we continue the berber program, this is a joint project of the tv channel and the first crimean-tatar tv channel of the apr, in the studio of gultsum khalilova, my colleague, i am andriy yanitsky, and today's second guest, boris babin, ex-representative of the president of ukraine in the autonomous republic of crimea. mr. borys, congratulations, good day everyone, so the black sea security conference of the international crimea took place in bulgaria. platform, your colleague was there and i know you know the details of what was discussed there, what the significance of this conference is for the future the liberation of crimea, tell us in more detail, and why bulgaria in your opinion, well , look, this conference is already the second, it is the black sea security conference, so it is held in the black sea countries, last year it was romania, and it was the first conference, the responsible authorities in from the ukrainian side, there are primarily the ministry of defense and the ministry of internal affairs, so... this is a certain specificity of this

conference, it is expert in a certain dimension, that is, experts gathered on the first day, diplomats, representatives of the participating states on the second day crimean platform. what can be said here? first of all, it is good that it is being held, it is good that we are learning to be consistent, because this is an annual conference, it should take place and provide an appropriate update. my colleague olesya tsibulka also from the association for the reintegration of crimea had the opportunity to speak at this conference. what can be said. about its importance: first of all, it is necessary to strengthen the institutional capacity of the crimean platform, especially in the expert dimension, and therefore my colleague and i, let's say, remotely, we just presented those the improvements that were previous, which were carried out by the qatar resource center, at the future of crimea strategic forums, we held three of them in the last two years, just the last forum, which was held in march, it was dedicated to institutional improvement. these

crimean platforms are primarily an expert network, because if we have an expert network, it should work, so experts should give what they are called experts, not because i came to the tv studio in a crib, yes, but because i have to give a certain intellectual a product, a certain significant, as they say, cost price, which is then put on the table, put on the table by member states, international organizations, in order for a person to write something, it is necessary that, first, someone pays something for it, second, that she bear responsibility and had a certain status, but we already have... years of the crimean platform, and for a while we do not see answers to these questions, and that is why the relevant internal regulatory documents have just been worked out, you know, it is a purely tedious job, first of all, at first glance bureaucratic, we they don't like bureaucracy, we like slogans, so that a person spoke with a beautiful high platform, said something, then she left this platform and what's next, so what's next, we worked, the corresponding improvements will be provided to the crimean platform itself, and the expert network, then the ball is in their court, they want, let them approve, don't want, let... and continue to exist as they exist, i

mean precisely the expert dimension, and with regard to the international dimension, it is also important, we have to prepare certain interstate agreements, what not less, with regard to the office of the crimean platform, it is not institutionalized, it should be fixed, not only at the level of the declaration, it is good that they are approved, but at the level of certain agreements, so that this system grows into what we call a mechanism, what we we call certain structural movements, and that it was precisely the network that unites the states. which unites in permanent interactions, it should be an international staff, it should be relevant offices and so on, a full-fledged international supranational structure, then it will work, sir maris, as far as i understand, the very idea of ​​the crimean platform was born when there was an idea to return crimea by diplomatic means even before the full-scale military invasion of russia, and then it seemed that the topic of crimea was fading in the international information space, so we came up with this format crimean platform, let's attract the world's attention to ... to the crimean issue and

we will somehow spread it, increase it, now already in the dimension of a full-scale invasion, when a hot war is going on, and when something actually explodes on the territory of crimea every day, and we see that crimea will still be freed by the force of ukrainian arms, no sooner than by diplomatic efforts, what is the role of the crimean platform, it is preparing the adaptation, reintegration of crimea, you see, first of all, the fact that it was created is actually very good, because it is a platform. should discuss our word crimea, it is very convenient, you know, to talk about coffee in yalta, there is a cheburek or a shed, it gives insults, but there is another dimension, there is a dimension of real integration into the occupation, there is a dimension of violation of international law, crimea became a precedent and a negative precedent of attempted annexation, so that's it precisely this mechanism of the crimean platform, it was a very successful step, so if we recall the history of the crimean platform, then it was created even before the full-scale invasion, as an instrument of such diplomatic influence in the world on... countries in order to raise and make

