somewhere there, i'm saying, more than 40% already agree to negotiate, well, this is exactly this figure, if i'm not mistaken, the zumkov center, this is just the latest data that we all saw, and everyone, this is the last that was in the survey, well if 44% now support the state of transition, but of course not on putin's terms, then what terms of negotiations are currently being discussed among the citizens, you know, i'm peeing... here i want to say, the citizens are not at all concerned with how we will win, they believe yes, and there is a meaning here, in a democrat in society authority is delegated to the government, we elect the government, it is already authorized to solve these issues, whether diplomatically, diplomatically or militarily, in any way, but this is already its business, and there is a reason for this, and when we sometimes, you know, say, people are irresponsible, and that's how they elected the current

government, they elected and believe that for a certain period there is someone to deal with the problems of achieving victory, but here i think this is the choice, that's why there are no people, i don't, everyone has their own, no, i can't to say that not everyone has their own opinion like this, but first of all this opinion disorganized, that is, there are very different ideas, or... the second opinion is ambivalent, that is , double, well, these are classics, but on the one hand , we want to return the borders, yes, and on the other hand, there are evasives, the majority does not condemn, well , really, not the overwhelming majority, but more of them such a fraction, a fraction larger than those who condemn, that is, this is where the duality of consciousness begins. well, this is a normal phenomenon,

considering the history from which we came, and everyone still has their own personal history to either support or condemn, this is this is a very difficult thing, the main thing, the main thing, yes, i, in general, you understand, a sociologist never condemns people, it can be condemned by people who deal with ethics there, a sociologist investigates, ascertains, ascertains and draws conclusions ot... ot a the moralists there are people who deal with ideology and politics, mr. yevgeny, but we mentioned with you about the government that ukrainians elect, well, if the elections to the verkhovna rada were still taking place now, who would they bet on ukrainians, perhaps the vast majority of deputies, they would be military men, well, yes, a very positive attitude towards the military, well , you understand, according to the constitution, we cannot elect the military... that is, those people who were

in the military, and they from the army go to politics, that is, military generals of action, who we cannot now take into service , and the walker, taking into account the incredible level of trust in the army at the moment, this is the only institution that has absolutely, well, the main thing here is that if there really was such a scheme, then don’t take advantage of it... don’t take advantage, well, let’s talk, politicians public military because we we know that we have singers , and tds and tps, so to speak, and then these people simply surrendered their mandate because they couldn't stand the political situation there, there is such a threat, i am like that, after all, that's the point , that you still need to understand that politics is a professional field of activity, and in order to engage in politics, you need to have some experience. and to have such skills and leadership, and

work in the parliament, and there is much more, this, and by the way, this is our big problem, we have a lot of amateurs, and that's what you said about actors, and the same thing can happen with the military, scotsman, i didn’t want that, well, if the parliamentary elections are like that, well, the parliamentary elections will be like that, they will be after the victory, they will still be, and it is clear that the military will be, listen , military figures will run for parliament, and the main thing is that they are really military moral authorities, and not just, for example, people who appeared on the air, somewhere just told something, and then politicians used them, well, it seems to me that what is important here is that it can be done from any field for a person to enter politics, the main thing is for him to demonstrate his ability, and why, what is a politician? a person who can clearly

articulate the goals of political activity, who can influence an audience, who can... communicate with masses of people, and those who will demonstrate this, from the same ex- military, i think they can be normal, legislators, and normal members of parliament, and normal leaders, managers and all, there is nothing wrong with this, the main thing is that they, so that it is not purely demonstrative, here is our political power, you see how much it took and everything, but they were heroes, well, yes. they were heroes there, but this does not mean that they will be capable enough here, and this must be demonstrated in political life, it is difficult to demonstrate this in the conditions of war, unfortunately. after the war, is a radical change of political forces in the parliament possible, is it possible to expect new projects? i think there will be

a radical change, that's for sure, you know that ukrainians have a very interesting attitude towards the authorities, they first give an advance, well, a big advance of trust. then gradually it gets worse the situation, and before the elections, the political force that was, well, had the power, it had the advance, and the advance, it is suffering very seriously, and the bet is already being placed on new projects, i am sure that there will be new projects, there will be new political forces, and there will be, i hope, a very serious struggle with... for a place in the political life of society, well , if we talk about that, about sociology directly, then for a long time, many years, decades, there was a difference in society between the east , the west, as much as the war has erased are these limits? no, yes, i would say so, she

