entry and that by and large the real outcome of the situation may be the suspension of the war with guarantees that ukraine will not receive any real security guarantees when putin has the desire to end this war, because once again his behavior at the st. petersburg economic forum showed that he chose for himself the option of prolonging the war indefinitely. and now you and i need to make andriy understand that there are two options for the development of events. in fact, in the global sense of the word. the first option is whether the war is suspended or not is suspended, and ukraine receives some guarantees from nato, let's say there, or security guarantees in general in the event of an armistice with russia, if this armistice can take place at all, or a security guarantee for this territory, which at that time will be controlled by a legitimate ukrainian government, with the fact that nato will be able to join the theater. integral ukraine, there may

be options here, or there is another option, also absolutely realistic, which, by the way, we also indirectly talk about all the time, when we say that ukraine is turning into such european israel, what is european israel, well, from the point of view of security, it is an effort to increase the periods of peace and decrease the periods of wars, i have repeatedly spoken about this, so you know how to solve the middle east conflict. you have a recipe, i think almost nobody, nobody has, every american president comes up with a plan that dies with that president's career, and then a new president comes along and comes up with his plan, and by the way, president trump, when he was in charge of connecting states, was very good plan, he looked for opportunities to reconcile israel with neighboring and non-neighboring arab states and achieved great success in implementing this plan, remember, several countries from... recognized israel, established

diplomatic relations with them, among them such countries as ob the united arab emirates and morocco withdrew from diplomatic relations with israel, and by the way, they now maintain these diplomatic relations, they were not even severed after the events in the gas sector, and before these events israel was approaching diplomatic relations with the saudi arabia, it was already simple, you know such a jackpot, and what, it turned out that it does not solve the conflict, that is, it turned out that the conflict actually is. not between israel and the arab countries, as it might have seemed for several decades in a row, but the conflict between the israelis and the palestinians, which seemed to be of minor importance, so i will tell you now, it is an unpleasant thing for ukrainians, which they will have to face, if not today, then tomorrow, in our conflict is not with putin, we have a conflict between the ukrainian and russian peoples, and as long as these two peoples exist, they are unlikely to or... can find a common language among themselves

, so our task is either to get security guarantees, which so far seems unlikely, or to agree that our main goal is long periods of peace and short periods of war, that is, we need to free ourselves from illusions that we are fighting here and will leave this war to our children as something past, as some historical fact, as the last meeting, it can be if we... and nato, of course, and the children, of those who fight, and the grandchildren of those , who are fighting, will fight, die between russia and the west, if we do not join in wars, there will be military cemeteries, there will be fortresses, there will be defense spending instead of social spending, it was everyday life, absolutely so, i would say, trivial, so that even in our own information tapes there will be no notice of the death there...

some amount servicemen on some kind of conflict line, that's all it will be, i hope they will notice, because this is life, but it will not cause surprise, it can also happen, we are just approaching this period, so we need to such and such, such a period was shortened so that we would have a period of real peace, tranquility, a certain stability, the strengthening of our army, the strengthening of our state, so that we could endure the next war and that it would be shorter than this one, here i am all the time i say that you have to think in terms of achievements, let's say, the first ukrainian independence has been there for two years, in fact, the second is already 30 three years old, this is an achievement, this great war has been going on for 2 and a half years, it could be three, it could be five, we will have to push back from his from her term, so that the next war, which, let's say... will begin, come on

in 10 years, let it be in five, it was no longer 2.5 years, or three, i don't know how long it will be, but a year, and so on . well , the future is unpleasant, but there is no other country, and again, we must always tell our western friends that they will have serious problems when such a ukraine exists, because these are migrant crises, demographic issues, resettlement of people to other european countries, many people will want to live in such a country, some people will want to, they will think that this is their land, and they have it protect, but not all the population of ireland now. you know, it is the same as 100 years ago, it has not increased, but how many irish people live around the world, so will the fate of the ukrainian people in such a situation, to what extent europe is interested in this, i am not sure, that is, we must continue to insist on ukrainian membership in nato, not because, as

yury fedorenko told us, the russian army will come to nato countries, most likely it will not come, why fight for nato, why, but it. her actions can cause serious an internal crisis in europe, which may be no more dangerous than war. this must be understood. the question here is that, if we follow the option you are talking about, the question here is that when we do not join nato, but we have these periods, we must understand that we are constantly being helped , support, we understand that without weapons of the united states of america, without weapons.

