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tv   [untitled]    June 14, 2024 9:00pm-9:31pm EEST

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15 minutes after the bbc news, we'll be back in the studio, there will be a press club, stay tuned. giving zaporizhzhia, kherson and the entire donbas to russia, and refusing to join nato, putin called the end of the war at a time when ukraine is preparing for the peace summit, which will start tomorrow in switzerland. why now and in general, will the peace summit be able to help ukraine? we talk on today's edition of the bbc. i am olga palomaryuk. the peace summit starts tomorrow in switzerland, but the day before it , volodymyr unexpectedly spoke about peace putin, who was not invited to the summit. at a meeting with the leadership of the ministry of foreign affairs, putin announced, and i quote: he is doing another one. a concrete real
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peace proposal, that the essence of this proposal is not a temporary truce or a cease-fire, it is about the final end, as he said, of the conflict. so what does this putin peace plan look like? first, ukrainian troops, putin said, should be withdrawn from the donetsk, luhansk, kherson and zaporizhzhia regions, withdrawn within the administrative borders, although zaporizhzhia russia could not to occupy, and kherson was liberated by the armed forces of ukraine in november. in 2022, putin also demands that ukraine refuse to join nato, and western countries cancel all sanctions against russia. this statement by putin was commented on in the ministry of foreign affairs of ukraine, it was called manipulative, its goal is to hinder the peace summit in switzerland, that's what the ministry of foreign affairs says, but president zelenskyi called putin's conditions an ultimatum. and this is what nato secretary general jens stoltenberg responded to putin's statement. this only
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demonstrates that this is not an offer made with with good intentions, but a proposal that essentially means that russia must achieve its goals in war games, in particular, expecting the ukrainians to give up much more territory than russia has managed to occupy so far. here is the opinion of former nato analyst, patrick bury, about what this peaceful statement of putin may indicate. peace talks supported by ukraine will take place this weekend in switzerland, russia is not invited to them, so putin is trying to muddy the waters, he has come out with a demand that he wants four regions, expected, donetsk, luhansk, and zaporizhzhya, and kherson, which he partially controls, and of course he wants ukraine to never join nato. i believe that this is an attempt to muddy the waters, to put forward one's own terms and conditions. to see what will be the reaction
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of the audience, primarily china, countries of the global south. personally, i don't think it's smart, it might be a first step. i don't think ukraine can get its territory back, but it is putting a lot of pressure on, for example, russian forces in crimea right now, destroying air defenses there, so you have to watch according to the reaction of the ukrainian side and the rest of the countries of the world that are invited to switzerland. and we talk more about it with an expert of the ukrainian prizma analytical center. oleksandr kraev, oleksandr, i congratulate you, thank you for joining, why is putin making such statements on the eve of the global peace summit, what is his purpose? the russian authorities have done a lot in recent weeks to actually undermine the willingness of our partners, primarily partners from the global south, to participate in the peace summit in switzerland, so this is actually another a tool that russia has used to show that there is no... alternative,
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and with the background that switzerland will have to discuss more general topics such as the return of prisoners, nuclear security and the security of the food supply, putin allegedly wants to offer a more realistic effective alternative. against the background of the fact that after the update of the communiqué, which ukraine proposes to sign, about 15 countries dropped out of the peace summit, it seems clear why putin came out with such a statement right now, he is really trying to... seize the initiative, or will he be able to intercept, do you think the west will react? it seems to me that the west has almost nothing to react to here, and the limited, calm, i would say, reaction that we are seeing now from the leadership of nato and from the leadership of our partner states is quite enough for it. for us, the most important question remains how china will react, because despite the fact that the russians consider the chinese to be allies, and many colleagues would agree with this view, we know
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that china has an alternative peace plan, which if compare with the proposed putin, does not agree with him at all, and in fact , putin's plan contradicts what he previously proposed at the meeting. with olaf scholz, chinese leader xi jinping. therefore, in fact, it is china's reaction that will show how successful the russian provocation was, literally, and how much it works in our country on its key audience, namely the countries of the global south. actually, i wanted to ask you about the countries of the global rooster, so volodymyr zelenskyi calls this statement an ultimatum, whether this ultimatum will happen or the fulfillment of conditions or a bloody war to the countries of the global south? ah, you just have to assume that the countries of the global rooster, in principle, they support any initiative that will make it possible to sign peace as soon as possible, to end the war as soon as possible, because for them it is a question of food supply, it is a question of the stability of international markets, this is a question of the stability of international trade and, accordingly, the flow