is not a bitch in the end, they are a difference, and she erased the fundamental differences, that's the main thing, no more, how important it is. yes, this is a condition for the consolidation of society, you see, ukraine is very complex in many, many dimensions, starting with regional, ideological, confessional, cultural, linguistic, well, i say, and all this is due to the fact that we are experiencing this war, in many ways these differences are no longer of such fateful importance, and this primarily concerns regional differences. that is, they still remain in the same direction in which they were, but they are no longer unprincipled, that is, politically in this sense, we have the eu, nato, away from russia and so on, there is a certain consensus here, most of all, that is, i say , that

in every region there are those who have a different point of view, but in the majority of all regions they have one point of view, that is. the european direction of nato and no relations with the result is pleasant despite the war, this is a positive achievement, this is a positive that we suffered and suffered not only from a full-scale invasion, not only from since the beginning of the maidan, it has suffered since 1991, if i am not mistaken, actually no, from the 14th, to the 14th year in our country. nothing, putin was the most popular politician in our country, putin is more popular, i am talking about our presidents, he was more popular in latin america, these were the data, moreover, in contrast to nato , the majority of the population in all regions was, in all regions, until the 14th year people didn't want

nato, well, they were still the centers of the soviet union, yes, well, it's all us, who are we, and we are soviet, that is, the majority of the population, what are you now? the situation changes, and then the majority people in the soviet government were formed, and this, this is us, and the traditions, you will get somewhere from them, well, you mentioned that there really is a consensus between the east and the west now, we are a european state, we are moving towards nato and the european union, and with corruption is how, well, that's how you understand it, with corruption, it's the main problem for ukraine in general, and when we... what's the main problem, even now war and corruption, before there was corruption, let's say, and rising prices, but now there is war and corruption, all the same , corruption is not going anywhere, this is problem number one one, the investigation of the state bureau of investigations, but these are units of exposed stories, well, you

understand, in our country, unfortunately, the so-called, i would say so, post-soviet economic system in... corruption, unless it is not a system-forming place, has always occupied in general, in all post-soviet countries, well, with the exception, well, with the possible exception of the baltic countries, there is corruption. it is a system-forming element of the economy, and by the way, if it were to be removed immediately, the economy would not stop at any moment, because you understand that, it forms connections, and that's what the problem is, what the government's task, a very important one, is to gradually cut it off and sever these ties, well, you see some kind of corruption there, you know, like a kraków tumor. it is not just you who need to be cut there, but also all those ties that, as this profession

has become blood-bearing, well , the government is nervous, well, it is not possible, well, it is necessary to learn, or a new one will be chosen, or a new model, about which we you say, or they take a new one, if the government does not learn, and it is a really painful problem, the government says that it is really necessary to actively return ukrainians, not only men, protect the homeland, return ukrainians abroad. well, the lion's share of ukrainians from abroad do not return, we know real stories, small businesses are opened, people invest their savings specifically in foreign enterprises, some simply save for international aid, save for a rainy day and still remain there abroad, how to return, how to motivate, what to do, here at the academy we take this issue very seriously, we have a whole institute of demography. who is doing this, problems here is migration, here is the return of people, well, what

can i say, i can say frankly, you need to know the experience of our neighbors, i will tell you, you know, how many balkan countries returned, how many, well, after the war in the balkans ended, where serbia and everyone there after the collapse of 30%, 30. returned and that’s where this war is there, well, somewhere, yes, up to 10 years there at the most , but if this is the kind of war we have, then it is necessary, i think that it is not because they are unique serbs there bosnians are croats and because such a socio-economic situation is not easy economic, no, you don't think that people are so mercantile, but i'll tell you something else with children , children are at school, they're already used to it, they 've adapted, they've already learned the language. and that's all, it's already difficult for them to speak from that school, in our country, you see how it's all online, and everything and they don't

know how to tear these children out of these, well, mercantilism is present, because who pays real money there , the help that they do not receive here and those who were left without a home, i think that a lot of people would return to europe with material losses, just do not underestimate... the desire people to live in their country, there are, i generally believe that about 50% of citizens are people who are very bad at abroad, people are divided, i would say so conditionally, people are like that, plants are like that and people are like that, well yes, relatively speaking, animals that can move and find new places, and plants, if you grew up, they are all here, you know, i to... i studied migration problems well in chernobyl, and our institute

was a big project of working with those migrants , when we were immigrants, we were international big projects, that i like that, when we worked with the polishchuks, who were evicted from these 30-kilometer zones, and they were there near kyiv, they were given good plots there, they had houses and... and that's when they said there, how can i not live here, i they gave you such a house, it’s such a miracle, so how come tabusya, i say, look how black the earth is here, so why don’t they put me here, i can’t, that is, you can imagine, she’s scared, that’s all the psychology of a person who grew up in poland, where is the sand, just sand, here in the black earth, it would seem... we need such to rejoice, and you say, rejoice, here everything is ahead, here it is not necessary, but what kind of gardens everything