the crimean issue more visible , and then it seemed that this was the right way, because there were no other tools, but today we see that during the already hot phase... of the war in crimea, something explodes every day, and we understand that crimea will be liberated by ukrainian forces weapons, here diplomatic efforts, they already take second place, what role does the crimean platform now have, what does it do, preparing crimea for deoccupation, reintegration or measuring the situation that is currently in crimea , what is its role? look, well , first of all, really, when it was created, it was a platform for increasing attention to crimea, but not only in terms of, you know, such purely pr, very convenient. to say there is coffee tomorrow in yalta, the day after tomorrow there is a concert in yalta, there are chibureksarai, it adds likes, yes, for it is normal for politicians, but there is another dimension, there is the dimension of real work, yes, and that is why this step was really timely then, because it was not something diplomatic, as they say, table talks,

i.e. conversations, it was just putting it on the agenda crimea as a precedent, a negative precedent, an assassination attempt, an encroachment on the entire world legal order, according to the rules of the game recognized by civilized people. nation, and so it shot, as they say, and our enemies took it very painfully, because they knew what it could do bring as for how to liberate crimea, you know, this is a mantra about diplomatic ways, i can say who wants, let me check that i always said a very simple thing, it is impossible to return something that was taken by military means, not by military means, even if we are conducting a return without... let's imagine, let's imagine, without active hostilities, it should still be a military operation, because the russians occupied crimea in february 2014, with little blood, yes, but exactly a military operation , and other ways, as they say, of controlling the territory during there is no armed conflict, so all these

mantras are mantras, yes, and we are people of the real world, so as an example, it is really important that today within the crimean platform there is at least this separate security mechanism, which is carried out by, let's say, more... military , than diplomats, despite this, despite this, in terms of ways and strategy, we have to work out our agenda, but just today we and our colleagues from several ministries held just such a security conference already in kyiv, and it is very simple, look, in today there are already nine of us agreements on the security and support of ukraine, which we signed this year, great britain, germany, france and so on, the czech republic is preparing there, and we will be grateful to any country of the civilized world that is with us this year. signs, an agreement with the united states is being prepared, and in these separate agreements, there is such a position: assistance to ukraine in preparing plans and strategies for reintegration into the occupied territories. on the one hand , it's great that our partners are saying that we really need to reintegrate it, right? on the other hand, it is such a bell because it means that

our partners understand that we are not all right with these plans, that we need help, and this, sorry, is a certain diagnosis, if it is even spelled out in the agreements. what we see today, but these departures, they have recommendations, in the help, no, this is a contract, this, excuse me, and your majesty, or simply, we have seen many contracts, which, unfortunately, over time did not have their effectiveness with security, for example, the budapest memorandum, the budapest memorandum is a piece of paper, and those who signed it should actually be responsible for the fact that it was signed in in this way, these agreements, this is not a piece of paper, uh, these are more very serious things, so that you understand, the agreement with great britain... it is the duty of ukraine to help great britain in the event of an attack on great britain, this can be taken skeptically, but a long time ago great britain made a similar agreement with portugal, it was in the 14th century, that's how they still do it, so you understand how

civilized countries in this world treat this kind of paper, as you say, it's not paper, it's very important , and today is an example, you know, with all due respect to all countries, to have these agreements, these are agreements with the united states... which today, says mr. yarmak from the times magazine, we have to believe him that it is being prepared for signing, but at the same time in the same congress of the united states they have to vote for aid to ukraine, and what they say is that aid to ukraine, and most likely it will be voted on, will be tied to some kind of commitment to the white house to develop a strategy for helping ukraine, that is, there must be a certain plan, and most likely this will be announced. and if we have a certain plan, there there must be something, a strategy for the reintegration of de-occupation, right, and here ukraine has to put something on the table, and when we held the second strategic forum future of crimea with mr. bariyev, and we gathered a lot of experts, very different people, but then when we presented in ukrainform, one

