greetings, this is svoboda live on radio svoboda. we have already come to the snake itself. the following shots may shock you. news from the scene. live kamikaze drone attacks. political analytics, objectively and meaningfully. there is no political season. exclusive interviews, reports from the hottest points of the front. freedom of life, frankly and not forward. you draw your own conclusions. glory to ukraine, dear tv viewers, on the tv channel, the west studio program. we will analyze the most important events of this week, in particular , we will analyze the great putin kurultai vastani with the participation of representatives of turkey, china and so on and at the same time we will try to outline the parameters of polish-ukrainian security. agreements our

guests today are the iconic polish politician bohdan borusevych, as well as the famous political scientist who is in prague, oleksandr morozov. and now bohdan borusewicz, a legendary polish politician, marshal of the polish senate from 2005 to 2015 and now a senator, will work on the espresso tv channel. welcome to the espresso studio, mrs. marschalka. good day to you, good day to the audience. first of all, i would like to ask you how you assess the situation with the so-called. security for ukraine. we understand that this is a very difficult matter, ongoing negotiations between eu countries and nato members, and of course, the security agreement between poland and ukraine is currently on the table. actually, how do you see this structure? i am a supporter of political and military ties between ukraine and poland. and it's not just about deals, i think it's worth going further. of course, with the support of the americans, but we can stabilize. we are not talking about

the formula of this connection, but it should be a very close connection, then we will be able to stabilize this part of europe, because russia will continue to be a serious country, and russia has shown itself to be an aggressive country, revisionist, without a sense of borders, so we have a common interest, that is, i believe that these guarantees should provide a common. interest, this is not a one-way guarantee, and it is also a guarantee from ukraine to poland, this is how you need to think, this is how you need to analyze it, but you also know that, no guarantees will help if ukraine does not will protect itself, because in the end there were guarantees not in the form of an agreement, when ukraine gave up nuclear weapons, i remember how then the americans made sure that those nuclear weapons... in general, how

worried they were that the suitcase would go somewhere and will fall into the hands of terrorist groups, but so what, the guarantees for ukraine are just the supply of weapons, and i believe that it is necessary to go further, and poland should think, we should jointly think about some kind of alliance with the support of the americans. without such support, we will simply be thrown out of nato, and with support, the americans will then be able to move to... because in the end it will be natural, and all politicians are talking about it, not only trump, but also biden is talking about it, that american interests are primarily in asia at this moment, the problem of competition with china - not rivalry, no, but competition, serious competition, so if we went in that direction, everyone would be satisfied, actually, a lot will depend here on the so-called political elites, we are talking about specific people in warsaw. and kyiv. we've had a few difficult

months, and i haven't fully understood for myself, what happened, we are talking about some kind of cooling of relations between president duda and president zelensky. it is about a meeting at the united nations in the united states. now it seems that the climate has improved, and there is a chance again to continue polish-ukrainian cooperation in the field of security. but i want to say that there is a certain imbalance between poland and ukraine. and in that question i noticed it. in poland, the prime minister and the government are in charge, not the president. power rests in the hands of the prime minister, who has a level of power equivalent to chancellor the president controls the sphere of security and the sphere of defense, he also has competence in the sphere of foreign policy, mostly in appointing ambassadors, and that's it. instead, all power over the army, also over the security forces, that is, over the police, over the services, is concentrated in the prime minister. this

should be remembered when we talk about president zelenskyi and president duda here. yes, president zelenskyy has much more power here, in fact he has a dictator. why am i talking about this, because in poland the election time has come and the presidential party, that is, the right and justice, lost the election. and at the moment there is a completely different government, so if we talk and look, with whom we need to talk and decide now, it is with the government and the prime minister with tusk. well, how do you assess the situation? between the polish and ukrainian governments, between the polish and ukrainian authorities, because it is necessary to continue cooperation and possibly raise it to some completely different, higher level. the current government in poland, the civil coalition, of which i am a member, is the dominant party, and it is actually the government

