of people who, say, were persecuted, ah, and in relation to whom there are sentences, there are many more of them, but we will distinguish between criminal prosecution and deprivation of liberty, and persecution for political reasons, but which, thank god, ended only with administrative ones by punishments, by administrative punishments, i don't know if any civil rights organizations are currently keeping such a list, but they have already gone a long way there, about a thousand people, starting from the breakthrough of the blockade, well, starting from february 26, 2014, because the russians, as soon as occupied crimea, they began to attract people to, well, not... to attract, but to repress people

for the events that took place, them, but, if they would rely on their laws, which took place when they were not physically close to crimea, that is before the occupation of crimea, well, on february 26, but they brought a large group of people to court, those who took part in the breakthrough of the administrative border. on may 3, we met the leader of the crimean people. mr. mustafa dzhemilev, well, and then, as they say, went, those people who, er, were tried criminal cases, you called this number, the number of them for 300 articles, who are now in places of detention, er, in places of detention, deprivation of liberty, er, such people, er, but about 230, i can be wrong by several numbers now, because there is also... the most painful dynamic for us is this

category of our people who are deprived of their freedom, because the main part, a significant part of them, are people who are deprived for 12, 13, 15, 17, 19 years, as a rule, they are either terrorists , saboteurs, or i don't know, some other accusations, and these are just these people russia is trying. it is as far as possible to take revenge on them, and she does not want to discuss them , and the liberation of these people is our main, main task. well , the liberation of mr. nariman dzhulyal is really a very successful experience for us, for ukraine, for the entire crimean tatar people and the families of our political prisoners, who really appeared. hope that other political

prisoners will also be released please tell rifega here is this successful experience with mr. nariman jellyal is more the exception than the rule or are we still his away, we can use this experience, the experience of exchange, you see, for now, for now it is an exception, in my opinion, i don't know how it will turn out. to evaluate, because er, well, so much so that the russians avoid the release of political prisoners in general, which is simple here, i may not know some points here, because it is directly at the stage when , excuse me, the negotiations are going on from the russian side, because they and to their own, they treat their own people as er... a resource, manipulating

which they can achieve their own goals, and therefore they transfer this approach to our people as well, that is, they are holding our political prisoners, if somewhere there are some problems that are very relevant for them, which they want to solve, because they also have... there are people who find themselves in a situation of deprivation of liberty, either in us or in third countries that are very necessary for the regime, well, it could be employees of the russian special services, or some highly visible military personnel there, i have no right to say, but i want to say that these inhumans are russian, they really lead, they are like on well how they trade and... as only they

they see in the lists people who are waiting for the ukrainian society, or people who do not break there in prisons in... they give the highest price for them, and after receiving this price, they still do not release them for a moment, they simply leave negotiations, that's why we need to approach this way and find such issues and such forms of pressure on russia so that it cannot refuse to release our people, we cannot leave... well, no, not because we, we are so weak , and for now, well, there are no such, you know, such topics that russia would say, okay, we will give yours politicians, but you will do one or the other, there

must be very painful problems for them, and that is why we sometimes involve third countries, but nothing cooperates, sometimes there are references to economic projects. that we can prevent russia from promoting its economic interests there in the third or fourth countries, but i want to repeat once again that the russians very clearly feel such indomitable ukrainian patriots, and when it is their turn to discuss, they do not give them away, as a rule, and so it also happens with prisoners of war, look at azov, they give one small group, others are kept. there are women, prisoners of war, ukrainian soldiers, women are there, they do not give them away, because they consider it to be a very important resource for trade, they are waiting when they have to offer us something, well, something, so that we go to them to

greater concessions like that, it's terrible, and i say this as a person who is not involved in a lot of details, but what i know is that it's really terrible, they, they are ... people's lives, cynically that's all sounds and looks, but we are no different from the russians, the occupiers expected, but here is the recent decision of the european court of human rights, regarding human rights violations in crimea, could this be some kind of leverage, or are the russians not paying attention to the decisions of international structures, while they are flaunting what they have not implemented and will not implement, well are showing off, because you know that in march, it seems, as soon as this full-scale invasion began, and these terrible crimes of russia, russia was thrown out of the council of europe, and this convention for the protection of human rights and fundamental freedoms, and thus russia believes that if

i am not mistaken, since april she is no longer among the participants. of the european court of human rights, and therefore it will proceed from the fact that all these decisions will not be implemented by it, but nevertheless, this decision is historic, i am not exaggerating here, if i also mention here that before that there was a decision of 2021 , when the european court, as a first, well, such a first, intermediate such decision, approved that russia exercises effective control over crimea from february 27, 2024, 2014. russia really wanted it, it fought for it to happen

