rather specific structure that has subordination, and it is clear that if his commands and his steps there are adequate, will... correspond to the vision of the armed forces, well, he will use this support, what he, to things, he said today, it seemed to me a very correct address, there are very clearly placed accents, which contradicts,

let's say, with some information that was circulated about him in some media and so on, well , the main thing is that he continued it further and well, he may have gathered a press conference, albeit a small one, where he would clearly say what he is going to focus on, how he will implement it, time will tell, i think that he will have support, well... at least in the first stage , including from zaluzhnyi, if he will turn to him. political scientist, head of political and legal programs of the ukrainian center for social development. friends, we are working live on the tv channel, as well as on our platforms in youtube and facebook, for those who are watching us live now, there, please like this video, don't be stingy to make it trend on youtube and on facebook, and vote in our poll, today we ask you about the following, do you understand the reasons for... the resignation of a meritorious person, yes, no, please vote in on youtube, or with the yes or no button, write your comment, what do you think about it under this video, and if you watch us on

tv, pick up your smartphones or phones and vote if you understand the reasons for the resignation of the hard worker 0800 211 381 , no 0800 211 382 all calls to these numbers are free, please vote, we would love to receive your votes. and show the tv viewers a rating of how you trust, don't trust the hard worker, the hard worker, do you understand why he resigned or not? further with us oleksandr khara, foreign and security policy expert of the center for defense strategies, diplomat. mr. oleksandr, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. good evening, mr. sergey, thank you for the invitation. the release of general zaluzhny marks a new and decisive stage in the war. zekonmist writes about it, in which zelensky risks making a mistake. i will quote what the british edition writes. the most important

question is whether mr. zelenskyi will be able to use zaluzhny's resignation to reorient his vision of the war. today, he still publicly promises that ukraine will return every centimeter of land occupied by russian troops, even realizing that this will not happen soon, if at all. if the ukrainian forces from... could expel the russian invaders, it would be great, however, unless something completely unexpected happens, the war is defined by the territory, it is a war in which ukraine cannot win, according to the journalists of the economist. mr. oleksandr, please tell me how the resignation of zaluzhnyi is perceived in the west now, and how you personally perceive, i.e. is it a mistake, zelenskyi's staffing mistake, is it not a staffing mistake, or is it a decision. the supreme commander, who fits into the framework of the existing legislation and the constitution, and it is up to him to decide who is actually in the position of the chief of the armed forces of ukraine? well, first

of all, i will probably start with the statement of john kirba , the speaker of the national security council of the united states, he said that the president of ukraine can of course make such personnel changes, and of course the united states will work with anyone'. a leader who will be appointed, and it is clear that our partners, our closest friends, they will perceive this person with respect, especially since he has a certain record, and he did not come out of nowhere, that is, the person is experienced, here, but actually, if you look, well, i looked at the british and american press, they are wondering what was the real reason for what happened, and everyone usually lists such... guesses, starting with some political mischief, that the zelenskyi administration, or in fact, zelenskyi himself saw a political competitor in the youth, and

in fact, this is one of the reasons, which is actually mentioned in all sources, well, there are other reasons, for example, the fact that he was too cautious, and mr. zelensky needs to show more results, and that is precisely why he can... rely more on the general tsirskyi, who will not argue and will also fulfill political tasks, including some tasks of the president of ukraine. well, it is clear that the president should define the political framework, but he should definitely not influence military decisions to achieve these political goals. therefore, this is a conflict of voices, it shows that our bank did not work with the international one. partners, the most important partners in order to form there an absolutely clear understanding of why this happened. and, of course, the same can be said about ukrainian society, which is more

acute. perceives, because, well, first and foremost, our defense forces are in the first place, more than 80% of ukrainians trust the defense forces, and general zaluzhnyi, as a person who, by and large, is the face of the defense forces, enjoys a great advantage and respect in society, the president is somewhere two or three steps lower there in terms of trust in his activities and also. and that is why, of course, ordinary ukrainians and especially the expertise of the film are quite painfully perceived, and i am not talking about the military, because you know that in relation to syrsky, they sometimes say that, despite his willingness to work in a decentralized regime, he is very he often uses soviet methods, and he is criticized, let's say, that he did not value the lives of ukrainian soldiers,

in particular they put e... in as a claim to bakhmut , it is difficult to evaluate it here, i am not a military historian or an expert, but i think that even military professionals will find it difficult to assess the role of bakhmut until the war is over, and until then it is impossible to look , to what extent it affected, let's say, our plans for the destruction of large volumes of russian forces and, above all, the most combat-capable wagnerites, so this criticism may be fair, may... be unfair, but in general, it is not a lack of clear communication with our partners and with ukrainian society, it gives rise to such a very cold perception of this decision, and was it a timely decision, considering the fact that now the congress of the united states of america has to consider the issue of allocating financial aid to ukraine, and of course, that on the one hand, the dismissal of zaluzhnyi, on the other hand

, a big interview. which was given to carlson by putin, and it also goes, let's say, to the audience, to the american audience for the most part, to the audience that influences american politicians, congressmen, senators and the president or candidates for the presidency of the united states of america, but it coincided in time, we just see how this personnel rotation actually took place, and this is a two-hour interview that was watched over there. there are already 10 million viewers on the social network xe, or is it just a matter of time? was it this recruitment? well, i don’t know what they were guided by, why exactly, because for the last few weeks, in fact , tsyamatics was very relevant in ukraine and there were completely different, well , there were contradictory signals that this is not being considered, that there is unity, and then everything

is considered. that is, of course, it is not understood, it is not clear why, if we look at what is happening in the congress of the united states, this is a process that is not tied to us, because there is a pre-election struggle, there is a struggle of the opinion of mr. trump, who wants to torpedo the compromise on immigration reform, so that he has something to go to the election, since this is the most painful issue for american voters, thank god, it was voted in the senate with ... 17 republicans, the decision and during the aid should be voted on in the next four days by the 12th, i think the senate will have no problem with that, we will have the biggest problems starting with whether mike johnson, the speaker of the house of representatives , will put it to a vote or what in a way, actually, the democrats, who are in the minority in the house of representatives, will be

able to harmonize in order to overcome ... this opposition, mike johnson, for him it is not just a question of the border or aid to ukraine , taiwan, israel, but it is a question of how much longer he will sit in this chair, because to him are already threatening that as soon as he puts ukrainian issues to the vote, then he will repeat the fate of his predecessor, who was expelled from there by the republicans, because he actually also wanted to put it to a vote... ukraine, if we are talking about an interview, i i watched it all, and you know, i really liked it, i liked it for several reasons, well, first of all, we see the progressive, mixed, bipolar-effective disorder of the fuehrer of the russian world, and he said a lot of such things that, well, in principle, do not go to the head , what it is said that he outraged the poles as well, i think that many germans as well.