to call the discussion, because this is a quarrel that broke out at a meeting of the nato council, where our closest partners talked about the fact that while washington and brussels are thinking about how to do all this, and ukrainians are dying on the front and in the rear, which means that the overwhelming most of those who are in nato, they understand the situation and the complexity, and at least they will do everything so that those on whom the decision depends, they will... make a decision about maximum assistance to ukraine, i am not talking about becoming next to ukraine to protect civilization and freedom. it was signed an extremely important agreement without exaggeration between poland and ukraine, it is about the sphere of security. we went at it for a long time, maybe too long, but i think it was to write her off as best we could. i say without irony, this is one of the most important ones. this interval

of security documents, and he has an extremely high perspective, when we talk about the next steps in the preparation of what is called the central european defense line of nato. yes, i think all these things will continue in parallel. if we speak about the importance of security cooperation with poland, in your opinion, what we will be able to achieve, and in your opinion, if we are talking about a certain delay. was there a certain cooling of communication between warsaw and kyiv during the next six months? well, first of all, this is a very important step, but from my point of view , it, like all other steps in this plan, requires legalization from the ukrainian and polish sides. documents that are signed as interdepartmental documents, as you understand very well, they depend on the political situation. here and laws, and their implementation depends on that.

but not to the same extent as intergovernmental documents, and this worries me the most, if it is clear that both sides are striving for cooperation, they understand the extreme necessity of the need for such cooperation, but formalize it not in an intergovernmental agreement, but in a document that does not require ratification, it is necessary to understand the price, the value of this document and its, shall we say, legal impact of its situation in one and the same country, that is , in fact, from the point of view of inheritance by political regimes that will be in one and the same country second country, it is quite labile, this is the first thing, the second thing that is important is that the thesis, which, by the way, you and i have been constantly developing for, i don't know how many years, that the bilateral relations of nato member countries are one the matter, the relations between ukraine... and nato

is a completely different matter, and one does not interfere with the other, and the 18 treaties and agreements that have been concluded are additional proof of this, and this direction can develop indefinitely, relatively speaking, petliura helped pilsudski to liberate and defend warsaw in 1921, and now poland can help ukraine to withstand ... russian aggression, that is, in this regard, let's say, i gave this example only as a certain historical parallel, which, by the way , happened more than once, although the opposite also happened more than once, but on history should be viewed only with the benefit it brings to us today, the second, third is very important, it is very important that in the central european region, and if we take the baltic countries, poland and... and let's say, romania, a certain

group of states is being created here, who are not only lobbyists of ukraine, who are firmly aware that they need nato as much as ukraine, because today, forgive me, but these states are closed from the aggressor by ukraine, and if you look, we will look together at the obligations that the united states had states and nato, in terms of strengthening the eastern... oval, they are being carried out, well, i will not understate it as much as possible, somewhere by about half, and in terms of the personnel stationed in these countries, and in terms of armaments, and armored vehicles and so on, that is, the completion of these forces is very slow, well, it must be understood that if we talk about the 30,000 that nato plans to deploy on the territory of these countries, well, for comparison , please look at what... forces

are used and operating on the russian-ukrainian front today and what is 3,000 and for what time it can be, therefore it is necessary for these countries, i draw it... thank god that they understand it in warsaw, they understand it in vilnius, they understand it in riga, they understand it in tallinn, well somehow in bucharest , in budapest they play their song there, in sofia you don't know what to think about, why to seize, then the president says one thing, then another, so it is obvious that being on the front line with the russian military, these countries are confused. it is wonderful that they finally need to interact with ukraine, because it is the only state on planet earth today, with an army in it, which is capable of resisting the russian aggressor, oh these words, these last sentences would be enough to answer

all these maneuvers, which are taking place in central europe, it is no coincidence that these countries are key lobbyists for ukraine's accession to nato, because they perfectly understand. what if you take the european continent, then sweden, finland, ukraine, these are the powers that they can count on today, the rest are either in a state of formation, or the beginning of formation, or something else. roman petrovich, i would like to ask you, and for what purpose putin announced his ultimatum, when in particular it is about seizing those territories that they retrospectively included in theirs. of the russian constitution, we understand that this is a certain demonstration, this is a certain indication of our readiness to go to further war, but with on the other hand, he could not do that, that is , orban was exiled, orban also flew around beijing, and not only beijing, i don’t even know which

