the eu is skeptical about the american plan. orban's concessions. hungary will not block nato's decision regarding ukraine, but will not participate in its support either. what arguments of general secretary stoltenberg forced the hungarian leader to change his irreconcilable pro-russian position. it is not yet about peace. global summit in switzerland. potential participants while china promotes the idea of ​​an alternative peace conference. are negotiations possible with the simultaneous participation of ukraine and russia? glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program. my name is serhiy rudenko, congratulations everyone and i wish everyone good health. for the next two hours, we will talk about ukraine and the world. about the war and about our victory. in

the first part of our program, we will have diplomat and politician volodymyr ogrysko. in the second part of the program, which will start at 21:15, we will have political experts maksym rozumny and volodymyr fisenko. however, before starting our big conversation today, let's look at the consequences of another terrorist act by the russian occupiers and strikes on the crooked corner, at least nine dead and more than 29 injured, such are the tragic consequences of another attack by the russians, a rocket hit a residential building, two children were among the injured, this is how the rescue operation in kryvyi rih lasted, workers.

dead and death to the russian occupiers. friends, we work live on the tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those who are now watching us live there. please subscribe to our pages and take part in our survey. today we ask you about the following: do you support the idea of ​​economic reservation from mobilization? yes, no, if you are on youtube, everything is quite simple, if you have your own opinion about this economic reservation, that is, with ... pay the company

money for the booked employee so that he is not mobilized, then you vote either yes or no , write your answer under this video, if you are watching us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if you support the idea of ​​economic booking from mobilization 0800 211381 or 0802138. all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. our guest today is volodymyr ogrysko, diplomat, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2007-9, head of the russian research center. mr. volodymyr, i congratulate you, i am glad to see you. congratulations, mr. serhiy, good health. let's start our conversation, mr. volodymyr, with the conference on the restoration of ukraine, which ended today in berlin. and it

aimed to outline the possibilities and, most importantly , the needs of ukraine in the restoration of ukraine. what did the prime minister say at this conference denis shmyhal, he says that ukraine needs up to 30 billion dollars of annual investments in the next 10 years, that is, 300 billion dollars. we need reconstruction, access to foreign markets and improved logistics. we need foreign investment and technology transfer. our partners, ukraine needs from 10 to 30 billion dollars of annual investments in the next 10 years. however, mr. volodymyr, i wanted to start not with our needs, but with how we came to this conference, how we conducted it, and how i actually slammed the door before this conference the head of the agency for the reconstruction of ukraine, and in your opinion, there are similar nuances. and such

details affect the very atmosphere of the conference, the trust of our western partners in the ukrainian leadership, and whether it was possible to avoid this... this conflict, scandal, public, moreover, which then spilled over into the western media, well, regarding the conference, it is not the first , it has already become a tradition, and it is very good that our allies and partners find opportunities to gather once again, discuss what is needed, define priorities, and it becomes such, you know, a good tradition, and under this tradition we see. that real funds will be allocated that will go to the restoration, but let's be honest, first we need to defend the fact that we will restore, that's why it's all fine, but that's for the day after tomorrow, so to speak, for tomorrow we still have to

finish the russian hydra in order to have something to restore, well, by the way, in relation to these figures that you mentioned, well, the same prime minister. called the numbers of ours, the numbers of the damage caused by this wild country, which is still called the russian federation, is from 700 billion to 1 trillion dollars, well, you can imagine, these are fantastically large sums, so the numbers are definitely correct, so that in order for us, at least in some medium-term perspective, to... go to something is more or less normal, it will be a colossal job and it will require colossal money, of course there are investors who can take risks, who will not wait for some things, and today i saw information that already some people want it even in

the odesa region, which is constantly under shelling, investing all the same and so on, what does this mean, it means that not only politicians believe in ukraine. but also businessmen, but what you say is absolutely, well, it goes beyond the bounds of common sense, it is when we set up some artificial obstacles for ourselves, but to be honest, i also cannot understand why it was necessary, well , in fact, well decapitate this entire direction of reconstruction. first fire the minister, and now make sure that the hire is fired on his own , does anyone think this helps the same trust? and no, of course, yes, the german colleagues diplomatically said: well