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of investments and finances that used to go to these countries, so they are quite ready to agree and support any plan that will bring the fastest possible results for them offer. from the point of view of putin himself, it may look like a promising maneuver, while for the west and for ukraine itself, the threat posed by putin is really an ultimatum that, as they say, russia, despite the loss of hundreds of thousands of people in recent months, despite on the completely failed kharkiv operation, they say that russia still has the strength to continue the offensive, russia is still mobilizing and therefore the war will last a long time, that is, despite the presence of absolutely obvious internal problems, this statement not only intimidates ukraine and the west, but tries to make the situation look much better than it really is. so, are these intimidations, as you call them, after them, can the west begin to put pressure on ukraine, or is it still possible
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to lean towards negotiations, as you think? i don't think these intimidations will work the way russia wants them to. you are correct in saying that, in fact, from the point of view of the russians, the west is right now. should tell ukraine that, well, boys and girls, i'm sorry, but we can't support the conflict if it goes on for so long. you, they say, need to go to negotiations and seek certain compromise solutions. however, against this background, we see that most of the countries of the western world, most of the countries of the group of seven, say that they are , on the contrary, ready to transfer russian assets to ukraine, they are ready to transfer much more weapons to ukraine, they are ready to support ukraine, sign bilateral security agreements with us, that is , so far... it looks like the west is not ready, no matter how it sounds, to make compromises with putin and agree to his threats. yes, indeed, it can trigger in the western elites conversations about this, that indeed, we know, there are many politicians who support the idea of ​​negotiations, but at the same time, the official
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event, our partners, they are still ready to continue providing ukraine with all the help it needs. oleksandr, thank you, oleksandr kraev, expert of the analytical center. ukrainian prism was in touch with us. thank you. thank you. and at the peace summit in switzerland, the leaders of dozens of countries will discuss zelensky's formula. this is the ukrainian peace plan. in general, what's in it? in november 2022, during the summit of g-20 leaders in of indonesia, volodymyr zelenskyy announced the peace formula, 10 points on nuclear, food, energy security, and recovery. territorial integrity of ukraine, withdrawal of russian troops and cessation of hostilities. the ukrainian president has repeatedly repeated that only the implementation of all 10 points can bring a just peace. however, the summit will consider not all 10 points, but only three - nuclear food
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security and the release of all prisoners and deportees. why has the list of requirements been shortened and under what conditions will it pass for ukraine this summit is analyzed by bbc correspondent sviatoslav homer. of course, if we talk about the conditions for holding this summit, then we must understand that it was conceived under completely different circumstances and conditions than those that exist now. that is, when we are talking about the fall of 2022, then ukraine has just carried out a successful offensive on slobodzhanshchyna, has just liberated kherson, and at that time this plan looked absolutely realistic, when ukraine gathers, in fact , the whole world at one negotiating table, formulates conditions there, on which she wants for... to end the war, and these conditions are simply laid out with the support of the whole world, the table is in front of moscow and the whole world simply demands that it, from moscow, agree to these conditions. at that time, it looked quite realistic, and then ukraine, initiating this whole process, which was supposed
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to end with the first peace summit, and then with the second peace summit, to which russia would have already been invited, then, of course, ukraine also wanted to block the information and event appearance. other peace plans, which then began to pop up just like mushrooms after the rain. of course, now we are talking about completely different circumstances, we we are talking about different political circumstances, finally we are talking about completely different circumstances on the battlefield, but... nevertheless, the process has begun, the process was prepared for a long time, it was already impossible not to hold this summit, now before this summit ukraine faced such a dilemma : there are 10 points in zelenskyi's formula, it became clear a long time ago that there will be no agreement on all 10 points, as well as on some such wordings that russia could have adopted, and therefore ukraine was faced with a rather difficult dilemma: whether to hold the summit on a smaller the number of participants, primarily its allies, its...partners, but it is possible to make some decisions, some plans on more points of