offices he visited in addition, what information he passed on to whom, but putin immediately went ahead and parallel with still rolled out as his emissary. this ultimatum, unprecedented in general, applies to at least four of our regions, and did not even mention krimli. mr. antin, he is cutting off the possibility of retreat, and this is understandable, and why, because this is the concept of a clique, putin is a furor, there is a clique near him, he, ah, maybe or it may not be. he cuts off the paths for this clique to retreat. back, there are appropriate legal steps from his point of view, but these steps are worthless from the point of view of the norms of international law, and it’s the same as taking paint and smearing fences is dirty, that’s what these decisions mean, they

have absolutely no legal force no internal or external, moreover, one must understand that at the same time... to make such decisions and chair the un security council, it means, well, to put oneself under the guillotine, and it will be so, because it is conscious violation of the norms of international law, from here it is obvious that he is doing everything so that neither he nor those around him can afford to step back, even half a step, this is... what is happening, thus, this is additional evidence the fact that i am moving forward, and here it should not be read as something to be afraid of and hide from it, it should be taken as an argument that the aggressor is moving forward, and

proposals that some territories should be given away, they should disappear from the agenda altogether , because there is only one way to deal with someone who takes such steps: to fight with force and punish for crimes, other options, these were voiced these days, because this is it, you understand, it is as if a joint score, on the one hand , actions-decisions are taken alone, shooting at ahmadis, it is said that our territory there to lviv and so on, and on the other hand , on behalf of all the unclean, talks about negotiations, about the fact that there is another way to help ukraine, besides ukraine joining nato. when i read these sentences, the more i see who signed there, well, let's say this, i understand perfectly well, what talents the human world is full. roman petrovich, well

, but putin at the same time, well, this is a kind of delirious consciousness, you know, white-hot, that is, on the one hand, he is talking about some istanbul people, it is not known what was agreed upon. which were not just ratified, as far as i understand, they were not even signed, and there was no mention of the capture of additional territories, in his last ultimatum he very clearly listed those. the region that he wants to occupy, that is, how he is going to conduct this or that, i don't i know, the negotiating position with beijing itself, even within its allies, how is it going to reduce it all to some common denominator, tehran, beijing and moscow are sick of such a concept as the integrity of global security, its indivisibility, this is the thesis that was, if you will remember, this is nonsense, and the thesis that was for the people... even in soviet times, relatively speaking, from the english channel to vladivostok, the big ones rule, and they

divide, and the small ones are like ukraine, poland , there, they are not busy here, so we will want, where we are, where, where we are, so we will be there, in in the eyes of moscow, it means that at one time it was supposed to be berlin and moscow, everything else, they should run around on a chain, on a dart, on a short one, and that's it, this is the rule by the way... by the way, beijing also professes this right, i i think you have heard this nonsense, the indivisibility of global security, and it is very often proclaimed by xi jinping, there are ayatollahs, all these führer of moscow say it, here in this situation, what should be done, in this situation , it should be explained that ukraine adheres to the un charter, norms of international law, traditions that have developed in international law, because... this is when they say that the world order is based on rules, then these smart people say that our

ancestors lived by such rules, some of them were written out, and some of them were not written out, what do they say, well, it’s like in football, hit the leg, then you idiot, stop, because it hurts people, where are you driving, that is, there are unwritten rules in international law, so if you put these two systems next to each other like that, on the left, here are... silly phrases of the führer and the world order, which is based on rules, then what does it say about this world order, problems arose, sit down at the table and you are doomed to find a solution, you are doomed, the use of force is inadmissible, this is what the order of enslavement on the rules says, and this is the führer, this plushie, together with the chinese dictator, it decided that we are big, so we can... what we want, we want to the dnipro, we want to the western border and so on, that is