the approved decision that she, they say, uh, will answer from after the crimeans have held some kind of referendum, asked to be included in the composition. russia, and that is, they wanted to answer sometime on march 21, 2014, but the court said no, in the morning, well, from the 27th, remember, the 26th, it was such an all-crimean mass meeting at the call of the midjlis of the crimean people, then we endured situation, we allegedly ensured that the ukrainian law enforcement agencies took power into their own hands, but we did not imagine then that such... and the large scale of treason in the crimean units of the special services of ukraine, and then the russians on the morning of february 27, 2014, they already openly and proceeded to capture crimea, with

weapons, with weapons, the special forces captured volonik , they, that is, then these people, that rally forced putin to go to option b, and he in the eyes of... the whole shocked world, he began to take crimea by military means, and the court showed it, the russians were shocked, and now this is the last decision you asked about, now... the court said that according to all the claims of ukraine, on all articles of the convention on protection of human rights, the russians are guilty, i'm just sure that when the results or preparations for the special international tribunal to consider the crimes committed and committed by russia against ukraine will be drawn up, i think that this decision will be simple, well, it will ensure that and ... the results, especially on reparations, on compensation to

individual citizens, all this will be of great importance. thank you, chokhsaglnost, for taking the time to join our broadcast. before meeting. we thank you. ryfat chobarev, head of the interforest of the crimean tatar people, was in the berber program, together with ukrainian, a joint project of the crimean tatar tv channel atr and the tv channel. with us, see you, goodbye, there are discounts at travel pharmacies and savings of up to 30%. discounts are valid until the end of july. what is beauty? beauty is what you find beautiful. dopeel gerz collagen beauty. for more elastic skin and a reduction in the depth of wrinkles. there are discounts representing the only discounts on estezifin 20% in

pharmacies of travel stores and savings. there are discounts representing the only discounts on mikrolax 20% in travel pharmacies to you and save. vasyl zima's big broadcast. my name is vasyl zima, this is big ether for... two hours to keep up with economic news, time to talk about money in wartime. oleksandr morshchevka is next to me and news of sports, i invite yevhen pastukhov to the conversation, i will spend two hours in the company of my loved ones.

vasyl zima's big broadcast, a project for smart and caring people, at dinner at espresso. to take the wounded from the battlefield in time means to save his life, gave a lift to the bc, gave a lift to the boys. quad bike is the way from zero to our life at this stage of the war, an atv is the best solution for evacuating the wounded from scratch. we call on everyone to donate to the collection from zero to life for atvs for the 93rd cold river brigade in the direction of chasiv yar. congratulations,

friends, the saturday political club program is on the air, andriy smoliy and vitaly portnikov, traditionally, on saturday, we talk about the most important events of this week, which are important for ukraine and the world, and today is the second week in a row, in a slightly updated format, without guests, we will communicate with... we will discuss these most important topics, and what topics in general concern our society, concern the whole country, of course, this is also what putin once again mentioned, and the arrival of orban, to ukraine, and then to russia , the elections in great britain, we will definitely discuss it, because... it is important, and we will discuss again, of course, the elections

in the united states of america, because it is very important, and there are many other topics, france, and not only all this will be within the next two hours until the 21st, and the first block of ours the discussion is still a military one, it will concern both the nato summit and putin's statements that we are talking about... about the nato summit, by the way, it will take place next week, mr. vitaly, what should we expect from this summit anyway nato, as far as i understand, from the statements we have, it is clear that there will not be any... breakthrough, and yet, maybe there will be some nuances that can be considered important for our country, or will there be nothing? i don't think there will be anything, nato can't afford anything, so obviously they will take certain steps that should have convinced others that ukraine will be

a member of nato, but it seems to me that now... the main topic is not just membership in nato as such, but first of all the guarantee of security, and it is precisely the guarantee of security that we should talk about, because by and large on the whole, i consider it a completely frivolous situation that we discuss all the time when we discuss with western politicians how effectively ukraine can fight russia, well , of course, if ... we get more weapons, we have f -planes -16, we will have some new weapons, we we can russia, at least stop it in its offensive actions, at least start some new offensive actions of our own, but let's imagine that we

