he was born to me in the winter, when there was very, very heavy snow, he loves snow. angela nepochatova does not lose hope for her son's return, she believes that one day he will definitely see these canvases. from kropyvnytskyi for the espresso tv channel. friends, we continue to work live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. throughout our broadcast, we conduct today we ask you about this, do you think the third world war is inevitable, this question was not actually formed by the tv channel staff espresso, and the former head of the armed forces of ukraine, who spoke in london and spoke about the prospects of the russian war unfolding already in europe, and not only in europe, but also in the whole world. so we're doing a poll, do you agree or disagree? if you vote on youtube, everything is quite simple, yes, no, or write your own opinion. please

comment below this video if you are watching us on tv please take your smart phone or phone and vote 0800 211381 if you think world war 3 irreversible, and 0800 211 382, ​​if you think that the third world will not happen, all calls to these numbers are free, vote at the end of the program, we will sum up the results of this vote, i want to introduce our dear... guest, this is volodymyr ogrysko, politician, diplomat, minister of foreign affairs of the seventh year, 2007-2009, head of the russian research center, mr. volodymyr, i congratulate you, thank you for being here today, my warmest greetings, mr. sergey, thank you for the invitation, it is always a pleasure to be in your studios and communicate on current topics, if you allow me, i will immediately respond to your question, it is possible, i do not want to influence the opinion of our viewers at all, but it seems to me that in fact the war is already going on, moreover... it has been going on for a long time, and we just have to

finally understand , that it can take different forms, but it, it has been going on for years and years, because russia declared war on the west through putin's mouth back in 2007, conferences, absolutely, that's why it's simple, well, we're used to it, war is when the hot phase has already come together, when they are already shooting, when they are already killing and so on, in fact this war... has been going on since 2007, so we are simply witnessing different forms of this war, and it would be very important for our western partners to finally understand that these are not toys, that these are not theoretical conversations , and we need to get involved and defeat the enemy together with ukraine, then we will really understand where we are and what we need to do, this week one of your successors to the minister of foreign affairs, dmytro koleb , visited beijing, he had talks with the minister of foreign affairs of china, wang . and this

was the minister's first visit since 2012 of foreign affairs of ukraine, in 2013 we know that viktor yanukovych flew there on credit, it was just before the euromaidan, but we are trying to understand from the results of this visit, actually, what the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine was talking about there, and because the ministry of foreign affairs of ukraine submits one information to the ministry of foreign affairs of china a little differently, as dmytro kuleba himself says. after a visit to heaven, let's listen. i spoke about the importance of a just peace, not just any peace. and my chinese colleague himself added that fair and lasting. it is very it is important, because usually it is we who constantly say that the peace must be stable, that is , lasting and just. this is important, today we received a clear signal that china is not...

looking for some temporary solutions, temporary ceasefires, it is working on a permanent strategic solution to the problem of the war unleashed by russia against ukraine. dmytro kuleba says the right words, but we know china's position, it was announced on the first anniversary of the great war on february 24 , 2023, where it was more likely not a peace plan china, this was china's vision of the situation in ukraine. they said: territorial integrity, sovereignty of ukraine, but the two sides have to come to an agreement, they have to sit down at the negotiation table, well, it seems that in this story there is no aggressor and no victim, but two sides are in conflict, what could the new kuleba hear? well, of course, you should turn to mr. dmytro and ask him passionately, what was there after all, apart from the correct diplomatic formulas, you know, to me... it seems that the chinese continue

to play cat-and-mouse with us, and say that, which we would be pleased to hear, but they do things. who disagree with their words, well, look, yes, they seem to be correct in saying the minister for a just peace, well, yes, my lord, what are the problems, well, let's make sure that this just peace comes as quickly as possible, what is needed for this do, well, stop supplying russia with the equipment it uses in the war against ukraine, well, does one have to be an academic to come to such a banal... conclusion, yes, no, shouldn’t one stop sponsoring the north korean the regime through which moscow is now getting additional opportunities to enter russia and provide it with at least outdated, but still some kind of weaponry, you also need to be