is ahead, and she is afraid that such a land is hers, and you should not be underestimated, i think that a very large number of people who for the first time they will go as soon as the war ends, they really care for the children terribly, they are going, a real story, i was a witness, i was riding in a train and heard the conversation of a young woman who was returning from abroad with small children and... "i can't, in everything has been destroyed in kherson region, i have no home, my husband is in the armed forces, i’m just going to my friends, and there i will decide something with two children, she wants..." a lot of people can't live without their homeland, i tell you, that 's why i honestly still hope for 50% return, and what about us, that our situation will be better, looking, as far as i think the war will continue and how difficult it will be in reconstruction, in social and economic policy, all this

increases or decreases this percentage of return, well, this is also every year, well, we monitor it, yes, the percentage of those who plan after decreases war to return, that's obvious, well, i wanted to add here, about involvement labor migrants from abroad for the reconstruction of ukraine, to what extent are we being intimidated or not intimidated by the research of experts regarding the fact that there will already be such a mixture, many will come to us from asian countries, they will work here, live on the land, well, what are the prospects. what about, well, i know the situation very well, i will say there in america, migration from asian countries, from this south asia, there are no problems, these are hardworking people, who are true, they are not conflicted, that is, if they leave from there, i will say, there is some cambodia, vietnam and so on and so on and so on,

then for us it will be big, and if there are any calculations from another place, you say, if from there... i think that we should focus on such migration, if not, it is mine, because on african migration, this is completely different, and europe has already convinced itself, well , it is forced, because like refugees, that is , refugees will not come to us, we have nothing to pay, we receive them, but work. you will go, because if a businessman needs labor, then they will go to work, you know, there really are in south asia, there are many problems with labor vote, and people will leave, here, too, these are real stories even before the war, many years ago, i come from dnipropetrovsk region, koreans rented land here and managed it well, the

same, koreans, i say, and koreans the same, yes, the same exactly, that there there. in general, work ethics is very developed and non-conflict as a principle. well, you tell really interesting stories, interesting observations, as a sociologist, but how difficult it is now to do these studies, measurements, because now there are many ukrainians abroad, men and women are fighting in the armed forces who, who do you rely on? what is the research audience? well, the most important thing for us was to decide what the national sample is, and we have arrived, we need to have this sample of the available population, that is , those who live in ukraine on its unoccupied territories, this is the available so-called population, and

there is more the real population is all citizens of ukraine who are abroad and even under occupation. we have different ones, but we make a sample on the available population, and here we have already learned to make a sample with a little more uncertainty than was earlier, but still such that, well, it can allow us to draw reasonable conclusions, in time, if it is not a secret, announce possible studies that may soon be. folks, what is the time, what, what initiatives is your institute engaged in, well, our institute does monitoring, we have such, it is an annual monitoring, we are completing this work, and i think that soon we will be able to make it public, that is, it is an annual survey, which has been going on since the beginning of independence

survey questions, and there are a lot of them, it's all about ukrainian society, no, it's the same in all spheres of life. politics, economy, morality, trust, further, daily life, free time, and so on and so on, there too, this is such a solid portrait of society, and we draw it already our institution necessarily, i can even tell you such interesting the thing is, really, very interesting results, well, here we are. the employees will soon be able to make it public, here, well, i remember that it is a very difficult situation with religiosity in ukraine. very complex and there will be interesting data on how it has changed compared to pre-war times, i'm sure there will be interesting data in all your parameters, which are included in

the research, because really now is the time of change, if you don't change, you have no future, i'm sure of this too, so ukraine in a few weeks of the 22nd has changed more than 30 years before, according to some indicators, important for... society, such as, well, i can say, well, first of all , language, language, definitely yes, then political orientations, geopolitical, first of all, of course, but also political in general, and even hopes for development, that is, the ukrainians of the 22nd year, the 21st year were still pessimistic about the prospects. and on the 22nd they were already looking optimistically, that is, they, and then in general a very interesting result: ukrainians assessed their state as a value and as, you understand, well,

it seemed, well, something is so passable, that you don’t need to think so much about it, in fact they appreciated what a wonderful country they lived in before they saw the russians, this is an amazing effect, and they, they thought that our country is not a little bad. yes, yes, it was always considered to be some kind of harem, yes so to speak, hohlyatka, here are the symbols, prapu, coat of arms, anthem, but they didn’t reveal it, and the whole world is looking at us, the whole world, and this is the 22nd year, the level of self-respect, you say that has changed, the level the self-respect of ukrainians towards themselves and their country, fundamentally, then and now and then from those positive ones... no, well, the truth is, we have recently had few pleasant and such victorious news, so recently there has been some decline, but that’s all one thing is not the same as