, of course, there is a large delegation, everyone, everyone, everyone, everyone, everyone came there, well, there will be no hiring, well , no one will die and so on, and of course that no one will die, but do we in this way... turn our western partners towards us, that is the question, that is, why do we create obstacles for ourselves, you know, once upon a time in soviet times they said that the armenian komsomol members would first create a problem, and then solve it they overcome heroically, well, that's about the same thing that happens here, i i just don't understand why we need these heroic attempts to overcome the problems that we create for ourselves, it's honestly a mystery to me, mr. volodymyr, but... but it's not just about kubrakov and nayem when we talk about the perception of ukraine by the world, we are also talking about the general situation with corruption, the general situation with democracy, the general situation with court decisions and those verdicts that are handed down in

court sessions, obviously our western partners want to see ukraine as a projected state, because if shmyhal talks about 30 mirds. every year for 10 years, obviously, after all , those who will give money will also demand from the ukrainian state the fulfillment of certain requirements and conditions will be set, do you see now that ukraine is ready to change and make these necessary changes, and not just not to concentrate power there in the hands of five people, and to create a system. a topic that would allow, not just five managers to manage ukraine, but would allow ukraine to live fully, and all these areas that i am talking about and norms, they would adhere to regardless of whether someone there presses on press a button in the president's office, or there will be

some public or other leader there, or ukrinform will demand something, this system, how long do you think it will take for this system to be viable and suit our westerners, you know, mr. serhiy, for what to be honest, i really hope so, and if you want, uh, what i sincerely believe is that, well, this month we should start negotiations on accession, uh, despite all the obstructions from hungary, i think , that one way or another, well, he will be asked to go out, to wash hands and to drink coffee at the moment when some decision will have to be made, i think that this is how everything will be done, you see, now on the example of how he behaved with stoltenberg regarding the fact that he will not ... will help , but it will not be denied, i think that this is the correct formula that will be applied in relation to the european union, and this is what we have, we

have from, well, let's say, from july, the beginning of very specific negotiations on all parameters of our life, because what we will have to agree on is everything from the environment, ending there with a conditional cosmos, that is, because we will have to be so one hundred percent integrated into the european body. that it won't be there, you know, to the left, to the right, because there is a flat road there, either way, or not at all, here already, you know, it won't get wet between two drops of rain, and i have great hope that with this our p these managers will have to understand that it will no longer be possible to manage with buttons, european law will govern, and if this law is accepted and we live by these rules, then five managers or 25 managers in principle don't play, the laws will just work,

or they will say, dear guys, if you feel that way about what we offer, well then you will have to approach european standards for a very long time and so on, but i think that these mechanisms in the end accounts will be forced to move from this micromanagement to the fact that the country will really start to change, well if well... if we are talking about the economy, well, sorry, no one can control how they should act, the same ukrainian entrepreneurs, if they speak clearly and distinctly that we are, so to speak, entering european law, well, if we agreed to it, that means everything, we cannot work in any other way, and no matter who calls, or says or hints, or eliminates someone, well ok, well, instead of one... another will be put in place, he will still be forced to live within these frameworks, but

frankly speaking, this is my main and only hope, because otherwise it will all just happen, people will change, but it won't happen to change the system, well, in other words, ukraine should have such a system that will be unchanged at with a change of power, with a change of presidents, that is, it should be a system that allows ukraine to be open to westerners for our western partners, and of course, there will not be, conditionally speaking, five managers who solve all issues in the country, because no one in the west is like that at all, and if we take your sphere, mr. serhiy, then imagine that from some, from some office, someone writes down what to say to whom, well, that's it and who not to interview and so on, well it's just, well, well, it's it, it can't, it can't, it can't. imagine in principle therefore, if the rules of the mass media are agreed upon, then everything, then

no darkmen or anything like that will automatically disappear, well, because if something, something similar occurs somewhere, it will mean that there will be a scandal, it will be a nuclear explosion, and that whoever dares to do this will simply be burned in one second, well, let's hope that our path to europe... will help the european union and help ukrainian society, because this is exactly what we are talking about. of course, and you know, i still believe that there are two components here: strict rules and civil society, if it all comes together and including mass media will be that, you know, that bad dog, sorry for this comparison, that will bite and show what is wrong and why. not like this and so on, then these five managers will have to simply hide under the table, well, for

now these five managers of big managers are spending a big foreign policy week, because this week is full, the conference is in berlin, the summit starts tomorrow of the big seven in italy, and then there will be summit, the global peace summit in switzerland, tomorrow at the g7 summit, the united states of america promises: to announce new sanctions and export control measures against russia during this very meeting. john kirby, a white house spokesman, says: "we 're going to continue to increase." vat the costs of the russian military machine and this week we are announcing an effective new set of sanctions and export control actions, these actions will be consistent with the commitments made by the leaders of the group of seven countries, they will targeting organizations and networks that help russia buy what it needs for war. well, apart from that, the summit