not refrigerators, but howitzers, i'm sorry, guns instead of butter, a bad slogan, which many who watch us do not like, but they must understand that they are already living in this and there is no way out from there, moreover, if it looks like this, then the whole of europe will be militarized, because they will feel danger all the time, but look again at the close east, israel is in danger. it is true only for him that egypt is in danger, or saudi arabia, or some other countries, but how much money do they spend on the military-industrial complex, saudi arabia simply has a lot of this money, but they are really busy all the time with the army, local conflicts, they just left

yemen, when there is even one country that is a security issue for the entire region, it is not easy to live in all other countries, and in european... countries, these are our people, who will live in european countries, they will serve in the army, when citizenship will be withheld, they will experience problems with social security, they will not have a good life, there will not be, because it will be the existence of such ukraine will destabilize europe and to turn it into a militarized continent as well, i don't know, i can look for some addresses that can at least be recommended to people who would like to live out the years they have left before some big war in peace and tranquility. no, well, australia, it is already in alliance with the united states militarily, it is there in a very dangerous region of the asian pacific, well, maybe some thailand, but i am also not sure that indetai will be such a simple point in the future, that is, you have to sit down and look for some place , where possible

to gather those who would like to live peacefully, not not interested in political news and not afraid of heart attacks, but there will be very many such places, the beautiful maldives, and whose president you are... now forbids israeli citizens from entering the territory of his country, expels indian military personnel, invites the chinese, and soon the chinese from the maldives will burn somewhere, and they will burn all over the maldives, and instead of a resort there will be one bloody bathhouse, this can happen, and by the way, i will interrupt you, the second question, this is what i said about the first question , and now there is a second question, which is how many, if we have such periods, war, peace, war, peace, well, conditional peace, how many people will remain in ukraine, this is also very important, why, because in russia one population, ukraine has a different population, you and i, we talked last saturday, last saturday, that we have a catastrophic demographic crisis in ukraine,

approximately 28 million people currently live in ukraine, i can tell you how many people will remain to live here, if it will be a permanent such period, somewhere up to 15-20 million will remain, well, if we are in nato, the population will increase to 35, well, part of the people will return, part of the people will return, of course, and some of the people are not you . wants such a more or less peaceful life , he will not leave, but even in the most destroyed countries there is a large population that has left lebanon, no, many have stayed, there are people who just want to live in their homes, even if they understand that tomorrow a rocket will fly, there are a lot of such people, so there will be approximately 20 million people left to work at military plants, serve in the army, raise soldiers, and so on will definitely remain, and these people, by the way, will try to vote for politicians, as they will try to normalize relations with russia, that's what is most interesting: against russia

will have a diaspora, and people who will be here will vote for parties of a pro-russian direction, not pro-russian, a direction of coexistence, and people, people who will be abroad, will vote for patriotic forces, and people who will be here will fight, that some are imposed on them deputies, who again condemn them to a confrontation with russia, because they will believe that with russia it is somehow possible to... and it will also be a very interesting thing, when the fate of those people who will stay here will be decided by people who will remain there, and these people will stand in queues at the embassies to vote for those who will not be supported by those who will remain here, it can also be, absolutely realistically, as in moldova , pro-european forces will win, because people in all capitals of the world, citizens of moldova stand 20 hours in queues. to vote for maya sanda, and people living in moldova want to vote for a certain igor dodon, and then they are very offended that their