, this is what imperialism professes, the imperial philosophy, which invents all kinds of white birds, which somewhere ran sideways past the un charter or some international legal acts, this is, firstly, secondly, it must be borne in mind, i tell you how a person who has sat with them dozens, maybe hundreds of times at the negotiation table, and they interpret the norms of international law, everything that is necessary, starting from electoral legislation, ending with treaties on the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons, the way they consider it necessary, and not as it is written there, that is why they will look for it, as this nebinzya told at the meeting of the security council that it was the ukrainians who bombed ahmadite, well, imagine, here... here you go out and talk, people are sitting, respected, there are permanent members of the un security council, and

the representative office is international, and this puppet comes out and tells that these are ukrainians, which means that they bombed themselves, that they shot themselves in the bush and so on, that’s the philosophy, that’s why i generally take on such things, it seems to me, in in this regard, it is better to say what we should do than to explain, and what it does, this is a vile, wild creature, you understand, mr. antin, rabid dogs are shot, there is no other recipe and there cannot be, so the diagnosis is clear, the recipe is also the elimination of this the disease is understandable, why there is no action, well, because there is who writes these open letters. which are printed in the guardian there and so on, that it is necessary to negotiate, with whom to negotiate, how many times i

have explained to the americans, do not sit down with them at the table in principle, because everything you sign is an obligation for you, absolutely nothing for them means, this is what the situation is, so mr. antin, he was not going to, and he is not going to, the furar is not going to comply with the norms of international law, this is firstly, and secondly, i want us all to remember that everything he does, everything decisions that... are taken by that fool or whatever they call him there, they have absolutely no legal validity forces, and everyone in the world understands this, this is what you need to rely on, what you need to be guided by, and you need to strive for the fastest possible unification of forces and the implementation of the recipe in order to cure the disease of this ethnic group, this state and this fuhrer thank you very much, mr. roman, for this extremely important, essential conversation on the air of the tv channel, i want to remind our tv viewers

that now roman bezsmertny, an iconic ukrainian politician and diplomat, was working for them. vasyl zima's big broadcast, my name is vasyl winter, this is a big ether on the espresso tv channel. two hours of airtime, two hours of your time, i and my colleagues will talk about the most important thing, two hours to learn about the war, about the military, the frontline component, serhiy zgurets, and what the world is about. yuriy fizar is already with me, and it's time to talk about what happened outside of ukraine. yury, good evening. two hours to keep up with economic news. it's time to talk about money during the war. next to me, and news of sports, i invite yevhen pastukhov to the conversation, two hours in the company of favorite presenters, cultural news, alena chechchenina, our car viewer, is ready to tell, good evening, presenters who have become like a movrodnidenko to many already next to me, ready to talk about the weather for this weekend, as well as distinguished guests of the studio, mustafa dzhemilov, the leader of the crimean tatar people, we are in touch, mr. mustafa, i congratulate you, good

day, the events of the day in two hours, vasyl zima's big broadcast, a project for intelligent and caring people. espresso in the evening. the premium sponsor of the national team represents. united football stronger together. and now mark fagin will work on the air of the tv channel. famous video blogger, figure of the russian opposition in emigration, ex-deputy of the state duma. glory to ukraine, mark, glad to see you. glory to the hero, i congratulate all viewers. well, the kremlin, according to its custom, began to clog up the airwaves, so to speak, with a verbal diplomatic review, that is, it began to talk about what they are ready for, not ready for, what parameters there are of some kind of renewed istanbul, and so on and so forth. and after that, in fact, in parallel, when they served there with their orban

their interests, they hit okhmadit, the children's hospital in... kyiv and killed dozens of civilians, this is how they conduct business, but the key story is, well, why are they doing it all so bloody and so stupidly, what was the goal? look, if we talk specifically about the okhmads, then this strike, according to their ideas, should contribute to the fact that ukraine, together with its allies, will be forced to go to a cease-fire, possibly a truce and further negotiations, so we understand that this is distorted logic, but in my... vision, although different experts present different points of view, this is a way to give nightmares to the population of ukraine, because the strike was not only on okhmadit, there were also other objects. there was an attack in dnipro, people died, one professor died. but all this goes out of focus when it comes to children, about the children's hospital. this is a blow that was supposed to demonstrate to the western allies that there is no way out here, and that

