the candidate was again approved by the president of the european commission. russia is betting that europe and the west will go soft, and some in europe are playing along. two weeks ago , the prime minister of the eu country went to moscow. this so-called peace mission was nothing but a peacemaking mission. just two days later , putin's planes aimed their missiles. to the children's hospital and maternity ward in kyiv. this shot was not a mistake. it was a message. a terrible message from the kremlin to all of us. so our answer should be just as clear. far-right and far-left parties, which increased their representation in the european parliament, did not vote for the resolution and even expressed their support for orbán. they are in the minority, but despite this, the diplomatic track is gaining momentum, including negotiations.

president zelensky is saying more and more often, but only putin, according to many signs , is ready exclusively for the surrender of ukraine. therefore , the war is likely to continue, no matter what plans the participants of the peace summit, orbán, sidzin pint or donald trump propose. the question is, how long? still in a bbc interview this week formal secretary general of nato, jens stoldenberg, whose mandate expires in september, did not rule out that after more than 10 years, officials leaving their positions can afford to speak more openly, our task is to adequately perceive reality, no matter how gloomy it may be. good evening, saturday political club, direct.

ter and we traditionally at this hour, traditionally at this time, talk about the main events of ukraine and the world, what worries our citizens, is important for our ukrainian victory. today we will talk, of course, about the terrible the murder of iryna farion in lviv, we will talk about possible negotiations, about the situation in the united states of america. of course, let's talk in general. about the security issues of our country, about zelenskyi's visit to great britain, as well as about the actually first conversation between zelenskyi and trump in a long time. we will discuss all this in a slightly different format, today with vitaly portnikov for two hours, but via skype, via internet connection, and mr. vitaly should be in touch sometime soon. mr.

vitaly, i'm glad to see you, a little late today in a different format, but i am sure that we will discuss everything and bring all your thoughts to the audience without fail. i congratulate all the viewers, and i think that we can start our conversation with you today, because there are really a lot of events, unfortunately, and sad events, important events. mr. vitaly, you already said it. really about sad events, and unfortunately there are many such events, the murder of the linguist, politician, former deputy of the people, iryna farion, happened in lviv, we saw it all yesterday, and i think our viewers are following this terrible event, during yesterday evening, during today, in fact... and we see that ukraine

, to some extent, in the last month or two there is returning to, unfortunately, such a concept as, if not political murders, then the murders of iconic persons, iconic people, we we remember how mr. sadikov, a kazakh, a well-known politician, a well-known journalist, or rather, a well-known public figure, was killed. now we see that iryna forion was brutally murdered in lviv. what does all this indicate, mr. vitaly? we find ourselves in some new reality, we may expect new ones assassination attempts, what is the implication of all this? please? well, i think that you can talk about political murders, to be honest, and indeed, you mentioned the murder of aidos sadykov, i also remembered him yesterday as soon as i heard that... iryna

farion, from what reason by and large , all this happened exactly according to the same scenario, people are not different in the killing of doss. accuse people who arrived in kyiv through the polish border, left, by the way, through the moldovan border, but were employees, at least former of the kazakh special services, but they behaved exactly like the young man who killed iryna farion, that is, they watched their victims for a certain time, they came to... the houses where aidos sadikov and iryna farion lived, and they committed the murder in broad daylight, and it was practically the same style of murder, a shot to the temple, that of aidos, that of iryna farion, about you in a kind of sadikov,

unfortunately, there was little talk about you in the ukrainian information field, and you and i tried to somehow make up for this fact, so which i thought was the first such serious… a signal that in this way the effectiveness of ukrainian law enforcement agencies is also being tested to a large extent, how far the process of destabilization, intimidation of people can be continued, that people care about their safety and those whom they trust, who are important to them, what is important is precisely that , that demonstrative killing, you know very well that when... there is some moment of danger, and it is absolutely such an instinctive reaction, you are always told not to walk at night, oh, it is very dangerous to walk at night, so we even have a curfew after 12 at night, because it is considered to be a time

