not to use two years for the messages to actually come in, of course, this is such a bad story, so in the coming days 5-7, and for me, you know what is most interesting, not western, well, that is, western by itself, and as part of professional deformation we are looking at them , but it is very interesting for me, i know that there were many asian correspondents, there were latin american ones, this is how they will look at... those who are actually in a kind of quagmire, who is not for whom, but wants to sweat in some way also for his own profits, this is for me, if you like, such a criterion will be, but tell me, in principle, when we talk to the american audience, how much they can hear us, because now many people compare that the interview of vladimir putin on the fox tv channel, tokiro ka'.

it had millions and millions of views there , mind you, everyone quoted, here is the interview of volodymyr zelenskyy on the lux tv channel, it did not have such a large audience, but on the other hand , volodymyr zelenskyy talks to the media all the time, including american ones, and vladimir putin two i haven't talked to anyone for years, so it's completely different, i would said the level of interest should be, a person who does not say anything to anyone, a person who is in contact with you all the time, but they listen to putin not because they want him. and because it needs to be listened to and deciphered, it is a completely different story, and there is also the tucker phenomenon. tucker is the flagship of such ultra-conservative thought, at least that's how he presents himself, and he has tens of millions of views, i watched this interview there, 170 million, protested to my friends, many of them watched the interview, then not because they are fans of putin. and because

they hate him, so there's no need to count here, the arithmetic doesn't work like that here, in principle, you can say that this was the answer, but if you look at the american conservative audience and compare these two conversations, how much no-no , that is, fox is not a symmetrical audience to tucker, tucker has its own audience and fox has a lot of overlap, i think ... the place was chosen there unscathed, actually, but what takir says is listened to by people who they don't even listen to fox, that is, they are ultra, no, they call themselves that socially conservative republicans , it is not ultracon, this term reminds me, and such are so correct, correct, who know what their values ​​are, and for them, in fact, for many, international politics does not work in principle, but in this... environment there are actually

such very peculiar fans of putin, because , for example, i recently heard a podcast that blew my mind, mr. vitaly, putin was compared to the heroes of the old testament, well, that is, they say, well, he has the same values, there is something like that, yes realistically literally, sometimes i specially subscribe to podcasts in different niches, and here on... there is such a thing, that is , wherever it goes, but it may not be necessary to make some symmetrical answer, i would play with the idea sometime to use tucker , but under different conditions, and of course at another time, not now, there is no need to give an interview after putin, this is of course a bad idea, i agree here, but tell me, we are talking about a decrease in attention, so international to ukraine in the second year of the war. but

the head of the italian government also came from the other side george maloney, who is now the head of the group of seven, there was a meeting of the group of seven on the second anniversary of the attack, can this be considered in principle a decrease in attention, maybe it is simply being reformatted politically, well, we need the attention not only of politicians, we need human attention, but human attention attention is an emotion multiplied by how much... you are thought about in a day, they think about you for 2 seconds, 20 seconds, 2 minutes, 20 minutes, and the emotion must be constantly nourished, if there is no emotion, then it is very difficult, what milonia arrived , it's actually pretty cool if it's right now the wave, whatever it is, as there are, good right, bad right, not so much, well , milonia, she has her own logic, and if milonia doesn't stick, then... who will be

trump's right-wing conservative partner in europe, then orbán will say something like that, i am here, i am talking to everyone, i am talking to kramp , i am talking to putin, everyone is talking to erdoğan, well... of course i am, that's why we have to , of course, not pray, i'm here just kidding, but nevertheless, walking around her in such cute circles, she is really important in european politics can you be trump's partner if you support ukraine? it is possible , of course, and trump can support ukraine, what trump says today does not mean that he will say the same thing tomorrow, after tomorrow he will say something that contradicts what he said today and tomorrow, and it is absolutely normal for trump . a lot will depend on trump, which one he will have, i will not say the team there, well, okay, the team, the environment, the environment and what i hear, what kind of people are planned for various positions there, of course there are such interesting oddballs, but there are also very, very conscious people who have a good

understanding of geopolitics, that's why trump can actually listen, but trump needs to offer something, you can't talk with trump conceptually, say, well... now let's talk about the basics of geopolitics. trump will say: no, well, now tell me one, two, three and how to go from one to three. so, in fact, this is a conversation, even the way he communicates, you know, trump communicates with short questions and short answers, talk to him for 5 minutes, so that you speak, then everything, you can go out and forget about communication with trump, but i think it is possible to talk with him, although the risks with trump will definitely be crazy, crazy. and tell me if he speaks. about this peace forum , which the president and the head of his office spoke about again today, that this scheme, that we are holding a peace forum at the highest level, already speaking, switzerland is preparing this forum in the summer, and then there will be a second peace forum, and will invite russia to say what the terms of the end of the war are, i want to understand, let's say