an academician to understand that this should not be done and so on, that is, you understand, too many things, which do not coincide with what the official beijing says, well, yes, he has now ... said something, but a practical step is taking place, so, frankly, i don't really believe that we should, you know, take it for granted these are reassurances, because reassurances are reassurances, and practice is practice, well here we are, let’s say, there is a kind of double diplomacy now, because on the one hand we are not conducting any negotiations with belarus, which is putin's partner in the russian-ukrainian war. and we are not conducting any negotiations with kimchynin and we are not conducting any negotiations with other countries that are part of the so-called axis of evil, but we are conducting a conversation with the chinese, and this is constantly during these two years, 2.5 years of the great war, such a rather cautious attitude

of the ukrainian parties to ukrainian-chinese relations, although there was no ambassador there for a very long time, and this is also a question, and why we are separate. do we treat china as our strategic partner, although it is exactly the same strategic partner as china is for russia, as belarus is for russia? well, you see, all the same, the weight of belarus, north korea and china is immeasurable, that is, what is a father with his limited capabilities, what is, even more so, a north korean dictator who sits on the support of beijing. that is, they are political and economic dwarfs, after all, china is a monster, an economic monster, which is now gaining weight in military terms, so it is clear here, but is can the same ambassador in china

change something today, well, believe me, i think not, and if we look at the truth, who would we send there now or there or would we replace him with someone else. that if the chinese leadership has the ideological attitude that we help russia, then he would dance hopaka there every day and sing chinese songs, nothing would come of it, because it determines the position of the state, it is another matter that we really it is profitable to have economic relations with china, it takes everything that ukraine can give, and this is also an important point, but it’s all the same... it’s also necessary, well, i think, to set certain conditions, if we recognize that china is a single territory, including taiwan, well, please, then you should at least take some steps to demonstrate reciprocity, well

, diplomacy is primarily reciprocity, or then we need, as they say, some of our politicians, both current and past, so then they will review. this position, if china recognizes that territorial integrity is already within the framework of the russian constitution, i.e. with our illegally occupied territories, well then, what should we worry about taiwan, then, like the european union, many countries should have their representative offices there, have their trade missions there, work with them, taiwan is serious, taiwan is the first country in the world that produces, yes, that's why here you just have to, you see, here... other on the other hand, for example, slovakia and hungary, well, blocked oil, and immediately from there were topics for conversation, well, how come, you are spoiling us, you are spoiling us ours, our sweet life, well, so beautiful, let's think then so that you don't spoil

our unsweet life, then let's think that we will also go to some certain exchanges, but it can't be otherwise, until you come by the way, nobody cares about you. will not pay attention, especially since the chinese callus is still aimed at europe, and the same orban traveled to discuss the kiteization of europe. i understand, or am i wrong, that is, the chinese are looking for partners in europe , the countries through which they will enter the european market, that is, obviously it will be slovakia, obviously it will be hungary, well, and partly they are considering belarus, serbia, belarus, that is, countries that will allow them to make such an expansion of the chinese, you absolutely, mr. serhiy, and you see that now it was reported in the press that... orbán there asked chinese banks for a billion dollar loan,

which is the promotion of chinese interests through such things. china actually binds this little hungary to itself and everything, and then whoever is in the prime minister's chair there, if you have accumulated loans worth a billion, then you will have to pay them back. and this means that china goes this way and quite successfully sets up its own beacons, well, that's right. did in africa, many african countries will simply go bankrupt without china's financial assistance, that is the spread, first of economic, and then of political influence. another important topic, mr. vladimir, this week is the author's column of the former prime minister of great britain, boris johnson, in the daily mail, after meeting with trump, and johnson's vision, whether it perhaps a shared vision between johnson and trump. well, rather, probably johnson, which he presented to trump as a candidate for the presidency of the united