got all this there for 3-4-5 months, used it, stopped it, they stopped. we won back something, we even returned some new territories that were under their occupation, and then three or four months later the elections for the president of the united states were held, donald trump became president, or even not donald trump, and joseph biden became president, and the republicans are the majority in the congress, they start theirs again to drag out time, and for another six months, they dragged it out for another six months, then they gave it to us again. weapons, we stopped them somewhere again, they stopped again, restored something, got something, some north korean shells went off again, how long should this continue, where is the end that we want to see at the end of this tunnel, that is, the end in the exhaustion of russia , but

again, if it happens solely from the point of view of how much... the west is ready to effectively help us, and not only the west, but also the united states, however, the main thing is the united states, this depletion can be sporadic: today it is depleted, and tomorrow it is not depleted, it restores potential again, then it turns out that we have to pay attention to every parliamentary and presidential election in every country in nato. so in france , these parliamentary elections are taking place tomorrow, which you and i are also going to talk about, came to power, let's say, the national union party, marine le pen, it was forbidden, as ms. marine already says, to strike with french weapons on the territory russia, the day after tomorrow, some elections were held in germany, because a coalition was formed there, they agreed on a coalition with some other participants, as they say, ukraine needs to be helped, but with such a limitation, and

again, that means we do not know what we can do, what we cannot be done, that is, i cannot continue. to infinity, that is why i say that my formula, i think it is more logical, is to provide ukraine with effective security guarantees, that is, the west must decide that this cannot happen as it is happening, the west has for itself to realize how to end this war, i believe that this war can be ended, let's say , finally, when ukraine receives effective security guarantees and becomes a member of nato. in all other conditions, well, you ended the war, well , you even received some kind of treaty with russia, well, let’s imagine, a peace treaty, even there you fixed some kind of contact line or even a state border, who will believe in it, well, that is, some number of people will decide , well, we will live in a neutral country or in

a country that is a candidate for nato membership, but before nato is not joining. until some transitional period has passed, will you feel safe? no, of course, by the way, i also say this, like you, to the people with whom i communicate, and i say the same on the air, that is, i similarly understand that without guarantees from nato and the united states america, ukraine will simply turn into a conditional gray zone in such a situation, of course, but not just a gray one. the zone, the zone in which war may break out at any moment. this is not exactly neutrality, but you understand, we have examples of neutrality in europe, yes? well. i don't think that we will now discuss the example of the neutrality of the swiss confederation, uh, but because it is simply

surrounded on all sides by western powers, it always was after the second world war, and during the second world war it was not attacked by germany, it such neutrality is conditional because germany simply decided that it needed to retain swiss statehood. their political goals, but imagine if they decided that it was worth not leaving, neutrality would also help switzerland, i don’t sure, the same anschluss could happen with austria, well, this stage has already been passed, but austria is another neutral state, well, today it is also surrounded on all sides by nato member countries, but there was a period in its history when it was neutral, but the warsaw pact... on its border, czechoslovakia, hungary, that is , the soviet union could theoretically attack it, and it turns out that it lived under guarantees of neutrality from the allies during

the second world war, but this was the situation after the second world war world wars, that's how they are decided west germany under the security protectorate of the allies, east germany under the security protectorate of the soviet union, and austria under the joint security protectorate, it remained so. because the soviet union perfectly understood that if it attacked austria in this situation, it would destroy the entire architecture of european security, including the recognition of its own sphere of influence, because this is not just the neutrality of austria, it is the recognition of the russian soviet influence in poland, czechoslovakia, hungary, bulgaria, romania, so it's a package, you know? and with this package, austria was able to survive until the collapse of the soviet union and until the moment when it was finally separated from russia by the border of the countries of central europe. and how can we get

such a package of guarantees? how can we, if we have a border with russia, decide that she will not attack us next time. because again, no interstate agreement is a guarantee here. we had an interstate agreement with russia. the big contract was signed by the presidents. boris yeltsin and leonid kuchma. i remember well as yeltsin was expected in kyiv. it was simply the expectation of the most important event, precisely because the ukrainian leadership believed that if he signed this treaty, it would, in principle, guarantee ukraine's security and sovereignty. if russia considers us an independent sovereign state, recognizes our territorial integrity, then what else should we expect? after all, all other states have no doubts about ukrainian statehood, and yeltsin did not just sign this agreement, he also signed another agreement, he did not sign it, but in his presence, the basing

of the black sea fleet in sevastopol was signed, and by the way, the fact that yeltsin refused to come and sign a large agreement without this agreement on the black sea fleet could somehow make someone think, this was their main condition with ... first the fleet, then the big contract, that is why, in principle, the agreement on the fleet is not what it could have been, even at that stage, that is , we squeezed everything we could out of it, but president leonid kuchma was so interested in coming yeltsin, that he put pressure not only on the russian delegation, but not on his own, so it was difficult for yevhen marchuk in this situation to talk with oleg soskovets, the head of the russian delegation, because he saw how the president of ukraine was interested in the soon arrival of the president of the russian federation, here is an example, that is , we come to the point that