, the political meaning, so far no one is saying that russia will be invited and when they will be invited, this is actually a game that revolves around the fact that many non-western countries say, well, that's it. now we need to talk with russia, since we have exhausted the agenda and without it, it doesn't really play like that, well but i believe that the value of this process is not so much in what and how the result will be, in the site itself, now there is only one site between the event and the non-event, where if necessary, it will be possible to speak, and it is twenty, and now... in closed different formats is discussed, and if, i emphasize, if the stars line up in such a way that we can speak, speak on our terms from a position of strength, then where to speak, and it should be twenty, but twenty under certain conditions may not work,

and then this format, where there is so sunset and not sunset, it can play, you can send a beam, you know, between two formats, like between glass, and then illuminate it. our agenda, that is, as far as i'm concerned, that's what it's all about, but there are also risks, because somebody might want to use it to legitimize some kind of consultative process, if necessary, with the participation of moscow, well of course, that is, you know that the future can be in one direction, and the future can be in another direction, and in my opinion, there are always opportunities, there are risks, but the format itself, in my opinion, it has added value. leychev will work, he will work if he plays very competently between 20 and them. it can be said that the death of oleksiy navalny reduced the west's interest in some kind of political consultations with the current moscow. vice versa. why? well, because of

this emotional surge, we understand that after putin's election there will be reformatting. the future of this personalized autocracy with security forces, which means that the west will look for some formats after, that is, on the one hand, many people already understand that there is no point in talking with putin, and on the other hand, how to pass that moment before when some other russia with which, in principle, you can talk, well... i believe that in the 25th year, this does not mean that the 25th year is some such year in which the stars aligned there, but there are a lot topics such as strategic weapons, such as space, such as the middle east, such as metals, such as resources, such as the green revolution, such as china, which,

i think they will come together at one point, like nuclear weapons, political, i understand your smile, nuclear weapons at one point exactly in the 25th year, but some things can spin, that, but this does not mean that they will start talking with putin and say putin, well, come on, this... can be a conversation in very harsh tones, well , look what happens if they continue to carry out budget expenditures, as now, by the end of the year, they have this welfare fund successfully transferred to another reincarnation and very curious what budget they proposed you saw, that is, the budget of the 24th year, but they always carry out budget planning for three years, the fifth and the sixth, so ... the year is fundamentally different from the 24th, they either need to cut something, or military

expenses, or social welfare , well, or a big war in the middle east and oil at 250, that is, something has to happen in the 25th year to pass it without explosions, so here, in fact, putin has certain incentives to think about the future from his putin logic, if he at all thinks in economic categories. i think he is thinks, not like you and i, but he definitely has an understanding of geopolitics, and he sees the world primarily through the prism of geopolitics, and geopolitics, as he understands it, is not the way sini understands it, not so, as biden understands her, not as he understands her, i don't know who scholz is there, he sees her as putin, so there is a temptation, you asked parts of the west to think, well, putin has nothing to do with him. there you can maintain some minimal contacts, but it is necessary not to explode and to prepare for some perspective. and

tell me, if we discuss this date 2030, which sounded today at the president's press conference, and volodymyr zelenskyi believes that this means the date that is for putin the finalization of his rule in russia, and it seems to me that this is the date when they would like to create this soviet union, they all the documents that we have seen in the media, they say that there are all measures to destabilize the situation in various... he meant something else, he also has relevant information that the kremlin is trying to engage in planning until the 30th year , in the sense of fighting against us, there is different options, but nevertheless he has this information, and he projects it accordingly, but this does not mean that it will last until the 30th year. this means a certain extreme option, in my opinion, and for it to actually come true, a lot has

to come together, if you ask me, it won't work, it won't work and evolutionarily, it won't work because of many black swans that 100% hit, i want to discuss the polish case, which has now also become incredibly important in the current situation of an unexpected crisis, but we will now add it to our conversation. polish an expert on international issues, the head of the poland-ukraine center dariush maternyk, congratulations, mr. dariush, good evening, congratulations , well, when we planned this discussion, we did not know that ukrainian grain would be scattered again in the area, so to speak, of the border , and from the railway, and this is again an emotional moment, and again the question of how to solve this crisis, so let's discuss with you, in principle, the recipe, mr. pavle, what to do or, maybe a polish colleague will say, and i will then it will be, it will be, it will be fairer, let's go