we are so ready to kill children in hospitals, in homes for lonely old women. that's all. it was, oh, no, it was an anti-missile, oh, they didn't get there, they were aiming at a military object, now there is no doubt that the strike was aimed, because there are fragments of missiles, video footage, other means of recording, i think the americans generally see everything from satellites, they have it all in files, and certainly there is such an exchange with kyiv, so this action is purposeful , conscious, as she always was, in my opinion, and there, they say, we will lie something, say that... they themselves are against with a rocket or something else. i believe that there is only one explanation: they want to terrify the population, this is important, they feel and believe that they can influence public opinion in ukraine. in in this sense, to create the image of a helpless president zelensky of an eternal war of attrition, which should cause damage that the population can no longer bear, losses that it

cannot cope with. that is, genocidal practice, in simple words. many people simply reflect, they say, but he cannot turn around like this and come out in front of a scoundrel of an incredible scale, but maybe he has already done so, when he has already done so much, then with one crime more or less, for such a person as putin and for his entourage it doesn't matter anymore, he's already a war criminal, everyone of course, a usurper and dictator who is interested in nothing but killing. it was clear to many even before, we found these features in... why for one reason only, he leaves the kgb system, what do they learn there, they are like that, of course, not all of them, there are exceptions, but he is part of the system, its the night part, the part that is unlikely to change due to some life circumstances, and when he came to power in 2000, there were such conversations that trouble should be expected from him,

why, because he is from the kgb, how does this affect the process negotiations directly, see he acts like this: closer, further, hot, cold, that is, he organizes orbán's visit, no doubt, i believe that this was a commissioned mission, paid for, probably with the kremlin directly... when the prime minister of hungary actually initiates the trip himself. it's just that few people know that orbán himself said six months ago: "i want to be a mediator." now saudi arabia is going to hold the second summit in jeddah. there is a turkish platform with erdogan, who constantly offers himself, and there was practice. china talked about peace conference a peace forum was held in switzerland, unacceptable to russia, precisely because it is based on the traditional security system. agreement of international law. knowledge of sovereignty, the kremlin will not agree to this, therefore the second conference in switzerland with the participation of russia, in my opinion, is complete nonsense, but that is another

question, why orban, because orban is a representative of the kremlin himself, he is beneficial to moscow as an official, because we are exclusive, yes, but who is really exclusive, the one who has influence on the kremlin, who has at least a connection with the kremlin, it's china, it's orban, he's like the chairman of the council in the eu. now i have already seen that some politicians, some representatives of countries, are demanding that orbán be recalled from this position, i.e. deprived of this right, for these shuttle visits to kyiv, moscow and beijing, but apart from that, he is, as it were, from europe, a representative of the western world, let's say that he is an agent of the kremlin directly, and he is so profitable, he can voice the agenda, which will not be convincing if it is voiced by china, because china is a separate pole. america does not perceive china as a peacemaker level, and orban turns out to be just a private politician. and here we come to an extremely important and essential moment: the parameters

of what the kremlin offered to orbán, and if you carefully read all the revelations of the hungarian prime minister, we see a serious warning, we, we will not take it lightly, it is about two- three months that will be even worse than they are now. and to accompany this, the kremlin begins to hit hospitals, that is, as far as we understand, the kremlin demonstrates this not only to ukraine, it demonstrates this with a very specific western cabinet, but in the west there are also people who are aware of all the danger from the kremlin, and we see that two important decisions were made at the washington summit, one of them is about money, and the second is about the prospect, the inevitable prospect of ukraine joining nato, and immediately ... finally blew the roof off medvedev, yes, but if we talk about the parameters of what orban voiced in the context of this whole affair, that is, he voiced what

was put into his ears in the kremlin, everything is correct, yes, everything is correct, because yes, everything is correct, he must frighten, and this signal is directed at ukraine, that is clear, and ukraine has been living in a war for 2.5 years, that is, it is directed to the west, this is the message of the kremlin and is speaking, if you ... now do not put pressure on ukraine to she stuck to this cease-fire plan and the rest, then it will be worse: there will be hospitals, there will be mass deaths, the destruction of infrastructure will continue, which will happen in the winter, you understand, that is, then you should already put pressure on ukraine, do at least something so that she takes the first step , because it will be worse. of course, it sounds like orban more convincing, because he met putin, the others did not, and putin told him something like that... he said that we will, as they say, put everything to rest, and then the west, through its own reflection, because of its weakness, decides, we anyway , we cannot oppose anything significant, we can only give weapons