of the coalition. it is also necessary to remember that prime minister tusk should take into account the opinion of the coalition partners, and the same with regard to ukraine. fortunately, we are continuing the policy that concerns ukraine, a policy that was launched immediately into a policy of support, military and political. voyskova is the fact that we transferred more tanks to ukraine than all of western europe combined. in fact, a huge amount, about 500 tanks, more than 50 powerful and modern battleships, 20 thousand starlinks, more than 500 electricity generators. and these are only such selected things, the most important thing for ukraine is, of course , military aid and support, but also political, that is, support for joining the eu, and here we give full support and support for joining nato. for poland, joining nato was much easier than joining the european union, because

joining nato is a political decision. the army should be led by a civilian. that army must be adapted, but there is a beginning of adaptation to the standard. economy to the standards of the european union, these are negotiations related to the transition period. and of course, negotiations are connected with the issue of grain. negotiations, negotiations. for example, when we had negotiations, we secured a long period during which there was a ban on the sale of land to foreigners, suddenly someone was afraid of it, grain, grain, mr. marshallka, back to grain, and what do you want if it is about grain? and what will happen to the european union market, which is open to ukraine, but there is still a separate position of polish farmers and the polish government. we must

take this into account, because we must also take into account the interests of our citizens. the farms are ours citizens and there will be a discussion, something will have to be done. and how intense will this discussion be, mr. marshalko? no, the discussion should take into account the interests of both parties, and it is quite possible that a transition period will be needed, just as we have for the purchase of land, in the eu there was a ban on the movement of polish labor, that is, workers from poland, and it worked. those fears disappeared after a couple of years. but you probably want to ask me about which grain. they are not there, and you know, if we keep an eye on it and in often agree, then they will not return,

but what is the situation now? there are no blockades at the moment, there are no blockades, and you also know that there is no grain in poland at the moment, that... means there is no grain, we are waiting for the new harvest, and it will be, then we will have grain, because now we don't have grain in poland, we exported 14 million tons, i recently spoke with a colleague who specializes in this, and actually asked him, he says: there is no grain in poland, we lack grain, i say, then we will buy it in ukraine, he answers which ukraine also does not have, because ukraine exported yes... fortunately, there will be a harvest in the near future, but it is time to realize that if a problem appears, it must be solved, and not wait for months and so on. the previous government did not address this, and the problem only grew. the price of grain decreased,

farmers claimed and complained that this was due to the influx of ukrainian grain. and that was because the price on world markets... also decreased, and that government told farmers: don't sell this grain now, because it will be more expensive in the fall. meanwhile, in the fall, the price of the grain decreased, so it was easy. here to explain, to develop such a theory that it is due to ukrainian grain or russian grain. so at this moment the situation is zero, but it is worth preparing for possible actions. of course, because we are entering the process of negotiations with the european union and we understand that poland has its voice, and poland will defend its interests, of course, ukraine will defend its own. yes, and it is necessary to reach something. but the most important thing is that those national interests do not collide. no, interests are... not such selfishness, although, of course, there are those who say: "it must be

i have to make money on it." yes, huge money - billions of euros. yes, but of course, during the negotiations, ukrainian agriculture, which is very powerful, is a problem. we have to agree here, because this is agriculture where artificial fertilizers are not used at all fertilizer, because there are protective agents for plants . and because of this, the price of such grain can be much lower. this also means additional payments for ukrainian agriculture. we already have the average surcharge in europe, but we started with lower ones. but if ukrainian agriculture enters, will it be possible to keep these additional payments at the same level, because ukraine will enter. so it's true. and our farms. especially the large-scale ones that make money from it will try to protect the level of those

