about reality and what it means to me, and they actually move us to some, well, they can move us to some meaningful action, in fact, when, for example, we talk about guilt, and we feel that maybe i can do something more for your country now, uh, and when that guilt is like that, constructive, and we actually choose to take some kind of meaningful, worthwhile action, then that's okay, guilt has served its function, yeah, when we see that... guilt just does if we are incapacitated, then it already becomes useless, so actually, i have another question about this anxiety, and it seems to me that this anxiety, i even remember last year, how i just left with a concert and to france, where we spoke about ukraine in front of the french, there were french journalists.

as if they were talking about helping us, but i also came, and i remember we lived in a mansion with a swimming pool, and i just couldn't relax, that is, i said: "solomia, be glad, there is a swimming pool, you are safe, but i have this anxiety, it's like you know how something like that just stuck to me from behind, and it was so dangerous, and i i remember that we flew there, because we lived not far from some small..." planes were flying all the time, i just really squatted down and dived under the water four or five times, because my psyche was already set, well, for bombing, although i was on the front line, but i heard these explosions, i didn’t observe it as much as the guys at ground zero, they have it all the time, and...

how can you even have such anxiety when you have already left and rest somewhere or in the same carpathians or something else, and she just follows you, ugh, uh, well, first of all, me i would treat her like, well, how in general we teach people to be with emotions, we just look at them first, we notice that this anxiety is happening to me, and then we give them a place for such acceptance. to be there, because when we are in a hurry to get rid of it, it often does not work, well, most often it does not work, and we see that i am also worried, but it is happening to me now, and we give the opportunity to that inner experience to unfold, we give it to ourselves the opportunity to hear what this emotion is telling me, is there anxiety, she tells me that i think you are not in danger, but you have to protect yourself somehow, then we can already give an answer and, for example, in the case ... when you are really in

a safe place and can rest, you already you can rationally calm it down a little, explain it to yourself, and you can, well, have some kind of such a set of strategies that can help you, this is either some kind of people who are safe, you can spend time with them, or these are some useful behavioral strategies, and or even just self-compassion when we can afford it to say that i'm so sorry that it's winter... it happens to me, i'm so stressed, but we also can't ask ourselves to take it and relax, because our nervous systems, they spend a lot of resources to adapt to that life is in danger, and here, when we momentarily fall into a safe space at night, it is difficult to adjust, by the way, i also noticed this myself, that when i went abroad with performances there, i wanted to return home, right? there might be some rocket explosions here and there,

although lviv is enough and western ukraine is more or less safe, a safe zone, and i , this will actually be another topic of our conversation , not with olea, but with other psychotherapists who work with the military, and i just know military people who also do not feel feel okay and safe, they want to return to the same front because they have others here... ugh, well, it's a new environment again, you 've already adapted, and you have to adjust again, that is, in principle, we can say, that our psyche, we, we can say so, that we are used to war, to a certain extent yes. and is it scary to get used to war? well it's

a natural adaptation, we're different, we probably wouldn't be able to handle it if we had the same levels of fear that we had in the early days there full scale. invasion, for example, i remember when i also went to the front line, and i was coming to mykolaiv, and well , mykolaiv was just full of such things, there were constant explosions, all this had not yet liberated kherson, i remember how three boys were playing football, and i thought, how is it possible to play football at all, that is, they were already ok, they did not even bend down when there something baba... they were already there, how could the ball roll out into the street, the soldiers were on their way , they took the ball away quite quickly, that is , people with automatic weapons were constantly walking around them, but they just lived like that, uh, there, and it

struck me so much, these boys playing football, half of the house, for example, is gone, and recently... my friend also came and said: i am so scared, because my children are here, i have such an impression , that they have already forgotten that there is a war, they just live like this, especially teenagers, er, and she asked the question is, is it worth reminding them about the war, is it worth constantly saying, ugh, what will it lead to then, and well, i think we have to strike a certain balance here, because... here there are moments when it is safe, but we can relax too much and sometimes we don't take care of our safety, there are moments like our contribution, and what we do for our country, and here, too, you can lose the feeling that we have to

volunteer, contribute, so you can lose the sense of urgency, if you tell yourself too much, well everything will be somehow. a life where you need to strengthen yourself, where you need to take care of yourself take care, and so you can't forget for a little while , that is, be in a space where here and now you are, for example, in a circle of safe people, and you can just pick yourself up, regulate your nervous system a little, but again, we have to understand what when we say there about... "i'm tired of war". this phrase, it sounds so very triggering, because it simply mixes two concepts, it mixes the physical, well , emotional state that a person experiences, yes, and it is normal, it actually exists in everyone, and it also

