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shustrova on the espresso tv channel. verdict with serhii rudenko. from now on in a new two-hour format. even more analytics, even more important topics, even more top guests. foreign experts, inclusion from abroad. about ukraine, the world, the front, society. and feedback. you can express your opinion on the bad day with a phone survey. turn on and turn on verdict with serhii rudenko. every weekday. from 20 to 22 for espresso. the premium sponsor of the national team represents: united by football, stronger together. trade, yes, trade is a very delicate and neat thing. olga

trofimtseva, minister of agrarian policy and food of ukraine in the 19th year and special envoy of the ministry of foreign affairs of ukraine, will talk about her further. mrs. olga, we congratulate you. good day, congratulations. mrs. olga, look, today there is a meeting between the two governments of warsaw, we just showed the footage, but this meeting is accompanied by a statement deputy prime minister for european integration stefanishyna that we do not have any platforms, vkontakte, and negotiations regarding. there are no farmers left and there are none, paradoxically, in fact, in fact, as far as i understand the statement in mrs. stefanyshyn's statement, stefanyshyn is talking about the fact that on the part of the polish government we see , let's say, limited, let's say , diplomatic readiness for some kind of compromises , and this is just another confirmation for you and me that this is really quite a difficult situation with our neighbors. and we

see it from the latest statements, including one of the ministers of the polish government, yes , accordingly, the situation remains quite tense, we will see what the results will be, we hope, you speak very diplomatically, look, the hope was for a new pro-european coalition government, the minister of agriculture from a party that literally prays to the sacred a cow called a polish farmer. we were just told this directly from poland, and accordingly they waved, that is, the minister waved the ban on transit, which violates all the instructions of the european commission to brussels. what to do with it? and here, first of all, you already mentioned brussels, in fact, will there be a ban on transit at all, i still hope not, and that is precisely why there are, rather, certain expectations, yes, before today's bilateral meeting. because after all, the ban

on transit is, well, in my opinion, it is really unfounded and already too much of a decision, and i would say such an unreasonable one that raises a lot of questions for everyone, including, by the way, in poland directly, where i am also now accordingly, if we talk about brussels like this, then this one is here from the very beginning situations in fact, and you and i also told our viewers on the air that it would still be good to have at least... a clearer and, i would say, such a quick reaction from brussels in some situations, especially when it comes to about it is an open crime or a violation of the same rules, as you rightly said, which are generally accepted in the countries of the european union, as an economic union, but we see that again, unfortunately, in the case of brussels, firstly, on the one hand, they are trying to act very carefully, and on the other hand, these steps are too are accepted, well, for a long time, this

bureaucraticism or attempts to solve all the issues, nevertheless somehow carefully looking for just such compromising approaches, and sometimes it is, in my opinion. where it plays a not very good role for relations, including trade relations with ukraine. ms. olga, transit is one issue, we hope that they will be able to untie it all to some such previous relations, at least partially, but there is also the issue of the import of agricultural products, and we understand that the poles are not satisfied in principle, because everything is not with us such and everything is not so good and not of good quality and so on, and their... their goods are squeezed from the market, but they say that it seems that kyiv and warsaw have already almost agreed on this import, what do you know about this agreement, about what , what it might look like and how much we

will gain or, on the contrary, lose from it, and we are talking about clearer regulations, it is meant, in fact, this was discussed last year as well, and here it is somehow big... there is nothing new, this is language it is about the actual bilateral licensing of certain groups of goods, in the first place first of all, we are talking about the main cereals and deer, which are of great concern to our polish colleagues, so accordingly, i hope that an agreement will be reached on this, indeed, and exactly how it will all work, including in order to the transit did not stop, but because on the one hand we know, we saw with you that according to the applications to... government officials, and this really corresponds, let's say, to the real picture that, after all, the majority of such raw agricultural agricultural products , first of all we export and try to export by sea through the ports of great odesa or through the danube ports, but the transit of a large amount of products,