surcharges, because it is billions of euros, it must be understood, but negotiations, conversations and so on are needed here. in a democracy, nothing can be done by force, but there must be consultation mechanisms, communication mechanisms between poland and ukraine power, and here i am not necessarily talking about any open consultations, but between the president of... ukraine and, for example, prime minister tusk, right? we were expecting a meeting, but it was slightly delayed, as far as we understand, for various reasons. what would the situation look like now, mr. marshalka, what are the prospects for the growth of this diplomatic-political-economic activity? we are active diplomatically, but we are also building our position in the european union, because we have lost this position: we are rebuilding the so-called weimar triangle, these are the meetings of poland. germany and france. and the role of poland has increased due to the fact that we are the country on the ukrainian

front, the closest to ukraine. aid goes to ukraine through us. because of us, because the hungarians blocked it. a little through romania, but most through us. grain exports go through romania, while military equipment goes through poland. this is not a secret. i am saying what the russians know very well. but we, we are politicians, i say. this to my colleagues and i was saying now to my ukrainian colleagues, they should talk and discuss what will happen after the war, how will polish-ukrainian relations develop, what do we want, what do we want those relations to look like, should it only be some general principle, as at the moment, should we treat ukraine better, ukraine is our neighbor and ally, so we we have a greater interest in cooperation with ukraine. than, for example, the germans, who have more funds and will have more funds, but have a smaller

national interest, and this is understandable, italy, spain are far away, and so are others, a different interest and a different attitude in the european union, this everything should be centered, it is not always so, because everyone looks after their own interests. in the union, the basis is understanding, consensus, because if... everyone will fight to the end for their own, well, the eu will collapse, there is no such union, but everyone will get something, and we will benefit from the union, i agree with you, but also in that there will also be a benefit for ukraine, because it is the case that the eu provides security, not only nato, but the european union, because these are multilateral economic ties, financial, as well as cultural, so you need to remember that they are quite complex. for nato now looks more difficult for ukraine, because

it is in conflict and wants to be accepted into nato, and it constantly strives for it. and what does joining nato mean? the fifth article, the most important. yes, this means putting article five into effect, that is, going to war, but not in the way that we give weapons, introduce our soldiers, and we understand that well, and the ukrainians also understand that well, and here we have something... . different interests, because ukraine would like to bring it to that. our goal, mr. marshalka, is victory over the russians, and it is, in the near future, that means. that we should to involve as much different equipment as possible, it is about aviation, air defense systems and so on, and there was such an idea to, for example, use polish air defense systems in order to cover the western cities of ukraine. i have been thinking about this for a long time, and i am a supporter of such a decision, because a rocket that flies to lviv is not known whether it will fall in poland, in

lublin, for example, or in rzeszow, well, that is known, yes, so we have to defend here. ukraine, but this issue is also for some intergovernmental agreements on defense and so on, because and on occasion, of course, we can't just shoot over ukraine to defend as well. why? and for example, if there was an agreement with the ministry of defense and the general staff. she must be. and she is not there now. of course, there is no such agreement. one country cannot shoot at another country without permission, without an agreement. even for its protection, they are constantly talking, putin says that poland wants to occupy a western country, they are constantly talking about it, i remember this conversation from zhirinovsky, but i wrote a letter, i talked with the russians then and well he told them, no, no, give something of your own, for example, the kaliningrad region, and not

someone else's, return smolensk to us, give the russians smolensk to us, no. smolensk is far away, and the kaliningrad region, so give us something of our own, and we will even share with the lithuanians ourselves, but you understand that this is an attempt at division, quite primitive, but we talked here about actions over ukraine, but the main thing is that patriot , which are already near the ukrainian border in the vicinity of rzeszów, this is the american patriot, and american, american commanders decide to shoot or not? that is, it should be a tripartite agreement, polish-ukrainian-american. but the americans will not agree to this, because they do not agree to far-reaching strikes on the territory of russia. now it has progressed very well, that it is possible to attack, to attack the territory of russia within at least 100 km near the border through kharkiv, because otherwise the russians