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zelenskyi's formula, or to hold a summit with a larger representation, primarily it was about the states of the global south, but to discuss a smaller number of items at this summit, three items will be directly brought up for discussion at the summit, which do not yet have a direct relationship to hostilities or their termination, but now i understand that the hopes of the ukrainian team, the hopes of the swiss organizers of the summit, they... to the fact that under these three points a huge number of signatures of representatives of various states will be collected, including several dozen representatives of the global south, and this can somehow move this process from a standstill, because now we know that there will be no peace negotiations in ukraine, we can only summarize here by saying in the words of the swiss minister of foreign affairs that this is not yet the beginning of the peace process, but it is the first step towards its beginning. yes, well, if if you want to know more about this, i advise you to read svyatoslav khomenko's article on our
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website bbc.ua, where he analyzes who will come to the peace summit, what the reaction of russia and china might be, and what will happen after the meeting. it is not yet known how many countries will participate in the summit. at the beginning of the week, the president of switzerland spoke about confirmation from 90 participants, half from europe and north america, half from the global south. it is precisely their... support that the ukrainian authorities want to enlist, but in general, what difficulties were there during the organization of this summit, the employee of the royal institute of international relations, orysya lutsevich, analyzes. this is kyiv's attempt to gather heads of state at the highest level to actually once again confirm its support for ukraine, as well as use the opportunity to outline this war. and also, count friends, see where outside the transatlantic community among western countries. after two years of war, ukraine can expand support for its vision of ending the war and ensuring peace. organizing such
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an event is difficult, considering how much the world is becoming polarized as some countries want to remain neutral and benefit to some extent from this war, either because of cheap oil prices or preferential military purchases they can get, or access to some technology or cheaper goods. we must understand that this summit was not originally intended. as a platform for a negotiated settlement of the war. russia is currently unwilling to negotiate. she feels she has an edge on the battlefield. so, it was an attempt to actually unite kyiv the world in supporting its strategy to end the war, show that this is a global problem and make friends. the absence of china is actually very significant. i think that initially kyiv hoped that china would side with the world community, but it decided to play its game together with... russia. china has its own six-point alternative plan. and
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the fact that president biden will not come was a little unpleasant for kyiv, but zelenskyi was assured at a high level that this is not reflected in us policy in any way. well, in general the peace summit, which will be held this weekend in switzerland, even before its start, is causing extremely controversial comments in ukraine and beyond. before the opening of the event , it is impossible to say exactly who... will participate in it, what wording will be contained in its final document, as well as what consequences it can or should lead to, however, the initiator of the summit, president volodymyr zelenskyi, states that it can already be called its holding victory of ukraine. the organizers, representatives of the swiss authorities , say that this event can hardly be called the beginning of the peace process, but he is quite eager to take the first step towards it. so subscribe to our pages so you don't miss the most important news on facebook. on instagram, on tiktok, on youtube, you can watch our episode if you missed it
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on the air, and we are on the air on monday at 9 p.m., all is well, congratulations, friends, live on the tv channel. the second part of the verdict program, today we have a traditional journalism club, my name is serhii ordenko, and today we will talk about the following. peaceful deviations of the aggressor. putin demands to give him four oblasts of ukraine. who are the dictator's calls to nato countries to build a new system of global security in eurasia aimed at? reconstruction without those responsible. the berlin conference on the restoration of ukraine took place against
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the background of personnel scandals in the ukrainian government. how to restore trust. mobilization tension in society. scandals between the tcc and citizens do not knock whether economic reservation will help to resolve the internal conflict. we will talk about this and other things in the next 45 minutes with my colleagues, i want to introduce them, this is olga musahirova, correspondent of the new newspaper europe in ukraine. olga, i congratulate you, and andriy yanitskyi, my colleague, a journalist. channel espresso. friends, before we start our conversation, i suggest you, those who watch us on youtube, vote in our poll. today we ask you about whether it is possible to win ukraine without the capitulation of putin on youtube, everything is quite simple, yes, no, or your own version, if you have one, write in the comments, if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if