countrymen are imposing on them a government that they would never have chosen if they were given to vote themselves, that's how there may be hocus-pocus, it must be remembered, but there is another side of the coin, there are actually people who went abroad, but who were complimentary towards russia, although they most likely will not vote, they will not vote, they will and they will go to the russian consulate, these people. russian passports, but there are also such, in fact, well, we, we, let’s face the truth, we did not gather here to lie and to say that there are different people living in ukraine, it is generally normal when we are dealing with a state of 40 million recently, of course there are people of different political views and different identities, even, of course there are, but again, if you absolutely do not perceive ukraine as a state, you see it as some kind of boil for the purposes of... russia, like napoleon that's what his native said about corseco, by the way,

this is exactly the same illustration, yes, why will you go to the embassy of this ukraine, who will you vote for there, you will forget about this ukraine in a month, you will leave there, well, we already see such people, the truth is, you saw how huge the number of people who left ukraine abroad, according to sociologists, in general, how many percent, 30% or 40, are not even interested in news from ukraine. they don't know what's going on here, they just left and forgot about it and take their children to russian clubs and russian schools, that's all also a fact is a fact, because they did that when they lived here, well, that is, but we are talking about voters, these people are not voters, but these people who are patriotic and left, they are voters, because they will be very afraid , that their countrymen will bring to power those they don't like, and that's how it is... it looks like we're talking about the position of the united

states of america just now, but there's actually not only the united states of america, there is, we're fine with that we know the position, including that of other nato member states, which also believe that ukraine should not be a member of the north atlantic alliance, there are those too. at the expense of such countries, or not? the possibility of convincing them in the future, whether they will not, even if the position is the usa, whether they will not become another stage of obstacles for ukraine to be able or not to join the northern depends on the leading states, these leading states are able to convince other , because these others depend on their support. hungary can oppose ukraine in nato, but orbán knows very well that his nuclear powers are protecting him, if there is a nuclear consensus. states, they will certainly not protest, they can

postpone, negotiate, well, we have already seen how it works with sweden and finland, but turkey is a country much more influential than hungary, and president recep tayyip erdogan can be said to have squeezed since finland accepted sweden into nato, he did everything he could, and conducted negotiations, and defense agreements... signed and the legislation required them to be changed, but no one doubted, indeed, no one doubted that he would still make concessions, that it's just a cycle no one in the united states, in sweden, in finland, doubted that these countries would become members of nato, no matter what he did, that it simply had to be such a political process that had to convince his compatriots of what he really was a strong, independent, unbreakable, international player, but he knows very well that he leads a country that is part of nato, he will not take any risks,

there is no question of orban at all, orban will block meetings of the cabinet of ministers. nato and ukraine, to demand new concessions and so on and so on, but it always comes the moment when he must yield. we saw that the hungarians were very unhappy that they became the last country to vote for sweden in nato, that they hoped that the turks would at least announce their intentions, but they did not even notice them with all the friendship between erdogan and orbán. well, you also have a very good illustration, so everything will depend. from the position primarily of the united states and other nuclear powers, great britain, great britain and france, germany plays a big role, but it will listen to the american position, and now listens, they are against it together, so there are certain points to be aware of, again, but i think that the united states, as long as

the war continues, they will not demand such a consensus, because they do not really understand why they need one. .. sensus, if they talk about the risk, the real risk of a nuclear strike, that's all, so they are not strongly motivated to ensure this consensus. another topic that is extremely intertwined with what we have been talking about is the global peace summit that will take place next week, that is literally a few days, a week remains until it begins, and here it is for the european one... and in fact, colleagues publish an article and say that ukraine may have made certain concessions in vain, actually in the formula or in the adjustment of the formula, the ukrainian peace formula and left only three points, and actually when for discussion, three points for discussion, yes, that is, three out of ten remained, actually,

according to colleagues, this was done in order to invite a larger number of states to join middle eastern countries the far east to involve, conditionally speaking, the countries of the global south, and here too there are certain caveats, which are that ukraine can in this way give a pass, give an opportunity to other players who offer their formulas for peace, in particular to china itself, push your agenda. that is, a conditional freeze there or other positions that china is talking about. well, if we are talking about, or both about this and about the peace summit itself, what do we expect from it, are there any real grounds for such warnings, in my opinion, they are real, and what, in the end,