to ukraine, we cannot join the war ourselves, yes, this is a dead end, which makes it possible to start the negotiation process now, then at least the deaths will stop, at least the killings will stop, and putin's calculation will be extended to november , he still bets on trump, he... believes that trump at some point, by the way, this is not a fact, i'm not sure about this, will really embarrass europe because he is announcing anti-european plans, that europe, the security council is not funding itself enough, that it cannot be relied upon only the us will have to defend, a famous statement last year in the carolinas where he said absolutely no, when asked if he would defend europe if russia attacked it, trump vaguely articulates the question. of the plan to support ukraine, he says that he will not give weapons if she does not go to negotiations, and the negotiations must end in favor of ukraine, and if ukraine approves, then

only such a decision will be made. etc., they are contradictory, moreover, my point of view is that trump will not be allowed to stop supplies and aid to ukraine, they will not be allowed, because the opposition in congress and elsewhere will not allow him, as was the case during his first term in 2016-2020 , just take it and stop, so after all, the calculations on the part of putin are built on trump, and this period should create fear, they say, here comes trump, will be even worse, well, until november, at least we will start this peace process, and from this there are statements that by the end of 2024, as they say, negotiations will definitely begin, this was said in beijing and said in moscow. why, because the inauguration of trump on january 20, if trump wins the election, it will come from this construction so far that trump really has a chance to win the election in the united states, although the question

is open and can be the other way, yes. biden can go at all, there are various conversations about it, the sponsors of the democratic party are demanding that he left, there are different options, maybe newson, the governor of california at the convention, will be approved, or kamala harris, the vice president, it is not known, we will see, in any case, moscow really takes this into account in order to put pressure on western countries, european , in particular, and believes that this is a very favorable moment for her, because there are elections in france, president macron was distracted by... early elections to the national assembly, the result is what it is, and it contains an alarming, threatening signal, but so far let's see how the government will function in these conditions, because the first the left took the second place, the party of the revival of macron himself, in the third place the far right with marine le pen, but besides that, putin believes that in this matter it is necessary to hurry, it is necessary to create a canopy of pressure over ukraine, and from this comes this shuttle mission of orbán, why,

because orban about... all three points, except for the two remaining ones, he went to moscow, kyiv and beijing, but two more remained, brussels and washington, he will not be accepted in washington, he will not be tolerated in washington at all, for it is possible for trump, this mission can to continue, but only next year, after the inauguration on january 20, and regarding brussels, he has already expressed himself clearly, we did not authorize you, you drive with your own, we did not give you a mandate, but marks, but i would also like to ask you a little to work as a pathopsychologist, that is, to understand what they put, so to speak, in orban's pocket, that is , on the one hand, putin begins to chew his mantra about some papers signed by someone unknown in istanbul, he starts

talking again, and we about . in istanbul, come on let's go back to the istanbul visions and agreements and so on, and on the other hand, he releases medvedev, and medvedev very clearly summarizes everything that putin proposes, and we will still kill ukrainians, and we will kill later, even if we we will agree on something, and even if we do agree on something, whether something will change in ukraine, all the same, our goal is to kill ukrainians or collapse nato, that's it. i have already said many times that medvedev was used for these crazy statements. for the internal agenda first of all, they say, don't pay attention to all these negotiations, we are doing our own thing, look, he is after all the deputy chairman of the security council of the russian federation, former president, ex-prime minister, it is clear that it is fake, but for internal consumption he will agree, why because all the agencies inside russia constantly, if someone is watching, they all share everything that medvedev says, everywhere it diverges very widely,

for the russians, this is the order of the day. about the fact that we are their independence, something is there, that we are pretending to be some kind of negotiations, a peace process, do not interfere, we will finish them all the same, ukraine will be ours, the ukrainian nation will not be, this is a final, irreversible decision, in my opinion, they actually think so, everything is calculated for this, when i talk about the futility of negotiations in any format, which is currently being discussed from switzerland to orban's initiatives on assignment. kremlin, this is because the main thesis has not been removed, that we will not stop anyway, we will achieve the same thing, that we will pretend some kind of peace now, and after a certain number of months or years we will destroy it and follow the same scheme as with minsk agreements, that's why they release medvedeva. in the west, they no longer perceive him, for some time they did.