yes, mr. darish, sir, can you hear us, there, hello , something here, well, everything should be okay, something, today the wi-fi doesn't like us, no, everything was fine all the time, oh, now, now, isn't it better , here is your recipe. if you can ask a question, i said, i asked you about the recipe, your approach to what to do in kyiv and warsaw with this grain crisis. he can't hear us, but it will still be my recipe. let's get started, mr. pavle, and we'll join in once again, mr. dariusz. well, the crisis is actually, to begin with, it is not ukrainian, polish it just got all these horrible ugly signs on the border,

the blockade is happening all over poland, the same thing is happening on the german border, the same thing is happening in germany, in france, and the reason is that the common agricultural policy, which will also fall in the near future on our head during the preliminary negotiations, and it will fall quite seriously, it works quite well when these... in the world for food are high enough, and when they fall, then it all collapses, it is not known where, plus, the green revolution canceled subsidies, diesel and so on , so they are not at war with us at all, but at the same time the poles, they are being incited by this, there are of course people who competently work on this, it all happens on the border, the border should actually be free from that, but now tusk's government has only begun to play with

declaring the border and adjacent infrastructure critical. that is, it means that the border is a border, and the border cannot be blocked. you can, of course, stand with a poster, stand at the border, say something into the microphone, but no, that is, the problem is actually european, no one will sit down with us before the european elections so as to talk politically, so i believe that this should be resolved in several stages: first, to declare critical infrastructure, the border, and cut off blockades. put things in order, and then calmly talk to the european commission about how exports will look, i will throw you one more provocative thing, well, so that it is not sad, well, there is a mess on the polish border, well, i say such a mess carefully, there you can of course use another word , less in slovak, in hungarian you saw what was happening, everyone they are protesting in an almost organized manner, they are standing at

bus stops, the border is not blocked, more goods are passing through the hungarian border. much more than before the crisis, and why? that's why, that is, i understand that new, new connections are still being opened there, including passenger connections, well, it's a process, it's been necessary to do it there for a long time, when was the last time you were there, look at the border there, luzhanka, well, but nevertheless, we also work there, so it is moving, in fact, in a managed democracy , i do not want to throw stones in the direction of hungary, but nevertheless, many things work in... orban plays his strategy very consistently, and he knows how to fix, including crises on the border, and the farmers do not protest to him, so in poland, in my opinion, this story, it was not such a risk because that we're losing emotional control over the situation, that's what i even want to hear, the latest

survey by the council on foreign relations blew that away for me. excuse the brain, when 40% of poles already have a negative or partially negative attitude towards ukrainians, not to ukraine, but to ukrainians, and this is a trend we see, and that's enough, and more and historical ghosts are coming out, so we need to think about what to do right now, what to do after the european elections and what to do strategically in ukrainian-polish relations, since the polarization of politics there, in my opinion, is the same, if not more, than in the states, that is, there is a hundred... a wall, but we also somehow have to live with these poles, be friends both in the common eu and in the common nato, so that we can unblock the border in a day, in three, in a week, in a month, but the problem , as a challenge we cannot solve, it can only be done within the yesian framework, and that's it let's turn to mr. dariusz, i think we 've already connected with him, so please, mr.

dariusz, your view on this situation, thank you, well, actually, it's about... what our prime minister, donald tusk, said that these are crossing points, this will be a critical infrastructure and blocking cannot take place there, so i am waiting for the fact that it will actually be implemented, and the fact that we are now seeing these wagons from which ukrainian grain is spilled there