will also announce a plan for a relief fund. 50 billion dollars to ukraine, well , the most important thing is that tomorrow biden and zelenskyy will sign a security agreement on the sidelines of the g7 summit, well, that is , there should be such powerful signals to the world that, that is what changes the g7 summit, and this security agreement with by the united states of america, what signal are the big seven and biden sending to russia? well, the signal. unequivocal ee, that her russia hopes that someone is tired, someone has forgotten what is happening, these are all vain hopes, the only thing is, you know that, well , in life and in diplomacy there are different tactics of conducting affairs, well, it is possible to organize the matter in such a way as to quickly overcome

the enemy's countermeasures and put an end to it, or you can do, you know, the process of such... gradual suffocation, that is, each one, well, the americans like to say, boil this frog, so that it does not understand that its already cooked, well, it seems to me that this principle has become the main thing in the position of western countries in relation to russia is that it suffocates gradually, that it has less and less oxygen and that it ultimately, well, survives this finale, but did not even understand that it... russia's assets, which are frozen, but not confiscated, well, they gathered everyone there, lawyers, diplomats, experts, and so on, and the mountain gave birth to a mouse, well, excuse me, this is my personal impression, yes,

ukraine will receive one and a half to two, well, a maximum of 3 billion dollars every year. income from yes, i.e. assets, i.e. all this is big, well so to speak, this can remains untouched, and the fact that the percentages are yes, well , is this a solution to the problem in essence, and of course no, this is again, you know, this is boiling by half a centimeter, by half a degree and so on, well, how long will it be possible to cook it, despite what russia has done. an act, no, she committed an act, she committed the crime of international military aggression, and this is all spelled out in all documents, that is, there is no need to look for something, you just need to take the un charter, several conventions and write that we cannot work according to our democratic standards with a country that destroys and destroys these standards, it is necessary to make political

decisions, and here we come to what you and i, mr. sergiu, have been talking about for a long time, there is no... political will to make drastic, but very necessary decisions , to quickly put an end, well, because of this, we come back to the fact that this frog is boiled, boiled, this is how it will be cooked, there is no doubt about it, but, you know, at the time of the last spoonful, when they give you a drop by drop so that you hold back and gradually grind. this enemy, that's it at the expense of our lives, that is at the expense of what you showed today before the start of our conversation, when, when the rashists kill civilians, when they destroy cities, when they wipe out the face of the earth, settlements and so on, well, for some it is a statistic , and for us it is our pain, and i

think that we need to explain and show our western partners every day what is happening, they saw kharkiv well... they woke up a little bit, so what, is the crooked horn different, there that these are not the kind of people who live, so i think that all these things are us should translate just such, you know, general conversations about the fact that we are gradually, now there will be another round of sanctions, and that it is impossible to sit down with a reasonable head and deal with these sanctions once and for all, yes, you can, but this is where it starts, and ah i don't want you to sanction, let's say... the aluminum industry there, and i don't want you to sanction the processing of jewels, diamonds, and so on, and it all starts, well, listen, you can. draw a line endlessly, and where will the result be? and the result is that we we lose our sons and daughters. well, in this case, our western partners do not make

drastic decisions, because behind them is the big business of their countries, and this big business is also probably afraid of the confiscation of assets on the territory of the russian federation, because the united states of america, and germany, and france, after all, they were quite active before the great war. invested in russia and a sufficiently large business is still located there, some of these businesses left, some remained, that is, they rely on the opinion of these large international corporations of companies and do they want to protect them from this in this way, or do they still expect that at some stage this frog that they are cooking, which already has in its pocket... the warrant of the international criminal court, will start croaking and sit down at the table with them to agree on something or what do they want? well, you know, the role of these powerful

economic giants, they certainly cannot be dismissed from the shalki libra, they are influential, and it is true. but if we compare what the west has invested in russia, and these are frozen, let's say, only these 300 million. actually there is much more, so it’s not the wrong order of numbers, that is, the west loses an order of magnitude less, there we are talking about really no no no not critical numbers for the west as such, but they are also afraid to do this, because, well, who, what, well conditional of some kind, i will not name the austrian big bank, which , after two years of war, does not want to leave the russian market all the time. drags it out, we still have to do it, we still have to agree on it, and so it continues to work there, as if nothing happened, so what will you talk then about the position of this country, if

one way or another it is affected by the position of one of the largest banks in this country, so unfortunately, where profits are 300%, they once said, they can sell their own mother, one more event is enough ... important for ukraine and maybe not so important for part of the world, judging by the statistics that are already available, this is the global peace summit in switzerland, the number of countries and organizations that confirmed their participation in the peace summit in switzerland decreased from 93 to 78, radio svoboda was told about this on condition of anonymity several diplomats of the eu countries, who are familiar with the course of preparations for the conference, know that at this conference... there will be china's wangyi, the minister of foreign affairs of china in nizhny novgorod, at a meeting of foreign ministers , said that china, which