the final will be, given what remains? week or the end result of this summit? i don't think that there will be any final result of this summit, i don't think that it was expected, i don't think that it has at all, that is, it will not be at all, well, there will be some solution , some resolution, the more countries there are at the summit, the more, the resolution will be in favor of everything, and it was right to involve as many states as possible, if at all you want to hold such meetings in as many states as possible, then yes, and if you want to hold these meetings in the circle of westerners... and what are your thoughts on the fact that if there is some abbreviated formula to be discussed, that it will somehow hinder the ukrainian position in the future? in principle, the ukrainian position in the future can be any, we understand it, because it is

the ukrainian position, the question is simply whether we do not give the opportunity, for example, to certain players. to promote one's position, which will not completely coincide with ukraine's, to promote, for example, to other states, whether other states will say, well, listen, well, ukraine here you see, it came out with a shortened program, ukraine, well, supposedly agrees to some compromises, let's talk about these compromises, maybe this is the problem, i think the problem is something else, the problem is that both we and the west are waiting all the time that russia is interested in negotiations. and i think i proceed from the fact that russia was not interested in any negotiations at all, even if they will be like that in saudi arabia in the fall, well, they can go through... no, well, i will again, negotiations on a ceasefire , the way it is written in chinese plan, maybe, but it is not a peace formula and there are no talks about security and

so on, it’s just that we met and agreed that the fire will stop there from a certain hour along the line of contact, all this is possible, maybe, although i i don't see any need for russia, i believe that once again russia... clearly demonstrates its desire to exhaust ukraine in, i would say in terms of infrastructure, and not only in terms of the military, why should russia cease fire if winter is ahead, and it is possible it is still necessary to ensure that ukrainians continue to leave large cities bridge, if it is possible to see whether there will be heating, whether there will be electricity, how many people will remain, how many enterprises, you understand that if there is no opportunity to live, then a large number of people will again... go abroad, yes, yes , russia can solve this problem as a primary, demographic problem, it can end the war when there is simply no living population left here, not

that it will kill everyone, but simply force them to leave the territory, and the longer the war lasts , the more such a possibility exists, some more blows to thermal power plants, some more strikes on infrastructural facilities, some more strikes on kharkiv, it is very good that we can counter this now. this is an absolutely obvious point that we need to counteract this, but i want to ask you a simpler thing, what is the problem of the peace summit in principle, if it actually accepts even a few points in a situation where all these countries do not bother russia at all , do not worry, because there is an idea that all states. got together, signed the formula, yeah, all 10 points, that's all in a dream, our measures came true, and what happens the next day, nothing, well

, why not, and these states that have gathered do not want to support all these, all these formulas, they want half, but nevertheless it will be a diplomatic victory, a large number of leaders gathered, supported ukraine, what difference does it make, what is written there, when russia does not care about what is written there, when even these states, when they support these points, they do not support the idea of ​​cutting off economic relations with russia, maybe need to work on a completely different idea, to the idea of ​​strengthening sanctions against russia, to the idea that the russian side would receive fewer opportunities for relations with the countries of the global south, this would really be a very serious thing. these are real things, but there are diplomatic efforts, it must be clearly understood, we have no opportunity to impose any formulas on russia, because russia only understands force,

here we hit the brain, this russia understands, here we destroyed the russian oil refinery there, this is russia understands, they are immediately looking, but what, how to answer back, yes, i, what here is still to destroy so that we stop, if we respond more strongly, they will respond more strongly, this is a war of attrition, early. sooner or later the resources of the parties will be exhausted, and it is important for us that at the time of our exhaustion of the parties, and russian resources are exhausted to such an extent that russia is also ready to stop hostilities, all and so that we can live a certain period in peace before a new war, or until joining nato, and then all of this will end once and for all. we understand that from the words of president biden nothing changes from the point of view of the introduction itself, well, today he is the president, tomorrow he is not the president, we are talking to you about the period 10-20. 30-40 years, this is such a period of confrontation, that's all, so i don't have an answer to the question of how