would fire at it without any losses for themselves and abroad, destroy the city, and leave. the russians, and this is the american answer, but the patriot batteries, which were located in the zheshov, are subject to the decisions of american commanders, the american leadership decides whether to shoot and where to shoot, we do not have such an opportunity, but poland still has its own system of patriots, you know, poland has fewer patriots than ukraine at the moment, so i will say in general, we don't have and let's return now to the system of protection of the ukrainian sky by the forces of poland and possibly not only poland. and to poland's capabilities. yes, the capabilities of poland and the capabilities of nato. that is, we need. so, yes. we gave the mig-29, we gave these planes. these are the problems you will have missile problems for the f-16. with the cover

of those airfields, the defense of airfields. we need to talk, discuss. but it's obvious that there's... damn military experts, but those planes, those f-16s, have to be protected, because there's no point in these planes being destroyed for three months, and the war is going on, and this plane is not extraordinary, it a good plane, but not extraordinary, because it can also be destroyed, just like american tanks, because i repeatedly, when i watch ukrainian television, suddenly there is a wave, there was a wave bayraktars, the waters are amazing, then tanks. abrams: abrams, but also leopards. that 's what it looked like, that's how it was shown, that's what the public was told, this weapon is not destroyed, every weapon can be destroyed, and f-16s can be destroyed, and they will be destroyed, but you have to prepare to just protect them, and you have to know where to put them. i once said that in a country with mountains, these things

are located in underground bases that are difficult to destroy, and the russians are already warning if... if they are located in the territories neighbors, i.e. we are talking about poland, then such bases will be under attack, i.e. russia will attack them, whether they will be attacked or not, i do not know, this is of course a matter for politicians, but from the technical side there are also military personnel who must know where, how and so on , what are the distances, i think that such a situation may arise, what macron said will become relevant, has poland joined this french proposal, or is it a solution, if such a situation were to happen? the polish prime minister said no, but maybe everything will change, but i... i think that such a sharp objection is not is good, let the russians not know to the end how we will behave, no one wants to go to the front, so while it is possible and while it is

effective, we should help with the weapons that ukraine needs. it's just that the situation can change in the states, mr. marshall, trump can come. and of course, macron and not only macron are thinking about the situation, what will happen in a few months. but then the european union will unite, it will go deeper. in ukraine, we greatly appreciate, for example, the help of poland, because it was done quickly. in a flash, very fast. yes, while in brussels they would only write documents to make phone calls between brussels and berlin. yes, but such assistance must be supported by society. you can do more harm than good, but i will tell you, i look at ukrainian men who are in poland, young men, it causes a negative

reaction from poles. we in ukraine are ready to accept them, but would poland be ready to give them or help us get them? it needs to be talked about, but it's also a matter of your interest, because those men are working, you know, if we're them... then whole industries economies, such as construction, will collapse. it is necessary to weigh everything, but in my opinion, the key thing for poland is to support ukraine. and everything must be subordinated to this , including our political decisions and what we do abroad, because this is the most important thing. why? it is clear, it is obvious. putin is a revisionist, he undermines all principles of international law. he... pursues a policy of aggression, but his goals, he does not clearly outline his goals, it is very vague, so we must do the same, respond, maybe yes, maybe not, if there is such a thing

need. the most important thing is the readiness of the army, and the capacity, communication, logistics and capacity, i agree with you and i would like to ask, for example, about the fate of the polish-lithuanian-ukrainian joint brigade, a few days ago i spoke with bohdan klich, the former minister of defense of poland, and he said that there is a good prospect for creating, for example, a division from this brigade, and perhaps even a military corps, polish-lithuanian-ukrainian, what would be the chances? as a political slogan, this is a good slogan, this polish-lithuanian-ukrainian brigade was created in a different situation, i remember the moment of its creation, i supported it, because it is really a matter of the future, although i did not know how russia would behave, but its benefit for the current situation is small, because what is the point of having a brigade? but for the future it would be useful? of course, it would be useful, but for the future