, this is not actually a border, but it is worse , because this is the kuyavian-pomeranian voivodeship, it is... safety in relation to representatives of such environments in

of poland, but on the other hand, it affects external relations now, in principle, we are discussing the economic situation, but politically, since yesterday, the leaders of the countries and the west were in kyiv, the president or the prime minister of poland, among them there was no information spread in the polish media , that kyiv refused the president at the last minute. whom i consider a great friend of the ukrainian people, no matter what controversial statements he made there, but he did a lot for ukraine in these two years, in his visit to the ukrainian capital, and when the presidential minister was asked in about it on polish radio, she did not deny it, she said that you simply see the fact that the president and the prime minister are not in kyiv, this is an even more negative situation than just grain, and today the french are calling me early in the morning... and they say, this , mr. minister, comment, well , there are no americans and no poles, it’s actually so cool, it sounds, but there are no americans and no poles, and this is a very emotional story,

tusk of course, under the conditions that 80% of poles, 80 % support this blocking, and there will also be local elections on april 7 super careful, he is a super super experienced politician. what i told the polish people, i keep saying, first of all, what they don't understand, we don't have in our genetic memory, because of the famine, this grain is scattered, it's simple, it's not an element of indignation, it's that something else, it's something that reminds us of our, our history, and the second point, of course, i understand that the russian special services work like hell there. but if we admit that they are successful in shaking the farmers, then the question arises that in poland the russian

the special services do almost everything they want, and then i have a very, very big question for our polish friends, actually, well, can't we trust them there, well, maybe not in the physical sense, but none the less, and with farmers are of course very difficult there... you can talk to them, but you can talk to a lot of them, i read it like this, what my polish friends from the pubs there send me from various chats, many people send specific demands there, want to talk to the government , wants to talk to the commission, well, after all, you can start this one conversation, and of course i understand that the russian special services could not have been done here, but if we here admit that they are not yet successful, god forbid, then this is a stone in our garden. and to the polish garden, and in general to the european one, and then we are in a completely different reality and we have to act proactively, in a completely different way. and further, in your opinion

, how does polish society perceive this cooling and the absence of its leaders in the ukrainian capital together with other leaders of western countries? well, actually you have to take into account what about what to this protest, i like as you said, 80% of prophets support this protest.

the majority of poles, who in one way or another remain pro-ukrainian, cannot be changed here, because now we have a protest, or there was not, let's say, the president in kyiv on february 24 of this year. thank you, i would like to thank darish maternik , polish expert, head of the poland -ukraine center for participating in this program, and i want to talk about europe and mr. orban's position, but tomorrow, in principle, the ratification of this should take place. welfare agreement on sweden's accession to nato, you can say, we are finalizing this beautiful story, it is very cool, and it is not about the fact that someone was broken, but about the fact that the expansion of nato cannot be stopped, this is actually the political logic of this, well, i think that viktor is also this i always understood, no , of course, but he plays his strategic game, he wants to become a partner of the big ones,

such as trump, and he wants to lead... conservative forces in europe, he wants to get money, positions in brussels, he is also tormented by scandals there , well , the life of politicians is difficult, and to be serious, this is very, very important, in my opinion signal. nato expansion, the west will never stop it, it can carefully conduct negotiations, it can pressure, maybe there is a whip, maybe there is a gingerbread, but you... the result is achieved, just like the opening of negotiations, like 50 billion. the west is also sometimes very difficult works, but so far the results are achieved and achieved very clearly, including in relation to nato, and as far as i am concerned, this is a result, there are two fundamental lessons, changes in geopolitics, one is the expansion of nato, and one is the expansion of the eu and the change of the borders

of europe, that ukraine is now europe. ukrainians, specifically europeans, here are these two geopolitical lessons, they have already really fallen on the head of today's russian regime, and it is very important that no one removes them afterwards, so that they remain and oppress. but the way this expansion process on the part of sweden took place in recent weeks, it is not a lesson for us in a certain constructiveness in relations even with the country, a tactic that is perceived, i would say, with a certain disgust, because the leadership... sweden , swedish society treated the hungarian position, i would say, even more harshly than the turkish one, so that they were not offered anything specific, well here president erdoğan told them clearly, change this, this, this and this, and we will vote, but prime minister orbán did not tell them any specific claims, he said, you have us you can say bow, and the prime minister of sweden, who said no, first to and then to talks, nevertheless came to budapest on friday, held

talks with orbán there. was very beautiful, the area said, i'm so pleased, but he got what he wanted, but on the other hand, maybe it's an approach, that's how european works politics, well, hungary is a super-difficult neighbor, but hungary is not an enemy, we cannot have an enemy and then be together with him in the eu and nato. hungary should become an ally, because we also have to rely on them, the fifth article, aka musketeer, one for all and all for one, so politics in... sometimes it's super complicated, all this logic, solidarity and so on, but we have to study, if you like, european politics, we start negotiations, build situational coalitions, i always think that with the hungarians it is necessary to talk not like with enemies, sometimes super hard, sometimes carefully, sometimes with pressure, sometimes letting go, but nevertheless we need...