finished products, semi-processed products through poland is also available for us , well, let's put it this way, it is economically attractive for us, so we would not like it. .. these transit routes are to be lost, here and here in parallel, let’s not forget that the process of extending these so-called autonomous trade preferences is underway by the european commission, and here, too, we need to carefully monitor and not let go of this process also from, let's say so, from our point of view, because we know that this week the decision was made by the ambassadors of the european union taking into account, partially taking into account, let's say so, what exactly they wanted to achieve. and poland, but now we have such a limited, limited window of time before the elections of the european parliament, will the european parliament and the european commission have time to vote on these proposals, because it is important for us that we invest until the month of june, and we

do not have let's say so, this process has not been interrupted free trade between the european union and ukraine. ms. olga, but it is ukrainian-polish. which we look at in the prism , there is another one, in fact, on march 20, that is, a week has already passed, as the ministers of agriculture of lithuania, latvia, estonia, poland and the czech republic, as well as the eu and the european commission, have already openly addressed themselves, because it is not about ukrainian agricultural production, but it is about russian agricultural production under the guise of belarusian, and in fact there is such a small penny attempt to solve something, but... lithuania is completely different leads, they have actually restricted imports , everything is taken care of, a ban has actually been introduced for russian, well, but it doesn’t solve anything, because if you can’t take it through lithuania, then you take it through another country, and accordingly it should be centralized throughout the european union, a week has passed,

no answer is heard, so what? not here, we saw with you, first of all, what really, i think, is the decision which concerns russian imports. of russian agricultural products, regarding the increase in import tariffs, yes, there was talk about import tariffs, this is not a ban, so what about you you know, the reason here is very simple, in order to introduce a general ban on the territory of the european union, imports require a unanimous decision of all member countries, and here we understand that there are nuances, unfortunately, in the european union itself, and accordingly, i think so, that the european commission, having assessed these risks, decided after all not to ... on this path, because you can stumble upon, let's say, get into halepa, and with such a vote, and accordingly decided to first introduce these tariffs, which in fact really do this russian products are uncompetitive, that is, in principle, this will nullify

the need to export them here in general, but this does not mean that we need to stop at the demands for a complete ban, because once again, what kind of trade can there be with the country... a terrorist , which uses all over the world, and it has already been recognized by absolutely all politicians, experts, food as a weapon, which can be trade and which imports from there, so it should be prohibited unequivocally. you heard how mrs. olga diplomatically never before orban and fitz were not called a nuance, i think that they would not like it, absolutely, but ms. olga, also regarding this trade with the eu, because the poles somehow managed to agree, to convince, i don’t know what manipulations there were or what arguments tusk gave , but they convinced macron that... well, it will not be like that now, these import conditions will not be as useful for ukraine, as good for us as we would

like, it is said that when setting customs quotas, not only time will be taken into account , when the war began, yes, when increased this import, as well as the 21st year, the second half of the 21st year, when this import was at a low level, and we still, in essence, those negotiation processes with each specific country... but we have not started to a large extent, we will be able to we will break through and negotiate on more favorable terms with each specific country in the future, because if there are such difficulties with macron, who has recently been making a bit too much of an image for himself on the issue of ukraine, well, you know, in fact here, as i said, here are these the decisions have already been approved by the ambassadors of the eu countries, so that's it stage something is changing. it is unlikely to be possible and we now only have to wait for the final decision on march 29, 29

and wait for the european parliament and the european commission to approve this liberalization for us, of course , well, let's just say it's not the best option that we proposed and which was originally on the table, yes , in the european commission, precisely with regard to taking into account the upper, let's say yes, borders of our ex'. to the european union of products that would be taken as the upper limit for the year 22-23, they added the 21st year, but here, you know, this is not poland, and i have to tell you that precisely in france, this is also a country where the farming lobby, or not only the farming lobby, but the agricultural lobby, let's call it that, is very powerful, and which is quite strong affects political decisions and politicians, and... however, i think that the communication of the representatives