states of america, and there are a lot of contradictory points of what boris johnson writes about, well, let's say this, boris johnson is a great friend of ukraine, he has done a lot and we they are grateful to him, but there are points about these limits, well , not about borders, he spoke, but about the limits of the state on february 20, 24, 2022, bowing to putin regarding the russian language, and also that putin can return to the big eight, i.e. without russia is the big seven, seven plus russia, and here's how you assess, is this the game of boris johnson himself, or is it donald trump's game, johnson is just voicing it now, well, here i think of two points, mr. sergey, you know , in any negotiations you need to... show a potential partner the whip, but at the same time

show a carrot, which can encourage him to at least start talking, and then we'll see. for some reason, it seems to me that boris johnson, to whom it is attributed, we still do not fully know what he stopped capitulation in istanbulbul, then he should offer ukraine to... let's abandon what happened as of february 24, 2022, well, it's simply illogical from any point of view, especially the russian language, well, that is, it seems to me, or is it just such a throw-in, and the fact that, well, the ukrainians will not agree to this, but maybe the idea is that they say, let's try to drag russia into negotiations in this way, and then we'll see: what will come of it, all the more so that britain is now the most powerful partner, which

gives weapons, which actually helps to demilitarize crimea, the loss of crimea, we have already discussed with you several times, this is the beginning of bad processes for putin in the future, that is , such an option is possible, but you know, mr. serhiy, i think that now by the way, another column by pompeo, the ex -secretary of state, another plan, there is already... trump destroys putin to zero, but everything is already there by way of lendlease 500 billion, well, that is, another option, that is, you know, it can all be a game, that is, look, here is a powerful friend of ukraine, he says, well, look, we will do it yes, well, russia is silent for now, well, you are silent, well, then you have the second option, and now we will give you so that you are cold, this whip is pulling out, then there was, then there was, then there was a carrot, and... here is a whip come on, but you know, this is all bad, in fact, why

is it bad, because we are always waiting for some kind of plan from someone, well, the question is in the task, and we are so weak that we cannot formulate our plan, well, they will say everything yes, no, i am, i am the zelenskyi peace formula, well, three points passed, seven left, no, well, sir sergey, it's not even about that, it's a formula, it's an idea, it's a thesis, and it's true. that is, who will say something against the thesis about territorial integrity, yes, it is absolutely logical, but let's simply decipher it and write what it means. territorial integrity, well, it’s simple, again, like a 90° angle, that is, for this you need to receive appropriate military assistance, for this you need to receive appropriate financial assistance, for this you need to strengthen sanctions on russia, for this you need ukraine to start the production of our weapons in a powerful way and so on, for this we need to have

a suitable force, so to speak, a living force that can use all this. in order to win and say we have these factors, after a few days we get a completely different situation in crimea, and then in the south, and then in the east, and so on. remember, the republicans kept saying what are we spending 60 billion on, where is the plan, well, finally we can sit down to write our plan, which will not be presented simply as a plan of ukraine, and as a victory plan for. over russia, they are really beginning to understand that this is the greatest evil. look at the washington document of the nato summit, russia is the first enemy, china was at the previous one. so, they already understand that china is needed here, let it be, then we'll see, today is russia. so, let's unite and create from this a non -ukrainian plan for ukrainian victory,

a joint western-ukrainian plan, so to speak, for joint victory abroad. is it that the task is impossible and we don't have people who can write what is needed? well maybe president zelensky claims that he should have his personal plan, this is development, mr. sergiu, this is the development of his ideas, this is not a denial that in place of such a plan there will be some others, no, we simply take these theses that are key for us and we paint them and make it so that it is clear to everyone, both in ukraine and abroad, then the republicans will say: yes, let's correct this point here, let's change this here, let's, and then we it's a joint plan, you know, and then we, and then we tell everybody, guys, no, you're not ask us such questions, not ourselves such questions, this is our joint plan to defeat the enemy, you already mentioned mike pompeo, i will still quote to our tv viewers what he wrote for the wall street journal,