this regime of diplomatic decisions should work in our understanding with you, the idea was to gather as many countries as possible at the peace summit, everyone was doing this, americans, europeans, ukrainians, but president zelenskyi made these statements about the war in the middle east that were contradictory enough to be heard in arab countries, came because the required number of participants. russia, in its turn, will gather its decisions with samit brik, the minister of foreign affairs, there to prolong whether it has anything to do with the end of the war, none. the end of the war will occur when the parties do not have the economic, demographic, social and political potential to continue military operations, everything is agreed,

we will continue fighting, but this does not mean. that there should not be a diplomatic struggle, you see that as soon as we withdraw a little, immediately a chinese plan really appears, such a plan, these plans will not work either, because for russia we are not a state, a separatist territory that must be returned, it lives in russia in a different logic, it does not fight as a sovereign state, we fight, but it no, other states believe that it is fighting as a sovereign state, and it is not, this is a different life, but this does not mean that we have to not defend our positions on the international platform like this. how can this be done? what what else which, what is the alternative? a possible alternative would be not to convene a peace summit at the level of heads of states i agree but do you remember where this whole idea came from? this idea arose when they believed that after the ukrainian offensive, russia would want negotiations, and here we offered them the position of the international

community, but it was not a ukrainian idea. this is what western politicians thought, well , if they live in their own world, and the russians live in theirs, and these worlds do not meet, but meet only when a western missile hits russian positions, or a russian missile hits ukrainian ones, only then they now meet when they tried to talk, they didn't do well either, remember this conversation between biden and putin, and macron and putin, when putin gave him a history lecture, well, that's it, we drifted apart, we forgot, they live in the 18th century, we are in the 21st, and they want to delay... first of all , the 18th is all, here is the whole international situation, very simply, i do not see anything negative in the fact that the leaders of the states will meet and at least discuss something, that the very fact of their coming to this summit is moral support for ukraine, but the west's position also basically consists in in order to exhaust russia, i.e. what they are giving now, they saw what the situation is in the same

kharkiv direction. yes, and they also make it possible now, in essence, for ukraine to strike russia with certain blows in order to exhaust it, that is, relatively speaking, we have a situation where russia is exhausting our potential, energy, gas there, any industry, military potential , and in fact the civilized world gives us the opportunity to exhaust... various kinds of portach, it also means that we try them to exhaust, the question is simply here we are, when it comes to the same chinese plan, well , i apologize, china may have a million plans with russia, but the west will never agree to this plan, because it will be a huge blow to

the west, it is just a political blow, and this will be a blow for many years in advance, a geopolitical blow, because in fact it will mean that the west has followed the lead of russia and china and will lose this battle, so it is clear that they can do their summit, but no one ever legally, neither politically will stick to these conditions, there may be a combination of summits, conditionally speaking, there is some kind of meeting at the level of... the president of the united states, the president of the people's republic of china and the king of saudi arabia, the president of france. that is, to meet in the middle, which simply agree to promote a truce. ugh. armistice and just a ceasefire. the moment when there will already be both there and there, a complete lack of living conditions for the population. from a purely humanitarian point of view. such a truce, for which, let's say, ukraine

is negotiating this truce with the usa and france. and russia with china and turkey there or saudi arabia, but for this it is first necessary to make the living conditions of the population in both countries intolerable, this is the only possibility to bring the conflict to some kind of finalization, or putin realizes that he does not have the resources for a long, high-intensity war, then he also tries somehow that's all, well now it seems that he is at least according to his statements, that he has so far, so far statements at least. putin we need, we need not to count words, but money. yet. so. oh, another statement of biden is interesting, it is that washington does not give the opportunity to hit the united states of america with its weapons on moscow, there, on the kremlin. well, as i understand it, according to some such plan of objects or cities. ah-ah