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smart and caring people. espresso in the evening. every week, the saturday political club helps to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world. vitaly portnikov, khrystyna yatskiv and invited experts based on facts give their assessment and forecast of the development of events. if you want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, watch the saturday political club. every saturday at espresso. friends, we're back on the air as we talk about media literacy, infohygiene, and how important it is, you can chime in. our donations have been verified and we know for sure that this money will go to reconnaissance of the 100th brigade of the armed forces of ukraine. and they will be with the help of

drones that we want to buy, and for this we we need to collect 2.5 million, they will destroy you determine where and the russian positions, well, and then something will fly there, we now have one of the accounts at monobank, and this is actually the qr code of monobank, you see, there is 1,416, hryvnias and 531 hryvnias, a few hundred thousand hryvnias more, more than 300 are on the private side, please join, for today we have collected only 14, and we really want that money to be more, because the sooner we close this amount, the sooner these drones will already be on the front line, and sooner they will protect the lives of our soldiers, and soon there will be fewer muscovites. oksana moroz, meanwhile, a communicator, video blogger, lecturer and writer, as well as an author and presenter of radio and tv programs on infohygiene and the founder of the volunteer initiative how not to become a vegetable, appears on our air, mrs. oksano, congratulations. ms. oksana, the reason

to invite you to our studio was social networks, my facebook lately literally. not with any such or that photos or any pages, which strangely for some reason this same facebook is starting to offer me, about what is there or ukraine the best country, and i start looking at the posts, and they are just some kind of slag, because one post can be in russian, the other in ukrainian, or photos with artificial intelligence appear, either about two brothers, or about three brothers , and simply ukraine en masse. there they comment, they congratulate those brothers on their birthday, although no, in fact these brothers do not exist, and not only i have such an observation, but many of my journalist colleagues, it is the journalists who pay attention to this, but on facebook they use, recently one people’s deputy and

a former and political expert and all that, i won’t name him, dear person, he also rearranged these three brothers, and it is clear that that artificial intelligence, they write to him there, you are a smart person, why are you did you do? and here they are those three brothers, well, it can be seen that the brothers are really like that, you know, first of all, they are made to be a copycat, listen, but what is the problem with those three brothers, firstly, and secondly, is this propaganda, or what is it, or is it a dog? well, actually there is a lot here, let's keep it simple let's take artificial intelligence, which generates some beautiful videos, beautiful pictures, and which people, as a rule, perceive as something that is very strong, or conveys their emotions in a concentrated way, because precisely artificial intelligence can do this very well for... secure, well, that's it , or simply perceived as some kind of interesting picture, a kind of entertainment, why not post it, there is nothing so terrible, what dangers are hidden behind it, the first and very important point is that precisely the pictures that convey our emotions in a concentrated manner, they

appear when something is very scary there is massive shelling, children are killed, animals are killed, and so on, and with the help of artificial intelligence, images are generated that convey very ... painful, such that we are literally torn by images, and this is part of the information operation of the russians in order to to strengthen the actual information operation that they carried out, for example, for intimidation or for some other purpose, this is the first point, the second important point, that such pictures, they, which simply can be with three brothers, with a father and a son, and there is a very a long list of these pictures, they may be for the purpose of promoting certain pages, but the person himself does not understand this. or someone likes this picture, actually subscribes to this page, and then this page starts to push it into the feed according to the algorithms of social networks, accordingly, the content, which is already manipulative, which is, accordingly, there can also be fraudulent, not only that, it can be russian information operations, this

already causes some damage, and the list of damage can actually be continued, because de facto, now all fraudulent schemes, manipulative schemes, it doesn't matter who is at the heart of them, the new russia or any other manipulator, they simply started using artificial intelligence en masse, that is , in fact, since the middle of last year, it has already become integral part of all disinformation campaigns, here, but just now, after a year, it was no longer of such a massive enough nature that our feeds, they were literally filled with such pictures wave after wave, and unfortunately, people still do not understand the danger, that's why about this very often it needs to be repeated so that people somehow... it's clear that it shouldn't be spread, but look, i don't seem like a person who would buy this picture of artificial intelligence, moreover, as soon as i see somewhere where people post such pictures , i'm writing that it's artificial intelligence, please don't spread it, it's not true, uh, but

somehow these photos, these pages keep coming to me, i literally block them every time i see something like this . er , and it works like an algorithm of social networks, i don't click on such content anymore show or block this page but it still pre, how does it work? eh, that is, we see in ourselves what we are interested in and what our friends are interested in, this is the first very important component, the second very important component is the algorithms of social networks, which themselves decide what content should be shown to a person, taking into account the fact that that their task is to keep us inside the social network, for a short period of time as possible, and in particular, according to my observations, they can show content that, for example, popular in a certain region, not only among your friends, acquaintances, for example, in the region, or even in the language region, which, for example, now can explain the fact that in many recent months there is a