respectable person, it was not me who said it, but a former adviser to one of the prime ministers, currently he is a doctor of sciences, a professor, and he was taken aback, you know that we researched this plan, we wrote it on 40 sheets. our comments have been sent it to the relevant ministries of vienna, we didn't even publish it, because we can't publish it, i'm sorry, in the conditions of war, but he said, it's very good that this document is written in such a way that it's just... it's impossible to translate it into english, there such ukrainian bureaucratic language, such constructions, they simply do not translate, and this, as they say, no matter how tragicomic it sounds, it is good, because if it is translated and put on the table of our partners, it would be sabotage, you understand, because if they will read, but they don't have to provide aid under these documents, and not only funds, i'm sorry, because this is a military component and a financial component for aid that ukraine vitally needs, it doesn't matter, we don't have the right to submit it to our partners for consideration. excuse me with all due respect for some strategies about cognitive milioration, because these strategies

are read by our partners, and they decide to give us the funds for this, which we vitally need in terms of war, or not? we all have to understand that such things cannot be treated, sorry, as things for collection of likes, as for things for internal, excuse me, use, this is currently a vital issue of the ukrainian state, quality plans for reintegration, we talked about this in sofia, well, my colleagues, well, what about the strategy for ensuring the security of the black sea water area, we are in the framework of this conference already agreed or not? there were a lot of different topics, and there are achievements, well, for example, this year, russia, the aggressor state, was excluded from the donat commission, ugh, this is a very even path , in fact, from many dimensions, starting with the fact that today the danube is a vital trade artery for us, and i will not even discuss the military component, but the international component is clear, because russia sat there as the legal successor of the ssr, not a danube state. integration of crimea and other

things proved that there was a violation, it was excluded, this is important, this is the second organization that i know, the first was the council of europe, from which russia was excluded for violating international law, and we have to work further, we have a situation with in turkish, turkey as a key player in the black sea region, turkey vitally it is important for us and for further support and the resistance of the crimean people against. aggression and support of our efforts to occupy crimea, we have to work with this country, we have to prove that we have a common position regarding security in the region, regarding various dimensions of its security, well, for example, you know, maybe there is such a thing as the syrian express , yes, when the aggressor transports cargo to syria, it is stolen grain, and military equipment, and something in syria, to the ports of the black sea, perhaps you know, among other things, that syria is not just a regime that destroys its own population, what they build their budget on, the so-called, you know, they have little left there for the drug trade,

syria has become a supplier of drugs for the entire arab world, for a large part, well in general, i will limit so carefully, the eastern world, yes, and this is transported in particular to the occupied crimea, excuse me, by bulkers, sea vessels, and this is already, excuse me, a dimension, even one that goes beyond the traditional dimensions of security, and by the way, these nine agreements , he just mentioned it, they put it there the risks that... emanate from our occupied territories, individual risks we hardly even discuss in general, an example is organized crime, which uses the occupied territory as a gray zone, respectively, and this is precisely what worries many countries, and we have this concern share them and give them, then they give hints on how to help us with this, because as an example, the same occupation administrations, so-called in the occupied crimea and in melitopol, and in henichisk, they are merged with the mafia, that's right, it's not easy. of course, the russians rely simply on criminals, you know, not just collaborators or criminals against the state, well, this is

a general criminal crime, for example , human trafficking, yes, pedophilia, sorry on an industrial scale, so that you understand the situation regarding crimea, and this issue we have to put on the table of our partners with evidence and proof, and not just to learn to respect to talk about the cognitive impact on the population of the occupied territory, and meanwhile we see on the territory of the occupied peninsula. as russia initiates, continues to initiate criminal cases regarding representatives of, for example, crimean solidarity, and this week we saw that russia opened the next criminal case, administrative proceedings against lyutvie, khanum zodiyeva and other crimean tatars, and also this week there was news that russia is planning, planning to call up 15,000 more people to his army. here's how you rate this latest news and whether it's available now. any recommendations for citizens of ukraine who live in the territory of the temporarily occupied