he said that in in case of victory in the presidential elections, trump will introduce forest for ukraine for 500 billion dollars and remove restrictions on weapons that pompeo writes. this is what a successful plan for ukraine might look like: introduce real sanctions against russia, strengthen american defense, revive the nato organization, create a program for of ukraine in the amount of 500 billion dollars. also, ukraine can be accepted into nato and the eu, according to pompeo, it is beneficial for america, because then europe will assume more obligations regarding the security of ukraine. and we have synchronicity. donald trump, the candidate for the presidency of the united states of america, who said on fox news that in a conversation with president zelensky, he told him about the need to end the war. let's hear what trump said. president zelensky called me and we had a good talk. i said i have to

end this war. in front of you is a military machine, they are constantly fighting, they defeated hitler. well, it seems to me that trump is not precise enough about who defeated hitler. of course, of course, it cannot be attributed only to stalin, there to the soviet union, after all, it was a collective victory, all the more so for russia, the better for russia, because you asked, he writes more faithfully about lendlease, and if not there was lendlease during the second world war, what the soviet union... love the same hitler, so that's it, here we go let's leave it to trump, he's an eccentric, he's a person who speaks so emotionally about something, maybe it's not quite accurate, but the thesis is correct, that is, he actually says that russia, this putin's russia , must be finished, because it is the biggest

a threat to everyone, and again, you and i once said that we do not study psychotype. politicians, trump is a businessman, he says the same thing, if we take ukraine into nato and the european union, then he asks that security will be more entrusted to the europeans, and we will pay less, here i am i say all the time, you just need to understand who you are dealing with, prepare for these negotiations very seriously and offer those arguments that will be clear to your partner and that will benefit him, do you remember somewhere in some other plan and... and this boris johnson, it was said that the americans could be replaced in europe by ukrainians, it was about 70 ukrainian soldiers, and can you imagine what that is, the amount for the american budget, yes, it’s really, it’s not dozens, it’s hundreds billions of dollars, if trump counts every penny,

says, i don't want to waste it on something we don't need, well yes, well, in the end, why not, why not help him, that we need to rearm all of europe, well , look, there's a queue for eh, no on f-16 in europe, on f-35. there are queues in sight, air defense systems, and at the same time there are, well, only zelenskyy tells us that we need 125, these, patriots, how many of them are needed in europe, but this is not 125, this, this, this, this is 500, probably 25, and each of them is worth 1 billion 200 million dollars, that is, if you look at it, what can it do? give the american economy, the economy, believe me, i think you don't even have to be trump to understand that this is beneficial, so this is what i'm getting at, we need, when we formulate

our goals, to be very clear and clear with whom and about what we say, we understand what to talk about with trump, you understand what to talk about with trump, and what to talk about with kamala harris, because in the current situation, well, it turns out that sometime after ... the biden-trump debate it was clear that trump has better opportunities to win in presidential campaign of 2024, here biden does not go to the polls and takes perhaps the most unexpected step, perhaps not only for the world, but for himself, because kamala harris, she is 19 years younger than donald trump, and this whole... the rhetoric prepared by trump for biden, that he, they say, almost has dementia, that he forgets there, that he can't lead the country there, it just simply falls apart, and obviously, well, that's what

sociology will probably show there in august what are the prospects of kamala garis, will it change essentially the politics of the united states of america, if kamala harris becomes the president of the united states, you know what i would talk to her about, well... i think about only one thing, that we need to put an end to the indecision of the democrats in security issues, because if she continues this line of obama, biden and so on, then we will again wait for six months for a decision on this or that supply of weapons and so on, but this pseudo-pacifist line of the democrats really needs to be finished. and if the matter turned to practical negotiations, then i would i think we need to convince her that such a line will not be a winning one for her, but

a losing one, and the fact that she has good chances now, well, as they say, only the lazy don't talk about this, because she is a woman, she is dark-skinned , she is a prosecutor, she has, so to speak, every chance to show that she... offers a just america, against the background of the fact that, well, trump is now caught in a stretch, really he, he is accused in at least four cases, and she is prosecutor, and she says who you will vote for, for me as a representative of law and justice and for the sake of the person against whom now... four cases are being conducted and it is not known how they will end, and there is also sexual harassment, that is, all these sexual things and the like, then you want the president