lot of soviet propaganda, russian propaganda, although, for example, i conducted an experiment even with such fairly empty accounts, which were never interested in anything in their lives. but they still get this type of content. this can be explained by the fact that facebook is trying, ah, in the same way to a certain percentage, this is my hypothesis, i emphasize, to show content that is... popular among a large group of consumers, in particular, it can unite us based on the principle of using the russian language, supposedly in the actual post-soviet space, to which many social networks unfortunately refer us, well and in this way actually giving us information that does not concern our interests at all and does not even concern the interests of our friends, in order to observe whether we will interact with it, if we liked it, if thanks to... this information, we lingered on the social network, even if we could delay to put a dislike,

for example, then the social network will show it to us further, so unfortunately there are a lot of changes now, if we are talking about facebook itself, in the algorithms, and well, the last ones literally for weeks, you can watch how they, for example, do not show any of their friends in some feeds, but only show recommendations of some strange pages, this happens when something changes. and it's reconfiguring, you know, give it a try, want to somehow relate it in general to critical thinking by propaganda, goebbels is credited with this quote, it is well known that give me control over the mass media, i will turn any, any nation into a herd of pigs, and reuters, by the way, did fact-checking, their fact-checking department, and they did not find any evidence that goebbels somewhere once... uttered this phrase, he was also attributed with this phrase that the more terrible the lie, the faster it will be believed,

it is actually such a phrase, it was found, but it is in hitler's minecamp, it is a little different it sounds like, well, but basically this idea is that what kebets said for sure, we know it from the words of his referent, is that he said that propaganda should always focus on the mass consciousness, which is impossible, propabanda does not work with the intelligentsia, with the people. intelligent or simple and sophisticated, or who have critical thinking, as they would say now, that is, propaganda appeals to emotions, it must be simple, 100 times repetitive, and it works, you must always focus on the most mediocre in this in this mass for which she works, and here we are now, having this situation in ukraine, our information policy sometimes, do you have this feeling? remind you of some kind of reflection of the information policy of our enemy, or do you also have this feeling? can we

defeat russia who has been working with propaganda for decades, if not longer, using the same methods as russia. well, actually, if you analyze our information policy there, then there are not so many, maybe mistakes, as much as not done, and this does not make it easier, and maybe even worse, because... russian propaganda, it starts from where there is a vacuum of information, it starts from where some information has not yet been said, and so on. take, for example, a story with misinformation about electricity itself, power outages, and so on. it would seem that russia has not invented anything at all, it is simply repeating what happened in the 22nd year in the information field, but due to the fact that they started first and they were the first to form this opinion, which i turn off... it's not just that the government is doing something there, that it's allegedly being sold for border and so on, and only then our voices,

they sounded as an excuse, then russia got a head start and it is very difficult to convince people in this regard. let's take the case of mobilization, it also seemed that russia has been engaged in disinformation for many years and it is clear what it will lead to in this vector, but due to the fact that we did not conduct an information campaign, due to the fact that the processes were not corrected and so further, russia gained a huge advantage. and in fact, this is one of its most likely successful information operations discrediting the mobilization in ukraine, that is why if we actually analyze, as you say, our side, there is a lot that has not been done and which, unfortunately, became such a good base for the russians to push away from it and conduct their information operations , uh, what advice for our viewers, those who are watching now and maybe have good intentions, are actually... are patriots, are pro-ukrainian people, but you don't know how yesterday there was a quote from one of these american

tv shows when such a senior doctor says, then they wrote about it on facebook, and now it also appeared on the internet, well, actually, and they actually get information from, for example, social networks, for the most part, for the most part, it is facebook, the younger ones are already there somewhere on instagram, what are the tips for them, if ... what do they come across on some strange pages ? my mother recently wrote to me secretly in the chat . they wrote to andrii that klitschko died, the mayor of kyiv, is that right? "the authorities are silent, but she has a son who is a journalist and can and can in this way i am an information wave that she got somewhere, you understand what to do, i am sure i will focus on two tips: the first is not to go and not to take information from anonymous sources, it is very easy to check when you go to the description of this or that channel or

page or anything, and you cannot find there the surname or the name of the company or groups of journalists or bloggers who carry. the responsibility is an anonymous source, if it is an anonymous source, it is created for disinformation, it is an axiom, unfortunately, and the second is very important, an important point, it is as soon as something emotionally affected us, even so emotionally that we want to go now and that to spread, already and quickly, it doesn't matter if it will be a positive emotion or a negative emotion, with a high probability, here we are being manipulated as well, and there is only a matter of research, it is the russians who are manipulating. fraudsters manipulate and so on, that's why it caused emotions, we went and checked the information, if it's news, we went to the list of white media, the mass information institute, by the way, espresso is also among this list, and if this information is there, then it means with great fate probability it is correct, because of course and the white media can be wrong, but the probability that they will be wrong is much and much

less than all the rest, if people at least follow these two rules, then their lives will be extremely... not calmer. ok, what about the ai ​​pictures ? you can't check them here, and artificial intelligence is gaining momentum, literally on monday there was a shelling of okhmadite, and i already saw how someone posted a picture generated by artificial intelligence, although the fact that reality, photos that are real, well , they are more are more affected and knocked down, and and they just tear the heart, we already have some kind of artificial intelligence here, how to explain to people that even i... some real event that is artificially generated and reinterpreted already by this thing, it cannot be, there is no, there is no place for it, and people must understand that it is used by russia for information operations, then it is a matter of some time until such effective tools are developed as to explain to people