of the agrarian sector with mr. macron or with him and his cabinet, let's say this, so directly, played a role here, which also affected that he connected or let's say supported here this is poland's position, the most important thing for us once again, the most important thing for us in fact is that these autonomous trade preferences remain in general, and that they should be. even with these restrictions there or with the upper border there, it is important for us that this instrument continues to work, because it means in general, yes, this openness of the borders of the european union for ukrainian agricultural products, and it still means that without tariffs , without any other restrictions, so -called non-tariff barriers, the same tariff quotas and so on, we can move, and this the most important thing, that's why i would like to know here, you still need to look at the situation... complexly, given that, as we see, it is very difficult, that is to focus on the main thing and on

the main issues, which are the most important for us, well critical, i would say, for economic survival. ms. olga, thank you, we will hope for the results of today's government meeting, maybe we should have stopped by at our premiere and said, good afternoon, i also called you charles michel, maybe that would have given a better result, well, let's wait, okay, we thank you. we spoke with olga trofimtsiva, she was the acting minister of agrarian policy and food in the 19th year, and is an ex-ambassador on special assignment from our ministry of foreign affairs. and we have already contacted our next guest, marko sovytskyi, architect and leader of the ukrainer project of urban renewal. glory to ukraine, mr. mark, glory to the heroes, congratulations, we will, i will briefly announce to our tv viewers what we will talk about. such a documentary project is called renewal of cities, it is actually, as the name says, about

restoration, and today the premiere of the first issue of the new season about the borodyan territorial community starts, and that is why we want to ask you to tell us in more detail, tell us more, you personally, what struck you during the work on this new series, what would you turn to attention and main... why is it worth watching today? let's start with the fact that the project itself, of course, according to its name, it is archival, it is... it is interesting from the point of view that we are now talking a lot in society about whether rebuilding ukraine or building a new ukraine, and should we do it now? and the project itself, it was conceived as a project that shows vivid and interesting examples of such movements of reconstruction not only of architectural

objects, but of the reconstruction of communities, and when i was invited to this project, here we are a union... with the ukrainer team, we talked about what they agreed on was that restoration is not only about walls, it is not only about some construction objects, infrastructure objects, first of all it is about people, and this was my principled position, despite what i am an architect by education, i have been engaged in some reconstruction and restoration projects for the past two years. a full-scale invasion, and i emphasized that let 's talk more about people in the new season, because the basis of any reconstruction is people, it's their stories, and just as we started filming, today the episode about the warthog comes out, we had with the team several objects that were restored, that

were built from scratch, uh, and we what you are talking about... more impressed, we, talking with our heroes, looking around infrastructural facilities, looking at the projects that were rebuilt with the help of our foreign partners, every story is most impressed by the story of the people themselves, and this struck me the most that when talking about architecture, about roads, about the restoration of schools, lyceums, kindergartens, it is always so bright , a bright... moment in each story is the story of a specific person who sings, has a beard - after all, it is about such communities that, well, such a heartland, let's use someone else's word, this is the kind of territory that, as andruhovich wrote, this land can be eternal, even the piles are sprouting new seedlings, and what

to do is up to you, since you have the experience of communicating all these stories, you are talking about restoration. communities and people, but what to do with such an option, well, you saw what they did with bakhmut in rusnia, what does avdiivka look like, sooner or later somewhere we will have to return to these lands, everything there has been leveled to zero, well , well, they will build, maybe something more modern than soviet architecture, but the community will never return there, and those who survived this occupation were left to see for themselves what kind of people, or old infirm people. or those who are called zhduns, and how you see restoration there, that is why we decided to talk about people, because there is no sense in either restoration or building a new one, where there are no people, very often in our society there is such a phrase, i really like the war of recipes, how we will rebuild, and what we

will restore, post-soviet ukraine, i think it is wrong, we need to build a new one. ukraine considering people, people-centered, people-oriented architecture, and when we talk about such cities like bahmud, as we talk about avdiivka, these cities need to be rethought from the point of view of who will return, and how to form them, or maybe there is no one there anymore, but i have friends who say that we will never return there, i there are friends from luhansk who say, no, well , they say, in my prayers i say, god, throw me away, i will never return there. here is an example for you, and these are sufficiently motivated people who were part of this urban environment, if people do not want to return there, then what to do? so, by the way, our project provides such shows examples of how to do infrastructure restoration so that people want to come back, and we try to highlight those projects, because