of danger, but both of these murders, of aidos and iryna, farion took place in broad daylight, demonstratively, in fact in front of... people, that is, people want just the right time to take away this feeling at least relative safety, among those ordinary people who are sure that if you walk in broad daylight, so to speak, nothing will happen to you, that there is danger at night, when some saboteurs, terrorists, some criminals appear there , who seek out their victims, is a stereotype, and here is this one they are trying to break the stereotype, now the question arises: why, we understand that every murder has its own purpose and that you cannot compare, say, a kazakh journalist and political activist with a ukrainian political activist and publicist, that these are actually different civilizational spaces, but people , which

achieve different goals, have this common denominator, this destabilization of the situation, of course, in the case of... was perceived as a person who was the bearer of radical views, of a humanitarian nature, never hid, took part in the activities of radical political organizations, and therefore there can be no indifferent reaction to her untimely death, both you who knew her and you who did not know her existed with her in different civilizations worlds, i don't know, do you know, let's say andrii zoryna ferio? well, if not directly, then in absentia, in absentia yes, that is, not in absentia, i mean, i admit that we used to communicate, we had conversations, personally no, on the internet yes, but i never, we have a huge number of mutual acquaintances, that is it's a lot of dozens of people, but i

will not speak a single word with her in my life, so you understand, we could appear on the air of the same television channels in turn. to comment on something, but i saw her like this live once in my life on the maidan in 2013-2014, i was just passing by, since we did not know each other, we did not greet each other, and that's how i remembered that she was standing there on the maidan with other representatives of the all-ukrainian association of freedom, and i knew these people personally, and was not familiar with her, so it is possible to live one's whole life next to a person who has such a real, i would say, public resonance and... not even being familiar with him, and working in this very plane in fact, this again says that we live in different civilizational worlds, that bearers of different political views in ukraine, despite the fact that it is not a very big country, and we are constantly in kyiv and lviv, we

may not cross paths with each other, because we have no need for dialogue, they are so parallel worlds , let's say, the world in which i live and the world in which iryna farion lives, these are... parallel worlds, but they collide with each other at some point, as you understand, because in any case it is the world of ukraine, and for me it was always very important . that we are all united in this world precisely by the desire for ukraine to exist, here i, let's say, do not share, i think, a huge number of views of iryna farion, as well as a huge number of views of the representatives of the all-ukrainian freedom association, and when i they asked why you stood with these people on the maidan in 2013-2014, when you yourself say that most of what they express is very far from you, i said because they unite us... a difficult thing, absolutely special in the conditions in which ukraine exists in general. this is our common

desire to have a ukrainian state. so, if there is a ukrainian state, we can fight in this ukrainian state so that our option for the development of this state wins. of course, i would like my option to win, not iryna ferion's option, let's say, but iryna ferion wants her view of ukrainian statehood to win. it's not mine but all this. the struggle can be political only if there is a ukrainian state at all, and if there is no ukrainian state, as the president of the russian federation, vladimir putin, and his compatriots, and a large number of our compatriots who do not understand at all why this state is dreaming about it is needed, then we have no chance, so our first task is to preserve ukrainian statehood in conditions when a huge number of people... people, tens of millions of people, believe that it should not exist, and i always reminded

when we discussed these issues, for example, how long government coalitions were being built in the republic of latvia, but when the independence of latvia was declared, it turned out that the russian-speaking population of this country, for the most part, is the russian ethnic population, however many representatives of other nationalities, such as ukrainians, belarusians who came to latvia in the period after its occupation by soviet troops, are also part of this community, they voted, as a rule, for one such large russian party, conditionally a russian party, whose task was to preserve the special relations between latvia and russia, not to let latvia out of latvian, russian arms, and then, in order to prevent such a party from coming to power, to give it the opportunity to promote russian peace in latvia, to give it the opportunity to continue. .. to leave the semi-colonial state in which latvia was during all the times of soviet,