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do you think that the victory of ukraine is possible without the capitulation of putin 0.800 211. 381 no 0800 211 382 all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote, well, on the same question, and in the blitz poll we will now find out what my guests and my colleagues think about whether ukraine's victory is possible without putin's capitulation. olga? well, if the russian elites quickly nullify putin, then it is possible without his capitulation. that is, the death of putin can, let's say, accelerate the victory of ukraine over russia, the processes will simply go faster. andriy, i think it is possible, but with the support of western partners, if they can guarantee ukraine real protection from russian missiles, close the sky, help with weapons, then maybe it is possible to go to the borders
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of 1991 and keep at it. away from putin, protecting his sky from missiles, this will be the israeli version, when the missiles will still fly and they will go down, but putin will remain a dictator in his country in the future, and well to create a sanitary zone at the expense of the kursk, bryansk and belgorod, rostov regions for 300 km, but it is unlikely, of course, such a story, we see how our western partners are constantly late, and with help. that is why there is no faith in this scenario, but today, why, why are we actually asking, to our tv viewers, i will explain that today the russian dictator has once again repeated that he is allegedly ready for peace talks, but for this, ukraine must withdraw its troops from of all regions occupied by russians, i.e. non-russians should leave these regions, and the armed forces must leave, which the kremlin already considers
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its territory, let's listen to what putin said. but these conditions are very simple: ukrainian troops must be completely withdrawn from the donetsk, luhansk, kherson and zaporizhia regions. moreover, i draw attention to this from the entire territory of these regions within their administrative borders, which existed at the time when they were part of ukraine. as soon as kiev declares that they are ready for such a decision and will begin the real withdrawal of troops from these regions, as well as... well, putin's translation is much more emotional and was done correctly, rather than how boring putin voiced it, but if you are serious
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about it, then this is another ultimatum for peace. of the world and a peaceful ultimatum in quotation marks for the world and ukraine, because we remember how on december 15, 21, putin also put forward an ultimatum. how does this ultimatum of the moth differ from what the ultimatum was in the 21st year? well, i would say that this ultimatum, this speech before, if i am not mistaken, the ministry of foreign affairs of the russian federation, seems to be caused by the fact that a peace summit is being held in switzerland, where it is clear that russia is not they called and could not call, but before... then before the summit, well, it happened, and i think that it did not happen by chance, a whole series of, well, significant events took place, and i
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think to myself, if these were all the events, connected with real sanctions, with those things, there are bilateral security agreements, everything else, if all this had happened two... more than a few years ago, would the situation have developed to such a tragic point that we and the world are at today, eh it's a false start on my part, putin made the assumption, because of course he is says, this summit is worth nothing, why is it worth nothing, because russia will not be there and... everyone is gathering, those who actually do not seek peace, but seek the continuation of the war, the death of the ukrainian
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people, which he is very worried, and here he is proposing real measures, but when you look at all these theses that he expresses, i can agree with those colleagues who are already ... on social networks, suggesting that today is a point of reference when the real agony of the kremlin regime began, i rather agree with it, because it is so the concentration of categorical statements, and at the same time it is constantly repeated about russia's readiness for peace negotiations. with one hand he threatens with an almost nuclear baton, and with the other he says: but we are open to peace negotiations with ukraine, it’s true, zelensky
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is not the president, he is illegitimate, it’s true, we have such and such conditions, but he always breaks through , that's all, that's enough, the states introduce humiliation every day on june 12, the day of russia. sanctions, well, it was impossible to imagine such a thing even a year ago, yes, that is, it's true that all these old principles of international partnership or cooperation no longer exist, and that's why he's practically hysterical that you'll meet tomorrow without inviting russia, so i'll tell you how it's going to... well, the perception is appropriate , and there is already information that this is happening on the eve of the global peace summit, that
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there will be 100 delegations, 57 heads of state and government, 29 ministers of foreign affairs, six countries have sent their plenipotentiary representatives, that is, such a solid delegation will be tomorrow conference and this summit, but to andriy, in the performance of putin peace and peaceful... this is a sign of equality war, well, that is what he says, if he says: "give us the four regions of ukraine that we have already taken and give us guarantees, and give us guarantees that you will be a neutral state, a non-nuclear state outside of nato, it still means war, because hardly anyone in ukraine will agree to it at all, well, of course, he offers such conditions that are not even worth to discuss, because he lost the only regional center that he captured in the 22nd year kherson has been standing in the same place for more than a year, unfortunately for ukraine