refused to participate at this peace summit, again proposed his format for negotiations between ukraine and the aggressor country of russia. i will quote wang. the crisis in ukraine is still protracted. china supports the timely convening of a genuine peace conference recognized by both russia and ukraine with equal participation of all parties and a fair discussion of all peaceful options, says vanier. well, that is, beijing says that for us both russia, which attacked ukraine, and ukraine, which is currently fighting for survival, are equal, that is , the most important thing for us is the principle that two parties sit down at the table and start negotiating peace , and he calls the war, vanya calls the crisis in ukraine. and this rhetoric, frankly speaking, well, it gives a clear idea that our european colleagues and biden, over the past six months, have not been able

to convince xijin ping that he has influence russia and, including, clearly articulate its position regarding ukraine. why do you think xijing pin cannot take the side of the civilized world in this situation. still trying to support putin in this situation? well, with regard to your first question about the conference that will be held now in switzerland, you know, will there be 78 or 85, or will there be 105, i do n't think it is of such great fundamental importance, even if there will be 78, as they are saying now , although i think that during... these for the next one or two days the situation may to change here and there as well, but believe me, this means that a huge number of countries responded to our proposal. that

in one way or another, the countries of the developed world, so to speak, and the countries that are trying, well, so to speak, well , they are now called the global south, the third world , and so on and so forth, will be represented there, that is, this breaks down the main thesis of moscow, that zelensky is gathering a summit... of the rich and the great, and the whole world opposes him, the rest of the world, who are poor and dependent, who suffer from, who suffer from neo-colonialism and so on and so on and so on, this, well, such a number of countries will mean that this myth is falling apart, that is , i think this is the most important victory, and i will frankly tell you to collect such a number. countries, well, it

is necessary to work quite seriously, it is not done just like that, and despite the fact that you are right, russia, both directly and through china , did and will do everything until the last minute so that this summit fails and so on, well, you see , it came to a point of curiosity when lavov was awarded the order of the stallion in west africa, well, i guess, i don't know if it was such... subtle trolling or after all it was a random situation, but you see, he did everything in order to, well, at least one, the second, the third country somehow hold back, pull out from this list and so on, well, well, the pros will not come to faso, well, tell me, please, it will be a great tragedy for us, no, china will not come, so the country of a different, so to speak, level and power, but that from the fact that he would be there and

some kind of... general declaration would be adopted, something would fundamentally change in the situation on the field fight, no, therefore, i think that we should treat this event from the point of view of its political dividends and practical, if we talk about political ones, then this is a success, a success, i would say that already today even before before the start of this conference, it is good, because the world responded to our proposals, to ours, let them... not everyone agrees with them, let it be, but it means that the world hears, hears the voice of ukraine. the practical part is a little different, i'm more of a pessimist here, a pessimist than an optimist, because to get something like that concrete and it will not be possible right away, well, just the same, let's be realistic, let's talk honestly about what will happen, yes, if, excuse me for the word, we don't grope for some elements by which it will be possible to move

forward, thank god. well, the subject of the exchange of prisoners of war, well, it’s a holy thing, as they say, nothing can happen here, it will be possible to take a few steps so that through someone there, through qatar, through saudi arabia, through hell lisovo, excuse the words, it will be possible to return our people, well that's all, this is already the result, if we show the same western world, that, rather, the south, that we can work on food security, this is already the result and so on, and so on, that is, it will not be... we will run ahead, but i think that the idea itself has now been confirmed, it will be a diplomatic success for ukraine . by the way, you mentioned saudi arabia, there was just a report that president zelensky arrived on an unannounced visit to saudi arabia, the plane with zelensky landed in the city of jeddah on the red sea coast, and it must be said that this visit to saudi arabia is quite important, because zelenskyi... said

that a meaningful and energetic meeting with his highness crown prince muhammad bin salman al-saud took place, they discussed bilateral relations between ukraine and saudi arabia, noted the good dynamics of the implementation of our previous agreements, but at the same time zelenskyi added that the meeting discussed preparations for the global peace summit, its expected results and their possible implementation. saudi arabia plays quite an important role, mr. volodymyr, in the world and in regarding the influence on russia, because the exchange of prisoners of war, including, took place through the mediation of both saudi arabia and kuwait, and we see that the saudis have influence on russia. why, and what can this undeclared change in this situation.