mixes something like this choice, i choose indifference, maybe it sounds like i'm tired and i don't care, but these are not identical things, we can feel... fatigue and at the same time try to somehow regulate it and choose valuable, meaningful actions, that is, this doesn't mean if i feel tired i don't care. i wanted to ask you another question, i know that you are in cbt, ugh, and there in cbt, you don’t talk for a long time, you take some fear or something, even the same anxiety, emotion, and some event, and in principle, on every event... you add emotions, and then there is an action, how, how it can be changed, and actually what i wanted, you know, yes, to give people, i don’t know, a wonderful fishing rod with which you can catch beautiful

fish, i don’t know, joy or something else, this is the first thing, but first i would like to talk with you about these such... ashes, and , what kind of scary pictures do people draw for themselves, is it even useful to even think about the fact that now a rocket will fly there, i often hear that i need to paint myself well, because i can lie there in the bathtub, or there, some people sleep dressed , that, because a rocket will fly, and then they will find my corpse and i will be there naked, or it's also... well, it's normal to live in such, especially here, again, i emphasize the western territory, where there is no active hostilities, uh, well, it's useful to the extent to which it's functional and, that is, to the extent that it's fear

that drives us before making some decision, there, for example, i am afraid of this missile, when an air alert is announced, i see from... well , the reports that these missiles are flying, and i, for example, decide that in such a case i will be in the corridor , or i will still go to the storage room, and that makes me... better, it's easier, it's functional, it's a solution that unburdens my brain, but it doesn't stay constant, it reduces my anxiety, it's functional, it's functional, such fear, yes, on the other hand, if i'm only afraid , i can't do anything, it's out of my control , then, of course, this is fear, which will only exhaust us, and then it is better to apply some such psychological techniques so that, what can we say to this person? a mother-in-law who constantly gets dressed every evening, every night, even if she sleeps, wearing boots, well, if it

greatly impairs the quality of life, and she also suffers from it, then in this she can find motivation to do something about this fear, if she does not suffer from it, then for sure we will not tell her anything, we will not advise her, ugh, but people who, for example, have anxiety, and they... are lying in the bath and someone is ready, i know that i have a friend who says: i am ready to receive this rocket, but here i am clean, that's all , everything is cool, there are, there are such people, eh, and we promised you that we will give you some resource tips in this blog, ugh, whatever you could advise people, again, who are not at the front, and even families. uh, men, brothers, sisters, who are on the front lines, and what

can we here, uh, here, how can we support ourselves to have the resources to support even them there, uh, uh, well, i think that we can apply, divide, probably ours are both internal and external, its resources, yes, and if we talk about... well, maybe let's start with the external ones, because they are so more obvious, we can look at our life, yes, we can even make a diary for yourself for a few days to observe what we are doing, and how this activity affects us, whether it exhausts us, whether it gives us strength, and we can do the simplest management of these things and a little, maybe delete some of them, some... put some on pause, and some increase, if we see that there is some activity that really improves

the mood, but it is very little there, we can plan it a little more, and in terms of our internal capabilities to regulate it, then of course it is this emotional component, that is , what do we do with this huge guilt or shame, and learn to be a little with these emotions, and between them. and make some kind of choice, what am i going to do with it, well, yes, but not to let them swallow us too, i just remember, too, i was very deep in volunteerism, and i just had the impression that i was already living at the front, well , non-stop, and i remember that i wasn't just tired, i didn't get out of bed anymore, i started having some health problems, and it was like i was here, although a lot. helped there, it was a bunch of free concerts where i didn't get any

again, also a financial resource, it was a meeting place, i collected funds and sent them there, it was some kind of constant sending, it was constant viewing of videos where cars burned down in them, what is needed for these cars, what is needed for these jeeps, and and i don't like it, that is, i don't like... iron and cars, although i drive a car, but it's not my hobby, i just remember at some point that i disconnected from this volunteer, i was so tired of it , and although my conscience and a sense of guilt gnawed wildly at me, what about the boys and girls there, what could i be useful, but i just realized at some point that i'm not useful, uh, because i couldn't raise my hands anymore, i couldn't... pick up the phones, i couldn't negotiate anymore, because i'm just a resource, that's all , as well as

financial, where i simply messed up everything, and i also had a moment when i already went to the lombard, that is, i really did not even have my son oleksy, he is 15, worried that we would not be able to financially buy something and we won't just rake it in. no way, and i remember very well my struggle inside, how come they are there, and it was still bakhmut then, and and and in general. but i just somehow thought to myself that all these people who were around me, who help the boys, they are, they remain, they are men who have more, perhaps physical resources, who prefer to get these spare parts to cars, to thermal imagers, i said, you stay there, it's okay, there are these phones, they