it was before the war, the menshevarka complex has been overcome, we have completely overcome the swordsmanship complex, that's why self-respect is the essence, it's very important, we had it, because here we are, well, what are we, no, no, that's not even the point, well, nothing. we don't do it, but it's not like that, kind of, not like the neighbor's, that's why putin, no, why does he succeed, but here we are, it was still there until the 14th year, i know, i know, this everything was felt in the society of many people, but still, on this optimistic note, i will thank you for visiting the studio, i will remind the audience that yevhen holovakha was a guest of the espresso tv channel, the director of the institute of sociology of the national academy of sciences of ukraine, professor, doctor of philosophy. science, stay with us and watch us! premium

sponsor of the national team presents: united by football, stronger together! good evening, saturday political club, live ether, and we traditionally at this hour, traditionally at this time , talk about the main events of ukraine and the world, what worries our citizens and what is important for our ukrainian victory. today we will talk, of course, about the terrible murder of iryna farion in lviv, we will talk about possible negotiations about... situation in the united states of america, of course, we will definitely talk about the security issues of our country, about zelenskyi's visit to great britain, as well as about

the actually first conversation between zelenskyi and trump in a long time. we will discuss all this in a slightly different format, today with vitaly portnikov for two hours, but via skype, via internet connection. and mr. vitaly should be in touch somewhere soon, mr. vitaly, i'm glad to see you, today in a slightly different format, but i'm sure that we'll discuss everything and we will definitely convey all your thoughts to the audience. greetings to all viewers, i think we can start our conversation with you today, because there are really events, unfortunately, and sad events. there are a lot of their events. mr. vitaly, you have already told about really sad events, and unfortunately there are many such events.

the murder of the linguist, politician, former mp, iryna farion, happened in lviv, we saw it all yesterday, and i think our viewers have been following this terrible event during yesterday evening, during today, but in fact we see that ukraine is to some extent the last... there , unfortunately, a month or two returns to such a concept as, if not political murders, then the murders of iconic persons, iconic people, we remember how mr. sadikov, a kazakh, well-known politician, was killed , a well-known journalist, more precisely, a well-known public figure, now we see that iryna forion was brutally murdered in lviv, what does this all indicate?

mr. vitaly, we find ourselves in some new reality, we should expect, perhaps, new assassination attempts, what is the implication of all this? please? well, i think it's just possible to talk about political murders, to be honest, and indeed, you mentioned the murder of aidos sadikov, i also remembered him yesterday as soon as i heard that iryna farion was killed, for what reason? by and large, all this happened. under the same scenario. people seem to be different. the murder of aidos sadikov is blamed on people who arrived in kyiv through the polish border, left, by the way, through the moldavskyi border, but were employees, at least former kazakhstani special services, but they behaved just like the young man who killed irina farion, that is, for a certain period of time they were following...

their victims, they came to the houses where aidos sadikov and iryna farion lived, and they committed a murder in broad daylight, and it was practically the same style of murder, a shot to the temple that aidosa, which iryna farion has. that's right, you, mr. sadikov, unfortunately, did not speak much in the ukrainian information field, and you and i tried to somehow make up for this fact, because i believed that this was the first such serious signal that in this way, by and large efficiency is also checked ukrainian law enforcement agencies, as far as possible to go further with the process of destabilization, intimidation of people, for people to worry about their safety and those whom they trust,

who are important to them. the important thing is that demonstration killing, you know very well that when there is a moment of danger, and it's absolutely such an instinctive reaction, you're always told, don't go out at night, oh, it's very dangerous to go out at night, so we even have a curfew after 12 a.m. because that's what it's supposed to be dangers, but both of these murders and aidos and irina ferion. took place in broad daylight, demonstratively, in fact in front of people, that is, people want precisely the opportunity to take away this feeling of at least relative safety, from those ordinary people who are sure that if they walk in broad daylight, so to speak, then with nothing will happen to you, that there is danger at night, when some saboteurs, terrorists, some criminals who look for

their victims appear there, this is a stereotype. and now they are trying to break this stereotype. now arises question, why? we understand that each murder has its own goal, and that you cannot compare, say, a kazakh journalist and political activist with a ukrainian political activist and publicist, that these are practically different civilizational spaces, but people who achieve different goals have this in common. the denominator is this destabilization of the situation. of course, in the case of iryna farion, it is also very important that she was perceived as a person who was the bearer of radical views of a humanitarian nature, never hid, participated in the activities of radical political organizations, and therefore there can be no indifferent reaction to her premature death.