to be that , who will attack women and the like and so on, humiliate them and everything else, then you know, well, this is a matter of technology, i think there are many people who can tell it what to do, us, our it's a matter of not interfering in these processes and so on, but she now... really has good ones chances to turn the situation in your favor. at the very end of our program, mr. volodymyr, i would like to ask you about the statement of the minister of defense of poland, władysław kosyniak kamyś, that ukraine's accession to the eu depends on the resolution of historical issues, and he told polsat news about this, what he said on in my opinion, real politics should. to issue an ultimatum without solving the volyn issue, ukraine will not join the european union, what does this mean? that is, we have to apologize to them, and we have already

apologized. many times and on my knees there stood in front of these monuments to the victims of these historical events, and they should not apologize in front of us, well, this apology is historical, it will be long, just, you know, this is just evidence, in my opinion, of the fact that in the polish political eh, well, the problems of the past, they are really there, well, i would like to ask a simple question, why did the volyn tragedy happen and in what territory is the main thing, and why should ukraine apologize, well, it’s so simple that you need to look at, you know, the historical duration of all these processes , that happened on ukrainian lands, why they happened, to mention the role of russia, which actually formed the russian world in volyn at the beginning of the 20th century, and why, say, the same volyn peasants

met with bread. the aim of the bolsheviks and the like and how they prepared them for the fact that the poles are enemies and the like, there are a lot of problems, but it seems to me that during the times, by the way, of kuchma and yushchenko, well, we found ways to do things normally to communicate, and our presidents went there, as you say, stood on my knees, i saw it with my own eyes, everyone came here, did the same thing, and we gave society completely different signals that... there were tragedies, because of this no one can now say that they did not happen, we define we apologize and ask for forgiveness, this formula, which is really relevant today, although it was born many, many years ago, there is no other option, if we will hear such statements, then it will mean that we will simply approach again and again to the wall, behind which there is simply no way out, because... no one

will never prove that he was not the first, well yes, well, we also have neighbors, poles, hungarians, and everyone will say that you cannot go to the european union, you should apologize, you should give the hungarian language there more in transcarpathia, well, that is, we will always have claims from other neighbors, that is, the point is that we should take a clear position here, it seems to me that, well, now, in order to start negotiations, we had to make some verbal concessions to the hungarians, but i... i think that this is the moment that should determine the basis of our bilateral relations. thank you, mr. volodymyr, thank you for the conversation, friends, this was volodymyr ogryzko, diplomat, politician, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2007-9. let me remind you that throughout our broadcast we are conducting a survey, today we are asking you whether you think the third world war is inevitable. so, what are our preliminary survey results, because they are intermediate,

57%. yes 41% or 43%, no. we will have the same survey in the second part of our program, which will start in 15 minutes. ahead of you is a news release from the bbc, and after that we have there will be a journalist club with the participation of andrii yanitskyi and yanina sokolova, we will talk about the murder of farion, the suspect of the murder was taken into custody in the halytsky district court of lviv today. who can be a customer? of this matter, how the media worked in these conditions, what they did right, what they did wrong, well, let's talk, of course, about the peace formula, about the peace formulas that exist in the world, and of course about how the world is looking for some recipes for putin, someone wants to pacify, someone wants to end putin, how is the ukrainian state, in short, there are many topics for conversation, see you in 15 minutes, you've got a news release from our colleagues at the bbc ahead of you.

who is behind the murder of iryna farion, what were the motives of the attacker and why exactly... the novice became a victim. we analyze the versions and details of the tragedy in today's edition of the bbc. i am olga polamaryuk. a week after the murder of iryna farion, there are more questions than answers, but the investigation already has a suspect. he was detained the day before, and today in lviv the court chose a preventive measure. officially, his name was not mentioned, although he introduced himself in court. there was a meeting emotional