russian, and imperial occupation, all latvian parties, from liberals to national radicals, united in a joint coalition, i remembered this from the beginning of the 90s years old, here i am came to his friends, who were representatives of liberal political currents in latvia, and they sat at the meeting... of the government together with the ministers together with the tevzemen briviboy party, fatherland and freedom, it was called, just like the all-ukrainian association of freedom, and it was such a radical national party, i would even say the party of the ethnic project, and they did not hide it, but what united them with these liberals, they wanted latvian statehood, and of course introduced a dilemma here, or you unite with that , what they called national... lok, or you lose the opportunity to build a civilized statehood,

which means you have to find compromises among yourselves, because latvia is one for all, and ukraine, we have one for all, in conditions where there is an option that the ukrainian state should become simply the number of regions annexed to russia, and this is what usually unites us zaryna farion, because she always wanted the ukrainian state to be, let her views on this ukrainian state... be radical enough, let her not, left no such doubts for herself in because her views should be expressed in the strongest possible form, perhaps offensive to many of those about whom she spoke, but one way or another, these are the real views of a person who believed that the ukrainian state could continue to exist on the political map world, no matter what threats to its future arise in the following stormy, difficult years for ukraine in the 20th century. the 30s of the 21st century, the years of trials, crises, deaths and tragedies, this is the era in which we began to live,

in which we will live for a very long time, so in this respect, i believe that we this is how we should consider this murder, and if we do analyze it, we come to the fact that in fact the only beneficiary of the farion murder is russia, yes, we, we actually observe not... well, we just talked about two murders, similar to a certain extent, but also not similar, so similar in certain approaches, but in addition to this we see other acts of destabilization. from the side of russia, we see now, and by the way, it is the security service of ukraine that has been proven, how russia actually hires our citizens, for example, to set fire to the cars of the armed forces of ukraine, that is, our defenders, this is how we see how effectively they work in social networks, destabilizing, throwing in a huge amount of information, we see how much

the number of fakes has multiplied, and what's more, we are watching how our... citizens are already beginning to involve the russians in acts of direct actions, criminal acts, i.e. can we, conditionally speaking, combine all this into one certain offensive, a hybrid offensive, perhaps by russia, actually within the framework of destabilizing the situation in ukraine, and one more question, should we expect... any next acts of terror from the russian federation in the near future? well, first of all, we talk a lot about the fact that there is a war on the front line, everything else is the rear, and the main thing is to win the war on the front line, that's absolutely right, because if you don't win the war on the front line, you can lose the state, because the enemy's troops can simply

occupy its territory, but there is another important point in the development of the situation, this is the rear, which has rotted. the army can fight valiantly on the front line, but if it fails to contain the situation in the country itself, economically, socially, demographically, then, in principle, all the efforts of the armed forces become completely useless, and the people who serve in these armed forces return to the desert of civilization, in which they will not know where to go, because the state , which they defend, can simply disappear before their eyes, and that is why when we speak, we hear all these famous... phrases that the main thing is the provision of armed victory as such, everything else is on the third plane, we reminders all the time, we can forget about it a completely opposite process, that you can hold the front line and not hold statehood, behind the armed forces of ukraine , a complete wasteland can begin, and this is what the russians are working on, and by the way, none, as you

understand, these are not my assumptions, yes was in history at all, i want to recall the first world war. the capitulation of germany, when germany capitulated, there was not a single foreign soldier on its territory, it is not even like what is happening now on the territory of ukraine, 20% of which is occupied by a foreign army, and german soldiers defended the interests of the german state on the territory of other countries, that is, they did not let the enemy into germany itself, and that during their military work, the state rotted from the inside and capitulated to the victors in whose territory the german army was. the same thing happened with russia. the russian empire did not lose the first world war. moreover, she was in the camp of the winners. she just needed to sustain some inner stability to get the results of this