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, the ukrainian troops did not repel at least the russian troops during the counteroffensive to the crimea, so the situation is deadlocked, but in my opinion, time plays into our hands, because they are military ducks of ukraine are increasing, we are waiting for planes and putin, of course, is trying to protect himself... in some way, that is, it is rather a sign of his weakness, in my opinion, and about such statements of his, well, no , not exactly putin, in general, about russian statements and calls for negotiations, very good said the late dzhokhar dudayev, president of techkeri, that when russia feels weak, then it offers negotiations, after that it regroups, looks for weak points in its opponents and attacks again, so it is clear that and... there is no point in any negotiations, well, the ministry of foreign affairs of ukraine made a reaction, i would expand it, to be honest, i will quote the ministry of foreign affairs of ukraine, how it reacted that... all these
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initiatives are aimed at disrupting the participation of the leaders of the countries in the global peace summit in switzerland and the appearance of putin's statements on the same day before the start of the summit shows that russia afraid of real peace. in response to putin, i would make a list of what we offer for peace, i.e. you release four, i.e. the reverse, they announced their denazification of russia, demilitarization of russia, denuclearization, nization, i.e. i would turn this whole story upside down, i would say, well, we ready, but our conditions are like this, and maybe our diplomacy, well, maybe they don't want to troll putin and make similar statements before the global peace summit, but it would be fair, because when he talks about giving me four regions, which we've already captured it, you're just looking around, and what's this anyway, and what is this? peace, if
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you have already bitten off four regions, you want us to have no army, to have no nato, and for us to accept all your concessions, because he thinks this is peace, well, but interestingly, that the peace talks actually started in the public sphere, that is, the parties voiced their positions, well, tomorrow ukraine will voice them, and well, in principle, we know what the ukrainian positions are, this is not what happened in istanbul, when no one knew, and what it happens there and the text appeared later. already after an attempt at change, it seems to me that such open public diplomacy is much fairer and this diplomacy is understandable for citizens, well, it seems to me that it gives an answer to why russia is not at this global peace summit, because what is there to negotiate with them , that is, he made a false start, in principle, as a matter of fact, and i wanted to say about it that, apparently , i do not agree with you, serhiy, that
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we have a foreign ministry... who has no reason to enter into a controversy with him, and all that says putin, he imagines that he is present at the summit in in switzerland, where he was not called, baba yaga still came, and here i am telling you, say whatever you want, you are illegitimate as president, well, that is known, yes, putin is just a usurper of power, and so is ukraine. does not enter into negotiations with putin, unless it is negotiations about the capitulation of russia, what can we talk about, well, with this person who calls himself the president, let him call him whatever he likes, especially since those packages of sanctions, which are now fortunately large , and the states and britain gave russia, well, he has something to think about. and
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a person starts talking about er ukrainian regions where russian troops have entered, and on this basis they have already become russian regions, well, well, what kind of polemic can he be such a madman, because it turns out that he is proposing, so that the entire world community agrees and records in the agreement, in the treaty on security for russia, that putin... did the right thing when he took part of the state, and this part of the state, probably, like several european states in general , well, for the territories , that is, he wants for the world to record and put its signature and say that okay, everything is fine, and then, then different stories begin all over the world, because there are many such stories, when one state claims the territory of another, chaos begins, because international legal relations cease to work.
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andriy, too? it seems to me that he does not think so deeply, that he is a little like a bandit, he always shouts that he is a lawyer, i graduated from the law school, there are lawyers who simply read the laws there according to the letter, but not about the spirit the law they do not think about justice and not about a fair trial, but are looking for hints on how to use these norms to their advantage, so he is rather such a legalist, a literalist, but... as for that, regarding his proposals, she looks like the bandit habit is just to take a punt, so what is it called, well, he comes out and tries to intimidate you, and he already says that this is the last offer, there will be no more offers, it will be worse, let's agree to what i offers you, and if you give some slack, then...

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