territory, how to escape from the ranks of the russian army of the russian federation, you know, here it is the problem is old, and there are always conflicting answers to it, why, because we have slogans and there is life, well, certain slogans, so not by example, so go and go to prison, also, by example , the general question is how to be a crimean tatar in this situation, there are two options, to wait. to leave, someone says, from respectable people, wait, the question is what can wait, you understand, my advice to everyone who is in the risk zone to leave the occupied territories, you can return. it's tragic, it's a very tragic story, to leave it historical homeland, i understand that, but it is better to return alive, to return one's own family, than to become another victim of the occupiers, this choice, it must be, and today we see that directly, let's say, this may most likely, well, maybe it won't be of the ukrainian flag over bakhchesarai, and in these situations

it is impossible to say that everything will be fine tomorrow already tomorrow, you know that, it is certain, as they say, such is the responsibility. to say, and so i would advise to always assess the situation in the following way: if you are in a risk zone, and the risk zone is very wide, in fact, it is any conscripted crimean tatar youth is any person who has done anything socially active in his life, he is a believer, yes, because we see how they painfully treat any truly religious person, this applies not only crimean tatars, they persecute several religious groups, for them any unification, not simply, as they say from above, but any unification from below on the basis of the separation of certain... spiritual values, for them it is a danger. and therefore such a person to be there on the peninsula is a risk zone, and i always am said, the number of political prisoners in crimea is determined only by the occupation system, how much they will be able to digest, and i'm sorry, to fight them simply with help or help to families or by increasing this attention to international platforms, all this should be done,

but it will not solve the problem, it drain the sea with a spoon, tomorrow we will free 20 people, we will exchange them, there will be some mechanism, the day after tomorrow 100 new ones will be imprisoned, well, because the whole people are simply hostages, yes the whole people, and in order for the people not to be hostages, the number of hostages should be reduced, it's sad but this is the truth from which we must proceed. well , that is, is it correct, i understand that, well, now we see that there are negotiations between ukraine and turkey about the release of crimean tatar prisoners, but we saw news in the meantime that russia does not really want to release the crimean tatars, crimean tatars in particular, regarding prisoners of war, there are still to... but if we are talking about political prisoners, russia simply does not want, what do you think, why? well, look, the question is that there is a question of exchanging prisoners of war, often the aggressor is interested, as they say, in exchanges to get certain categories of their prisoners of war, it's not a secret, so they go for it in general, yes, with regard to

civilian hostages, they have a standard position, it's very difficult, they are very reluctant to go for it, of course, you can always offer such, as they say, customers that they cannot refuse, but there are certain questions here, but do we have these customers, right? here is a question for our law enforcement officers, we have a huge number of bodies regarding crimea, we see a lot of certain decisions in absentia, this is correct, let it be in 10 years, at least something it will be done, but let’s be honest, if we had more arrests of those collaborators who are on the mainland, believe me, they are there, here we should have not only certain legal knowledge, but a certain political will, for example, regarding those still the owners of real beneficiaries, businesses in crimea , yes, if we had several such business beneficiaries, well, we model them, they are behind bars, like medvedchuk, would mr. putin or his crimean henchmen agree to an exchange, this is a lot of money, these are the beneficiaries,

they know a lot, believe me, they would exchange all the crimean tatar hostages, but for this requires political will. and as for the role of turkey? turkey is an intermediary that has its own interest. turkey has many interests of its own, and they should be treated with respect. it is a sovereign independent state, it has democracy as the basis of governance, there are democratic, competitive processes, and a lot of interests in turkey depend on geostrategic interests, the political interest of the competition of political forces, we see the results of local elections, they are, let's say, bleak, for some painful, for some joyful, but the next election will follow, and so on this, and it affects the politics of turkey, and the third situation, with all due respect to turkey , is the economic crisis, uh, there is an economic crisis, and today they have, well, they want, frankly, to have economic profits from all sides, this is our life we have to take this into account,