victory in literally a few months. but the russian state is rotten. as a result and the february revolution of 1917 and especially, it is important to remember, the october coup of 1917, the organizers of which wanted to withdraw russia from the war, the russian federation turned out to be the soviet russian federation, not in the camp of the winners, but in fact in the camp of the defeated, from those with which it has waged war all these years, and is stuck in this defeat in effect. for life, for 100 years, because even the victory in the second world war did not make the soviet union a truly victorious state, it underwent demographic, social disaster, remained a dictatorship, it is difficult to call it a victory, if we compare with today's russia and today's germany, then the question will arise, who won in the second world war, after all, what kind of country is that, well, and i would like to remind you, that the warring

countries carefully worked on the degradation of the enemy, this is no joke. special services made special efforts to destabilize russia, knowing its weak points. the intelligence services of the entente countries made efforts to destabilize germany, knowingly her weak points. thus, what russia is doing from ukraine's point of view is the right approach, absolutely logical. if you fail to make a real effort on the front line to conquer the territory by force, you need, therefore, to ... this state, you know, just internally scrape, scrape life with it, and you resort to various means absolutely logical, correct means, if you want to destroy an enemy that... you don't want to see in the land you hope to take under your protectorate. the first is this bringing the population to a humanitarian catastrophe, the destruction of electricity, you and

i are still talking when there is no electricity in a large part of our territory, and i have no electricity, and we do not know how this situation will develop in the coming months and years, we do not we know when in principle, we not only do not know in which decade the war will end, we do not know when ukraine will be able to restore its own. energy infrastructure, which means its economy, a normal standard of living and so on, all this is in the past and it is not known when it will be in the future, and this is all russian work to ensure that the population generally understands that there is nothing for them to catch in this territory, they must flee, or they must look for such an authority that capitulates to the russian federation, and russia will already provide everyone, if not a normal life on this territory, then normal life in magadan. well, this is one way, the second way is destabilization of fears. murders, the creation of certain lines among the population, when you destroy this or that well-known high-profile person, that's just to

take into account when irina farion was killed, well, we we understand why, it was believed that ukrainians would quarrel among themselves precisely on this line, some will say: oh, she was a real eagle of the ukrainian language, and others will say about... she tarnished the russian language, and this once again says that russians , who are organizing plans for a special operation to destabilize ukraine, know us very poorly, because once again it is necessary to understand that we are united, regardless of political views, from liberal to ultra-radal and ultra-conservative, the idea of ​​ukrainian statehood, because we we understand that this is our common boat, they just do it. don't understand that no one will fight about the figure of iryna farion, everyone will be horrified and distraught

about her death, about her such a sneaky murder, that's all, but i really think that this destabilization campaign will continue in the future, by and large, these are also completely logical things, but we always asked why in... the winter period of 2023-22-23 the energy infrastructure was not destroyed as much as it was done now, and because the russians still hoped to break into the territories where they are currently destroying the infrastructure, they believed that they would very quickly cover these territories with their power, and they did not want to spend extra rubles to restore their own energy infrastructure, now they do not have no...understanding whether they will be able to control these areas at all, and thus they have no interest in maintaining the infrastructure in this area, that 's all, before they did not need political

assassinations, because they believed that they already will solve the situation, they will simply go in and kill according to the lists that have already been developed by the federal security service of the russian federation, now they understand that they will not go anywhere, and therefore it is necessary to destroy people artificially, so to speak, by the way, many always ... asked vladimir putin, what is denazification? this is it. the assassination of ira napoleon is one of the moments of the denazification of ukraine, the physical destruction of people who express alternative views to krem's. yes, everything is clear. absolutely i agree with you, because russia does not need ukrainian national values ​​and ukrainian politicians to exist. of ukrainian political forces, completely different, by the way, including with different views, but which profess one single goal, the preservation and prosperity