we have no other option, except covering the territory that we control with the nato umbrella, because any other security agreement, no matter how it sounds, may not be implemented a priori. of course, we need no just an umbrella, and the fact that russia recognized the right to this umbrella, so that she agreed to this, plus, we well understand that any country that gives us such a guarantee may change power, that is, this agreement, it must be absolute to be fulfilled, i see now the only such treaty, this is the treaty on the north atlantic alliance, where a large number of states can be... such guarantors, collective, collective treaty, and if it is a treaty, let's say, between ukraine and the united states of america , but comes to power, well conditionally, trump says, i don't like it.

then this thing simply may not work, well, if it is ratified by the congress, it will work for anyone, but we understand that it is very difficult to imagine such a treaty on strategic partnership or strategic defense at this moment. well , look, trump's team is now thinking about how, in principle, to remove itself from the risk in europe in general, uh, they started talking about some kind of two-tier nato, that the nuclear umbrella will remain, american troops. will leave europe, you understand that for such people countries like russia is a sign of weakness, they started talking about the fact that those countries that fully pay into the nato budget will be protected by the united states in the event of an attack, and those that fully pay into the budget will not be protected, that according to them, the fourth article does not guarantee the need for mandatory protection, if they will speak with such theses in the event of donald trump's return to the white house, the question will arise as to how

effective nato is as a guarantee of security. can generally lead to the collapse of the nato system itself, to this very foundation, on which nato stands, because if there is selective protection or, for example, first 2%, and then they say three, well, look, we have to really understand donald trump, as a person, as a politician interested in the destruction of the international security system, there is no need for any illusions again, he did not hide this last time, he simply did not succeed, because he... fought not only with the international system, but also with the american one, and he for a long time could not get rid of those advisers who were active against this. now it can be completely different, and now this international security system can be reformatted quite quickly, that is , he can really not leave nato, but actually create conditions under which american commitments to nato will be fake, and try to transfer, let's say, the level of security in the middle east and the pacific.

a region where it also may not be perceived as they think, because they may believe that an american withdrawal from europe will mean that america can be taken from anywhere smoke out, if you create uncomfortable conditions for it, here putin started a war against ukraine, and the americans got out of europe away from sin, so in order to scold the americans, you need to continue some kind of actions that will encourage them to rejuvenate, the korean peninsula, close east. the asia-texas region, this is such an ideal situation of pearl harbor, that is, you do not want to participate in european affairs, and you are struck from another direction, where you do not expect to be struck, because you are sure that if you left europe, then you concentrated all your forces in another direction, in fact, leaving europe is perceived as a sign of weakness, by and large, this is how the states perceived the united states during the second world war, that since the americans

do not ... want to take participation in the defense of europe and adhere to an isolationist approach to politics, it means that they are afraid that they are not able to defend themselves, they are weak, they can be beaten, they will go everywhere instead, this was a false assessment, but in any case in this case, she was worth the lives of a thousand american young men, so now i can repeat myself, in principle, i believe that this is absolutely real, but at the same time , trump says that it is his coming to power that will stop any wars in the world, you understand, that is, to what extent we now see... double standards, on the one hand, we are observing preparations for the complete abolition of international law and, relatively speaking , the nato charter, on the other hand, trump is saying: listen, well, i will come, all wars will end, there will be peace in the whole world, well, i think that trump i'm just sure that he should be feared for some reason, huh, and secondly, that he can, let's say, buy mir-2. that he can

offer the dictators such favorable conditions that in principle will put an end to their ambitions. i don't think that will happen. first, i think that trump is a completely unrealistic thinking person. well, you know, trump supporters can think and say whatever they want, but we see and hear everything, we see a person who, in principle, is unable to formulate an opinion. well, i just can't formulate an opinion, but this reality. you can. all you want to say about president biden, that he is old, that he is whispering, that he is not feeling well, but when biden speaks, he speaks in complete sentences, trump does not speak in complete sentences, because he is unable to formulate a thought, just pure mentally i understand that to many people who vote for him and who are not able to formulate an opinion themselves, this seems normal, because a huge number of people in our world are not able to clearly formulate an opinion, firstly, because he does not think, and secondly, when

he thinks, he is confused in his thoughts. because there is no corresponding, i would say mental.