that's why we have to perceive such mediation taking into account these three factors, as they say, and these three factors are objective and this... that it's not us, we can't criticize for turkey, it's their life, of course, it is interesting that in the occupied, in the occupied crimea, russian is spoken the authorities began to detain not only crimean tatars, not only ukrainians, yesterday there was news that they detained russian neo-nazis who seemed to organize their activities with imperial flags, such interesting people all wearing tattoos with various elements similar to the swastika, what are they? the principle that if you are a russian nationalist, then you are safe, if you are disloyal to putin, they will come to you anyway, that was all the time, what would be the specifics

before the 22nd year, look, i said this many times, this is a mantra of some sort diplomatic ways, yes , unfortunately, this is a policy with which someone tried to fight, then had problems because of it, so someone simply turned a blind eye to it, when we talk a lot about political prisoners there. about crimea and we allow the most powerful ukrainian beneficiaries to have a business there, we do not punish collaborators, a person who just lives in crimea, as they say, who, excuse me, has some life experience there, she sees it all, she perceives it critically, correctly, and she understands that the situation before the 22nd year, which , unfortunately, is the situation of this gray zone, who was there for a long time, a person adjusts his life, the life of his children, he mostly does not perceive the occupiers as a just and legitimate authority. this is normal, but she understands that this is for a long time, and that is why a lot of people, both crimean tatars and non- crimean tatars, this challenge is common here, they did not

show their public position until the 22nd year, as they say, so that it is them, as they say, you know, like the soviet era, people always kept this muzzle, as they say, in their pockets, and then in 1991, everything changed, although it seems that everyone voted, as it were they say for lenin, stalin, and others like that, so they say the rest, the question is, what has changed, after the 22nd year, two things have changed, it will end, the great war cannot go on for centuries, it is now the 12th century, the great war will end in a few years the defeat of russia in one or another format, this will necessarily lead to a change in the situation in crimea, as is the second question, but there will definitely be a change, and absolutely everyone from the gauleiter of crimea to the last understands this, as the crimean homeless say, what will change is the first the second the second is the second it is important - this the maximum total persecution of a ukrainian, that is, for the very fact that you are not just a citizen of ukraine there, or you are an ethnic ukrainian, or you just know,

you sing a ukrainian song, they began to persecute you for that, and thirdly, these are crimes, or war crimes committed on controlled territory territories, murder, fratricide, let's put it bluntly, those terrible things that the russian federation and the posypaks did, these three factors, they affect the consciousness of any crimean. people simply cannot keep silent physically, they have a normal person, that's it she can't control herself, that's why it's a wave, and that's why this phenomenon has become thousands, they, look, in two years, about a thousand people so far, thank you very much, thank you, this is a signal that crimeans are already waiting for the liberation of crimea and understand that this whole system is collapsing. boris babin was on our air, ex-representative of the president of ukraine in the autonomous republic of crimea, as well as gulsum hali-khalilov. that's andriy yatskyi yanitskyi and yes, thank you for being with us and see you soon korosh kenju

on saturday polyclub on the tv channel espressa andrii smolii and vitaly portnikov today we traditionally. on saturday, we discuss all the most important events of ukraine and the world, and we already have our first guest, vladyslav seliznyov, military expert, colonel zasu, former spokesman of the general staff of the armed forces of ukraine, congratulations mr. vladyslav, colleagues, i congratulate you and glory to ukraine, glory, so , let's talk about how do you think the situation at the front looks now? it seems to me that now the russian army of occupation has a certain window of opportunity, and it is due to the fact that the ukrainian... defense is critically lacking in key components that provide the firepower of our units. it is about artillery, ammunition for that artillery, the aviation component and the

air defense system. i hope that in the near future we will hear good news from across the ocean, but the crow is in a hurry, regardless of what decision is made today in the american congress, the enemy is in a hurry to take maximum advantage of this situation, when we are frankly short of artillery ammunition. general tativ notes that now the ratio of artillery shells is not in favor of ukraine, for one ukrainian shell there are about 10 russian ones, president volodymyr zelenskyi notes that for one ukrainian plane there are 30 russian ones, that is, the ratio of forces and means is definitely not in our favor, only the number with the enemy's own aerial bombs used or their analogues based on guided aerial bombs, during the first two weeks of april. amounted to 1200, i think that the rate of use of this type of weapons will continue to grow, and this means that the ukrainian army, being in strategic defense, is subjected to a lot of