of the ukrainian state, on behalf of the espresso tv channel, we once again express our condolences to the relatives and friends of mrs. iryna, iryna farion, and of course , that we will remember her achievements, her contribution to... the creation of the ukrainian cultural, information, and educational space, i would like to talk to you, mr. vitaly, on one more topic, on the topic of security, on the topic of possible negotiations, and by the way, one of, one of these, one of these interesting statements of mr. zelensky, this week in fact, he said about the fact that by the end of the 200... 24th year it is possible to end the war, well, in particular, it was in one of his many interviews, he talked about the f-16, and about the end of the war, and about

possible negotiations. but actually it is really very interesting, interesting and resonant is this phrase of his, this speech of his about the fact that until the end this year, it is possible, conditionally speaking, to somehow end the war, and here the question arises, more precisely, if we clarify, the hot stage of the war, not to end the war, but to end the hot stage of the war, and of course it all fits into the scenario about... which very often , both foreign experts and our experts tell us that what is being actively discussed now are possible negotiations, possible initiatives by trump, orban, mr. vitaliy, what , in your opinion, mr. zelenskyy actually invests in understanding that, in understanding the end the hot stage of the war until the end of 2024, and whether

in general, is it real, or is it... are these real words, or are they empty words that will not have any real actions and a real plane under them. it seems to me that the main function of the president is to give people a certain hope, because we see that ukrainian society is constantly living in the illusion of a quick end to the war, and the authorities have supported this illusion practically since february 2022, and without explaining specifically what in this way, it is possible to achieve... not only a quick end to the war, but also an end to the war in general, but the president himself says clearly, he said it and commenting on the proposals of the former president of the united states, donald trump, that he is sure that ukraine cannot cede its territories, because this will not be the end of the war for it, but will be just a prelude to its new recovery as soon as possible, this is the first, but i would say that even this is not

the most important thing in the president's views on the end of the war. it seems to me that all the time we do not take into account what vladimir putin wants. and this is an important thing. we discuss among ourselves all the time, and these are children's conversations. the situation is as if we are deciding when to end the war. putin sets us a goal, such, i would say, conditions that we must recognize crimea, donetsk, luhansk, and zaporizhzhia regions as parts of the russian federation, we must recognize neutral status, carry out this demilitarization, de-nazification there, and if we do this, war will end, and since we are proud people, we do not want to do it, then the war continues, and such an illusion is created that we have some option to end the war, by the way, which we

broadcast in this way to the west, what in fact, if. .. we 're done, we'd like an unfair one the end of the war, then the war would end, and we want a fair end to the war, and donald trump can tell us: "listen, what is fair or unfair, you will soon not have any at all, you will not have a country, stop worrying about both justice and injustice , accept these conditions that are put forward to you and end the war, we will figure it out later, and trump's advisers say that if you end the war on these conditions, we will arm you to the point that they will be afraid to attack you, this is all fine talk, only this conversations between us in our camp, so to speak, because even donald trump, despite all the infantilism of his political position, is also in our camp, not in russian, and he may have the illusion that if he makes concessions, then war, hot stage, cold stage, any stage can be ended, and i keep reminding, and this is an important thing, what putin really wants, for me, just today

, just a few hours before my broadcast, this broadcast of ours with you , my colleague, a well-known western journalist, one of the you can say the grande of world journalism, and she tells me: i read your text, what does putin want, i agree with you 100%, she is the author of many books about russia, but it is very strange that nobody in the west understands this and it is impossible to explain, and i clearly say in this text, putin wants... the restoration of the russian empire, he needs the entire territory of ukraine, some crimea, donetsk, luhansk, kherson, zaporizhia regions, he is not interested at all, these are generally random territories, which succeeded simply capture, but he could capture not kherson and zaporizhzhia, conditionally speaking, kharkiv and mykolaiv, if the front would advance otherwise, and then he would insist on them, and kherson and zaporizhzhia would be ukraine for him, that is, it is complete.