are there, but i'm going, ugh, i'm going, i honestly recovered, that is, i continued to sing. concerts, volunteered, but it was no longer such an inclusion, and active in fundraising, as it was before that, and getting a bunch of spare parts there and something else, i just remember this state of mine, where i was wildly tormented by this feeling of guilt, how could i do that, but then i actually you talk about this action all the time, and i resumed art therapy, because i realized that it is a greater resource for me. we created this retreat with my mom circle, where you and i met, and where we can give a greater resource to the women there, again, who may be waiting for someone from the front, who are also tired during the war, not of the war, and ugh , i just saw that i could be more useful there in my projects with lullabies or with poets,

singing and, i just remember how my battery started to charge and. it was also social work, but i am now, we are already there, i finally came and we collected a huge amount again, again for the armed forces, i am just sharing with our listeners what i have in this way, and this is what olya is talking about, that you need to be active all the time, that it is just a feeling of guilt, it is, as i have already learned, by the way, on this, on this program. by the way, about dodgers, what is it is useful, a sense of guilt, that then it does not speak of some kind of psychopathy or narcissism, because it is, it is, it turns out to be normal when a person feels guilty for some action he has committed, if it is all in healthy well, it is useful, if it corresponds to reality, if it

regulates us in our activities, if it is within certain limits and frameworks, and here... it was also important to start doing something of my own, to go somewhere, i remember that in i had this prayer: "god, give me people with whom i can be filled, and who can me to inspire." ugh, i needed this so much, i mean, i didn't want to hear that there's a war, and it's going to last for many years, that it's something else, something else, something else, i thought, okay, well, you say, that this war will last for many years, we are already there without resources, in anxiety, well, in danger, but actually, what can we do about it, what can we do if it really lasts for many years, well, you you talk about this experience, and i understand that at the first stage you had burnout, that's how it sounds, well, that’s a year for no, it was almost

a year and a half of such a very deep volunteering, maybe even more, because i practically started to actively volunteer very much at the beginning of a full-scale, and well, it lasted there, well, more than a year and a half, actually, but it was waiting for me so much very much, well, burnout is an even more complicated process, even than fatigue, because fatigue is actually the first stage of burnout, then we already understand that there are already changes, then a person can lose some meaning in that activity, he does not feel your achievement empathy may increase, decrease, and some cynicism may increase, if there are further stages, and accordingly , a person actually loses that function, that is, the fact that you managed to reorient yourself and according to your values ​​to another activity, and find some kind of balance between what it doesn’t exhaust you so much, and somewhere it fills you up a lot, you remember people, it’s

a huge resource, in fact people with whom we are on the same wavelength, and with whom... with whom we are insecure, and this does not mean that i have forgotten about the people who are at the front, that is, it doesn't matter, that it was my inclusion anyway, because i remember that at one of the art therapies we also collected money and the girls transferred the funds to the front, and then we held an auction there, where we sang, we collected a large amount and also sent it to front, that is, i lead to the fact that i really want the listeners, the people who watch us on youtube, so that they ... just understand that we can and adjust, uh, and if we are exhausted somewhere here, somewhere we are here if we can't, then we can recruit elsewhere. of this resource, again i have it there were even moments, i remember such moments, i just share my experiences, that i just

took headphones there, because there were often sirens, and i went to the forest and just breathed, because i knew, that is, it is possible that it is worth finding some such places strength, the one where you have this place where you can be alone, breathe in, breathe out and come back. to return to this life, i remember that i also went to the pool there, i just lay down on the water, i did not even have the physical strength to swim, i lay down and people looked at me, but my body was so tired, that i couldn't do anything at all, but i just went to this pool, because i knew a little bit, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, you love water, you love to dive there, and it, i also knew that it was... it doesn’t work either, that ’s it, but it’s just that when we even did a retreat, and when we danced and sang there, especially for me singing, yes, when

you released that scream, because many of us also forbid ourselves to scream, and , we forbid ourselves, i don't know, to be aggressive and angry, because, well, how can we, and sometimes we also break down, and on... our relatives, and it will be like that, i probably don't know, olya can share advice that it's worth it, the one when you let yourself go. well, actually, when we have space to share with, and with whom to understand that i am not alone in this experience, others have it, and when you are accepted, yes, when you are not judged, not pushed away, just ready to hear , it actually has a lot of healing power, and well, we're wired so that we're our... nervous systems regulate each other, yeah, because we're from childhood, uh, we get the first information about whether the world is safe from our parents, and who we are, for example, they are close to us, and they tell us, everything