there are a lot of restoration projects, a lot of buildings are being restored, there are more than 200 projects. that are currently being implemented, we highlight those projects that will become such a beacon that people will want to return to, not the fact that they will return, but they will want to return, because it is impossible, for example, to simply rebuild houses and wait for people to return, you have to think who we want to see in that community who is ours we need, how, how, which, which is the narrative of our community, who we are and what is our future, and our project just shows, will testify. these questions, what is our community for, we invite visionaries who tell their dreams, how they see this community, this village, this town, and we give it... the opportunity not to have an answer to the question of how to rebuild or build a new one, but gives the vector where we are going, and this project is ours, it is, in my opinion, and

this is my dream, and the dream of the team for sure, it will become such an example for other communities that have different destructions, it will not be an example of what exactly we should do the same, but it will make them think about which way, which algorithms to follow in order to protect their communities, their objects, because we also give concrete examples, we don't just discuss , we don't just reflect, in each series we have our own examples of practical recovery, where to turn, where to get funds, how to work with foreign funds, how to cooperate or how to put pressure on local authorities in communities so that the process moves a little , and the main emphasis that was in one series on gostomel, we... spoke with valery kharchyshyn, who said a phrase that really resonates with me, that the time while we are waiting is our life, so

we need to do the processes of community restoration, deal with community mobilization, not here and now waiting for our victory, which will definitely happen, but all those processes must be done here and now, because this is our life, there will be no other way, mr. margo, we have two minutes left until the end of our broadcast, i also want to ask if there is already experience ... at least planning the reconstruction of the population points that have been destroyed, and where people may want to return, where there are communities, communities have moved somewhere, for example, the same kherson region, the south of ukraine, we understand, the entire coast on the right bank, it is actually a ruin, here the question is more about safety, it is impossible to return to cities where there is real security, if we are talking about people, we cannot force people to return to places where their lives are safe, cities where already... a certain de-occupation has come, where life is coming to life, but in those cities it is already worth restoring, well, to restore one's life, the life of the community, v

in other cities, the emphasis is rather on security moments, storage facilities, on shelter, on logistics, transport, so there must be an individual approach to each region, you cannot cover the whole country with a single recovery map and do some work on it, mr. marko, the last minute is just like that phyllo we can make a leap or not, don’t we have to look like this in time to demolish all this all this horror of soviet architecture, no one would dare, no government, but it was really scary and depressing, especially in many industrial centers of the east, there are many of them destroyed, we will be able to make an architectural leap, does it make sense not to rebuild, to build a new one? yes, i absolutely agree, i am a supporter of the fact that it is necessary to build new ones in those moments where our post-colonial , post-soviet thinking has built

some kind of life simulators, that is , all this must be demolished, if the five-story building, khrushchev, is demolished, then you can safely build in its place modern planning for our people , a modern residential building that corresponds to the concept of dignity of life, thank you, this is actually... a vision for us also very pretty, her name is oksana, we talked with the architect and project leader, this is from ukrainer urban renewal mark sovytskyi, watch another series today, the premiere, well, it's time to say goodbye, take care, have a peaceful, safe day, stay with espresso, because in a few minutes khrystyna parubi will tell about the most important thing. tired of heavy and bulky saws? then pilka strong from razpak tv. just for you. with it you can easily cut trees and

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by football, together stronger. we summarize the informational morning in ukraine on the air of the news, khrystyna parubiy works in the studio. in the capital of poland, the official visit of the prime minister of ukraine denys shmagal. intergovernmental consultations and a joint meeting with polish colleagues will take place. our correspondent maria chernyakhivska, who is currently in warsaw and

knows the details, will tell you more. maria, congratulations. you have a word.