, logistics, armed and human support will always be useful for ukrainians. no, it is only about the climate, the situation may change in six months, but the most important thing is that there is something on paper, that is, we understand that there is a military bureaucracy, the bureaucracy of the ministry of defense, not only ukrainian, but also polish, and so on. here we have to think more broadly. about readiness. about the concept, about alliances, about alliances of various types, and readiness, this is also, no, readiness for an alliance, the so-called political will, yes, yes, yes, at the moment it is not such a difficult situation, ukrainians are coping, but the question for us, for me, what to do when ukraine stops giving advice, and i say, it is necessary to... consider various possibilities, probably you are considering such possibilities, we also have to consider them, ukraine is doing well at the moment, but we had a difficult period

when the united states did not give us weapons, blocked, yes, when we could not vote, and it went on and on, and we understand that it is also was a corridor of opportunity for putin, but the european union voted to provide 50 billion, but not 100 billion. well, well, but then you can say, why not 150 billion, the states voted for 60 billion? why do you want such money from poor europe? the states are richer, but at the same time , the usa is a force. it does not mean that who yes, you can vote for 100 billion, but you have to buy weapons for them, that is, make weapons. states have weapons, only the usa has such stockpiles of weapons, in our country we are forced to rebuild. to rebuild the arms industry, i am a member of the national defense commission, that is, i deal with the military, i know a little about the nuances, we must make huge

efforts to... return here to what we had before, for this we must think together, what then, now we must to think and now we have to discuss, to have a concept so that we can start implementing it, it is necessary know what we have to do, i am also in ukraine to talk about it. thank you very much, mr. marshalka, thank you very much for your openness and for this wonderful analysis, and of course for your position. thank you very much. and i would like to remind our viewers that bohdan borusewicz, a legendary polish politician, the head of the polish senate from 2005 to 2015, was currently working on the espresso tv channel, and now he works in the senate in the defense committee. the pain in the joints is so piercing, it does not allow to move. and at the pharmacy i bought yellow kremgit,

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savings. in a fresh issue. channel ukraine: exclusive interview with diplomat oleksandr khara. why does russia have the right to veto ukraine's entry into nato. resonant investigation: the road to nowhere. how to build a forest track can destroy a historical monument. the unique vitaly portnikov about the impact of the war on ukrainians and the values ​​that unite the nation. the diary of the legendary nationalist mykola kokhanivskyi. the country is always at the forefront . search at press outlets or pre-pay online. tingling, numbness. calm you down, the dolgiat antinevro complex helps to normalize the functioning of the nervous system. capsules dolgiit antinevro - help to your nervous system. there are discounts representing the only discounts on foam steve 15% in pharmacies, plantain, vam and saver. greetings , this is svoboda live on radio svoboda. we

have come to ... the snake itself, the following footage may shock you, news from the scene live, kamikaze drone attacks, political analysis, objective and meaningful, there is no political season, exclusive interviews, reports from the hottest points of the front, be free, frank and unbiased, you draw your own conclusions. vitaly portnikov, khrystyna yatskiv and invited experts give their assessment and forecast based on facts development of events. if you want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, watch the saturday politics club, every saturday on espresso.

verdict with serhiy rudenko from now on in a new two-hour format. even more analytics, even more important topics, even more top guests: foreign experts, inclusion from abroad, about ukraine, the world, the front, society, as well as feedback, you can express your opinion at any time of the day by phone survey, turn on and turn on. verdict with serhiy rudenko, from tuesday to friday from 20 to 22. and now in oleksandr morozov, a political scientist who is in prague, will work on the air of the tv channel. glad to see you, oleksandr. well, first of all i would like to ask you about the assessment of the so- called astana summit. we understand that this is a story not only about putin, it is not even just about xi jinping, it is a story in general about an attempt to form a new, so- called alternative order of the day.