is fine, they can stroke us there, and we get used to it, that this is a sign of safety, and when we are already in adulthood, one of one is also so safe, we give these signals, these are some kind of body hugs, some kind of adjustment, in particular, singing works just as well as co-regulation, yes. when we all do it together, we act together, we support each other, and can we also say that people look for their people, definitely, this a huge resource, and i want to draw so much attention here to the fact that we are talking about fatigue today, that fatigue can give us a little dust in our eyes, because when we are tired, we tend to be more irritable. we have less resources to withstand someone's emotions, and relationships in general, maintaining a relationship requires resources, and even when we lack it, we tend to isolate ourselves, close ourselves off, and this,

unfortunately, leads us to such a kind of next cycle of fatigue, and because we are already losing an important source of support, so we need to look for people, z which ones are good, this is almost the first point, i would say, and, by the way, look for the actual ones with which ones are good. oh, i also recorded it, i was there now, well , it was mother’s day in may, and i sang for disabled children and from families with special children, i also realized that i don’t have the resources, i don’t have the resources at all to be with them and be the way i was before the full-scale war, that is , to tell them something, to give them, and then i remember how a girl approached me. down syndrome and she just put her arms around me and i thought, "oh my god, this girl, because, well, she might not to realize that there is a war in her

country, her parents love her, this center in which she lives, everything is fine, and she came up wearing such a crown, and i thought: "my god, child, you have no idea what you have now given me a resource with that sunny smile of yours, although before that i thought, my god, that i would agree to it, because what tormented me the most was that i would not be able to give them this hand, this holding of this hand, but it turns out , that they also became a resource for me, i think that now we all as a society live in such a mode that somewhere i supported you, somewhere you me, and such an exchange, there everyone gathered somewhere, gave somewhere, and this is just what affected me the most, i remember... when i told the military man, i say, you never ask how i am, he said, to all of us it's hard, and i thought: no, i want to talk, i

want to hear how hard it is for you. "i want to share with you too, maybe you won't hear that it's just difficult, you know, maybe you'll hear some story that will become a resource for you too, and probably so in conclusion, i also want to say that speak what you hurts don't be afraid to say that you don't have a resource there, don't be afraid to talk about the same fatigue, and here olya corrected me very correctly when we met. i said yesterday, or when you wrote, that this is not fatigue from war, but that it is actually fatigue during war, and this is quite normal, so i want more from you, we have a few seconds to hear such, your, your such short advice, well, i would like to sum up this conversation by saying that if we give a proper response to this fatigue, we will not

ignore it. it actually makes it more likely that that we will continue to make value -correct choices, as opposed to pretending for a while that we're not tired and that we're not, and eventually, maybe one day we'll do some, you know, some reactive behavior when we're fed up , i am giving up everything , and this is not something that will help us in the long , long distance, so... i would like to wish everyone to treat themselves with attention, with kindness, because we need it now the most, today i hear you on the program , was olga antoshik, a clinical psychologist, a consultant in the method of cognitive-behavioral therapy, and we talked about fatigue during the war, and i want to finish this

program somehow so resourcefully, because... fatigue is always like that, we, we are tired, we are tired of the war, and i want tell you, be honest with yourself, uh, be honest, because that honesty gives when we're angry, when we're tired, when we're aggressive, take care of yourself, take care of who you hang out with, we're talking a lot about toxic people these days , environment, really, as olya said in this program, surround yourself people who can give you a resource, give you support, give you love, now there are a lot of retreats, various art therapies, huge ones i was able to go somewhere, just within the country, and i know that now men are not outgoing, just just relax, don’t close yourself off from this world, do not close yourself in

guilt. and don't cover yourself from fatigue, so i wish you all to find your own places of strength in this country, and in this way we will be able to help even more the armed forces and the military at the front, and when they return here, they will receive healthy people who will be able to be with them, hear them and accept them. so thank you, solomiya chubay was with you, and this is the "i hear you" program. there are discounts, represent unbreakable discounts on hepatrombin gel. 15% in travel pharmacies, you and savings. do you suffer

from heartburn? i recommend... interacts with the acid in the stomach to reduce the symptoms of pachia. izota is your water if heartburn bothers you. exclusively on the air of our channel. congratulations, friends, politklub is on the air on the espresso tv channel. the most relevant topics of the week: russia's war against ukraine, the war in... the east, crisis on the border between ukraine and poland. topics that resonate in our society. drone attack on kyiv and other cities of ukraine, drone attack on moscow and other russian cities. analysis of the processes that change the country and each of us. country.