fire pressure from the side. of the enemy's army, and if we constantly hear in the news reports that the situation in the chasov yara area, south of marinka, west of avdiivka, is extremely difficult, we should also understand that the situation in the kupinsko-liman direction is no less difficult, in particular precisely in the limansky direction, the situation is not easy in the south of the zaporizhzhia region, in particular in the rabotino region and in the staromykhaylovsky region, i.e. the situation on the field battle is determined by the de facto total advantage in... a good army, well, accordingly, by the stability in the defense of the ukrainian defense forces, and here we must give due credit to a certain volume of tasks, regarding the construction of engineering fortifications , it is already indicated that these fortifications already allow us to a certain extent to stabilize the situation on the battlefield, the advance of the enemy army, despite its total superiority , is distinguished by an advance there at the level of 100-200-300 m during the day, although under the condition of such a ratio of forces and means,

it would seem that the advance of the enemy army... should have been more extensive, but nevertheless, thanks to the courage and triumph of heroism of our soldiers, we manage to hold the front line. mr. vladyslav, for the past few days the enemy has been hitting odesa, the dnipro, and zaporizhzhia almost 24 hours a day, should we expect similar strikes on these cities and possibly others in our country in the next few days and weeks? should we consider the enemy absolutely stupid, who acts unsystematically? and not without trying to realize some strategic mission there, i think it is not worth it, we absolutely clearly understand that the enemy is insidious, the enemy is clearly experienced, and the enemy is transforming its activities to the conditions of the current russian-ukrainian confrontation. so, in more detail, the enemy's missile and drone attacks on the south of our country are connected with the fact that he is trying to destroy the infrastructure, in particular , the infrastructure involved in the implementation of the grain agreement, extreme flights, in particular, not far from the settlement of southern.

precisely related to what arrives, arrives at our grain terminals, and this is a serious challenge. as for the arrivals on the territory of the dnipropetrovsk region, it is obvious that the enemy is trying to destroy our railway infrastructure as much as possible with the help of missile and drone attacks. why? because he understands that ukrainian logistics is currently preparing to accept large-scale deliveries of weapons and military equipment within the framework of relevant agreements with our overseas partners, and therefore they are trying to weaken as much as possible the logistical capabilities, including by destroying key railway hubs, centers, logistics hubs, which are usually used to transport cargo of military importance. as for kharkov, it is obvious that the enemy is trying to turn it into a complete ruin without creating a so-called sanitary zone, this is not my statement, this is the statement of vladimir putin, the dictator there, the russian dictator, so it is obvious that putin is trying to implement this mission,

creating a sanitary zone. by transforming a million-strong city into a grafted city. and tell me, mr. vladyslav, what needs to be done from the point of view of descaling of ukrainian air defense, what to prevent all these strikes, because now the president is even talking about the possibility of strikes on nuclear power plants, and of course this could be not only a catastrophe for the ukrainian energy industry, but also a catastrophe of a global scale. mr. vitaly, i thought about this issue, and i did not find any argument that would absolutely prevent putin from implementing, not implementing such a plan, well, what can actually influence him, and from time to time we see that the enemy suits critical level provocations, for example at nuclear energy facilities, in particular at the zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, do we hear any such conscious reaction on the part of the world community to such flagrant actions on the part of the russian occupation army, no, there is a certain concern,

there are certain statements that ... do not carry any real processes, practical actions that would curb the strange encroachments of putin and his entourage, i think that and what concerns the nuclear energy facilities on the territory of our country, on those territories that are under the control of the ukrainian government , it is unlikely that putin will pay particular attention to any reactions, taking into account the fact that before that it was completely impotent on the part of our western partners, and therefore such risks exist, and i think that everything ... is determined only by the presence of the enemy's resources and the readiness to use them these resources are precisely for our nuclear energy. as for the current activity of the enemy army aimed at the destruction of our energy complex, it is also absolutely logical, he works with his missiles and drones on our hydro-generation, heat-generation facilities, respectively on...