why it is not necessary to spread artificial intelligence, because now we are in such a first stage when people perceive it as something new and a priori interesting... good and so on, so they don't listen too much to the fact that they are told not to spread it, because for them it is of some value, it's like there was no internet, now it appeared, that is, it's something like that new, and they 're spreading it, so i don't have a 100% recipe for how to convince people if they've already decided to spread, other than to tell them how russia uses it in its information operations, in particular, to incite emotions, that is, when it's one thing to see people there it is in living pictures, and our living war, unfortunately, it is concentrated with very different photos that break the heart, and it is another matter when artificial intelligence concentrates such hundreds of photos in one, and it tears us apart even more, and actually, well, on it's a pity, for someone this photo can be such a constant last emotional moment, when

a person becomes completely sick, so you just need to understand that these pictures do not appear just like that, but rather... some percentage of strong emotion, i will emphasize the second once again small, if the picture causes you a lot theirs does appear, but it is a very, very rule, which means that you are being manipulated here, and then there is the question of who exactly and for what purpose, and one more question, i don't know if you can tell me how to do something about it, when very a lot of people right now, especially lately, people who do some kind of meeting for the military, or i... who write truthful information about what russia is doing, complain that they're losing coverage, that facebook can block, that the x network , can block this information, could there be a trace of russia throwing in its money, trying to bribe, i don’t know, the owners, maybe somewhere there, putin talked to elon musk and said, let's do it so

that there is less information about the war and about those... ukrainians who are trying to hold some kind of meeting there , what, what should we do about it, in fact, there is nothing here no conspiracy theory, this is the basic work of algorithms, which actually distribute funny content and do not distribute sad content, which distribute content without links and do not distribute content with links, and this list can be continued, just gatherings, they fall under the category that is not funny, here, although if it is done accordingly in some humorous sense, then it will still spread. these meetings are always accompanied by links, this is actually the content of social networks, they keep people from going to other platforms, but this is actually enough for this content. spread less absolutely according to the basic rules of social networks, to this is added the fact that russian bots work on key meetings, which massively complain about this

content or throw in misinformation that it there is a fraudulent one and they complain about it, and this adds certain additional troubles in addition to the algorithm of social networks, and i will also ask myself, we have a couple of minutes left with such a question, which is the most difficult for me, and it seems to me for the whole country, when in our country they say about... on the conversations that it is time to talk, as with adults, society and so on, there are, there is a question whether it is possible, for example, to tell society the truth about the losses in the war, whether it is possible, well, in our country , president zelenskyy called the numbers twice, and twice there are reason to doubt that they are corresponded to the real numbers of losses, and you understand, people, part of the people, well, as there... wrote it off, it’s okay for them, but it’s time, but these are people who, as a rule, well, they are not mobilized there, or there is something else there , well , they have their own thoughts, but other people, those

who think, those on whom the war is actually held to a certain extent, more precisely, not the war, but the front, they heard it, and trust is lost, trust is lost to the authorities, to the army, to how they will dispose of your life. in the army, you understand, yes, that is , a difficult topic, but on the other hand, we understand that the mature society is ready to know everything, the immature may not be ready, well, you know, we will talk here again now for a very long time about the mistakes of the authorities, because there are enough of them , and i can analyze the communication plane, now we are at such a stage, when it comes to taking some separate problem there, whether in relation to an adult conversation there or in relation to some kind of... informational operation like the mobilization of something so complex, and for which you will not get involved, there is no longer a simple solution, well, that is, it is no longer possible to simply do something there start changing the ton of

voice, how do we talk about it, is it not possible to start talking about something or not to talk about something and that will solve the problem, in fact, it is already a very, very, very complex story, from which there is no single end of the thread, which you can pull and that's it is unraveling, here we need to say that we... generally need a system of strategic communications that will be built, that will work, that is, that will actually not just talk to people, as with adults, or simply convey some information, but where will we have , starting from the president and ending down through each of the stages all the way to the local levels, here are the speakers who will regularly communicate with people, who will regularly, which is very important, answer people's questions, not formally for the sake of ticking off the address, but to answer on. .. people's question, if this system works, we can just look at the united states, yes, they have a lot of problems, but their vertical and horizontal work with

people, where there are actually daily briefings, is not answered by one spokesman, another says, not the second spokesman answers, is biden speaking there or blinken or someone else, and the dialogue with society goes on and the number of questions to which there are no answers decreases, whether russia... can conduct information operations under such conditions, of course it can, but the probability that that they're going to be effective, that they're going to be so comprehensive, it's diminishing, we unfortunately, ah, we don't have that system right now, even though it worked in the first weeks and months after a full-scale invasion, why did that happen, the question is open, and i don't have one i don't have a definite answer to this question, but i know for sure that there is no such magical simple way to solve it now, thank you for this lesson in media literacy. oksana moroz, the founder of the volunteer initiative how not to become a vegetable, was with us, dear friends, we will continue, so please stay with espresso. there are discounts

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